Mary as "Mother of God", Accurate or Borderline Blasphemy?

[BornAgain]

I agree so far. My Bible has a footnote which says, "Christ's resurrection did not make Him the Son of God, but rather declared Him to be so. The truth of His divinity, which had been veiled from the world, is revealed fully in His Passion and Resurrection.

Naturally.

This statement raises two very big red flags for me.

Problem #1: You say that Christ stopped being human at His Resurrection. This means that He left His humanity in the grave, in death. Do you know the implications of this? If Christ left His humanity in the grave, then He cannot truly be the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep (1 Corinthians 15:20), as He is not the same as us. Sure, He as God the Son can rise from the dead, no problem. But He HAS to take His humanity with Him, if He is to be the firstfruits of the dead; if Jesus as a human is not risen, then how can we be risen?

1 Corinthians 15 tells us that Jesus Christ did in fact raise as a man:
20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.

Moreover, He was risen in His old body; He proved this to doubting Thomas in John 20.

26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” 27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

He was risen in the flesh. He was risen in His humanity, AND His Divinity. Was His humanity redeemed and transformed? Yes. Did He lose any part of His humanity? No, to the contrary! He restored and glorified His humanity--and He will do the same to all who accept His salvation. He never "shed" His human form.

1Co15:21 For since by man/ADAM came death, by man [CHRIST STILL IN HUMAN FORM BEFORE THE RESURRECTION AND NOT AFTER THE RESURRECTION] came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

In verse 21, it says, “by man/Adam came death’”, meaning: the commandment in Genesis chapter 2.

Gen2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Adam did not die right away after he ate the forbidden fruit. The spirit of Adam was the one that died and was separated from God. Adam’s body with the dead spirit lived for 930 years.

Gen5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Human is made, or consist of body, soul and spirit, or trichotomous. The “spirit” is the part that enables us to perceive the divine. Through this component we can know and communicate with God. This higher element, though damage through the fall of Adam, is sufficiently intact to provide each individual a consciousness of God. The “soul” is the sphere of our will and emotions, the true center of personality, which gives us a self-consciousness that relates to the physical world through the body and to God through the spirit. The “body” is the one that communicate with the physical environment, or the world that we see.

If you can imagine how is the set-up of the tabernacle during Moses’ time, you will understand the arrangement of how God communicated with the people of Israel. In the tabernacle there were: the most holy place, or the holy of holies, and this is where the ark of the covenant is, and this is where only the high priest can go in and out to communicate directly to God. So, everytime the people -in the bible when you see these words “the people” in means the Israelites or the chosen people of God- settle down they set-up the tabernacle. The tabernacle without the Shekinah glory of the most high God is just like any other tent, no power at all. Now, when the Shekinah glory of God filled the tabernacle, the power of God, the Shekinah glory of the most high God sits on top of the ark of the covenant inside the most holy place. REMEMBER: Only the high priest goes in and out of the most holy place, otherwise you will be dead if you are not the high priest.

Now, the holy place is where the high priest do the everyday service to the people, and the outer court is where the people are. In other words the tabernacle consist of three parts, the most holy place, the holy place, and the outer court.

The high priest can communicate to God inside the most holy place where God is, and from the holy place to the people in the outer court, which are the physicals. The people can not communicate to God directly but through the high priest only.

Remember the definition of human or trichotomous? Spirit, soul, and the body.

The most holy place where God is, represent God’s Spirit dealing with the human spirit.

Joh4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

What is the truth?

Joh17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

YES! The word of God is the only truth.

The holy place where the high priest do the service for the people is, represent the human soul.

The outer court where the people are, represent the human body.

For a human being to be able to communicate to God through the human spirit, it needs a soul, and from the soul to communicate to the body. Remember, God does not communicate directly to our body, but only through our spirit, and from our spirit to our soul, and from our soul then to our body. So, a man needs a soul to communicate to his own spirit so he can communicate to God Who is a Spirit, or spirit to Spirit communication, and then from the soul to the body/physical, but because of the fall of man that communication, man’s spirit, to God cease or damage. Who bridge that communication back again to God?

1Ti2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Back to your question in 1Cor 15:21. Did you read the rest of the this chapter? Well, I guess you did not, because if you did, you will find your answer.

1Cor15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cor15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cor15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

I hope this answer your question. If a Christian die today his natural body, at the resurrection of the dead, will be raised as a spiritual body and not as a human or mortal body anymore. So, how can you say that the resurrected Christ is still in the human form when it says here otherwise? Christ was sown as a natural body, and raised or resurrected in spiritual body. Why there is a spiritual body? For the simple reason they need to see or witness the resurrected Christ.

1Co15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Co15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

 

[Pegg]

She was ritually impure from having given birth. She didn't necessarily sin, but because she had given birth, she was unclean.

“All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, ...”Romans 3:23
Paul does not say 'all except Mary have sinned'...


What is it about 'birth' that makes a person 'ritually impure'?

 

[Me Myself]

All mothers are mothers of God

 

[Shiranui117]

“All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, ...”Romans 3:23
Paul does not say 'all except Mary have sinned'...

