Christina83
Chrissie
Is it proper to address prayers to Mary as intercessor?
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Is it proper to address prayers to Mary as intercessor?
But if you want to ask you friends and family to pray for you, you can't just wish it or think it and hope they can read your mind. You have to actually communicate to them in some way, either verbally or in written form or something. What evidence (or even suggestion) have we been given that the dead can hear us talk to them or know when we're silently directing our thoughts to them? Aren't you just basing your opinion on the desire that it be the case? It seems to me that only God could do that.I don't see why we WOULDN'T ask them, including Mary, to pray for us, just as we ask our friends and family to pray for us. Intercession is intercession.
But if you want to ask you friends and family to pray for you, you can't just wish it or think it and hope they can read your mind. You have to actually communicate to them in some way, either verbally or in written form or something. What evidence (or even suggestion) have we been given that the dead can hear us talk to them or know when we're silently directing our thoughts to them? Aren't you just basing your opinion on the desire that it be the case? It seems to me that only God could do that.
Is there any truth to the idea that we have guardian angels who watch over and protect us?
03224_000_008...Just what do angels do when they “appear and minister unto men?” The scriptures show that they:
—announce and testify of events pertaining to God’s work and glory (see Matt. 1:20–21; 28:1–6; Luke 1:11–20; 2:8–14; Rev. 14:6ff; D&C 88:92–110);
—preach the gospel and minister “unto the children of men, to make manifest concerning the coming of Christ” (Moro. 7:22; see also Moses 5:58);
—declare “the word of Christ unto chosen vessels of the Lord, that they may bear testimony of him” (Moro. 7:31; see also Mosiah 3:1–27);
—bring to earth “their rights, their keys, their honors, their majesty and glory, and the power of their priesthood” (D&C 128:21; see also 27:12; 110:11–16; JS—H 1:68–70);
—protect and guide the servants of God in times of trouble so that they may accomplish his purposes (see Acts 5:18–20; Dan. 3:28; 1 Ne. 3:29; Hel. 5);
—bring comfort, instruction, and warnings to faithful individuals in times of need (see Gen. 16:7; Ex. 23:20–23; Matt. 2:13, 19–20; 1 Ne. 11:14–15:30; Alma 8:14–18).
Who are these angels? The Lord has revealed that “there are no angels who minister to this earth but those who do belong or have belonged to it.” (D&C 130:5.) ...
President Joseph F. Smith gave us some insight about angels who minister to those on the earth:
“When messengers are sent to minister to the inhabitants of this earth, they are not strangers, but from the ranks of our kindred, friends, and fellow-beings and fellow-servants. The ancient prophets who died were those who came to visit their fellow creatures upon the earth. They came to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; it was such beings—holy beings if you please—who waited upon the Savior and administered to him on the Mount. The angel that visited John, when an exile, and unfolded to his vision future events in the history of man upon the earth, was one who had been here, who had toiled and suffered in common with the people of God. … In like manner our fathers and mothers, brothers, sisters and friends who have passed away from this earth, having been faithful, and worthy to enjoy these rights and privileges, may have a mission given them to visit their relatives and friends upon the earth again, bringing from the divine Presence messages of love, of warning, or reproof and instruction, to those whom they had learned to love in the flesh.” (Gospel Doctrine, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1970, pp. 435–36.)
But do we each have a particular “guardian angel” to accompany us through mortality?
Guardian angels are referred to in various Church leaders’ recorded blessings, experiences, and sermons. In a blessing he pronounced upon Newel K. Whitney in October 1835, the Prophet Joseph Smith said, “Angels shall guard [his] house and shall guard the lives of his posterity.” (The Personal Writings of Joseph Smith, ed. Dean C. Jessee, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1984, p. 62.) In June 1844, in a meeting in the Seventies Hall in Nauvoo, the Prophet related a dream he had had, in which, he said, “I thought I was riding out in my carriage, and my guardian angel was along with me.” (History of the Church, 6:461.) In July 1854, Elder Orson Hyde spoke of Moroni as “the guardian angel of America.” (Journal of Discourses, 6:369.)
