Mary, Jesus' mother

[Christina83]

Is it proper to address prayers to Mary as intercessor?

 

[Katzpur]

I don't believe it is. I don't believe Mary to be in any better position than anyone else who has died to be able to hear our prayers or to intercede on our behalf.

 

[Kathryn]

I don't see a problem with it at all. Mary is the mother of Jesus - and God chose her because of her virtue and character. Hebrews tells us clearly that we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses - the saints who have gone on before us - and Revelation tells us that the saints surround the throne praying and interceding for us.

I don't see why we WOULDN'T ask them, including Mary, to pray for us, just as we ask our friends and family to pray for us. Intercession is intercession.

By the way, when Catholics pray "to" saints - it is NOT worship. Worship and prayer are not the same thing. Prayer is communication, not worship. We may use prayer TO worship - but it can also be simply a form of communication.

I think the problem could come with those who pray to saints RATHER than realizing that they can and should also pray directly to God. And of course, only worship God.

 

[rsd]

Is it proper to address prayers to Mary as intercessor?

Absolutely!

 

[Katzpur]

I don't see why we WOULDN'T ask them, including Mary, to pray for us, just as we ask our friends and family to pray for us. Intercession is intercession.

But if you want to ask you friends and family to pray for you, you can't just wish it or think it and hope they can read your mind. You have to actually communicate to them in some way, either verbally or in written form or something. What evidence (or even suggestion) have we been given that the dead can hear us talk to them or know when we're silently directing our thoughts to them? Aren't you just basing your opinion on the desire that it be the case? It seems to me that only God could do that.

 

[idea]

But if you want to ask you friends and family to pray for you, you can't just wish it or think it and hope they can read your mind. You have to actually communicate to them in some way, either verbally or in written form or something. What evidence (or even suggestion) have we been given that the dead can hear us talk to them or know when we're silently directing our thoughts to them? Aren't you just basing your opinion on the desire that it be the case? It seems to me that only God could do that.

We only "pray" to God, but there are other forms of communication besides prayer... we communicate with the Spirit for instance. I know of many people who have had spiritual experiences within the temple and at home regarding departed loved ones. Angels are real, we know of many instances of communicating with angels - it is communicating, we just don't call it "prayer". Joseph talked with his deceased brother - church history has many accounts of people talking with those who have gone beyond the veil...

When I contemplate the feminine divine, I generally think upon Heavenly Mother rather than Mary (Mary calls herself "a handmaid" and so I don't think she is our Mother). I think there have been times where the guidance I have received has felt very feminine / nurturing / comforting / mother-like... other spiritual experiences have come with a different personality attached if that makes sense... not prayer - but certainly an exchange of thoughts... it's a different form of communication than it is with God, but it is something sacred, very personal, and beautiful.

She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her. ~ Proverbs 3:18

 

[Kathryn]

Katzpur, to me it seems obvious that those saints who have gone on before us are in some sense cognizant of earthly happenings, and can intercede for us before the throne of God. I believe that eternal life/heaven/the afterlife stands outside of linear time as we understand it, so they are there with God, and they know what is happening here, and are interested in it, and can pray for us.

Revelation 8: 3Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar before the throne. 4The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of the saints, went up before God from the angel’s hand.

Hebrews 11 and 12:

32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were put to death by stoning;[e] they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.
39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect. 1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith.

Revelation 6: 9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[e] were killed just as they had been.

Romans 8: 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people.

First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:1–4)

Many Christians believe in the communion of the saints - and that communion involves those saints who have gone on before us.

 

[idea]

I Have a Question - Ensign Mar. 1988

Is there any truth to the idea that we have guardian angels who watch over and protect us?


03224_000_008...Just what do angels do when they “appear and minister unto men?” The scriptures show that they:
—announce and testify of events pertaining to God’s work and glory (see Matt. 1:20–21; 28:1–6; Luke 1:11–20; 2:8–14; Rev. 14:6ff; D&C 88:92–110);


—preach the gospel and minister “unto the children of men, to make manifest concerning the coming of Christ” (Moro. 7:22; see also Moses 5:58);


—declare “the word of Christ unto chosen vessels of the Lord, that they may bear testimony of him” (Moro. 7:31; see also Mosiah 3:1–27);


—bring to earth “their rights, their keys, their honors, their majesty and glory, and the power of their priesthood” (D&C 128:21; see also 27:12; 110:11–16; JS—H 1:68–70);


—protect and guide the servants of God in times of trouble so that they may accomplish his purposes (see Acts 5:18–20; Dan. 3:28; 1 Ne. 3:29; Hel. 5);


—bring comfort, instruction, and warnings to faithful individuals in times of need (see Gen. 16:7; Ex. 23:20–23; Matt. 2:13, 19–20; 1 Ne. 11:14–15:30; Alma 8:14–18).


