Master Path - Gary Olsen

[Fandango]

AC7 -

Sure, Sri Gary could spend funds (which are none other than those donated or earned from MP dues or material purchases by chelas after all) fighting in court or defending against each and every claim made against him online and elsewhere, but from what I gleaned from the seminar in Sep-2010, he has no desire to do so.

Whoa there! So you're saying other claims have been made against him outside of these web forums? Do tell!

Going to court brings it all out into the open - the business practices, how money and 'donations' are handled, income from sales of materials, the tax exempt status, plagiarism, gifts, dope smoking, his self-appointed 'mastership', his years in Eck, etc.

You really think he has the stones to go to court and defend these allegations and risk losing all that money and 'credibility', having former members reveal in detail how it all really works? I don't.

Maybe it will all come to pass that it's all for real, and all will know that he's a good guy with the ultimate path to enlightenment...
:biglaugh:

 

[Violet Jones]

In the UK it is interesting that the laws against slander and libel are much more strictly enforced, than in the US, from what I understand.

Sure, Sri Gary could spend funds (which are none other than those donated or earned from MP dues or material purchases by chelas after all) fighting in court or defending against each and every claim made against him online and elsewhere, but from what I gleaned from the seminar in Sep-2010, he has no desire to do so.

Yes, unfortunately for Gary, we have a little thing called the first amendment here in the U.S. We are publicly expressing opinions and providing logic to support these opinions. Our free speech is protected.

Oh, I absolutely LOVE that Gary "has no desire to" defend himself in court or elsewhere. :spit: It could only hurt him more to do so, Peacemaker.

First, there is not much "defense" to present when you look at everything that appears on the pages of MasterPath materials and when you listen to the recordings. It's all on record. Particularly the fear-inciting bird flu seminar.

Second, by going to court he would be opening himself up to scrutiny when it comes to tax and other legal matters. Publicity and legal investigation would probably not be Gary's friend!

I'm here purely because I take pleasure in sharing views with other interested seekers (as indeed there are here: Violet, Zeeker etc) and talking about what matters most to me: connecting with the inner master and attaining spiritual liberation.

Just want to clarify for you that I'm not a "seeker". I found what I was looking for several years back, and I am content and at peace spiritually and otherwise.

Yes, back last year I was the one who requested help with locating on Google Maps the grove of trees, that are apparently at the regisitered location of the MP parsonage - I've still to read actual documentation that would give the truth of what this is all about, one way or the other - all we have are anonymous (not using their real names) claims on this and other forums. Similarly the tanning booth comments make me chuckle - I've been walking in sunny Califor-nigh-ay and new mexico previously - seems to be plenty of sunshine to get a natural tan if you wanted - why bother with booths - can we get a sneak-pic maybe? :beach:

Well, you apparently don't consider eyewitness accounts "fact". That's fine. But as you very well know, former students have been to Gary's "parsonage" and saw the tanning bed with their own eyes. Evidently you think they're lying? Maybe you could get the sneak-pic yourself next time you're in the states. Or hasn't Gary invited you to the MP "spiritual retreat" yet?

As far as the olive trees, they are fact. The costs of olive trees can be independently verified, as well as the cost of caring for them in the desert. What is not known at this time is where the olives are going. Are they being sold? If so, is that money reported to the IRS? We don't know and have not claimed to know. Additionally, is there a reason MasterPath stopped filing 990s after 2005? We don't know, but are interested to know. Would you care to ask your master about this so we can get the answer from the horse's a--...I mean mouth? Give him a call.

 

[PeaceMaker21]

Whoa there! So you're saying other claims have been made against him outside of these web forums? Do tell!

Fandango -

Glad you're being sharp as a tack here - what a difference a missing word can make! - Good catch - I meant to say "online HERE (as in the Religious Forums thread) and elsewhere (other forums)" - glad I'm not under cross-examination.

So for the record, until I discovered these online forums last year, I'd never heard a bad word spoken against Sri Gary - certainly to date, no-one has ever said anything to me in person, via mail or phone, nor have I read, heard, nor seen anything in any other kind of media.

Violet -

I'm not saying all the claims made here and on CDF are lies - Nothing is more frustrating to me than a lack of information, hence my "i'm all lfor transparency" remark I made previously...that's why I am after facts: about actual people, actual places, actual names.

