Mary as "Mother of God", Accurate or Borderline Blasphemy?

[roman2819]

If Mary is Mother of God, there would be constant mention in the Scripture. As it turn out, she was totally human appointed to carry Jesus in her womb.

 

[BornAgain]

IN the beginning was the[definite article] Word, and theda Word was with God, and theda Word was God.
Joh1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Christ was made/became flesh, or God was made/became human, and dwelt among us. Christ as human became the mediator between God and human/us.

1Ti2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Until the time of the crucifixion, Christ was still in the human form.

Joh19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
Joh19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

The reason why Jesus said this: “Woman, behold thy son!” -He meant John the beloved- was after His death, His burial, and His resurrection, Mary is no longer His mother anymore, or His relationship to Mary, His brothers, and sisters, or to anyone will not carry on or continue anymore as the human/Jesus. So, Christ earthly ministry as human ended at the cross, because after the resurrection Christ went back to His deity as God, the Son of God.

Rom1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Now, after the resurrection Christ went back to His deity as God and was “declared to be the Son of God”, and since Mary is just a human or remains as human after Christ’s resurrection, Christ as God could no longer be the son of Mary anymore because she is just a human being.

Since Mary is not the mother of Jesus anymore after the resurrection, she can not be the mother, after the resurrection, of Jesus Christ as God.

If God’s mother is just a human being, then human is more powerful than God, or human created God, and not God created human.

Syllogism or deductive reasoning. Simple reasoning is always the best answer to a very complicated question. Complicated answers to a complicated questions can just complicate understandings. If one can not understand simple reasoning to a complicated question, then the problem is not about understanding anymore, but blindness of the truth.

Joh9:39 _ And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

2Th2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

If Mary is the mother of God, then prove it from the scriptures, otherwise its heresy, baseless, or without any foundation at all. They are nothing but human doctrines.

1Ti1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
1Ti1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

 

[Shiranui117]

Yes, Mary is the Mother of God. Jesus is God in the flesh. She is not the origin of His existence; He is eternally begotten without mother, and was born without father.

Since Jesus is fully God and fully man, and the two natures are not separate within Him, and there are not two persons but one Person of Jesus Christ, yes, it is accurate to call Mary the Mother of God, as decreed at the Council of Ephesus.

 

[BornAgain]

Wish you could back it up with scriptures or the word of God, but you can't because what you were saying is a man made illusion. It's very simple, prove it. Did you know that there are people living in the moon right now? The only thing is I can not prove it. Like you can not prove that Mary is the mother of God.

 

[BornAgain]

The reason Christ became man is, because God can not and will never die. John 1:14 "And the WORD became flesh and dwelt among us". Jesus Christ became human like us so He can die for our sins. Since God can not die, God became flesh like us. So, Christ in the flesh became son of Mary/flesh. Mary/flesh/human. Jesus became flesh/human. Christ/human died on the cross. Christ resurrected declared to be the Son of God, and not Mary anymore.

 

[Vouthon]

While Jesus received his humanity from his Mother Mary, yet not his divine nature, he is One Person with two natures (divine and human), a single person uniting the two and not two Persons. Therefore since Mary is the mother of Jesus, and since this God-Man was begotten with both natures in her womb, she is rightfully called Theotokos (Mother of God).

If we say that she is not Mother of God then are we to suggest that Jesus has a division in his personhood? He is a single person and Mary is the mother of that person and he was begotten in her womb, even though he does not derive his divinity from her, and therefore she is mother of the God-Man, of the Divine-Human Jesus.

The title of "Mother of God" is the only one which makes sense which is why the Church embraced it.

The Person of God the Son is begotten of God the Father "from all eternity" but is born "in time" of Mary. God the Eternal Son is Jesus. They are one and the same Person. Jesus is God the Son.

God the Son assumed a human nature in addition to His divinity when he became incarnate in Mary's womb. Therefore she is the mother in time of God the Son - a title she bears now forever since the Son will always have the glorified human nature he received in time from her.

