Mary mother of God

[Nada]

I agree with what the Scripture says. However, I don't see anything wrong with saying the model prayer. I guess if that's the only prayer you ever prayed, and you did it repeatedly over and over, then it could end up being vain repetitiins. It would be said mindlessly, without thinking. I believe God wants us to talk to Him on a personal level, child to Father. Prayer is really about the attitude of the heart of the person saying the prayer. Sometimes people can be in such a stressful situation that they can't think of what to say to their heavenly Father. So they say the model prayer, or the 23rd Psalm. God sees into our hearts. I wouldn't judge a person's prayer unless it is directed to someone other than God.

Yes,prayer should be sincere and from the heart.Even if we do not feel that there is nothing wrong with saying the model prayer, we should remember it is a "model" prayer.This means it is an example of how one should pray.It was not meant to be literally spoken out in that way,in those words.It is showing in what way.Prayer should always be as if we are speaking to God personally as one does with a friend or family member.We do not need long repetitive words or chants while rubbing on beads.All one needs is their mind.

 

[Nada]

I agree with what the Scripture says. However, I don't see anything wrong with saying the model prayer. I guess if that's the only prayer you ever prayed, and you did it repeatedly over and over, then it could end up being vain repetitiins. It would be said mindlessly, without thinking. I believe God wants us to talk to Him on a personal level, child to Father. Prayer is really about the attitude of the heart of the person saying the prayer. Sometimes people can be in such a stressful situation that they can't think of what to say to their heavenly Father. So they say the model prayer, or the 23rd Psalm. God sees into our hearts. I wouldn't judge a person's prayer unless it is directed to someone other than God.

I hope you are having a wonderful day so far by the way.

 

[katiemygirl]

From my experience it's silly to accuse catholics of worshipping Mary, but I will say I've never been particularly thrilled about the "co-mediatrix" language. I don't think there's anything wrong with "Mother of God" or Theotokos provided it's understood in reference to the trinitarian dogma. Mostly the accusations just misunderstand it, or try to apply a logic to it that is irrelevant to actual catholic belief.

May I ask how you worship God? What acts do you perform. What would you say constitutes worship?

 

[katiemygirl]

Yes,prayer should be sincere and from the heart.Even if we do not feel that there is nothing wrong with saying the model prayer, we should remember it is a "model" prayer.This means it is an example of how one should pray.It was not meant to be literally spoken out in that way,in those words.It is showing in what way.Prayer should always be as if we are speaking to God personally as one does with a friend or family member.We do not need long repetitive words or chants while rubbing on beads.All one needs is their mind.

I don't think this is worth debating about. I've already said I agree with the Scripture you posted. However, I am not in the position to judge a person's heart, nor am I able to judge God's thinking, what He meant or didn't mean.

I totally agree with your last two sentences.

 

[katiemygirl]

I'm not criticizing anyone.I am merely explaining what the holy scriptures actually says and means.

I know.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

M*ry Mother of God.

 

[katiemygirl]

Which entails that Jesus is not the Son. Correct?

Ciao

- viole

Jesus is the Son of God!

 

[Wharton]

God is a title. The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God.

Is Mary the Mother of the Father or the Holy Spirit? No, of course she isn't. Mary is not the Mother of God. She is the Mother of Jesus. That's how she is referred to in the Bible.

You're separating his natures. That can't be done. They're united. What you propose by separating his natures is the Nestorian heresy that was dealt with in the early Church.

If the Son is God, as you state, and Mary is his mother then Mary is the mother of God, the incarnate God/man Jesus.

Once again, Mary is not the mother of the trinity.

 

[Nada]

I don't think this is worth debating about. I've already said I agree with the Scripture you posted. However, I am not in the position to judge a person's heart, nor am I able to judge God's thinking, what He meant or didn't mean.

I totally agree with your last two sentences.

Cool.One thing though If I may.No one is judging anyone,nor does anyone need to judge.It is clear what God means.We must remember that there are not many interpretations.There is only one interpretation and that is God's interpretation.

Genesis 40:8 "We both had dreams," they answered, "but there is no one to interpret them." Then Joseph said to them, "Do not interpretations belong to God? Tell me your dreams."

This is why you have those who understand because they have been blessed with grace, and an accurate knowledge, and then you have the rest that try to understand on their own using their own reasoning, but have not yet come to fully comprehend the Word of God.

 

[lovemuffin]

May I ask how you worship God? What acts do you perform. What would you say constitutes worship?

I can tell you what I do, but I wouldn't confuse that with a comprehensive definition of what constitutes worship.

- Liturgical worship: I attend eastern orthodox divine liturgy, and occasionally vespers. The divine liturgy is related to the latin mass in that they are offshoots of the same ancient eucharistic tradition. When I worship in the liturgy I participate in prayers (litanies), I venerate icons, I make prostrations, I sing hymns, I hear readings from the N.T. and I take communion.

- Prayer: I am not sure prayer is identical to worship but it seems to me that they can't easily be separated. My prayers include thanksgiving and praise which is worship. My prayers also involve veneration of icons and prostrations some of the time, and other times not

Beyond that I listen to music some time and I would consider just about everything that involves the conscious awareness of the presence of God to be worshipful in part. If I write something on a forum that I feel like expresses well my experience of the presence of God that feels like worship to me. I'm not really one to give strict definitions to words like that.