Since the early days of the Church, angels have continued to minister to the Lord’s faithful servants. In a priesthood session of general conference in 1968, President David O. McKay shared an experience from his mission in Scotland:
“Following a series of meetings at the conference held in Glasgow, Scotland, was a most remarkable priesthood meeting. I remember, as if it were yesterday, the intensity of the inspiration of that occasion. Everybody felt the rich outpouring of the Spirit of the Lord. …
“During the progress of the meeting, an elder on his own initiative arose and said, ‘Brethren, there are angels in this room. …’
“President James L. McMurrin, president of the European Mission, arose and confirmed that statement by pointing to one brother sitting just in front of me and saying, ‘Yes, brethren, there are angels in this room, and one of them is the guardian angel of that young man sitting there,’ and he designated one who afterward became a patriarch. …
“Pointing to another elder, he said, ‘And one is the guardian angel of that young man there. …’ Tears were rolling down the cheeks of both of these missionaries—not in sorrow or grief, but as an expression of the overflowing Spirit. Indeed, we were all weeping.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1968, p. 86.)
In a general conference in 1973, President Harold B. Lee told of receiving blessings from an unseen heavenly messenger:
“I was suffering from an ulcer condition that was becoming worse and worse. We had been touring a mission; my wife, Joan, and I were impressed the next morning that we should get home as quickly as possible. …
“On the way across the country, we were sitting in the forward section of the airplane. Some of our Church members were in the next section. As we approached a certain point en route, someone laid his hand upon my head. I looked up; I could see no one. That happened again before we arrived home, again with the same experience. Who it was, by what means or what medium, I may never know, except I knew that I was receiving a blessing that I came a few hours later to know I needed most desperately.
“As soon as we arrived home, my wife very anxiously called the doctor. … He called me to come to the telephone, and he asked me how I was; and I said, ‘Well, I am very tired. I think I will be all right.’ But shortly thereafter, there came massive hemorrhages which, had they occurred while we were in flight, I wouldn’t be here today talking about it.” (Ensign, July 1973, p. 23.)
President Lee also promised the youth of the Church the help of “a guardian angel of God”:
“You youth of today, we voyage together. … It may be a storm where Nature’s fury is unleashed or it may be a mental or an emotional storm that threatens shipwreck. Whatever the occasion or the cause, you may by faith, intensified by fasting or ‘after long abstinence’ like Paul, have standing by your side during ‘that night’ of turmoil a ‘guardian angel’ of God ‘whose you are and whom you serve.’” (Decisions for Successful Living, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1973, pp. 79–80.)
How are we to interpret such references? Many years ago, Elder John A. Widtsoe addressed the question of whether or not each individual has a “guardian angel”:
“Undoubtedly angels often guard us from accidents and harm, from temptation and sin. They may properly be spoken of as guardian angels. Many people have borne and may bear testimony to the guidance and protection that they have received from sources beyond their natural vision. Without the help that we receive from the constant presence of the Holy Spirit, and from possible holy angels, the difficulties of life would be greatly multiplied.
“The common belief, however, that to every person born into the world is assigned a guardian angel to be with that person constantly, is not supported by available evidence. … An angel may be a guardian angel though he come only as assigned to give us special help. In fact, the constant presence of the Holy Spirit would seem to make such a constant, angelic companionship unnecessary.
“So, until further knowledge is obtained, we may say that angels may be sent to guard us according to our need; but we cannot say with certainty that there is a special guardian angel, to be with every person constantly.” (Improvement Era, April 1944, p. 225.)
In our own day, President Joseph Fielding Smith and Elder Bruce R. McConkie both acknowledged that help may come from ministering angels at critical times in our lives, but that the true “guardian angel” for each individual on the earth is the power and direction available through the Light of Christ and the Holy Ghost. (See Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954, 1:54; and Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 2d ed., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966, pp. 341–42.)
Hence, the available evidence seems to show that:
(1) We each have constant access to a type of guardian influence through the Light of Christ and the Holy Ghost.
(2) Ministering angels are sometimes sent to guide, comfort, protect, and instruct the Lord’s servants and other faithful individuals in times of need.
(3) Angels who minister in our behalf—whether seen or unseen—may include departed loved ones who are aware of our circumstances and are concerned about our welfare.
(4) Faith is a critical element in the ministry of angels.