Who are these angels? The Lord has revealed that “there are no angels who minister to this earth but those who do belong or have belonged to it.” (D&C 130:5.) ...


President Joseph F. Smith gave us some insight about angels who minister to those on the earth:
“When messengers are sent to minister to the inhabitants of this earth, they are not strangers, but from the ranks of our kindred, friends, and fellow-beings and fellow-servants. The ancient prophets who died were those who came to visit their fellow creatures upon the earth. They came to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; it was such beings—holy beings if you please—who waited upon the Savior and administered to him on the Mount. The angel that visited John, when an exile, and unfolded to his vision future events in the history of man upon the earth, was one who had been here, who had toiled and suffered in common with the people of God. … In like manner our fathers and mothers, brothers, sisters and friends who have passed away from this earth, having been faithful, and worthy to enjoy these rights and privileges, may have a mission given them to visit their relatives and friends upon the earth again, bringing from the divine Presence messages of love, of warning, or reproof and instruction, to those whom they had learned to love in the flesh.” (Gospel Doctrine, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1970, pp. 435–36.)


But do we each have a particular “guardian angel” to accompany us through mortality?
Guardian angels are referred to in various Church leaders’ recorded blessings, experiences, and sermons. In a blessing he pronounced upon Newel K. Whitney in October 1835, the Prophet Joseph Smith said, “Angels shall guard [his] house and shall guard the lives of his posterity.” (The Personal Writings of Joseph Smith, ed. Dean C. Jessee, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1984, p. 62.) In June 1844, in a meeting in the Seventies Hall in Nauvoo, the Prophet related a dream he had had, in which, he said, “I thought I was riding out in my carriage, and my guardian angel was along with me.” (History of the Church, 6:461.) In July 1854, Elder Orson Hyde spoke of Moroni as “the guardian angel of America.” (Journal of Discourses, 6:369.)
Since the early days of the Church, angels have continued to minister to the Lord’s faithful servants. In a priesthood session of general conference in 1968, President David O. McKay shared an experience from his mission in Scotland:


“Following a series of meetings at the conference held in Glasgow, Scotland, was a most remarkable priesthood meeting. I remember, as if it were yesterday, the intensity of the inspiration of that occasion. Everybody felt the rich outpouring of the Spirit of the Lord. …
“During the progress of the meeting, an elder on his own initiative arose and said, ‘Brethren, there are angels in this room. …’


“President James L. McMurrin, president of the European Mission, arose and confirmed that statement by pointing to one brother sitting just in front of me and saying, ‘Yes, brethren, there are angels in this room, and one of them is the guardian angel of that young man sitting there,’ and he designated one who afterward became a patriarch. …
“Pointing to another elder, he said, ‘And one is the guardian angel of that young man there. …’ Tears were rolling down the cheeks of both of these missionaries—not in sorrow or grief, but as an expression of the overflowing Spirit. Indeed, we were all weeping.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1968, p. 86.)


In a general conference in 1973, President Harold B. Lee told of receiving blessings from an unseen heavenly messenger:
“I was suffering from an ulcer condition that was becoming worse and worse. We had been touring a mission; my wife, Joan, and I were impressed the next morning that we should get home as quickly as possible. …
“On the way across the country, we were sitting in the forward section of the airplane. Some of our Church members were in the next section. As we approached a certain point en route, someone laid his hand upon my head. I looked up; I could see no one. That happened again before we arrived home, again with the same experience. Who it was, by what means or what medium, I may never know, except I knew that I was receiving a blessing that I came a few hours later to know I needed most desperately.
“As soon as we arrived home, my wife very anxiously called the doctor. … He called me to come to the telephone, and he asked me how I was; and I said, ‘Well, I am very tired. I think I will be all right.’ But shortly thereafter, there came massive hemorrhages which, had they occurred while we were in flight, I wouldn’t be here today talking about it.” (Ensign, July 1973, p. 23.)
President Lee also promised the youth of the Church the help of “a guardian angel of God”:
“You youth of today, we voyage together. … It may be a storm where Nature’s fury is unleashed or it may be a mental or an emotional storm that threatens shipwreck. Whatever the occasion or the cause, you may by faith, intensified by fasting or ‘after long abstinence’ like Paul, have standing by your side during ‘that night’ of turmoil a ‘guardian angel’ of God ‘whose you are and whom you serve.’” (Decisions for Successful Living, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1973, pp. 79–80.)