If the allegators (is that what you call people who make allegations? ) have nothing to fear, why don't they step forward with their real identities? - what possibly reason could they have to be scared - are they scared of being sued? Won't your First Amendment protect their rights?

- PM21

 

[Violet Jones]

If the allegators (is that what you call people who make allegations? ) have nothing to fear, why don't they step forward with their real identities? - what possibly reason could they have to be scared - are they scared of being sued? Won't your First Amendment protect their rights?

- PM21

Frankly, I don't use my real name anywhere online, for professional and personal reasons. Like for instance a job working with people all over the U.S., stalker ex-boyfriends, just plain general privacy, etc. etc.

No, I'm not a bit scared of the big bad wolf or of being sued. Nor should anyone else be - there is no worthy case to pursue. Privacy is not about fear. It's about being smart. Haven't you heard any internet horror stories?

So if you want everyone's real identities...how about you go first.

 

[Fandango]

Fandango -

So for the record, until I discovered these online forums last year, I'd never heard a bad word spoken against Sri Gary - certainly to date, no-one has ever said anything to me in person, via mail or phone, nor have I read, heard, nor seen anything in any other kind of media.

Well yes, that's all true because he didn't want the attention of skeptics who question the validity of his 'credentials' and what he's doing...and those who leave the path are 'banished from the kingdom' (so to speak) and communication with them is strongly discouraged because it will bring you bad karma, correct? Keep it big enough to make a chunk of money, but small enough so as not to draw attention from the outside.

I came to know about MP because a friend dated a person who was 'new on the path' and was breaking it off and moving away to CA to 'be closer to the Sri' and waxed poetic about it. My friend thought it all ridiculous and stupid, even sad, but this is the kind of behavior that Olsen and his minions can influence on those who are gullible enough to believe it.

It certainly sounds to me like the man is living a lie, and so are his followers...I bet some of them even know it and are starting to question. Like George Costanza's character once said in an episode of 'Seinfeld', "it's not a lie if you believe it"...

I wonder if he and the inner circle are working an exit plan and/or establishing 'MasterPath v2.0' and grooming a successor, and who knows if any IRS inquiries have been made as a result of the complaint forms sent. Time will tell.

 

[end_of_faith]

"Anami's Living Promise" ...... (Anami is the sanskrit for nameless, which is supposedly the "highest" god of all - so much so that it cannot be given name or form).

I've searched several online Sanskrit dictionaries, and so far there is no "Anami" in Sanskrit. It may be a regional dialest version of another word adapted over time in Eastern culture, most likely by RSSB.

But in staying with the definition PM21 offered above: "supposedly the "highest" god of all - so much so that it cannot be given name or form." It appears to have been given both: a name and form through a painting commissioned by Gary Olsen: "the living promise of the highest god of all without name or form"

That painting is just another MP/Gary anomaly, and I was never moved to purchase a photo of it. For some of us, the oddity of Gary's appearance in it is telling. As well as the fact that he would request such a painting in the first place, and then sell it to chelas for profit. Yes, he is a modern day profit-eer.

IF (and it's a BIG IF) what is conveyed in the painting is true, why is form given to what is described as beyond name and form?

The picture is seen by some as the 'living reality' that MP is a personality cult: the worship of Gary's personality (aka Gar-ji...his 'inner' glittering twin).

The picture is also seen by some of us as nothing more than a self-aggrandizing advertisement for subliminally guiding and influencing 'chelas' into believing or identifying with something as true without proof or verification. That being that Gary Olsen is the heir apparent in a line of successors that have garnered recognition as having attained some level of spiritual status.

In the "line-up" if I'm not mistaken, and with a bit of half-linking (am not able to post full links yet), it goes:

1 - Lao Tse - founder of Daoism / Taoism, satguru - (the Dao being the Chinese name for Shabda, the Word) - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lao_tse - ca. 6?th - 4?th Century BC

The Dao is the Chinese name for the "way."

The "Shabda" is the Radha Soami name for "Word".

Also, if you research the origin of some of the Eastern terms ascribed to Sanskrit, you'll learn that not all are Sanskrit, but are Arabic originating in Pakistan and influenced in India by Islam and Iraq by combining Arabic and Sanskrit.

