Marriage and sexuality

[Perfect Circle]

Yes. I do see what you're saying. And I agree with everything, except for your last sentence. And it's the problem I have with same-sex "marriage" (as opposed to same-sex "union.") For me, marriage has nothing to do with the State. For me, marriage is all about a God-thing. It's not a human right. It's a call from God. I'm not sure God calls homosexual couples to be "married." I'm not at all sure that God doesn't call homosexual couples to be "married," either! I'm really, really theologically split on that issue.

However, I'm astute enough to understand a couple of other things. First, not all folks ascribe to Deity as I do, so they wouldn't buy the whole "God-called" thing. Second, not all religious people carry the same theology about marriage that I do.
The trick is, we live in a country that has been hugely influenced by a lot of religious history. I believe that, like it or not, we are, in many, many ways, inseparable from the Church, because our culture is so woven with it. Therefore, whatever religious mores have found their way into our civil laws are most likely Christian ones.

My stand is an attempt to completely take the religion out of the issue. I understand that it's very, very difficult. I also call for the Church (as a whole) to come up with a theological stand on just what constitutes marriage. Maybe humanity has outgrown the need for "marriage." I don't know.

Once again, great post. I personally, would just as soon flip a switch and take out any clause in marriage law stipulating that the participants must be different sexes. But hey, I'm not a lawyer or religious either.

 

[ragordon168]

think of it this way a gay has as much choice in being gay as a black man has being black. he can go to massive lengths to change (Michael Jackson) but they can never escape what they truely are.

would you rather a gay man supressed his true nature, got married and starts a family. then he decides he cant hide his nature and leaves his family for another man?

so would you rather the woman and children go through that pain or not?

 

[Alceste]

see you keep framing marriage as a right however it is not a right. It is a privilege granted by the government to those eligible.

And I keep telling you I live in Canada, where we don't give a single speck of gnat crap what American mormons think marriage is.

I have never understood why people who want to deny access to various civil rights and humanitarian services to various groups of people think this can be made reasonable by calling them "privileges" instead of "rights". That's just retarded.

 

[Sunstone]

see you keep framing marriage as a right however it is not a right. It is a privilege granted by the government to those eligible.

Marriage predates governments.

 

[Alceste]

Because there is no current distinction between them, there is a very big potential that this will do harm to religious freedom in our country.

Au contraire - in fact the current situation, where your ideology is imposed by the state on people of all religions, inhibits the religious freedoms of liberal churches.

How does having the state impose your religious ideology on the Universal Unitarians promote religious freedom?

 

[Alceste]

marriage have been separate from why it is important to me and based in anthropological, genetic, sociological, and psychological research...

...from 1891.

 

[madhatter85]

...from 1891.

Aside from mocking the date i would like for you to try and prove it wrong.

Homosexual activity in animals is never monogamous as the breeding and care of offspring still depend on both sexes playing a role in the care of offspring. The only animals that exhibit monogamy are exclusively male-female for the production and care of offspring.

the statement that homosexuality is natural because animals do it does not apply to monogamous relationships, which is inherently what marriage is about.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Aside from mocking the date i would like for you to try and prove it wrong.

Homosexual activity in animals is never monogamous as the breeding and care of offspring still depend on both sexes playing a role in the care of offspring. The only animals that exhibit monogamy are exclusively male-female for the production and care of offspring.

the statement that homosexuality is natural because animals do it does not apply to monogamous relationships, which is inherently what marriage is about.

its 1891....

you seriously dont think anthropology, genetics and related have not changed? :sarcastic

 

[Mr Cheese]

the statement that homosexuality is natural because animals do it does not apply to monogamous relationships, which is inherently what marriage is about.

you flit between saying homosexuality is natural/genetic

to saying, nope its behavioural

contradicting yourself every time

are you really that stupid?:sarcastic

 

[Kerr]

Aside from mocking the date i would like for you to try and prove it wrong.

Homosexual activity in animals is never monogamous as the breeding and care of offspring still depend on both sexes playing a role in the care of offspring. The only animals that exhibit monogamy are exclusively male-female for the production and care of offspring.

the statement that homosexuality is natural because animals do it does not apply to monogamous relationships, which is inherently what marriage is about.