 

[idea]

continued... (just because no one ever actually clicks the link

How are we to interpret such references? Many years ago, Elder John A. Widtsoe addressed the question of whether or not each individual has a “guardian angel”:
“Undoubtedly angels often guard us from accidents and harm, from temptation and sin. They may properly be spoken of as guardian angels. Many people have borne and may bear testimony to the guidance and protection that they have received from sources beyond their natural vision. Without the help that we receive from the constant presence of the Holy Spirit, and from possible holy angels, the difficulties of life would be greatly multiplied.
“The common belief, however, that to every person born into the world is assigned a guardian angel to be with that person constantly, is not supported by available evidence. … An angel may be a guardian angel though he come only as assigned to give us special help. In fact, the constant presence of the Holy Spirit would seem to make such a constant, angelic companionship unnecessary.
“So, until further knowledge is obtained, we may say that angels may be sent to guard us according to our need; but we cannot say with certainty that there is a special guardian angel, to be with every person constantly.” (Improvement Era, April 1944, p. 225.)
In our own day, President Joseph Fielding Smith and Elder Bruce R. McConkie both acknowledged that help may come from ministering angels at critical times in our lives, but that the true “guardian angel” for each individual on the earth is the power and direction available through the Light of Christ and the Holy Ghost. (See Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954, 1:54; and Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 2d ed., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966, pp. 341–42.)
Hence, the available evidence seems to show that:
(1) We each have constant access to a type of guardian influence through the Light of Christ and the Holy Ghost.
(2) Ministering angels are sometimes sent to guide, comfort, protect, and instruct the Lord’s servants and other faithful individuals in times of need.
(3) Angels who minister in our behalf—whether seen or unseen—may include departed loved ones who are aware of our circumstances and are concerned about our welfare.
(4) Faith is a critical element in the ministry of angels.

(Old Testament | 2 Kings 6:16 - 17)
16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.
17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

I think we are all surrounded by much more than we know...

 

[Katzpur]

Katzpur, to me it seems obvious that those saints who have gone on before us are in some sense cognizant of earthly happenings, and can intercede for us before the throne of God. I believe that eternal life/heaven/the afterlife stands outside of linear time as we understand it, so they are there with God, and they know what is happening here, and are interested in it, and can pray for us.

Actually, I think they can pray for us, too, but I tend to think that their prayers for us are as a result of their overall awareness of what we're going through and not because they can read our minds and know our thoughts. I really don't know, though. I guess I'm contradicting myself because I've talked (out loud) to my mother on two or three occasions after she died almost two years ago, and I hope she could hear me, so I guess I'm open to the possibility. I think my main area of disagreement would be with the use of the word "saint" since I believe the word, as we see it in the Bible, means something different than it means to the Catholics, for instance. I believe "saints" are all who follow Jesus Christ (hence, "Latter-day Saints"). I don't believe that "sainthood" is something the Church (mine or anybody elses) can confer upon someone and deny to someone else. If I was going to ask someone to pray for me, it would just as likely be my own mother and it would be Jesus' mother. I can't imagine that anybody's mother would care more about me than my own, or have a more vested interest in my happiness.

 

[Kathryn]

Actually, I think they can pray for us, too, but I tend to think that their prayers for us are as a result of their overall awareness of what we're going through and not because they can read our minds and know our thoughts. I really don't know, though. I guess I'm contradicting myself because I've talked (out loud) to my mother on two or three occasions after she died almost two years ago, and I hope she could hear me, so I guess I'm open to the possibility. I think my main area of disagreement would be with the use of the word "saint" since I believe the word, as we see it in the Bible, means something different than it means to the Catholics, for instance. I believe "saints" are all who follow Jesus Christ (hence, "Latter-day Saints"). I don't believe that "sainthood" is something the Church (mine or anybody elses) can confer upon someone and deny to someone else. If I was going to ask someone to pray for me, it would just as likely be my own mother and it would be Jesus' mother. I can't imagine that anybody's mother would care more about me than my own, or have a more vested interest in my happiness.

I understand what you're saying, and personally I don't see that there's anything wrong with talking with your mom and asking her to pray for you.

I also do believe though that many people have an immediate, negative reaction to the idea of praying to saints, as if it were a form of worship rather than simply communication, when they often haven't really thought through what Catholics really mean by the practice.

 

[Christina83]

If I go to the bank and ask to open an account to the guy at the front counter, he will direct me to someone else at the Service desk. Why???? because it's not his job to open new accounts!!!
What is the role of the saints? are they there to listen to our prayers? Is God not powerful enought to listen to all of our prayers? I don't think so! God never delegated this type of communication to anyone, because he wants us to communicate with him, to worship him and cultivate a personal relationship with him.
I don't talk to my husband's secretary if I want to communicate with him, tell him that I love him and if he can buy me some flowers on the way home.

Jesus Christ said: “You should pray like this: ‘Our Father in heaven, . . . ’” So prayers are to be addressed to the Father. Jesus also said: “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one can come to the Father except through me. If you ask for anything in my name, I will do it.” (Matt. 6:9; John 14:6, 14, JB) Thus Jesus ruled out the idea that anyone else could fill the role of intercessor.

 

[JacobEzra.]