Cyril of Alexandria wrote, "I am amazed that there are some who are entirely in doubt as to whether the holy Virgin should be called Theotokos or not. For if our Lord Jesus Christ is God, how is the holy Virgin who gave [Him] birth, not [Theotokos]?" (Epistle 1, to the monks of Egypt).

The significance of Theotokos (Mother of God) resides more in what it says about the Lord Jesus than any declaration about Mary herself, according to this Catholic doctrine, namely that he is the single Person of God the Son with an assumed (In time) human nature rather than two separate entities one human and one divine.

Every Marian dogma is declared to be de fide (of the faith) only because it is directly related to Christology.

 

[Shiranui117]

While Jesus received his humanity from his Mother Mary, yet not his divine nature, he is One Person with two natures (divine and human), a single person uniting the two and not two Persons. Therefore since Mary is the mother of Jesus, and since this God-Man was begotten with both natures in her womb, she is rightfully called Theotokos (Mother of God).

If we say that she is not Mother of God then are we to suggest that Jesus has a division in his personhood? He is a single person and Mary is the mother of that person and he was begotten in her womb, even though he does not derive his divinity from her, and therefore she is mother of the God-Man, of the Divine-Human Jesus.

The title of "Mother of God" is the only one which makes sense which is why the Church embraced it.

The Person of God the Son is begotten of God the Father "from all eternity" but is born "in time" of Mary. God the Eternal Son is Jesus. They are one and the same Person. Jesus is God the Son.

God the Son assumed a human nature in addition to His divinity when he became incarnate in Mary's womb. Therefore she is the mother in time of God the Son - a title she bears now forever since the Son will always have the glorified human nature he received in time from her.

Cyril of Alexandria wrote, "I am amazed that there are some who are entirely in doubt as to whether the holy Virgin should be called Theotokos or not. For if our Lord Jesus Christ is God, how is the holy Virgin who gave [Him] birth, not [Theotokos]?" (Epistle 1, to the monks of Egypt).

The significance of Theotokos (Mother of God) resides more in what it says about the Lord Jesus than any declaration about Mary herself, according to this Catholic doctrine, namely that he is the single Person of God the Son with an assumed (In time) human nature rather than two separate entities one human and one divine.

Every Marian dogma is declared to be de fide (of the faith) only because it is directly related to Christology.

Excellently stated, and I also like the quote from St. Cyril of Alexandria.

Jesus is God.
Mary is Jesus' mother.
Therefore, Mary is the Mother of God.

It's really simple logic.

 

[Shiranui117]

Wish you could back it up with scriptures or the word of God, but you can't because what you were saying is a man made illusion. It's very simple, prove it. Did you know that there are people living in the moon right now? The only thing is I can not prove it. Like you can not prove that Mary is the mother of God.

Yes I can.

You agree that Jesus is God, based off John 1.
You agree that Mary is Jesus' mother, based off the Infancy narratives in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke.
How can you not agree that Mary is therefore the Mother of God?

 

[Pegg]

Yes, Mary is the Mother of God. Jesus is God in the flesh. She is not the origin of His existence; He is eternally begotten without mother, and was born without father.

Since Jesus is fully God and fully man, and the two natures are not separate within Him, and there are not two persons but one Person of Jesus Christ, yes, it is accurate to call Mary the Mother of God, as decreed at the Council of Ephesus.

have you ever wondered why Mary was required to offer the same sacrifices as all other jews?
If she was sinless, why was she required to present a purification sacrifice after the birth of Jesus?
Luke 2:21-24 shows that Mary complied with the mosaic law “And when eight days were fulfilled for his circumcision, his name was called Jesus . . . And when the days of her purification were fulfilled according to the Law of Moses, they took him up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord—as it is written in the Law of the Lord, ‘Every male that opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord’—and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the Law of the Lord, ‘a pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons.’”

If she was sinless, what did she require purification from?