Actually Autodidact mentioned animals where homosexual relationships could be monogamous.

 

[madhatter85]

Actually Autodidact mentioned animals where homosexual relationships could be monogamous.

None of the animals who exhibit sexually exclusive behavior with their mate do not exclusively exhibit homosexual monogomay behavior.

 

[Kerr]

None of the animals who exhibit sexually exclusive behavior with their mate do not exclusively exhibit homosexual monogomay behavior.

And you haven´t actually proven that.

 

[Autodidact]

Aside from mocking the date i would like for you to try and prove it wrong.

Homosexual activity in animals is never monogamous as the breeding and care of offspring still depend on both sexes playing a role in the care of offspring. The only animals that exhibit monogamy are exclusively male-female for the production and care of offspring.

the statement that homosexuality is natural because animals do it does not apply to monogamous relationships, which is inherently what marriage is about.

[wiki] Homosexual behavior in animals refers to the documented evidence of homosexual, bisexual and transgender behavior in non-human animals. Such behaviors include sex, courtship, affection, pair bonding, and parenting.

penguin species where same-sex individuals mate for life and refuse to pair with females when given the chance.
^ a b "Gay Penguins Resist 'Aversion Therapy'". 365 Gay.com. February 11, 2005. http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/02/021105penguins.htm. Retrieved 2007-09-10.

An estimated one-quarter of all black swans pairings are homosexual and they steal nests, or form temporary threesomes with females to obtain eggs, driving away the female after she lays the eggs.[29] More of their cygnets survive to adulthood than those of different-sex pairs possibly due to their superior ability to defend large portions of land. The same reasoning has been applied to male flamingo pair raising chicks.

In early February 2004 the New York Times reported that a male pair of chinstrap penguins in the Central Park Zoo in New York City were partnered and even successfully hatched a female chick from an egg.[1] A children's book, titled And Tango Makes Three, was written about the real-life Roy and Silo and their chick, Tango. Tango, a female, later was found in a pairing with another female. Other penguins in New York have also been reported to be forming same-sex pairs.[33] [34]
Zoos in Japan and Germany have also documented homosexual male penguin couples.[21] The couples have been shown to build nests together and use a stone to replace an egg in the nest. Researchers at Rikkyo University in Tokyo found 20 homosexual pairs at 16 major aquariums and zoos in Japan. Bremerhaven Zoo in Germany attempted to encourage reproduction of the endangered species by importing female penguins from Sweden and separating the male couples, but this was unsuccessful. The zoo director stated the relationships were too strong between the homosexual couples.[35] German gay groups protested at this attempt to break up the male-male couples [36] even though the zoo's intention was explicitly to see whether the penguins were truly homosexual (rather than just exhibiting situational homosexuality or intensely bonding due to a lack of female penguins), and not to prevent them from being so.

I commend you to Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity, by Bruce Bagemihl.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Not to mention the things I have seen my dogs do to each other...and heck I have two males and two females. I have decided that if my males wish to marry I will allow it.

 

[Alceste]

Aside from mocking the date i would like for you to try and prove it wrong.

Prove WHAT wrong?

Homosexual activity in animals is never monogamous as the breeding and care of offspring still depend on both sexes playing a role in the care of offspring. The only animals that exhibit monogamy are exclusively male-female for the production and care of offspring.

Are you under the laughable misapprehension that humans exhibit monogamy? * snort*. Dude, you really need to get out more.

the statement that homosexuality is natural because animals do it does not apply to monogamous relationships, which is inherently what marriage is about.

It's natural because it occurs throughout nature. And once again, you don't get to decide for all of us what marriage is "about". What makes you qualified to issue a universal proclamation on what marriage means?

I decide what my marriage means. You decide what yours means. You don't get to tell me what my marriage means. And that is the foundation of religious freedom.

For the record, I don't think you really believe the entire meaning of your marriage can be summed up as the exclusive privilege of depositing your sperm in your wife's vagina, but I do find it amusing that you so passionately argue as if this is the case.