There's no question that Mary suffered from the effects of the Fall as well. The Catholics have made it a dogma that Mary was sinless from birth. There is a diversity of Orthodox opinion on the issue; some say that Mary was born immaculate, others say that she was made immaculate and cleansed from all sin at the Annunciation. All agree that she had to be sanctified and holy to be able to bear God incarnate in her womb for nine months.

What is it about 'birth' that makes a person 'ritually impure'?

Did you even read the bit from Leviticus I posted?

 

[Shiranui117]

1Co15:21 For since by man/ADAM came death, by man [CHRIST STILL IN HUMAN FORM BEFORE THE RESURRECTION AND NOT AFTER THE RESURRECTION]

Prove it from Scripture.

came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

In verse 21, it says, “by man/Adam came death’”, meaning: the commandment in Genesis chapter 2.

Adam did not die right away after he ate the forbidden fruit. The spirit of Adam was the one that died and was separated from God. Adam’s body with the dead spirit lived for 930 years.

Gen5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Human is made, or consist of body, soul and spirit, or trichotomous.

Thank you for stating the obvious.

If you can imagine how is the set-up of the tabernacle during Moses’ time, you will understand the arrangement of how God communicated with the people of Israel. In the tabernacle there were: the most holy place, or the holy of holies, and this is where the ark of the covenant is, and this is where only the high priest can go in and out to communicate directly to God. So, everytime the people -in the bible when you see these words “the people” in means the Israelites or the chosen people of God- settle down they set-up the tabernacle. The tabernacle without the Shekinah glory of the most high God is just like any other tent, no power at all. Now, when the Shekinah glory of God filled the tabernacle, the power of God, the Shekinah glory of the most high God sits on top of the ark of the covenant inside the most holy place. REMEMBER: Only the high priest goes in and out of the most holy place, otherwise you will be dead if you are not the high priest.

Now, the holy place is where the high priest do the everyday service to the people, and the outer court is where the people are. In other words the tabernacle consist of three parts, the most holy place, the holy place, and the outer court.

The high priest can communicate to God inside the most holy place where God is, and from the holy place to the people in the outer court, which are the physicals. The people can not communicate to God directly but through the high priest only.

Remember the definition of human or trichotomous? Spirit, soul, and the body.

The most holy place where God is, represent God’s Spirit dealing with the human spirit.

The holy place where the high priest do the service for the people is, represent the human soul.

The outer court where the people are, represent the human body.

On what grounds do you make this analogy? Where is such an analogy or metaphor made in Scripture? How do you or I know that you're not just pulling this out of the air?

Joh4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

What is the truth?

Joh17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

YES! The word of God is the only truth.

Jesus Christ is the Word. The Bible is the word about the Word, but is not itself the Word.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

For a human being to be able to communicate to God through the human spirit, it needs a soul, and from the soul to communicate to the body. Remember, God does not communicate directly to our body, but only through our spirit, and from our spirit to our soul, and from our soul then to our body.

Prove it from Scripture.

Who bridge that communication back again to God?

1Ti2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Thank you for stating the obvious.

Back to your question in 1Cor 15:21. Did you read the rest of the this chapter? Well, I guess you did not, because if you did, you will find your answer.

1Cor15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cor15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cor15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

I hope this answer your question. If a Christian die today his natural body, at the resurrection of the dead, will be raised as a spiritual body and not as a human or mortal body anymore.

You're essentially saying that we cease to be human at the Resurrection. We leave our humanity in the grave. This is not what 1 Corinthians 15 is saying.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”[g]
55 “O Death, where is your sting?[h]
O Hades, where is your victory?”[i]


"the flesh" in Scripture refers most often to our sinful, fallen human nature. When we are resurrected, if God saves us, our human nature is restored and redeemed by God, not abandoned or thrown away. By being sown in corruption, it means to die in sin. By being raised in incorruption, it means to be raised in righteousness and eternal life.

By being sown as a natural body, it means to die as one with a fallen nature. By being raised in a spiritual body, it means to be raised up (in the same body we had, mind you!) transfigured by the state of our souls--whether that be glorified and filled by the grace of the Holy Spirit, or showing the hideous nature of the sins still lurking in our hearts.

1 Corinthians 15 doesn't say that we'll be raised in another body. Far from it! Every reference in the Bible to rising from the dead or being resurrected ALWAYS refers to being brought back to life in the same bodies we once had.

So, how can you say that the resurrected Christ is still in the human form when it says here otherwise?

You don't understand 1 Corinthians 15, I'm afraid. Also, way to throw out all the Resurrection accounts when Jesus rose in His human body. The tomb was EMPTY. Thomas put his hands and fingers into Jesus' wounds. Jesus was raised in His old human body. His body was glorified and transfigured like how it was on Mount Tabor in Matthew 17, but it was still His human body.

You CANNOT contradict the Gospels. You CANNOT contradict the personal experience of the Apostles. Your interpretation of 1 Corinthians 15 is faulty, I'm afraid, and stands in contradiction to the clear story of the Gospels. But don't worry, a lot of people have the same interpretation. You're not the only one.

Christ was sown as a natural body, and raised or resurrected in spiritual body. Why there is a spiritual body? For the simple reason they need to see or witness the resurrected Christ.