8 - Shiv Dayal Singh - aka Soami-ji - param sant, sat guru, founder of Radhasoami - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiv_Dayal_Singh - 1818 - 1878

9 - Baba Sawan Singh Ji - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawan_Singh - 1858 - 1948

10 - Sri Gary Olsen - param sant, sat guru, founder of MasterPath - 1948 - ?

Is this just a history lesson, or am I making a point? Maybe both - intellectually I'm interested in the history of all of 1 - 10 - especially #10 ! - but spiritually, it's the truth behind the power behind all of 1 - 10 and beyond, that I'm most interested in.

The history of the RSSB that is missing in your self-proclaimed "param sant sat guru" Olsen's painting of himself as "Anami's living promise" is as follows:

1. Baba Jaimal Singh Ji The founder of Radha Soami Satsang Beas. Ministry lasted from 1884 to 1903.

2. Sadhar Bahadar Jagat Singh Ji. Ministry lasted from 1948 to 1951.

3. Huzur Maharaj Charan Singh (guru) Ji, full name Charan Singh Grewal. Ministry lasted from 1951 to 1990.

4. Baba Gurindu Singh Dhillon- Radha Soami Satsang Beas. Ministry began 1990 to present day.

The "line up" as you call it should be Twitchell, Gross, and Olsen. That is Gary Olsen's "history."

Gary was never an initiate of RSSB. Does RSSB recognize Gary Olsen as the heir apparent in their line of gurus? Perhaps you should also inquire if they view his "representation" of their teachings as "the original teachings of the saints."

And while you're at it, in your: "intellectually I'm interested in the history of all of 1 - 10 - especially #10 ! - but spiritually, it's the truth behind the power behind all of 1 - 10 and beyond, that I'm most interested in." why don't you contact Eckankar and inquire if they recognize Gary Olsen as having received the "God Plane" initiation from Darwin Gross? Since Darwin is no longer alive, we can't very well ask him. And if even we could ask him, it would matter little to me personally since I don't (and never did) view Darwin as a "guru, master, saint" or whatever and I definitely do not view Klemp or Twitchell as gurus, masters or saints. But your master and his wife were very into the 'nine silent ones' and the 'golden wisdom temples' and all the imaginary saints of Twitchellian history.

It is said that the inner master takes the same form as the current living outer (complete with golden moustache - or not, if it is shaved off), when it is witnessed with the third eye, upon one's soul's entry into the astral plane, so it can be recognized - only then can we tell if we're dealing with a genuine satguru or a bogus fake - - - - the 3rdi can open before death (translation) - drugs will do it, but are not advocated whatsoever on MP- only the natural opening of the 3rdi guarantees a permanently changed awareness that no-one can take away from one's soul.

And it has been proven that the mind through repetition of the same information can create whatever it wants to believe. Seeing an inner picture of a glittering light body that looks exactly like your outer master is no guarantee of anything, and certainly not that you are dealing with a "genuine satguru." What is nameless and formless remains nameless and formless. It is wisdom (the real power behind truth) that is realized, not a glorified image of your outer master.

:yes: i know, sounds far-out doesn't it? - but what if it's true? :bow: more later...

It sounds and appears like what it is: a bogus fake. Some of us have already put in our time on the spinning wheel of MP chasing the proverbial "what if it's true" carrot, and no longer fear going where 'angels fear to tread.'

Our conclusion is that Gary Olsen is not a Sat Guru, Param Sant, or even an ethical human being. He is a just an ordinary man with a super-size ego cloaked by a closely guarded state of feigned humility for the appearance of his chelas; a God complex disguised as a humble servant who is the most served of all; and a master manipulator of a person's most vulnerable desire in seeking something greater than themselves.

 

[end_of_faith]

MSIA (pronounced messiah:- a dead give-away), yet another group on the same bent. On msiafacts.org site I see they give their reassurances, like Gary, that their product is not a cult. They openly sell photos of their leader (msia.org), John Roger (another former Eck chela), in various portrait poses and sizes. What would you want his photo for I wonder; must be an extra target for on the dart board? I also note that John Roger is a homosexual who has come under fire for seducing male devotees, as well as the usual plagiarism charges from Eck, and lives like an extravagant spendthrift while preaching poverty to his followers. Just another narcissistic human cashing in on the guru business and out to control others as their subjects, with ideas stolen from those unconscionable deceivers who have done it all before.

