Mary, Jesus' mother

[Villager]

A less ambiguous translation is this one:

'Who, then, will condemn them? Not Christ Jesus, who died, or rather, who was raised to life and is at the right side of God, pleading with him for us!' Ro 8:34-35 GNB

The 'right side' refers to the active power of God, which cannot be denied. The pleadings of anyone else can be denied.

 

[Pegg]

Did God ask anyone to pray to Mary...or any other person for the matter?

I dont think so.

Prayer is something that he reserves for himself alone.... he is our God, no one else.

 

[Villager]

he is our God

Whose?

 

[Kathryn]

Did God ask anyone to pray to Mary...or any other person for the matter?

I dont think so.

Prayer is something that he reserves for himself alone.... he is our God, no one else.

Prayer is communication, not worship. Worship is worship.

Don't confuse the two.

God does not want us to WORSHIP anyone other than Him.

 

[Kathryn]

Why out of several people who felt it unnecessary to pray to anyone other than God should I be the one singled out?
My stance is Jesus in the intercessor for me to get to God, the Father, In other words Jesus opens the door to the throne room and takes me before the presence of His Father.....He is not praying the prayer for me, I do that myself, I just want to mention Jesus because He is the one who made it posssible for me to boldly come into the presence of God.....That is why Jesus in my intercessor....No I don't think it is scriptural to ask deceased people to pray. I hope this clearly explains my stance on this. Anyone can pray to whoever they wish, it is their own relationship with God, and I have mine.......Hope we are cool on this, thank you end of discussion on my part.

Charity, I am not "singling you out." I've been responding to several other people on the thread as well.

However, this is a debate forum and you've logged your opinion and comments on this thread publically, so they're open for public discussion. That's all I'm doing.

No need to get defensive or take it personally. I'm not.

 

[Villager]

Prayer is communication, not worship

How does one know which one a Catholic is doing?

 

[Kathryn]

How does one know which one a Catholic is doing?

That's between the Catholic and God. And neither one has to validate those prayers to you or anyone else.

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

Prayer and worship are not the same thing.

Prayer is simply communication. When we pray, we may also worship, but all prayer does not include worship.

It is wrong to worship anyone but God.

I am sorry, but I disagree. I personally believe that prayer is an act of worship.

 

[Kathryn]

I am sorry, but I disagree. I personally believe that prayer is an act of worship.

You may personally worship when you pray.

Sometimes Catholics worship when they communicate (pray). But other times they are simply communicating. Not all prayer is worship for Catholics.

Of course, you may only worship when you pray - and that's between you and God. But why would you feel you can know and judge the content and meanings of the prayers of others?

 

[Villager]

That's between the Catholic and God.

My point precisely. Catholics cannot deny that Catholics worship Mary.

 

[Kathryn]

My point precisely. Catholics cannot deny that Catholics worship Mary.

I guess that some Catholics may worship Mary. But that's not Catholic doctrine. If they are worshipping Mary, then they are not in line with what their Church teaches.

 

[Villager]

There is a difference between official doctrine and local practices, particularly in Third World countries.

 

[Kathryn]

There are differences between Southern Baptist churches as well. What's your point?

 

[Villager]

There are differences between Southern Baptist churches as well

Do they say one thing, but do another?

 

[Kathryn]

Do they say one thing, but do another?

From my personal experience, I can say HELL YES.

 

[Katzpur]

My point precisely. Catholics cannot deny that Catholics worship Mary.

Of course they can. Most of them do.

 

[Villager]

From my personal experience, I can say HELL YES.

So is it unreasonable to say that Catholics do likewise?

 

[Kathryn]

Of course they can. Most of them do.

Worship and venerate are not the same thing.

Worship and prayer are not the same thing.

I believe that most non Catholics do not realize that they're not working with the same definitions and therefore do not really understand Catholic doctrine.

Besides that, non Catholic Christians are inundated with misinformation about Catholicism from their own denominations and groups.

 

[Kathryn]

So is it unreasonable to say that Catholics do likewise?

I've never met anyone who had a full understanding of their own particular church's doctrines - or who practiced them perfectly.

Or for that matter, who practiced their OWN belief set perfectly.

Catholicism is the largest church/group of Christians in the world, with the widest range of societies practicing Catholicism. The diversity within Catholicism is amazing - truly the embodiment of the doctrine of the communion of the saints.

 

[Villager]

So is it reasonable to say that Catholics do as SBs are reckoned to do. At least SBs do not provide statues and votive candles, rosaries and shrines to give cause, just cause, surely, to believe that Mary is the subject of inappropriate attention. Were the Vatican to compel abolition of such appurtenances, as it did with the greatest expedition when women priests appeared on the horizon, these suspicions would doubtless vanish.