Tell me, are "spiritual bodies" made up of flesh and bone, and do they have the marks from when we died, like how Jesus' resurrected body had the spear and nail wounds from the Cross?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

It seems that what people who might find it idolatrous to suggest that Mary is the "Mother of God" is because there is an assumption that motherhood itself is a position more sacred than that of her child or of childhood in general.

I grew up in the Catholic Church, and Marian theology was and still is an interpretation I find poetic, meaningful, and beautiful. I don't understand why saying "Mother of God" can be considered blasphemous, unless there is a threat to the holiness of God the Father and Jesus by suggesting that Mary is right up there with them both....or worse....that she's more holy than they.

 

[Pegg]

There's no question that Mary suffered from the effects of the Fall as well. The Catholics have made it a dogma that Mary was sinless from birth. There is a diversity of Orthodox opinion on the issue; some say that Mary was born immaculate, others say that she was made immaculate and cleansed from all sin at the Annunciation. All agree that she had to be sanctified and holy to be able to bear God incarnate in her womb for nine months.

if they just stuck to the Bible, they wouldnt have to debate such things. Mary was an offpring of Adam just as we all are. She was born in sin. The bible doesnt say she was immaculate, nor does it say that she was made immaculate. Rather it says that even while carrying Jesus and after giving birth, she was still a sinner...otherwise she would not have needed to take her sacrifice to the temple.

Did you even read the bit from Leviticus I posted?

I did, but im asking you why giving birth makes a person 'unclean'... what is the orthodox answer to that?

 

[dawny0826]

It seems that what people who might find it idolatrous to suggest that Mary is the "Mother of God" is because there is an assumption that motherhood itself is a position more sacred than that of her child or of childhood in general.

I grew up in the Catholic Church, and Marian theology was and still is an interpretation I find poetic, meaningful, and beautiful. I don't understand why saying "Mother of God" can be considered blasphemous, unless there is a threat to the holiness of God the Father and Jesus by suggesting that Mary is right up there with them both....or worse....that she's more holy than they.

I agree with you. I'm not Catholic but have always had respect for reverence of Mary. Having given birth to Christ, she was, quite literally, from my perspective, the Mother of God. Believing this doesn't place her on a higher pedestal than God Himself in anyway.

In fact, God provided an example of his favor, through Mary. She exempflifies many things to different people.

 

[BornAgain]

Prove it from Scripture.

You're essentially saying that we cease to be human at the Resurrection. We leave our humanity in the grave. This is not what 1 Corinthians 15 is saying.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

"the flesh" in Scripture refers most often to our sinful, fallen human nature. When we are resurrected, if God saves us, our human nature is restored and redeemed by God, not abandoned or thrown away. By being sown in corruption, it means to die in sin. By being raised in incorruption, it means to be raised in righteousness and eternal life.

By being sown as a natural body, it means to die as one with a fallen nature. By being raised in a spiritual body, it means to be raised up (in the same body we had, mind you!) transfigured by the state of our souls--whether that be glorified and filled by the grace of the Holy Spirit, or showing the hideous nature of the sins still lurking in our hearts.

1 Corinthians 15 doesn't say that we'll be raised in another body. Far from it! Every reference in the Bible to rising from the dead or being resurrected ALWAYS refers to being brought back to life in the same bodies we once had.

What is it that you did not understand in verse 51? "but we shall be changed" Change from what?

For me the word "change" is like, not the same from the one before you change. If I change my socks, and put on a new pair of socks, the new socks will not be the same as the old socks. Man! you know we've learned this things before we even start walking. A change is not the same, even if you changed it to the same thing or kind.

So, from mortal to immortality that is a change, and from corruption to incorruption that is a change also. There is only one meaning to that, Christians are not going to be the same as the old body, the mortal body, the corruptible body. They will be changed to immortal and incorruptible body.

Corruption means decompose at the grave. what is the meaning of sown? into the grave like sowing seeds. what happen when you sow a seed? decompose, corruption before it grows to new one.

Acts 2:31 He/David seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Why did the Lord Jesus did not see corruption? He was sinless, not part of Adam at all. We humans, including Mary, were parts of Adam's curse. From dust we came, from dust we go back. That was the curse in Genesis. All humans, including Mary, when we die we will see, or our bodies will see corruption or decompose, unless you preserve your dead body inside the freezer. Now, at the resurrection, those in Christ will be changed in the twinkling of an eye.

CAN YOU SAY JESUS SAVE ME IN A TWINKLING OF AN EYE?

That’s how fast it is.

You don't understand 1 Corinthians 15, I'm afraid. Also, way to throw out all the Resurrection accounts when Jesus rose in His human body. The tomb was EMPTY. Thomas put his hands and fingers into Jesus' wounds. Jesus was raised in His old human body. His body was glorified and transfigured like how it was on Mount Tabor in Matthew 17, but it was still His human body.

Let’s say when Jesus resurrected and appeared as a Spirit or ghost, would they, the apostles, have seen the holes in His hands?
Would they have seen Him if He was a ghost and still wrote what we read in the bible about the resurrection?
Would they have witnessed all the events about the Lord Jesus after His resurrection if He showed up as a ghost?

The resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ is the most important event in the bible. They, the apostles, must witness and write this event.

1Co15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
1Co15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Co15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Co15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Co15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Co15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

It’s all about the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[/QUOTE]

 

[jeager106]

I must agree with rusra O2.

 

[Shiranui117]

What is it that you did not understand in verse 51? "but we shall be changed" Change from what?

For me the word "change" is like, not the same from the one before you change. If I change my socks, and put on a new pair of socks, the new socks will not be the same as the old socks. Man! you know we've learned this things before we even start walking. A change is not the same, even if you changed it to the same thing or kind.

So, from mortal to immortality that is a change, and from corruption to incorruption that is a change also. There is only one meaning to that, Christians are not going to be the same as the old body, the mortal body, the corruptible body. They will be changed to immortal and incorruptible body.

How do you know that "change" is used in 1 Corinthians 15 in the sense of "to change one's socks"? How are WE changed, as it states in verse 51? You separate us from our human bodies, and make them unimportant and inconsequential to our human identity. Weren't you the one who stated that we humans are trichotomous, that we're made of spirit, soul AND body? Pick a story and stick with it.

We will be changed. Transformed, transfigured, glorified. Not have certain parts of us traded out for others.

Corruption means decompose at the grave. what is the meaning of sown? into the grave like sowing seeds. what happen when you sow a seed? decompose, corruption before it grows to new one.

"before it grows to new one"?

Acts 2:31 He/David seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Why did the Lord Jesus did not see corruption? He was sinless, not part of Adam at all. We humans, including Mary, were parts of Adam's curse. From dust we came, from dust we go back. That was the curse in Genesis. All humans, including Mary, when we die we will see, or our bodies will see corruption or decompose, unless you preserve your dead body inside the freezer.

Thank you for stating the obvious.

Also, it doesn't matter if our bodies rot, as far as the resurrection of the dead is concerned; God can still restore them and bring them back to life.

Ezekiel 37:1 The hand of the Lord came upon me and brought me out in the Spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley; and it was full of bones. 2 Then He caused me to pass by them all around, and behold, there were very many in the open valley; and indeed they were very dry. 3 And He said to me, “Son of man, can these bones live?”So I answered, “O Lord God, You know.”
4 Again He said to me, “Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, ‘O dry bones, hear the word of the Lord! 5 Thus says the Lord God to these bones: “Surely I will cause breath to enter into you, and you shall live. 6 I will put sinews on you and bring flesh upon you, cover you with skin and put breath in you; and you shall live. Then you shall know that I am the Lord.”’”
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and suddenly a rattling; and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8 Indeed, as I looked, the sinews and the flesh came upon them, and the skin covered them over; but there was no breath in them.
9 Also He said to me, “Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.”’” 10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army.
11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’”

Now, at the resurrection, those in Christ will be changed in the twinkling of an eye.

CAN YOU SAY JESUS SAVE ME IN A TWINKLING OF AN EYE?

That’s how fast it is.

I don't see what this has to do with our current conversation.

Let’s say when Jesus resurrected and appeared as a Spirit or ghost, would they, the apostles, have seen the holes in His hands?
Would they have seen Him if He was a ghost and still wrote what we read in the bible about the resurrection?
Would they have witnessed all the events about the Lord Jesus after His resurrection if He showed up as a ghost?

A question or two right back at you...

Would Thomas have been able to physically feel Jesus' wounds in His hands and side if He was was just a ghost--or, as you put it, in a "spiritual body"?

Would Jesus' tomb be empty if He wasn't raised in His human body?

The resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ is the most important event in the bible. They, the apostles, must witness and write this event.

1Co15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
1Co15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Co15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Co15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Co15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Co15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

It’s all about the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Again, thank you for stating the obvious. I'm glad you agree that Jesus was risen in His old human body, wounds and all.

 

[Shiranui117]

if they just stuck to the Bible, they wouldnt have to debate such things. Mary was an offpring of Adam just as we all are. She was born in sin. The bible doesnt say she was immaculate, nor does it say that she was made immaculate. Rather it says that even while carrying Jesus and after giving birth, she was still a sinner...otherwise she would not have needed to take her sacrifice to the temple.

Under the Mosaic Law, being unclean is the same thing as being in sin.

Leviticus 5:
2 ‘Or if a person touches any unclean thing, whether it is the carcass of an unclean beast, or the carcass of unclean livestock, or the carcass of unclean creeping things, and he is unaware of it, he also shall be unclean and guilty. 3 Or if he touches human uncleanness—whatever uncleanness with which a man may be defiled, and he is unaware of it—when he realizes it, then he shall be guilty.

I did, but im asking you why giving birth makes a person 'unclean'... what is the orthodox answer to that?

Like most other things in the OT surrounding ritual impurity, the purification period after having given birth was due to hygiene.

 

[Pegg]

Under the Mosaic Law, being unclean is the same thing as being in sin.

right, so Mary was a sinner....not perfect or immaculate as some believe.

giving birth highlighted the state of 'uncleaness' or 'sinfulness' of the woman, and the purification was something different...it wasnt 'only' about ritual impurity.