I never knew that was the pronunciation of MSIA. Too funny (and sad, disappointing, and predictable) what these guys do in their insatiable need for playing "God". Seems quite a few wanna-be gurus have sprung from Eckankar. I guess that's their version of "following in the footsteps of their master." :bow:

Have you read the book "Life 102: What to do when your guru sues you" by Peter McWilliams?

In my opinion, and take-away from reading the book: A very revealing, dark, and enlightening view into the not-so-enlightened teachings, methods, antics, manipulation, power-tripping, negativity, and all-around BS of yet another ex-Eckist egomaniacal nut job promulgating the messianic God-complex syndrome as the "Truth".

I suppose that after defecting from MSIA, the MP appears to be harmless. But I think that is what makes the MP even more subtly deceptive and insidious. I now see the MP as the same game with different players, and more subtle violations of the very "lower world tendencies" that the leaders claim to have transcended.

Also, couldn't agree more with your assessment of the guru business.

That’s interesting EndOfFaith: you can actually get “cross-credits” from your initiations in MSIA, Eck and Radha towards your discourse in the MasterPath. You would have thought a chela would have learned their lesson the first time round alright. Must have got bored with one and needed a change of scenery, not having “snapped-out-of-it” at all, still remaining caught up in their “shabda” trance? How would that work; just a matter of replacing the old photos with those of your new guru and contemplating him? Not loosing your initiation status would be just the incentive for some to “change horses in midstream”? Maybe a defected chela will rationalize that they will have yet another 90% discount off their karma by accepting a second Master, leaving just 1% left for them to work on! Does Gary have a recruitment strategy in place of accepting pillaged members from the competition? Just goes to show that Gary, or any other Master, can make up whatever rules they like, as long as they serve their purposes.

Yep. Kinda like commissioning a painting with Sawan's hand on Gary's shoulder depicting Gary as the successor in RS lineage, even though MP claims no lineage, and even though Olsen was never an initiate of RS, and even though Olsen does not and never has followed their rigid vows of initiation.

I guess having a painted depiction of "inner" spiritual lineage exempts "outer" Gary from having to articulate and justify his brazen spiritual narcissism in written language. And I also guess his physical outer depiction of his supposed "inner" spiritual lineage is one of those nuomenal subtleties that isn't found in plagarized teachings.

So Joyce and Dennis acquired such appointments on the initiation hierarchy, from Gary. Were their 9th level initiations received when MasterPath first started; what levels are they at now? Was Dennis a former Eck chela, like Joyce and Gary? Where does the future Living Master-elect, Richard, sit on the initiation ladder, and where did he “migrate” from? This Richard must be a promising younger disciple, with sufficient ambition to keep the organization afloat and build up his own retirement package? (Well, a Living Master can’t take their hard earned karma cash with them to the next lifetime; they need to enjoy and spend it all before they translate, Right?)

Yes, yes, don't know/don't care, and repeat pronunciation of the word MSIA....

 

[end_of_faith]

AC7 -
Let's get to more facts - as I've always said - along with some explanations about what's really going on - that's another reason why I'm here, and what I'm after...

Your guru is not Sat or Sant. That is our conclusion and realization based on real-life experience (inner and outer).

Your 'master's' man-made religion is being denounced for what it is: a trap and lie.

The extolling of your 'master's' self-proclamation of the 'exalted spiritual' title of "Param Sant Sat Guru" is being revealed for what it is: a bogus fake.

 

[zizzer]

Hello and thanks Ben D for the warm welcome.
:yes: i know, sounds far-out doesn't it? - but what if it's true? :bow: more later..
- PM21

:no::no:

Well PM21....It is not true...He is not true.....This is not a true path.... To quote from the article in the link provided on this site. "Why would a Sat Guru want to argue with himself?" That is what Gary does when he changes his statements to the opposite in the next consecutive seminar, and if, as a chela, you get confused :sorry1: it's your fault for not finding the "middle road".

You are probably referring to "provisional faith". A seeker ascribes to provisional faith until the second initiation just to see "what if". Beyond the 2nd initiation, you must make that commitment. So, I am wondering if you are above a 2nd initiation, if so, you are supposed to be beyond provisional faith and you are proselyzing.