 

[rusra02]

Which do you think? Is calling Mary the Mother of God ok, or is it a no no?

Since the Bible doesn't call Mary that, it is both unscriptural and wrong to call her God's mother. Further, it glorifies a woman above God, and leads to idolatry of Mary, IMO.

 

[BornAgain]

THEOTOKOS, VERY NICE WORD. What else could be the meaning of theotokos. You just translated, in Greek, a woman giving birth to god. What is so amazing about that. You got your own ways of getting these invented words to fit into your heresies, but still you can’t prove anything from the scriptures, or the bible.

Did you know the meaning of “Spermologos”? A babbler! A babbler is a crow, or some other bird, picking up seeds. Then it seems to have been used of a man accustomed to hang about the streets, and markets, picking up scraps which fall from loads; hence a parasite, who lives at the expense of others, a hanger on.

Methaphorically it became used of a man who picks us scraps of information and retails them secondhand, a plagiarist, or of those who make a show, in unscientific style, of knowledge obtained from misunderstanding lectures.

You have these scraps of limited informations that you kept in a box, once gone or empty, you stop, unlike the unlimited source of truth from the bible that can never be exhausted. That is the reason why we have the bible, the source of the way, the life, and the truth about the eternal God.

You know why the Greeks called Paul a babbler/spermologos when he went to Athens?
The Greeks thought Paul was just a babbler of limited information about the resurrected Christ, but it turned out, them Greeks, the philosophers of the Epicureans, and the Stoics, were instead the babblers about the resurrected Christ.

Luk1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

 

[Shiranui117]

THEOTOKOS, VERY NICE WORD. What else could be the meaning of theotokos. You just translated, in Greek, a woman giving birth to god. What is so amazing about that. You got your own ways of getting these invented words to fit into your heresies, but still you can’t prove anything from the scriptures, or the bible.

And you apparently can't do anything to try and discredit us aside from throwing out ad hominem after ad hominem at us.

Tell me, how is it heretical to call Mary the Mother of God? Let's try and see what you don't understand or disagree with, shall we? I'd like to have a civil conversation with you, not a shouting match.

Which would you rather have, one or both of us shouting at the other angrily, causing strife and division between us, and giving a poor example of what it means to be a Christian to those who haven't been saved? Or would you rather have a situation where both of us prayerfully and charitably discuss this issue, with Christ in the midst of two or more believers, as we both strive to uncover the truth of the matter together as brethren in Christ?

Did you know the meaning of “Spermologos”? A babbler! A babbler is a crow, or some other bird, picking up seeds. Then it seems to have been used of a man accustomed to hang about the streets, and markets, picking up scraps which fall from loads; hence a parasite, who lives at the expense of others, a hanger on.

Methaphorically it became used of a man who picks us scraps of information and retails them secondhand, a plagiarist, or of those who make a show, in unscientific style, of knowledge obtained from misunderstanding lectures.

You know why the Greeks called Paul a babbler/spermologos when he went to Athens?
The Greeks thought Paul was just a babbler of limited information about the resurrected Christ, but it turned out, them Greeks, the philosophers of the Epicureans, and the Stoics, were instead the babblers about the resurrected Christ.

And what does this have to do with anything?

You have these scraps of limited informations that you kept in a box, once gone or empty, you stop, unlike the unlimited source of truth from the bible that can never be exhausted. That is the reason why we have the bible, the source of the way, the life, and the truth about the eternal God.

The Bible is not the source of the Way, the Truth and the Life. It's Jesus Who is the source of the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Luk1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Let me ask you a question: Do you believe that Jesus Christ is God the Son?

 

[Shiranui117]

have you ever wondered why Mary was required to offer the same sacrifices as all other jews?
If she was sinless, why was she required to present a purification sacrifice after the birth of Jesus?
Luke 2:21-24 shows that Mary complied with the mosaic law “And when eight days were fulfilled for his circumcision, his name was called Jesus . . . And when the days of her purification were fulfilled according to the Law of Moses, they took him up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord—as it is written in the Law of the Lord, ‘Every male that opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord’—and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the Law of the Lord, ‘a pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons.’”