Lev 12:2-4 ‘In case a woman conceives seed and does bear a male, she must be unclean seven days; as in the days of the impurity when she is menstruating she will be unclean. 3 And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin will be circumcised. 4 For thirty-three days more she will stay in the blood of purification

Like most other things in the OT surrounding ritual impurity, the purification period after having given birth was due to hygiene.

if it was due to hygiene, why was the length of purification different depending on the gender of the child??

giving birth to a boy was ceremonially unclean for 7 days, with an additional 33 days required for her purification. But if the child was a girl, then the mother was considered unclean for 14 days, requiring 66 days more for purification.

I think something more then simple hygiene is behind this difference.

 

[BornAgain]

How do you know that "change" is used in 1 Corinthians 15 in the sense of "to change one's socks"? How are WE changed, as it states in verse 51? You separate us from our human bodies, and make them unimportant and inconsequential to our human identity. Weren't you the one who stated that we humans are trichotomous, that we're made of spirit, soul AND body? Pick a story and stick with it.

We will be changed. Transformed, transfigured, glorified. Not have certain parts of us traded out for others.

Thank you for stating the obvious.

Yeah! Its so obvious even the word “change” you can not understand. You give a 5 year old boy a blue balloon, if he does not like it, he would say “CHANGE” it to red balloon.

THE MEANING OF THE WORD "CHANGE" ACCORDING TO MR. WEBSTER:

change (ch³nj) v. changed, chang·ing, chang·es. --tr.
1.a. To cause to be different: change the spelling of a word. b. To give a completely different form or appearance to; transform: changed the yard into a garden.
2. To give and receive reciprocally; interchange: change places.
3. To exchange for or replace with another, usually of the same kind or category: change one's name; a light that changes colors.
4.a. To lay aside, abandon, or leave for another; switch: change methods; change sides. b. To transfer from (one conveyance) to another: change planes.
5. To give or receive the equivalent of (money) in lower denominations or in foreign currency.
6. To put a fresh covering on: change a bed; change the baby. --intr.

1. To become different or undergo alteration: He changed as he matured.
2. To undergo transformation or transition: The music changed to a slow waltz.
3. To go from one phase to another, as the moon or the seasons.
4. To make an exchange: If you prefer this seat, I'll change with you.
5. To transfer from one conveyance to another: She changed in Chicago on her way to the coast.
6. To put on other clothing: We changed for dinner.
7. To become deeper in tone: His voice began to change at age 13. --
change n.
1. The act, process, or result of altering or modifying: a change in facial expression.
2. The replacing of one thing for another; substitution: a change of atmosphere; a change of ownership.
3. A transformation or transition from one state, condition, or phase to another: the change of seasons.
4. Something different; variety: ate early for a change. 5. A different or fresh set of clothing.
6. Abbr. chg. a. Money of smaller denomination given or received in exchange for money of higher denomination. b. The balance of money returned when an amount given is more than what is due. c. Coins: had change jingling in his pocket.
7. Music. A pattern or order in which bells are rung. 8. A market or exchange where business is transacted.

"before it grows to new one"?

Joh12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. [See Rom6:5. Eph2:11 Gentiles]
Joh12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Also, it doesn't matter if our bodies rot, as far as the resurrection of the dead is concerned; God can still restore them and bring them back to life.

You are so worried about your body, on how you gonna look like, that you rather twist the scriptures, so you can express your idea or doctrine. Peter wrote something like this.

2Pe3:16 As also in all his/Paul’s epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

NLT VERSION:
Speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have TWISTED his letters around to mean something quite different from what he meant, just as they do the other parts of Scriptures- and the result is disaster for them.

Would Thomas have been able to physically feel Jesus' wounds in His hands and side if He was was just a ghost--or, as you put it, in a "spiritual body"?
Would Jesus' tomb be empty if He wasn't raised in His human body?

Did Thomas actually or physically -according to you- touch the Lord Jesus Christ?
Let’s go to the scriptures.

Joh20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. [See Tit2:13, Rom9:5, Heb1:8, 2Pe1:1]
Joh20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. [SEE 1Pe1:8]

The Lord Jesus Christ said unto him, Thomas, “because thou hast seen me,” He didn’t say “because thou hast touch me”. When Thomas saw the Lord Jesus Christ, right away he believed and said, "My Lord and my God."

This is what I’ve been telling you. You pick-up things and make a theory about it and just blurt it out in the open without even understanding what you were reading.

I'm glad you agree that Jesus was risen in His old human body, wounds and all.

I did not agree on you, OR with you, or anything you wrote at all.

Please review again the meaning of the word “CHANGE”.

See what happened when you let your mind twist the scriptures, the scriptures gets back to you. You can not see the truth, even if it staring right in front you, you can not see it. The scriptures will prove you wrong about your twisted paganism doctrine time and time again. Isaiah was right;

Mat13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

I believe I asked you this question already.

You know what is the Greek word for "superstitious"?

While Paul was walking in Athens -BYW you could read in Acts chapter 17 in the bible- “he saw the city wholly given to idolatry” Acts 17:16, and in verse 22 this is what Paul said:
Act17:22 _ “Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars’ hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.”