How many one-on-one talks have you conducted? Do you believe, as you have been lead by the nose to believe, that you are accruing good karmas (like the fruballs at the top of this box) and recognition from your chosen master? What if it is not true? Would the opposite not be true? Perhaps you are accruing BAD KARMA :yes: by preying on unenlightened individuals:drool:. We have established on this site the X-chelas are convinced that Gary is a charlatan, so why are you asking what if......? I do not accept Gary as Sant.

 

[Anticult7]

anticult? me too Nonsense. You are in a nasty cult and continually demonstrate how much you have been programmed by it. You are convincing no one but yourself
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anticult7
Peacemaker 21-I enjoy how you think that you are anywhere near the same intelligence level as Violet. She will continue to disassemble your every feeble attempt to present your fantasies about Olsen as divine truth like killing a fly with a fly swatter. Any reasonable person would say 'uncle' but I'm guessing you'll continie to post Olsen cult BS and think you are having some kind of intelligent discourse.
AC7 -

Glad to bring you enjoyment - even if its source is a little misplaced - misplaced because, for me, this is certainly not about thinking I am more intelligent or an intellectual super-heavy-weight, nor about putting anyone down, (nor building anyone up-Nonsense-you try to build Olsen up under the ineffective guise of seeking truth. You have been told the truth but you refuse to accept it If there are things which in my view, are misrepresentations, misunderstandings or confusions about the MP and the light and sound teachings,I think its in the interests of "the greater good" to present corrections, just as those who are making the allegations about abuse of funds, deserve to be heard (in a court of law if it should ever come to that) so that the Greater Good and Justice is ultimately served. [BI'm told by friends Olsen is right now being scrutinized by the IRS. I'm sure he will try to cover his tracts but the IRS has FORENSIC people that will see through it and prosecute the scam. But you will buy that saints always are misunderstood by the world and either crucified, boiled in oil or in this case, stopped by the IRS[/B]

In the UK it is interesting that the laws against slander and libel are much more strictly enforced, than in the US, from what I understand. It is Olsen who slanderes and he knows he would get his a** kicked if he went after anyone because all the others would all testify against him

Sure, Sri Gary could spend funds (which are none other than those donated or earned from MP dues or material purchases by chelas after all) fighting in court or defending against each and every claim made against him online and elsewhere, but from what I gleaned from the seminar in Sep-2010, he has no desire to do so. As has been said, he knows that he would face a firestorm and lose and then be countersued and receive a tremendous amount of negative PR.

I'm here purely because I take pleasure in sharing views with other interested seekers (as indeed there are here: Violet, Zeeker etc) and talking about what matters most to me: connecting with the inner master and attaining spiritual liberation. Nonsense again- you are here as an apologist for Olsen and yet you don't know him at all. You just project your unresolved daddy stuff onto him and are under the illusion that your own truth can be found in another human being...a tragically flawed one at that

As I said on CDF, I think we can all do this civily and without resorting to name-calling...so one thing everyone can rely on me for is: not to name-call.You don't name call you just try to invalidate all the malicious evil that Olsen has done to his former "highet initiates". Much nastier than name calling PM21 You continually ask for proof but nothing can shake you off your cult programming right now..

Yes, back last year I was the one who requested help with locating on Google Maps the grove of trees, that are apparently at the regisitered location of the MP parsonage - I've still to read actual documentation that would give the truth of what this is all about, one way or the other - all we have are anonymous (not using their real names) claims on this and other forums. You were given Olsen's address and challenged to go visit him to see what kind of welcome you would get. You just didn't have ther courage to do itSimilarly the tanning booth comments make me chuckle - I've been walking in sunny Califor-nigh-ay and new mexico previously - seems to be plenty of sunshine to get a natural tan if you wanted - why bother with booths - can we get a sneak-pic maybe? Go there yourself. It looks like Palm Springs to Morongo Valley to Mecca Rd. Visit the parsonage, if Olsen is the loving master you claim he is he should welcome you with open arms, right?

