Marriage and sexuality

[Autodidact]

This is a fallacy. you can do what you want in your bedroom. (despite the fact that you just made it only about sex with that comment) I never said you aren't entitled to behave how you wish.

I am saying that we are not required to give privileges where they are not deserved.

I think the word you're looking for is "right." And we are entitled to that right, and we will get it. Just like the other groups that your church opposed in their fight for equal rights. Tell me, why is the LDS church always on the wrong side of the fight for freedom?

 

[Autodidact]

" The so-called “Yogyakarta Principles,” published by an international human rights group, call for governments to assure that all persons have the right to practice their religious beliefs regardless of sexual orientation or identity."

" This apparently proposes that governments require church practices and their doctrines to ignore gender differences. Any such effort to have governments invade religion to override religious doctrines or practices should be resisted by all believers."

So apparently it isn't about allowing gays to marry it's about not letting gays have the right to their religious freedoms. It's about keeping gays out of your church and not allowing them to have the same rights and privileges as you have.

Prop 8 was just a cover up for the actual of bigotry, intolerance and hatred of your church toward people who do not meet your expectations or definitions of "normal".

Well remember, black men didn't get the priesthood until 1978, and women still don't have it, so it's not really surprising, is it?

 

[methylatedghosts]

Would people who oppose gay marriage in the U.S. be happy with Civil Unions as it is here, in NZ?

Essentially it's taken the word "marriage" and replaced it with "Civil Union" so that now gay couples in a civil union have the same benefits, the same rights and the same obligations as marriage. So basically, it's marriage under a different name. These rights extend to immigration, next-of-kin status, social welfare, matrimonial property etc. The *only* part that is currently different is the ability to adopt as a gay couple in a civil union relationship, although people in a non-marital relationship may adopt as individuals.

I believe the last poll I read was that 40% of NZers support gay marriage, which should increase, considering that the older generation tend to be against it, and the younger generation tend to be for.

Also note: pre-op transexuals can get a civil union with a person of the same sex, and then get marriage post-op.


One more thing - if a group such as the Student Christian Movement in NZ can support civil unions, why not all Christians? Essay by Stuart Bradshaw - representative of SCM Aotearoa

 

[madhatter85]

What does religious freedom have to do with homosexual unions? I didn't know civil unions were religious?

You say its defined by the supreme court but you agree with it because it supports your religious beliefs. Its a shame you cannot see the injustice you support. The reason the supreme court says this is because its probably run by a bunch of intolerant christians who are idiotic enough to think that homosexuals will control the planet and cause the demise of the human race.

Again, you say fear is the motivation. Concern is more befitting.

 

[Autodidact]

Would people who oppose gay marriage in the U.S. be happy with Civil Unions as it is here, in NZ?

Essentially it's taken the word "marriage" and replaced it with "Civil Union" so that now gay couples in a civil union have the same benefits, the same rights and the same obligations as marriage. So basically, it's marriage under a different name. These rights extend to immigration, next-of-kin status, social welfare, matrimonial property etc. The *only* part that is currently different is the ability to adopt as a gay couple in a civil union relationship, although people in a non-marital relationship may adopt as individuals.

I believe the last poll I read was that 40% of NZers support gay marriage, which should increase, considering that the older generation tend to be against it, and the younger generation tend to be for.

Also note: pre-op transexuals can get a civil union with a person of the same sex, and then get marriage post-op.


One more thing - if a group such as the Student Christian Movement in NZ can support civil unions, why not all Christians? Essay by Stuart Bradshaw - representative of SCM Aotearoa

I could live with it. I think the adoption bar is wrong-headed, but other than that I don't think the terminology is nearly as important as the equality.

 

[Autodidact]

Again, you say fear is the motivation. Concern is more befitting.

When concern reaches the level of an obsession, we call it fear.

 

[methylatedghosts]

I could live with it. I think the adoption bar is wrong-headed, but other than that I don't think the terminology is nearly as important as the equality.