If she was sinless, what did she require purification from?

She was ritually impure from having given birth. She didn't necessarily sin, but because she had given birth, she was unclean.

Leviticus 12:1-4 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘If a woman has conceived, and borne a male child, then she shall be unclean seven days; as in the days of her customary impurity she shall be unclean. 3 And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. 4 She shall then continue in the blood of her purification thirty-three days. She shall not touch any hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary until the days of her purification are fulfilled.

 

[Shiranui117]

Since the Bible doesn't call Mary that, it is both unscriptural and wrong to call her God's mother. Further, it glorifies a woman above God, and leads to idolatry of Mary, IMO.

Actually, calling Mary "Theotokos" is rather more of a statement about Jesus than about Mary.

A bit of historical context:

In the early/mid 400's, there was a certain heresiarch, Nestorius of Constantinople. He claimed that there were essentially two persons of the Christ: You had the mere human Jesus, and then you had the divine Logos indwelling him. Nestorius said that Mary was the mother of Jesus, or the mother of Christ, hence the term Christotokos (mother of Christ).

But separating Christ into two persons, one divine and one human, creates an issue: How could God have saved us, if Jesus was not both fully divine and fully human? If the divine Logos was separate from the human Jesus, then man is still separated from God. If Jesus was not God incarnate, then God the Son did not take on our human nature and share in the fullness of our human experience, redeeming our humanity and reconcile it to His Divinity. If He didn't do that, then His death on the Cross was meaningless, He didn't destroy death by His death, and His death did not save us (the idea of Jesus being a scapegoat to take the Father's wrath and punishment did not yet exist). And His Resurrection also doesn't do anything for us either; for if Jesus did not free us from death by bursting open the gates of Hades (because death and corruption cannot contain God), then we are still under the rule of sin and death. If God the Son did not share in our earthly life and death, then we cannot share in His resurrection and eternal life.

So, if we go with Nestorianism, then we are not saved, and we are still held captive by our sins. So we cannot accept a separation of the Christ into two separate persons, one Divine and one human. We must therefore accept, as the Scriptures teach, that God the Son Jesus Christ is one Person in/of two natures: one fully divine, and one fully human. His humanity is not separate from His Divinity.

Now, a few implications of this idea: God the Son came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Virgin Mary. He did not stop being God at the incarnation, but was still fully God--but now fully human as well. If Jesus never stopped being God, then Mary had God the Son in her womb, and gave birth to God the Son, Who was now incarnate.

If we say that Mary gave birth to God the Son, and if Mary is His earthly mother, then it's only logical to conclude that Mary is the Mother of God (Theotokos).

So, calling Mary "Theotokos" was a way to defend against the Nestorian heresy, and assert and defend the oneness of our Lord Jesus Christ, as well as His two natures (or, if you prefer Oriental Orthodox Christology, His dual nature ), human and divine. The title wasn't given to her in order to exalt her to above God--Lord have mercy, God forbid no!--but rather to defend the truth about Who Jesus Christ is. Calling Mary the Mother of God by no means leads to idolatry of her.

 

[Shiranui117]

This is what I meant when I wrote about "spermologos". You don't understand what you were saying. You don't base your philosophy on the word of God. You just pick up things on the corner and make a theory about it with your limited understanding about the word of God.

How so? What have I said in this topic that has contradicted Scripture? Show me what has contradicted Scripture. Help me see where I have gone astray, if I have done so. Have mercy on me as a brother in Christ, and help me understand.

Read Romans chapters 3,4, and 5 and you will see that all humans -including Mary, and all the saints you bend your knees to, or should I say worshiped- were born sinners.

Rom3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

But of course we're all sinners! No Saint would ever say that they are sinless, but would readily admit all their faults and sins--if they could be counted. We do not worship anyone or anything but God, and God alone do we worship.