Let's get to more facts - as I've always said - along with some explanations about what's really going on - that's another reason why I'm here, and what I'm after...Nonsense. You are defending a person you don't know and think he is God incarnate. He is a con man incarnate, hopefully soon to be an incarcerated con man stripped of the wealth he gained by lying and taking advantage of sincere people

let's keep on keepin on till the truth is revealed - PM21 The truth has been revealed, you just refuse to accept it. You have drunk the Cool Aid and are trying to convince others to do the same. No thanks!

 

[zizzer]

Gary describes himself as Swateh Saint. MP dictionary defines Swateh Saint-"A natural-born Saint; credentials indescribable; attained credentials in many previous lives; begins journey at the third eye; first Master in a new line; reenters the world in order to reestablish purity of truth and Sound; Self-illuminating; appointed by Anami Purush; does not require outer innitation; He will live many years as a devotee before manifesting the Path and His mission; most humble earmark is absolute purity and devotion to Surat Shabda Yoga." :sarcastic

Is this an example of a Swateh Saint? Does anyone else have other definitions?

 

[Violet Jones]

It sounds like anyone could claim to be a swateh saint, because who would know the difference? If one of Gary's chelas said to him, "Guess what, I'm a swateh saint and I'm gonna start my own path now", what could he say? Isn't that precisely what Gary did?

Couldn't we all make claims about the spiritual accomplishments of our past incarnations? Someone should join MasterPath and say "I was a 7th initiate of Paul Twitchell in my last life". Would Gary honor it? How could he disprove it?

If Gary is a swateh saint, then where is the evidence of absolute purity and devotion to Surat Shabd Yoga? Is vegetarianism part of the tradition? What about drugs/external substances? Just wondering.

 

[PeaceMaker21]

Hi again everyone,

As there is still a bit of dialogue going on, I am presuming that some are still interested in what present-chelas such as myself, have to say in response to some of the questions asked on this thread...maybe others are just watching me like some lab-rat in an experiment to gauge the effects of "drinking the kool-aid" on my consciousness - I am not really bothered by judgements, such as @anticult7's recent remarks (am I nasty or am I just refusing to accept anonymous allegations as fact?).

Earlier I mentioned I would try to back-track in reverse time order but I'll probably jump about randomly instead. If I miss anything I'm sure it will be asked again and maybe another current-chela or two (if I'm not the only one here now!) will chip in at some point....

In the September seminar, with the "opening up of cyberspace" announcement, it's true: chelas were certainly requested not to prosletyze on-line whatsoever - they were also requested not to "detractor-bash" - and it is not my intention to do either - I can simply speak about things I have seen, people I know or knew personally, and experiences that I have had, and that's all I intend to continue to do here...

@violet - I take your point about confidentiality for the many reasons you describe - certainly I was not asking you to reveal your identity - I was just making the point that anonymous allegations carry no legal validity unless somehow verifiable - maybe that's what the IRS are currently doing behind the scenes, checking MP out, who knows? - Time will tell whether their forensics teams unearth any tax or other forms of wrong-doing or if MP is given the all-clear - I suspect the latter.

I may have mentioned previously on CDF that the former pseudo-guru (of the MP chela who died in 2003 when the propellor on his 2-seater snapped and his plane crashed) was exposed in 1997 in a documentary on NBC dateline which I see someone has recently posted on youtube.com/watch?v=ZHFKt7-GUOY for those who want to research it. (the pseudo-guru in question subsequently committed suicide in 1998.)

In that pseudo-guru's case, a lot of evidence was compiled against him, and numerous lawsuits were filed, none of which, deterred the man from pedling his brand of so-called-enlightment, until his dying day.

and, as @still_kicking on CDF pointed out, even if no legal crimes were provable, what social or moral or spiritual crimes are being committed by SGO? If he isn't actually who he claims he is, then the answer is "many" - but if he is who he says he is, it changes everything...

so to the issue of "prove you're a swateh saint / param sant / sat guru" - if lineage is not a reliable indicator of authenticity, then what other things could be used as surefire indicators - I ask this as an open question, to promote investigation, not to cease it...

more soon...

 

[stillsearching]

Every time I see this thread in the string of Today's posts I think of Gary Larson, the guy that created the comic The Far Side.