SUPERSTITIOUS IN Greek IS “DEISIDAIMON” meaning: reverent to the deity [deido, to fear; daimon, a demon, or pagan god.]

Every time you bend your knees to these idols, you are worshiping satan. DEISIDAIMON, remember this word everytime you worship them.

 

[Shiranui117]

Yeah! Its so obvious even the word “change” you can not understand. You give a 5 year old boy a blue balloon, if he does not like it, he would say “CHANGE” it to red balloon.

And how do you know that this is the sort of "change" that Paul had in mind?

Also, cut the patronizing routine. I could just as easily say that it's YOU who doesn't understand the meaning of the word "change," and start belittling your intelligence, but you don't see me doing that, do you? No? Then don't do it yourself, and try having a civil conversation like a mature adult.

THE MEANING OF THE WORD "CHANGE" ACCORDING TO MR. WEBSTER:
change (ch³nj) v. changed, chang·ing, chang·es. --tr.
1.a. To cause to be different: change the spelling of a word. b. To give a completely different form or appearance to; transform: changed the yard into a garden.
2. To give and receive reciprocally; interchange: change places.
3. To exchange for or replace with another, usually of the same kind or category: change one's name; a light that changes colors.
4.a. To lay aside, abandon, or leave for another; switch: change methods; change sides. b. To transfer from (one conveyance) to another: change planes.
5. To give or receive the equivalent of (money) in lower denominations or in foreign currency.
6. To put a fresh covering on: change a bed; change the baby. --intr.

1. To become different or undergo alteration: He changed as he matured.
2. To undergo transformation or transition: The music changed to a slow waltz.
3. To go from one phase to another, as the moon or the seasons.
4. To make an exchange: If you prefer this seat, I'll change with you.
5. To transfer from one conveyance to another: She changed in Chicago on her way to the coast.
6. To put on other clothing: We changed for dinner.
7. To become deeper in tone: His voice began to change at age 13. --
change n.
1. The act, process, or result of altering or modifying: a change in facial expression.
2. The replacing of one thing for another; substitution: a change of atmosphere; a change of ownership.
3. A transformation or transition from one state, condition, or phase to another: the change of seasons.
4. Something different; variety: ate early for a change. 5. A different or fresh set of clothing.
6. Abbr. chg. a. Money of smaller denomination given or received in exchange for money of higher denomination. b. The balance of money returned when an amount given is more than what is due. c. Coins: had change jingling in his pocket.
7. Music. A pattern or order in which bells are rung. 8. A market or exchange where business is transacted.

Do you see all the things I bolded? All those are things that agree with 1 Corinthians.

I think you're starting to make a mountain out of a molehill here. Unless you can definitively prove that "change" means "exchange," you have no ground to stand on.

Joh12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. [See Rom6:5. Eph2:11 Gentiles]

Yes, Jesus is the firstfruits of the dead, and He brings forth the fruit of resurrection and eternal life.

Joh12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

This isn't really relevant to the discussion at hand.

You are so worried about your body, on how you gonna look like, that you rather twist the scriptures, so you can express your idea or doctrine. Peter wrote something like this.

How am I twisting the Scriptures? You're making a baseless assumption that I'm "worried" about my body or what I'm going to look like, when I have said nothing of the sort.

2Pe3:16 As also in all his/Paul’s epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

NLT VERSION:
Speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have TWISTED his letters around to mean something quite different from what he meant, just as they do the other parts of Scriptures- and the result is disaster for them.

And what proof do you have that I'm the one doing this?

Did Thomas actually or physically -according to you- touch the Lord Jesus Christ?
Let’s go to the scriptures.

Joh20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. [See Tit2:13, Rom9:5, Heb1:8, 2Pe1:1]
Joh20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. [SEE 1Pe1:8]

The Lord Jesus Christ said unto him, Thomas, “because thou hast seen me,” He didn’t say “because thou hast touch me”. When Thomas saw the Lord Jesus Christ, right away he believed and said, "My Lord and my God."

The fact that Jesus commanded Thomas to physically touch Jesus and thrust his hand into Jesus' side is proof enough that Jesus had a physical body that could be touched. The fact that it had the nail marks and the spear wounds shows that it was Jesus' old human body, resurrected and brought back to life.

This is what I’ve been telling you. You pick-up things and make a theory about it and just blurt it out in the open without even understanding what you were reading.

Where have I done that? Cut the ad hominem crap, it's not getting either of us anywhere. Keep it civil, man.

I did not agree on you, OR with you, or anything you wrote at all.

So you don't agree when I say that Jesus Christ is our Lord, God and Savior, and that God alone should be worshipped? Okay, cool.

Please review again the meaning of the word “CHANGE”.

Alright. And?

See what happened when you let your mind twist the scriptures, the scriptures gets back to you. You can not see the truth, even if it staring right in front you, you can not see it. The scriptures will prove you wrong about your twisted paganism doctrine time and time again. Isaiah was right;

Mat13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

I'm really starting to feel that this dialogue is fruitless. Unless you stop being hostile and start having a civil conversation with me, I have a mind to dust my feet of this conversation.