 

[katiemygirl]

The formulators of the trinitarian doctrine didn't conceive of Theos as a title, but as a being (essence, substance, οὐσία). They also described the existence of persons of that being as all dwelling fully within each other: perichoresis, following mostly John's gospel: "Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me?" Rendering the word God as a title ignores all the richness of the actual trinitarian theology. It resolves an apparent paradox, but at the expense of the actual trinitarian view.

From that perspective, it made sense to them to say that Mary is the mother of God, because in Christ "all the fullness of the Deity dwelt bodily". They still are only referring to Mary as the mother of the incarnated God, but that incarnation is fully God. "If you have seen me you have seen the Father", as Jesus said.

Jesus was both fully God and fully man. Mary was only the mother of Jesus as man, and not the mother of Jesus as God.

The Bible uses God in the title sense, and the Bible is our standard of authority, not men. Can we agree on this point?

 

[katiemygirl]

I can tell you what I do, but I wouldn't confuse that with a comprehensive definition of what constitutes worship.

- Liturgical worship: I attend eastern orthodox divine liturgy, and occasionally vespers. The divine liturgy is related to the latin mass in that they are offshoots of the same ancient eucharistic tradition. When I worship in the liturgy I participate in prayers (litanies), I venerate icons, I make prostrations, I sing hymns, I hear readings from the N.T. and I take communion.

- Prayer: I am not sure prayer is identical to worship but it seems to me that they can't easily be separated. My prayers include thanksgiving and praise which is worship. My prayers also involve veneration of icons and prostrations some of the time, and other times not

Beyond that I listen to music some time and I would consider just about everything that involves the conscious awareness of the presence of God to be worshipful in part. If I write something on a forum that I feel like expresses well my experience of the presence of God that feels like worship to me. I'm not really one to give strict definitions to words like that.

Thank you for your explanation. I appreciate your time. I will read it over a couple more times so to understand better, and then I will get back to you. You used some words I'm not really familiar with.

Can you explain the difference between worship and veneration? How do you see it?

 

[Nada]

God was never a man and God cannot die.

 

[lovemuffin]

Jesus was both fully God and fully man. Mary was only the mother of Jesus as man, and not the mother of Jesus as God.

The Bible uses God in the title sense, and the Bible is our standard of authority, not men.

The question is really about whether "God" is only a title, or if it's more than a title. My point is that to say "Jesus is fully God" implies much more than a title. After all, you wouldn't say that George Washington was "fully" the president of the United States. Titles are binary. To say that Jesus is "fully God" has traditionally implied the view that Jesus and the Father share a divine nature, which is more than titular. In the same way, "The Father is in me and I in the father" is not really something that can be made sense of only as a matter of them both sharing a title, and I'm not sure the various new testament passages that refer to Jesus' divinity could be understood that way. So I'm unsure exactly how you conceive of Jesus and the Father, in terms of their natures beyond the question of having a particular title

 

[viole]

Jesus is the Son of God!

So, if the son of God is God, then Mary is not the mother of Jesus, correct?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Nada]

The question is really about whether "God" is only a title, or if it's more than a title. My point is that to say "Jesus is fully God" implies much more than a title. After all, you wouldn't say that George Washington was "fully" the president of the United States. Titles are binary. To say that Jesus is "fully God" has traditionally implied the view that Jesus and the Father share a divine nature, which is more than titular. In the same way, "The Father is in me and I in the father" is not really something that can be made sense of only as a matter of them both sharing a title, and I'm not sure the various new testament passages that refer to Jesus' divinity could be understood that way. So I'm unsure exactly how you conceive of Jesus and the Father, in terms of their natures beyond the question of having a particular title

"The Father is in me and I in the father" This means Jesus is God's representative here on earth and does as his Father commands.It is a spiritual union.It speaks of this in John 17:21 "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me."

Here Jesus is saying he wants all to be one with he and the father.This obviously does not mean literally.It speaks of a spiritual union.Notice too that the holy spirit is never mentioned in this union.

 

[Wharton]

God was never a man and God cannot die.

Then you are not ransomed.

 

[Nada]

Then you are not ransomed.

You are mislead.

 

[katiemygirl]

The question is really about whether "God" is only a title, or if it's more than a title. My point is that to say "Jesus is fully God" implies much more than a title. After all, you wouldn't say that George Washington was "fully" the president of the United States. Titles are binary. To say that Jesus is "fully God" has traditionally implied the view that Jesus and the Father share a divine nature, which is more than titular. In the same way, "The Father is in me and I in the father" is not really something that can be made sense of only as a matter of them both sharing a title, and I'm not sure the various new testament passages that refer to Jesus' divinity could be understood that way. So I'm unsure exactly how you conceive of Jesus and the Father, in terms of their natures beyond the question of having a particular title

Our heavenly Father is God. Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit is God. Yet, there are not three Gods. There is one God in three distinct persons.

I believe that our God is triune. Father, Son and Holy Spirit share a divine nature. They are equal in essence ( sharing the same attributes and characteristics. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the ONE God. Each has a different role. Jesus is always submissive to the Father. This doesn't make Him an unequal or lesser God. It is simply the structure of the Godhead. That's where I'm coming from. Hope it helps.

 

[katiemygirl]

You are mislead.

No, it is you who are misled. Wharton is correct.

"In the beginning was the word and the word was with God, and the word was God." John 1:1

Your NWT is a corrupt, sectarian paraphrase. They have inserted "Jehovah" into the New Testament 227 times, where Jehovah NEVER in any extant Greek manuscript appears. They have removed words. The NWT cannot be trusted.