 

[remembering you]

Peacemaker, it may be that proof is in the beholder. I don't believe that anything I can share with you will change your mind about Gary Olsen and since I am not willing to reveal my real name or others, you would not be able to verify the information that I gave you anyway. All I can say is that there is a growing body of former chelas...not just a few...who spent a minimum of 10 years or more on MP and hold both Gary and his path as false. Maybe you have never expereinced Gary or Joy's emotional abuse, but I have and others have as well. I trust my experience. This man is not a saint nor does he demonstrate saintly behavior. I will continue to warn others that not only is Gary a false guru, but he is a mean one. Now you can't verify any of that if you haven't been close in enough to see what goes on behind the scenes. So you can say that my information means nothing or you can say that you trust your own experience too and we are at an impass. Current chelas tend to take emotional abuse and dress it up, calling it "spiritual redirection." All that being said, beyond former MP chelas there are many members of RSSB, Ek and various flavors of Christianity who find Gary's assertion that he is the incarnation of all great leaders of all the above paths absolutely offensive. If you are making the assertion that Gary is a true guru, the burden of proof falls on you. What is YOUR proof that he is what he says he is? (and you have to give me more than MP dogma...that doesn't count) I will weigh that against the proof that I have that he's a con-artist with no moral compass at all when it comes to bilking his chelas for his own personal comfort, power and wealth!

 

[end_of_faith]

the one I was thinking of was a previous posting by SoulPatriot on CDF:

So that's the quote I was actually remembering - the satguru referenced above is the inner form - and any references to "worship at the feet of" etc are purely metaphoric in this sense.

SGO has specifically clarified on many occassions that there should never be any actual worshipping (e.g. touching his shoes, bowing down etc) of the outer guru gary in any way - he is just a mortal man acting as a channel (in a manner similar to, but not identical to psychics who trance-channel an ascended master's spirit) for the inner masterpower - the shabda spirit of life...

PM21, seems you overlooked one of the most important quotes that SoulPatriot shared on CDF in your response to Violet.

These excerpts are taken from Truth and the Seeker, Vol. V, Number 8, "Sat Guru Bahkti (Part B)"

" The stage of 'Resignation to the Will of the Sat Guru" is very high, but also very difficult. Of Course, many say that they have resigned themselves to the sat guru; but as a matter of fact, one who has completely surrendered himself to the guru, holds no one dearer than him. Only those who have reached this stage can make this claim."

"They who love the sat guru, do not want to hear anything else except his glory and greatness. He who has faith in the Master sees no blemish in him. If he were to become critical towards the guru he would lose his feeling of love for the Guru. One should therefore never try to find fault with the sat guru. Only he who behaves like this will be a gurumukh, and reach the final stage one day."

" A true gurumukh is he who looks upon the Sat Guru as the Lord God, and does not question any of his actions nor let his faith in him suffer."

You say that the above quotes are referencing the "inner sat guru" and not the outer master. On the MP, master, guru, sat guru, saint, etc are all interchangeable.

The definition of gurumukh is one who follows the dictates of the guru.

In your description of the "Anami's living promise" line-up, Gary is titled as a "param sant sat guru." You can spin it however you want, but the above quotes directly influence the chela in [metaphorically] bowing or surrendering to the "outer master" and his directives far more than you are willing to acknowledge.

Gary is a channel for his own personality, power-tripping, and manipulation. Was it the "shabda-spirit of life" that told chelas they were colossal fools if they did not prepare for the imminent bird flu pandemic according to your outer master's fear mongering nonsense? Was it the "shabda-spirit of life" that told chelas at the next seminar they did not understand his message when they followed his directives? Was it the "shabda-spirit of life" that told chelas not to be friends with people who had left the path after 10 yrs? Or that those people were on messianic trips? Was it the "shabda-spirit of life" that edited the Bird Flu tape to create the impression that his fear-mongering talk was moderate and balanced? Or is that just the work of a man who thinks he's god of the universe? I think the latter.

In that pseudo-guru's case, a lot of evidence was compiled against him, and numerous lawsuits were filed, none of which, deterred the man from pedling his brand of so-called-enlightment, until his dying day.

And your "master" will continue peddling his brand of so-called-enlightenment until his dying day too. They all do. No amount of evidence to the contrary will convince a believer. That has been proven throughout time, over and over again.

and, as @still_kicking on CDF pointed out, even if no legal crimes were provable, what social or moral or spiritual crimes are being committed by SGO? If he isn't actually who he claims he is, then the answer is "many" - but if he is who he says he is, it changes everything...