You're not going to make the conversation progress by insulting me, belittling my intelligence, or doubting my faith in Christ, or by saying that I'm a pagan and not a Christian. Jesus Christ is the Judge and Ruler of all the world, not you. One of the virtues we as Christians are supposed to be practicing is the virtue of not judging others.

I believe I asked you this question already.

You know what is the Greek word for "superstitious"?

While Paul was walking in Athens -BYW you could read in Acts chapter 17 in the bible- “he saw the city wholly given to idolatry” Acts 17:16, and in verse 22 this is what Paul said:
Act17:22 _ “Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars’ hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.”

SUPERSTITIOUS IN Greek IS “DEISIDAIMON” meaning: reverent to the deity [deido, to fear; daimon, a demon, or pagan god.]

Every time you bend your knees to these idols, you are worshiping satan. DEISIDAIMON, remember this word everytime you worship them.

And I believe I already answered it and told you that we don't have idols, nor do we worship them, and that we only worship God and God alone.

 

[BornAgain]

You don't understand 1 Corinthians 15, I'm afraid. Also, way to throw out all the Resurrection accounts when Jesus rose in His human body. The tomb was EMPTY. Thomas put his hands and fingers into Jesus' wounds. Jesus was raised in His old human body. His body was glorified and transfigured like how it was on Mount Tabor in Matthew 17, but it was still His human body.

TRANSLATION FROM KJV TO NLT

1Co15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? [THIS IS YOUR QUESTION, “WHAT BODY DO THEY COME”]

NLT 35*But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?”*

1Co15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

NLT 36*What a foolish question! When you put a seed into the ground, it doesn’t grow into a plant unless it dies first.

1Co15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

NLT 37*And what you put in the ground is not the plant that will grow, but only a bare seed of wheat or whatever you are planting.

1Co15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

NLT 38*Then God gives it the new body he wants it to have. A different plant grows from each kind of seed.
1Co15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

NLT 39*Similarly there are different kinds of flesh—one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish.

1Co15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

NLT 40*There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

1Cor15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

NLT 41*The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

[NOW THIS VERSE -V42- WILL DEFINITELY ANSWER YOUR QUESTION]

1Cor15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

NLT 42*It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever.

AMP VERSION
42*So it is with the resurrection of the dead. [The body] that is sown is perishable*and*decays, but [the body] that is resurrected is imperishable (immune to decay, immortal).

1Cor15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

NLT 43*Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength.

1Cor15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

NLT 44*They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies

Now, how can you say that Christ resurrected in the human form, or in His old human body? It is like, your are saying that Christ did not resurrect at all when you said that He resurrected in HIS old body. If you believed that Christ resurrected in His old body, then you don’t believe in the resurrection of the dead. Of course the tomb will be empty, because Christ resurrected, but not the human body that will die again, but the Spiritual resurrected form that will never die again, and this serves as an example of what it will take place to Christians at the resurrection of the dead. From mortality to immortality. What is so hard to understand about this changes from mortality to immortality? Christians will not be the same/mortal at the resurrection/immortal. "they will be change".

1Co15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Co15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

AMP VERSION

13*But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not risen;
14*And if Christ has not risen, then our preaching is in vain [it amounts to nothing] and your faith is devoid of truth*and*is fruitless (without effect, empty, imaginary, and unfounded)

 

[BornAgain]

And I believe I already answered it and told you that we don't have idols, nor do we worship them, and that we only worship God and God alone.

What icons are not idols?

Exo20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Dt4:15 Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire:
Dt4:16 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,
Dt4:17 The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air,
Dt4:18 The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth:

Although these commandments were given to Moses for the Israelites, Christian gentiles were not exempted from these rules, as Christians has the same God as the Israelites.

 

[Shiranui117]

TRANSLATION FROM KJV TO NLT

There isn't a "translation from" the KJV to the NLT. Both of them drew from the Greek. You can't translate something from one language into the same language.

Now, how can you say that Christ resurrected in the human form, or in His old human body? It is like, your are saying that Christ did not resurrect at all when you said that He resurrected in HIS old body. If you believed that Christ resurrected in His old body, then you don’t believe in the resurrection of the dead.

Can you explain this part, please? I'm not sure why you're saying this. Especially the bolded. Why would saying that Jesus rose in the same body as He had before be denying the resurrection of the dead?

Of course the tomb will be empty, because Christ resurrected, but not the human body that will die again, but the Spiritual resurrected form that will never die again, and this serves as an example of what it will take place to Christians at the resurrection of the dead. From mortality to immortality. What is so hard to understand about this changes from mortality to immortality? Christians will not be the same/mortal at the resurrection/immortal. "they will be change".

Yes, Jesus Christ was risen in the same body as He had before, except now His body was glorified and transformed, no longer mortal, but immortal, no longer bearing the consequences of our Fall, but being redeemed to His Divine Nature, transformed and deified.

Keeping 1 Corinthians 15:35-44 in mind, would you agree with the footnote that my study bible has for vv. 35-54?