Tell me, if I bow to my martial arts instructor at the start and end of class, when I greet him, and when I thank him for having corrected my technique, am I worshipping him? When I kiss my grandmother when I greet her, am I worshipping her?

Haven't you noticed that all I was doing is disproving your heresy with the word of God? While your answers were nothing but heresies base on your opinion or doctrines you inherited. That is why Paul warned Timothy about “fables and endless genealogies.“ Anything not base on the bible are heretics.

What have I said that is a heresy? How has what I have said been a heresy? I don't understand what your views on the subject are. Explain to me the situation as you see it. Point out to me what I have said that has been a heresy, how and why it is a heresy, and how it goes against Scripture. Make yourself clear, that I may understand.

Please do not call yourself a Christian, I get offended.

Why do I offend you? I don't want to offend you or embitter you--God forbid that there should be emnity between Christians! Help me to understand, brother.

Christians do not worship woods, stones, and dead people. Christians are not pagans.

I would agree.

You know what is the Greek word for "superstitious"?

While Paul was walking in Athens -BYW you could read in Acts chapter 17 in the bible- “he saw the city wholly given to idolatry” Acts 17:16, and in verse 22 this is what Paul said:
Act17:22 _ “Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars’ hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.”

SUPERSTITIOUS IN Greek IS “DEISIDAIMON” meaning: reverent to the deity [deido, to fear; daimon, a demon, or pagan god.]

Every time you bend your knees to these idols, you are worshiping satan. DEISIDAIMON, remember this word everytime you worship them.

We do not have idols, nor do we worship idols, so I can assure you that this is not a problem.

 

[BornAgain]

Rom1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

The word "declared" in Greek is "horizo", or in English "horizon". If you read carefully from verse 3 of Romans chapter 1, "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;"

Mary came from the line of David, therefore Mary is human like you and me.

We read verse 4 "And declared to be the Son of God with power", "by the resurrection from the dead:".

The word "horizo", to mark off by boundaries, signifies to determines, usually of time, Christ is said to have been marked out as the Son of God, by the fact of His resurrection.

What do you see on the horizon? A line separating the earth and the sky. When Christ was resurrected, he was separated from His human form -as the son of Mary, as a brother to His brothers and sisters, or in other words, at the resurrection Christ ended His human genealogy- and came back to His deity as the immortal, eternal living God, the Son of the immortal, living most high God.

During Christ's earthly ministry, as a human, He is the son of Mary, but still at the same time, as God, the Son of the most high God. On the human/flesh side Mary was His mother, but on the Spiritual side, the Son of God.

This Romans chapter 1:3-4 is very explainable by itself about the deity of Christ if one is really is enlightened by the Holy Spirit, otherwise you would never understand it.

When Christ asked the Pharisees about “whose Son is He? They answered, “the son of David”

Mat22:43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
Mat22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Mat22:45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
Mat22:46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Can you answer verse 45 “If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?”

 

[BornAgain]

Not at all. Jesus wasnt God.

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hebrews 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Romans 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

1Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

How can you deny from these verses that Christ is NOT God? Can you think of one verse that says otherwise?

 

[Shiranui117]

Rom1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

If you read carefully from verse 3 of Romans chapter 1, "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;"

We read verse 4 "And declared to be the Son of God with power", "by the resurrection from the dead:".

The word "horizo", to mark off by boundaries, signifies to determines, usually of time, Christ is said to have been marked out as the Son of God, by the fact of His resurrection.

I agree so far. My Bible has a footnote which says, "Christ's resurrection did not make Him the Son of God, but rather declared Him to be so. The truth of His divinity, which had been veiled from the world, is revealed fully in His Passion and Resurrection.

Mary came from the line of David, therefore Mary is human like you and me.

Naturally.