Okay, PM21, I've read your response above several times, and each time I think to myself: you've got to be kidding.

So, my question to you is "if he is who he says he is" how does that change everything?

so to the issue of "prove you're a swateh saint / param sant / sat guru" - if lineage is not a reliable indicator of authenticity, then what other things could be used as surefire indicators - I ask this as an open question, to promote investigation, not to cease it...

Why does your master Gary claim no lineage and yet, he requests a painting (and sells it to chelas) depicting "his" lineage?

Frankly, I consider your master's make-believe lineage to be an indicator of a fledgling organization and self-serving man attempting to establish itself/himself as an accepted religion/spiritual leader. You probably relate to it as 'proof' of efficacy, while some of us see it as 'proof' of illusion, delusion, egoism, and personality worship.

Why don't you enlighten us with the surefire indicators of a Swateh Saint? I am very interested in your open answer to a question meant to promote investigation of the subject.

:beach:

 

[zizzer]

Hi again everyone,
"detractor-bash" -
What the heck does this mean? Your words or his? since it's in quotes. This coined term minimizes all ernest efforts at warning the public about being recruited and duped by a confidence artist. Organized recruitment of vulnerable individuals is a moral crime. Tax-evasion is criminal. Gary stipulated to chelas in seminar that"you must pay your bills". What's good for the goose is good for the guru.

(of the MP chela who died in 2003 when the propellor on his 2-seater snapped and his plane crashed) Where was the all american guru then? Gary imparts that "negative acts are punished and positive acts are rewarded"(karma and all that). Surely this man had accepted that he was accruing good karma by servicing Gary's needs. Was death his reward? This romanticizing of death is equal to drinking kool-aid. You have minimized this poor man's death by implying he was flying a light-weight recreational craft, when I am sure it was sound, built for long range travel,and FAA approved. This may not be a criminal act but if it was in service to MP there is certainly implied liability.
Shame on you!

When I was recruited onto MasterPath, I questioned the reality of the meaning of Swateh. It really did not make sense to me. The definition I placed in the last post sounds like it was fabricated purely for agrandizing Gary's extrapolated teachings.

 

[zizzer]

It sounds like anyone could claim to be a swateh saint, because who would know the difference? If one of Gary's chelas said to him, "Guess what, I'm a swateh saint and I'm gonna start my own path now", what could he say? Isn't that precisely what Gary did? quote]

That's a gresat idea, Violet. We could start a path. Let's call it THE ORDER OF THE UNHACHED CHICKS.

We could walk around onstage and bawk like chicken ladies and claim that we were self-realized chickens. For initiations we could peck the initiates outer shell and each crack would be a closer step to enlightement. Like the crack in the cosmic egg. We were chickens in a past life. Get it. If the initiates don't get it; Well they are not enlightened until the whole egg is cracked.

It could work...but then again..it's getting late and I'm tired.

 

[Violet Jones]

Sounds good to me, zizzer. We can make it a non-profit. And anyone who criticizes our path will be seen as bigots whose eggs haven't even been fertilized yet. Anyone who tries to go against our teachings will be given strikes against them. If they try to leave, they will be warned that their eggs will not hatch for another billion years and the world will turn against them.

Like you, I'm curious about Peacemaker's "detractor-bashing" comment and where (or who) those words came from. It's funny to me that Peacemaker finds himself exempt from his "master's" requests. Proselytizing comes in many forms, some more subtle than others.

Actually I'm guessing that Gary would rather his chelas not talk about "the path" online AT ALL. And engaging with detractors is even worse than proselytizing - no matter how sugary sweet the chela is. Because for one thing, the chelas who've interacted with detractors have only prompted more damning information, and more forum pages of MasterPath critique. In other words, the chelas online are actually making it worse for Gary Olsen. That's very likely the reason behind the "master's" cyberspace directives.

 

[zizzer]

Yeah. Our mantra could only be occupied by the opening of Pictures At an Exibition, Circa Emerson, Lake, and Palmeron tape. I wish I could download that opening. Da,Da,Da, Da-Da-Da, Duh,Duh, Duh,Da,Da, Duh!!!