How will the dead rise? What is the resurrection body like? Paul's most basic contrast is that between the natural (lit. "soulish"; Gr. psychikon) and the spiritual (Gr. pneumatikon, v. 44), that is, between the present body and the deified body. Other contrasts are corruption vs. incorruption (v. 420, dishonor vs. glory (v. 43), weakness vs. power (v. 43), living "soul" (literal translation) vs. life-giving spirit (v. 45), of the earth vs. from heaven (v. 47), of dust vs. heavenly (v. 48), the mortal vs. the immortal (v. 54). This present body is only a seed (v. 38) of the body to come. The "spiritual" body is not a pale shadow of the material world we now know; the opposite is true. The resurrection body is the fulfillment of what God intends for our present body. It is the material fulfilled, not dematerialized.

What icons are not idols?

Exo20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Dt4:15 Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire:
Dt4:16 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,
Dt4:17 The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air,
Dt4:18 The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth:

Although these commandments were given to Moses for the Israelites, Christian gentiles were not exempted from these rules, as Christians has the same God as the Israelites.

Exodus 25: 18 And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work you shall make them at the two ends of the mercy seat. 19 Make one cherub at one end, and the other cherub at the other end; you shall make the cherubim at the two ends of it of one piece with the mercy seat. 20 And the cherubim shall stretch out their wings above, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and they shall face one another; the faces of the cherubim shall be toward the mercy seat.

God told the Israelites to make a likeness of a thing that is in heaven above. Did God break his own rule here?

We do not worship or serve icons. We only worship and serve God alone. Likewise, the Israelites did not worship the cherubim that God told them to make.

Artists make likenesses of things in heaven and on earth every single day. Are they breaking the Second Commandment? If no, why not?

 

[Shiranui117]

right, so Mary was a sinner....not perfect or immaculate as some believe.

Where are you getting that from? Do you honestly think it's a sin to pick up a dead bird that hit your window and throw it into the woods?

giving birth highlighted the state of 'uncleaness' or 'sinfulness' of the woman, and the purification was something different...it wasnt 'only' about ritual impurity.

Can a house be "sinful"? Can it commit a sin or be guilty of a sin?

Leviticus 14:44 then the priest shall come and look; and indeed if the plague has spread in the house, it is an active leprosy in the house. It is unclean.

A house can be unclean without committing any sort of sin. Why can't the same be true of Mary?

Lev 12:2-4 ‘In case a woman conceives seed and does bear a male, she must be unclean seven days; as in the days of the impurity when she is menstruating she will be unclean. 3 And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin will be circumcised. 4 For thirty-three days more she will stay in the blood of purification

if it was due to hygiene, why was the length of purification different depending on the gender of the child??

giving birth to a boy was ceremonially unclean for 7 days, with an additional 33 days required for her purification. But if the child was a girl, then the mother was considered unclean for 14 days, requiring 66 days more for purification.

I think something more then simple hygiene is behind this difference.

You're right. It could be gender-based double-standards in the OT.

 

[BornAgain]

You don't understand 1 Corinthians 15, I'm afraid. Also, way to throw out all the Resurrection accounts when Jesus rose in His human body. The tomb was EMPTY. Thomas put his hands and fingers into Jesus' wounds. Jesus was raised in His old human body. His body was glorified and transfigured like how it was on Mount Tabor in Matthew 17, but it was still His human body

This was your statement before. "Jesus rose in His human body." and repeated again "Jesus was raised in His old human body."
Emphasize the word "HUMAN BODY"

Can you explain this part, please? I'm not sure why you're saying this. Especially the bolded. Why would saying that Jesus rose in the same body as He had before be denying the resurrection of the dead?

Yes, Jesus Christ was risen in the same body as He had before, except now His body was glorified and transformed, no longer mortal, but immortal, no longer bearing the consequences of our Fall, but being redeemed to His Divine Nature, transformed and deified.

Now, this is your statement today. If you compare your two statements, you would see the inconsistency of your interpretation of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

BEFORE YOU WROTE: "Jesus rose in His human body." and repeated again "Jesus was raised in His old human body."

NOW YOU WROTE: "Yes, Jesus Christ was risen in the same body as He had before, except now His body was glorified and transformed, no longer mortal, but immortal"

Now, tell me who can not understand 1 Corinthians chapter 15?

Was there any changes from the old human body of Christ to the resurrected body of Christ?

Again, this is your statement: "Yes, Jesus Christ was risen in the same body as He had before, except now His body was glorified and transformed, no longer mortal, but immortal,"

EMPHASIZE THE WORDS: "EXCEPT NOW" OR SHOULD WE SAY, "EXCLUDING FROM NOW ON". WHAT ARE WE EXCLUDING FROM NOW ON? THE OLD HUMAN BODY OF CHRIST? YES! IF WE DO, THEN THERE MUST BE CHANGES THAT HAPPENED DURING THE "BEFORE" AND THE "EXCEPT NOW". SO, "BEFORE", CHRIST HAD A HUMAN BODY, "EXCEPT NOW HIS BODY WAS GLORIFIED AND TRANSFORMED" ACCORDING TO YOU.

NOW, MY QUESTION IS, WHEN DID THIS CHANGES HAPPENED, THE "BEFORE" AND THE "EXCEPT NOW"? AT THE RESURRECTION!

SO, HOW CAN YOU EVEN THINK THAT CHRIST RESURRECTED IN HIS OLD BODY?