Actually, I think they can pray for us, too, but I tend to think that their prayers for us are as a result of their overall awareness of what we're going through and not because they can read our minds and know our thoughts. I really don't know, though. I guess I'm contradicting myself because I've talked (out loud) to my mother on two or three occasions after she died almost two years ago, and I hope she could hear me, so I guess I'm open to the possibility. I think my main area of disagreement would be with the use of the word "saint" since I believe the word, as we see it in the Bible, means something different than it means to the Catholics, for instance. I believe "saints" are all who follow Jesus Christ (hence, "Latter-day Saints"). I don't believe that "sainthood" is something the Church (mine or anybody elses) can confer upon someone and deny to someone else. If I was going to ask someone to pray for me, it would just as likely be my own mother and it would be Jesus' mother. I can't imagine that anybody's mother would care more about me than my own, or have a more vested interest in my happiness.Katzpur, to me it seems obvious that those saints who have gone on before us are in some sense cognizant of earthly happenings, and can intercede for us before the throne of God. I believe that eternal life/heaven/the afterlife stands outside of linear time as we understand it, so they are there with God, and they know what is happening here, and are interested in it, and can pray for us.
Actually, I think they can pray for us, too, but I tend to think that their prayers for us are as a result of their overall awareness of what we're going through and not because they can read our minds and know our thoughts. I really don't know, though. I guess I'm contradicting myself because I've talked (out loud) to my mother on two or three occasions after she died almost two years ago, and I hope she could hear me, so I guess I'm open to the possibility. I think my main area of disagreement would be with the use of the word "saint" since I believe the word, as we see it in the Bible, means something different than it means to the Catholics, for instance. I believe "saints" are all who follow Jesus Christ (hence, "Latter-day Saints"). I don't believe that "sainthood" is something the Church (mine or anybody elses) can confer upon someone and deny to someone else. If I was going to ask someone to pray for me, it would just as likely be my own mother and it would be Jesus' mother. I can't imagine that anybody's mother would care more about me than my own, or have a more vested interest in my happiness.
lol are you saying its Jesus' job to pray for us then?If I go to the bank and ask to open an account to the guy at the front counter, he will direct me to someone else at the Service desk. Why???? because it's not his job to open new accounts!!!
What is the role of the saints? are they there to listen to our prayers? Is God not powerful enought to listen to all of our prayers? I don't think so! God never delegated this type of communication to anyone, because he wants us to communicate with him, to worship him and cultivate a personal relationship with him.
I don't talk to my husband's secretary if I want to communicate with him, tell him that I love him and if he can buy me some flowers on the way home.
Jesus Christ said: You should pray like this: Our Father in heaven, . . . So prayers are to be addressed to the Father. Jesus also said: I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one can come to the Father except through me. If you ask for anything in my name, I will do it. (Matt. 6:9; John 14:6, 14, JB) Thus Jesus ruled out the idea that anyone else could fill the role of intercessor.
You talk as if the spiritual is the same as the physicalBut if you want to ask you friends and family to pray for you, you can't just wish it or think it and hope they can read your mind. You have to actually communicate to them in some way, either verbally or in written form or something. What evidence (or even suggestion) have we been given that the dead can hear us talk to them or know when we're silently directing our thoughts to them? Aren't you just basing your opinion on the desire that it be the case? It seems to me that only God could do that.
If I go to the bank and ask to open an account to the guy at the front counter, he will direct me to someone else at the Service desk. Why???? because it's not his job to open new accounts!!!
What is the role of the saints? are they there to listen to our prayers? Is God not powerful enought to listen to all of our prayers? I don't think so! God never delegated this type of communication to anyone, because he wants us to communicate with him, to worship him and cultivate a personal relationship with him.
I don't talk to my husband's secretary if I want to communicate with him, tell him that I love him and if he can buy me some flowers on the way home.
Jesus Christ said: You should pray like this: Our Father in heaven, . . . So prayers are to be addressed to the Father. Jesus also said: I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one can come to the Father except through me. If you ask for anything in my name, I will do it. (Matt. 6:9; John 14:6, 14, JB) Thus Jesus ruled out the idea that anyone else could fill the role of intercessor.
Was his mother, biologically. But that counts for nothing, as Jesus himself said, repeatedly. Mary is like anyone else's mother.Mary is the mother of Jesus
God chose her because she was betrothed to a man of the appropriate lineage.- and God chose her because of her virtue and character.
Not literally, though. The witnesses are those found by reading Scripture.Hebrews tells us clearly that we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses
Reference?Revelation tells us that the saints surround the throne praying and interceding for us.
I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
John 16:23-24 Whatever ye shall ask the Father in my name, He will give it to you.
Do you ever pray for anyone else or ask anyone to pray for you?
Was his mother, biologically. But that counts for nothing, as Jesus himself said, repeatedly. Mary is like anyone else's mother.
God chose her because she was betrothed to a man of the appropriate lineage.
Not literally, though. The witnesses are those found by reading Scripture.