If I go to the bank and ask to open an account to the guy at the front counter, he will direct me to someone else at the Service desk. Why???? because it's not his job to open new accounts!!!
What is the role of the saints? are they there to listen to our prayers? Is God not powerful enought to listen to all of our prayers? I don't think so! God never delegated this type of communication to anyone, because he wants us to communicate with him, to worship him and cultivate a personal relationship with him.
I don't talk to my husband's secretary if I want to communicate with him, tell him that I love him and if he can buy me some flowers on the way home.

Jesus Christ said: “You should pray like this: ‘Our Father in heaven, . . . ’” So prayers are to be addressed to the Father. Jesus also said: “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one can come to the Father except through me. If you ask for anything in my name, I will do it.” (Matt. 6:9; John 14:6, 14, JB) Thus Jesus ruled out the idea that anyone else could fill the role of intercessor.

lol are you saying its Jesus' job to pray for us then?

And is the "Our Father" the only prayer you pray then?

 

[JacobEzra.]

But if you want to ask you friends and family to pray for you, you can't just wish it or think it and hope they can read your mind. You have to actually communicate to them in some way, either verbally or in written form or something. What evidence (or even suggestion) have we been given that the dead can hear us talk to them or know when we're silently directing our thoughts to them? Aren't you just basing your opinion on the desire that it be the case? It seems to me that only God could do that.

You talk as if the spiritual is the same as the physical

 

[Kathryn]

If I go to the bank and ask to open an account to the guy at the front counter, he will direct me to someone else at the Service desk. Why???? because it's not his job to open new accounts!!!
What is the role of the saints? are they there to listen to our prayers? Is God not powerful enought to listen to all of our prayers? I don't think so! God never delegated this type of communication to anyone, because he wants us to communicate with him, to worship him and cultivate a personal relationship with him.
I don't talk to my husband's secretary if I want to communicate with him, tell him that I love him and if he can buy me some flowers on the way home.

Jesus Christ said: “You should pray like this: ‘Our Father in heaven, . . . ’” So prayers are to be addressed to the Father. Jesus also said: “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one can come to the Father except through me. If you ask for anything in my name, I will do it.” (Matt. 6:9; John 14:6, 14, JB) Thus Jesus ruled out the idea that anyone else could fill the role of intercessor.

Do you ever pray for others? Why or why not?

 

[Charity]

I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
John 16:23-24 Whatever ye shall ask the Father in my name, He will give it to you.

 

[Villager]

Mary is the mother of Jesus

Was his mother, biologically. But that counts for nothing, as Jesus himself said, repeatedly. Mary is like anyone else's mother.

- and God chose her because of her virtue and character.

God chose her because she was betrothed to a man of the appropriate lineage.

Hebrews tells us clearly that we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses

Not literally, though. The witnesses are those found by reading Scripture.

Revelation tells us that the saints surround the throne praying and interceding for us.

Reference?

 

[Kathryn]

I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
John 16:23-24 Whatever ye shall ask the Father in my name, He will give it to you.

Do you ever pray for anyone else or ask anyone to pray for you?

 

[Villager]

Do you ever pray for anyone else or ask anyone to pray for you?

Not the deceased.

 

[Kathryn]

Was his mother, biologically. But that counts for nothing, as Jesus himself said, repeatedly. Mary is like anyone else's mother.

Reference?

God chose her because she was betrothed to a man of the appropriate lineage.

Mary was more than just a woman betrothed to a man of appropriate lineage.


From Luke 1:

26 In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”
29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God.


34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”

35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[b] the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail.” 38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.


41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. 45 Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her!”


46 And Mary said:
“My soul glorifies the Lord
47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48 for he has been mindful
of the humble state of his servant.
From now on all generations will call me blessed,
49 for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
holy is his name.

God chose Mary for many reasons, including her purity, humility, submission to Him, and strength of character.

Not literally, though. The witnesses are those found by reading Scripture.

This seems like a lot of twisting to avoid what the scripture is clearly saying. I'll repeat it for you so you can see how clear it is:

Hebrews 11

Faith in Action

1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.
5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.”[a] For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11 And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she[b] considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.
13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.
17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[c] 19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau in regard to their future.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Joseph’s sons, and worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff.
22 By faith Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and gave instructions concerning the burial of his bones.
23 By faith Moses’ parents hid him for three months after he was born, because they saw he was no ordinary child, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict.
24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter. 25 He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26 He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.
29 By faith the people passed through the Red Sea as on dry land; but when the Egyptians tried to do so, they were drowned.
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell, after the army had marched around them for seven days.
31 By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.[d]
32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were put to death by stoning;[e] they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground. 39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Hebrews 12

1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles.

The people who lived by faith are the witnesses. And they were also all dead when Paul was speaking to the Hebrews. It is obvious that he is saying that they are surrounding us as witnesses.