I believe the adoption factor could easily change soon - I like to think we're fairly progressive here

Check out that essay at some point too - I think you'll really like it, it's a bit of a read, but a good one

 

[Autodidact]

I believe the adoption factor could easily change soon - I like to think we're fairly progressive here

Check out that essay at some point too - I think you'll really like it, it's a bit of a read, but a good one

Yeah, plus you get to live in New Zealand. (I think this is not the first time I've been jealous of methylated.)

 

[methylatedghosts]

Yeah, plus you get to live in New Zealand. (I think this is not the first time I've been jealous of methylated.)

*giggle*

I try not to flaunt it, but heck - this place is just to awesome not to!!!

Like boobs.

 

[Autodidact]

Wait, New Zealand is like boobs?

 

[methylatedghosts]

Wait, New Zealand is like boobs?

Absolutely - we're not too big, not too small

We're pretty darn huggly

And boy, we flaunt our beauty when we can!

 

[Kerr]

Because there is no current distinction between them, there is a very big potential that this will do harm to religious freedom in our country.

No, it wouldn´t. It is secular. In my country you can simply skip the religious part of marriage is you wish. If you do have a secular marriage, then religion or religious freedom cannot be used as an excuse to restrict that kind of marriage to members of the opposite sex.

 

[blackout]

Originally Posted by madhatter85
Because there is no current distinction between them, there is a very big potential that this will do harm to religious freedom in our country.

The religious freedom to do what? Claim the word marriage as your own?

 

[blackout]

Is the exclusive claim to public domain words
protected in this country under freedom of religion?

 

[blackout]

Doctor's recommendation:

Say the word "marriage" over and over again for three minutes straight
in all different tones and speeds, and it will most likely unwravel at some point
and actually lose all meaning to you.

Do this three X daily.
(for as many days as it takes)

 

[shadze]

sigh. Marrige certainly isnt a religiuos belief. In its hypocrisy the state can marry hetereosexuals without religion. In earlier civilisations the state did marry homosexuals.
Homosexuality has always been a minority and in some ways this is not a bad thing.
with overpopulation in the world the Gay community do not add to children who waste of starvation or are brought up with neglectfull parents. Marriage and children are to different subjects and should never enter exactly what marriage is.Marriage is a parnership and committment between two people wether they have siblings or not. It should not be the sole propierty of Religions who are soo fractured they cannot decide exactly what truth it. Religion should sort itself out before it dictates to the public how they should live. Was it not the same christ who said first take the plank out of your own eyes before you take it out of your brothers. Thier are a lot of brother churches with splinters. Because we all remeber the middle ages and whar exactly a church run society was like it is great that politics is with the state and not the church.:bow:

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

The religious freedom to do what? Claim the word marriage as your own?

No because they would have to allow gays to have the same religious freedom that they have and then madhatter would potentially have to sit next to a homosexual person while in church, which is just all around wrong, in the eyes of Mr. Hatter that is.

 

[blackout]

No because they would have to allow gays to have the same religious freedom that they have and then madhatter would potentially have to sit next to a homosexual person while in church, which is just all around wrong, in the eyes of Mr. Hatter that is.

Why would equal marriage rights suddenly make Homosexuals go flocking to LDS temples?
Why would someone want to go where they are reviled as abnormal?
What does the price of gold have to do with your Wii?
(unless of course you are the queen)

 

[madhatter85]

The history of human marriage - Google Books
In this book the author, an anthropologist, shows that throughout the animal kingdom (including primitive humans), those that are monogamous in relationships, do so for the care of the young. some animals have different ways of caring for the young, however they always include a mother and father. Homosexual activity in animals is never monogamous as the breeding and care of offspring still depend on both sexes playing a role in the care of offspring. The only animals that exhibit monogamy are exclusively male-female for the production and care of offspring.

Since SSM pundits are so adamant that we should mimic the animal kingdom [since they always bring up, "But animals do it!"]. Marriages should only be sanctioned between male and female partners for the prospective production and care for offspring.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Why would equal marriage rights suddenly make Homosexuals go flocking to LDS temples?

can you really see that?

the LDS chruch only repealled the "curse of cain" stating all black people were damned, because cain was black.... 40 or so years ago.

Yet not one high up member of the church is black....

At that rate, by the year 2100 we may have gay marriage accepted in the LDS church...

:areyoucra