What do you see on the horizon? A line separating the earth and the sky. When Christ was resurrected, he was separated from His human form -as the son of Mary, as a brother to His brothers and sisters, or in other words, at the resurrection Christ ended His human genealogy- and came back to His deity as the immortal, eternal living God, the Son of the immortal, living most high God.

This statement raises two very big red flags for me.

Problem #1: You say that Christ stopped being human at His Resurrection. This means that He left His humanity in the grave, in death. Do you know the implications of this? If Christ left His humanity in the grave, then He cannot truly be the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep (1 Corinthians 15:20), as He is not the same as us. Sure, He as God the Son can rise from the dead, no problem. But He HAS to take His humanity with Him, if He is to be the firstfruits of the dead; if Jesus as a human is not risen, then how can we be risen?

1 Corinthians 15 tells us that Jesus Christ did in fact raise as a man:
20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.

Moreover, He was risen in His old body; He proved this to doubting Thomas in John 20.

26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” 27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

He was risen in the flesh. He was risen in His humanity, AND His Divinity. Was His humanity redeemed and transformed? Yes. Did He lose any part of His humanity? No, to the contrary! He restored and glorified His humanity--and He will do the same to all who accept His salvation. He never "shed" His human form.

Problem #2: Correct me if I'm wrong, but it also seems like you're saying here that Jesus was less God, or not God at all, during His time here on earth. Have I misunderstood you?

During Christ's earthly ministry, as a human, He is the son of Mary, but still at the same time, as God, the Son of the most high God. On the human/flesh side Mary was His mother, but on the Spiritual side, the Son of God.

My Bible has a footnote for Romans 1:3: Jesus Christ is one Person with two natures, human and divine. His divine nature is from all eternity and is revealed that He is both God's Son and the Lord. His human nature is revealed in His being born of the seed of David according to the flesh: He was conceived and born of the Virgin Mary while never ceasing to be God. (underlining my emphasis)

Would you agree with the above, particularly with the underlined?

This Romans chapter 1:3-4 is very explainable by itself about the deity of Christ if one is really is enlightened by the Holy Spirit, otherwise you would never understand it.

I would agree.

When Christ asked the Pharisees about “whose Son is He? They answered, “the son of David”

Mat22:43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
Mat22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Mat22:45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
Mat22:46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Can you answer verse 45 “If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?”

Jesus is David's son in His human nature, but is also Lord according to His divine nature. He is both human and divine at the same time.

Likewise, Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary as God in the flesh--but is still God. Since He never stopped being God, and Mary gave birth to Him, it is appropriate to call her "Theotokos," which can mean either Mother of God, Birth-Giver of God, or God-bearer.

 

[Edenborne]

When Jesus ascended into Heaven, his body went with him.

This is the defining difference between assumption (ascension) and particular salvation. In particular salvation (or damnation), your soul goes to it's destination. At the final judgement, your soul returns to the body and both go to it's final place.

Elijah ascended, for example. Both body and soul went up in a whirlwind into Heaven. It is Catholic belief that Mary did as well.

The point to be made is that if Jesus' body ascended, then Mary has to be the Mother of God both on Earth and in Heaven. Needless to say, she is the Queen of the Father. But that doesn't make her a 'goddess' either. She is venerated as the Queen, not worshiped as God.

 

[Shiranui117]

This is the defining difference between assumption (ascension) and particular salvation. In particular salvation (or damnation), your soul goes to it's destination. At the final judgement, your soul returns to the body and both go to it's final place.

Hi Edenborne, if I may ask you a question about this part of your post in particular...

Whenever I've talked with Catholics about the particular judgement, the answer that the soul either goes to Heaven, Purgatory or Hell, is resurrected at the Last Judgement, and is then either sent to Heaven or Hell, prompts a question in my mind.

In the Catholic view, are those who are sent to Hell in their particular judgement guaranteed to be sent to Hell at the Last Judgement? Does the particular judgement always have the same ruling as the Last Judgement?

Thank you in advance, and if you don't understand my question, let me know, and I'll try and find a better way of putting it! Peace and God bless!