 

[Mr Cheese]

For the record, I don't think you really believe the entire meaning of your marriage can be summed up as the exclusive privilege of depositing your sperm in your wife's vagina

thats a behavioural issue

irrelivant

 

[Mr Cheese]

None of the animals who exhibit sexually exclusive behavior with their mate do not exclusively exhibit homosexual monogomay behavior.

is this sentence english?

and if you mean homosexual animals are sluts... you're rather wrong...

please prove this

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

Homosexual activity in animals is never monogamous as the breeding and care of offspring still depend on both sexes playing a role in the care of offspring. The only animals that exhibit monogamy are exclusively male-female for the production and care of offspring.

the statement that homosexuality is natural because animals do it does not apply to monogamous relationships, which is inherently what marriage is about.

"Male penguin couples have been documented to mate for life, build nests together, and to use a stone as a surrogate egg in nesting and brooding. In 2004, the Central Park Zoo in the United States replaced one male couple's stone with a fertilized egg, which the couple then raised as their own offspring.German and Japanese zoos have also reported homosexual behaviour among their penguins. This phenomenon has also been reported at Kelly Tarlton's Aquarium in Auckland, New Zealand. "Humans have created the myth that sexuality can be justified only by reproduction, which by definition limits it to hetero sex," says Michael Bronski, author of The Pleasure Principle: Culture, Backlash, and the Struggle for Gay Freedom. "But here is an animal society that uses homosexuality to improve its social life." "

"Zoologists and biologists now have solid evidence that monogamous pairs of animals are not always sexually exclusive. Many animals that form pairs to mate and raise offspring regularly engage in sexual activities with extra-pair partners."

"Sometimes these extra-pair sexual activities lead to offspring. Genetic tests frequently show that some of the offspring raised by a monogamous pair come from the female mating with an extra-pair male partner. These discoveries have led biologists to adopt new ways of talking about monogamy:"

The presence of same-sex sexual behaviour was not scientifically observed on a large scale until recent times. Homosexual behaviour does occur in the animal kingdom outside humans, especially in social species, particularly in marine birds and mammals, monkeys, and the great apes. Homosexual behaviour has been observed among 1,500 species, and in 500 of those it is well documented.

To turn the approach on its head: No species has been found in which homosexual behaviour has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea urchins and aphis. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is hermaphroditic, truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue.
—
​

Georgetown University professor Janet Mann has specifically theorised that homosexual behaviour, at least in dolphins, is an evolutionary advantage that minimizes intraspecies aggression, especially among males.

• Mounting of one female by another is common among cattle. (See also, Freemartin. Freemartins occur because of clearly causal hormonal factors at work during gestation.)
• Bonobos in zoos. After studying the primates for his book Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape, primatologist Frans de Waal, a professor of psychology at Emory University in Atlanta, says that such expressions of intimacy are consistent with the homosexual behaviour of what he terms "the erotic champions of the world." "Same-sex, opposite-sex — bonobos just love sex play," de Waal said in an interview. "They have so much sex, it gets boring."
• Homosexual behaviour in male sheep (found in 6-10% of rams) is associated with variations in cerebral mass distribution and chemical activity. A study reported in Endocrinology concluded that biological and physiological factors are in effect. These findings are similar to human findings reported by Simon LeVay.

Approximately eight percent of [male] rams exhibit sexual preferences [that is, even when given a choice] for male partners (male-oriented rams) in contrast to most rams, which prefer female partners (female-oriented rams). We identified a cell group within the medial preoptic area/anterior hypothalamus of age-matched adult sheep that was significantly larger in adult rams than in ewes...
​

• Male bighorn sheep are divisible into two kinds: the typical males among whom homosexual behaviour, including intercourse, is common and "effeminate sheep", or "behavioural transvestites", which are not known to engage in homosexual behaviour.

Animal sexual behaviour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I also believe there are currently homosexual humans who are in monogamous relationships and are in the process of caring for and rearing children. Also you do not need to be in a monogamous relationship to raise children there are plenty of single parents out there doing a fine job of raising their children.
Then again you choose to ignore the polyamorus who I am sure at least some of them are raising children.

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

None of the animals who exhibit sexually exclusive behavior with their mate do not exclusively exhibit homosexual monogomay behavior.

I suggest you read over this link very carefully.

Animal sexual behaviour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Mr Cheese]

I suggest you read over this link very carefully.

Animal sexual behaviour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I suggest you understand, no matter what you say

he is scared of penises not being inside vaginas...