Matthew 25 and signs of the Second Coming

[omega2xx]

That's not true. Often the Christians are not doing good works at all but contributing to religious bigotry and intolerance through their words and deeds. They think they are Christian but they are not. That is why I quoted Matthew 7:20-23

By your own words those contributing to bigotry and intolerance are not Christians. Besides Mt 25:37 tells us that those doing these good works are righteous. Doing the right things with the wrong motives is of no value(I Cor 13:1-3). The only motive God accepts is doing something because we love God, not for some reward.

You are playing God and judging again. You don't know that although clearly you believe you do.

I have quoted Scripture, That is not judging. Actually you are the one judging. You have judged those not performing too your standard as not being Christians.

Matthew 7:1-3

Now you are judging me.

Good works makes one more sheep like, than the one who does not.

Good works does not make a goat a sheep. Good works with the right motive indicate the person is a sheep.

Many Christians are not righteous at all and many Christians are self-righteous. They are simply fooling themselves if they imagine they will attain heaven in the next world because they believe in Christ.

Now go back and read Mt 7:1-3 while looking in a mirror. The Bible CLEARLY teaches that those who believe in Jesus will go to heaven. Who are you to judge that is not true? Some believe that doing good works will qualify them for heaven. Something the Bible does not say.

1 Corinthians 1:30 if seen in context is Paul advocating belief in Christ over the world view of the Jews and Greeks.

It says no such thing. It tells us in simple,straight forward what Jesus has done for those who have made Him their Savior.

Similarly with Philippians 3:9 we have to consider the historic context where Faith in Christ is the way compared to the dogs and evil worshippers.

Again you are not understanding the verse. It is not about an historical context. Again it is in simple, straight forward language, that makes my point , not yours---righteous IS NOT derived from the law, but comes through faith in Christ.

]Matthew 23:37
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

Once again this is about good deeds, not religious bigots casting scorn and derision on peoples of other faiths who contribute to much that is good about the world.

Again you are judging those who God calls righteous. Because of your belief that good works are necessary to make one righteous, you are reading something into that passage that is not there. The good deeds done by the righteous does not even hint at derision of people of others faith.

All religions except Christianity are legalistic---one must do good to be acceptable to God to get His reward.

Christianity teaches that when one accepts Jesus as their Savior, they will do good works. Not to go to heaven but because they love God and want to please Him, and to help the needy is one thing He has told us to do.---By grace you have been saved, not of works, so no one can boast.

 

[MJFlores]

I think some of the signs were already fulfilled.

Matthew 24:4-5 (How many "Christian religions and denominations are there?)

Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.

Matthew 24:6-7 (The most publicized wars were WW I and II)

You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.

Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.

There will be famines and

earthquakes in various places.

All these are the beginning of birth pains.

I think it is about to happen.

 

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For your interest I share with you a Baha'i commentary on chapter 11 from the book of revelation. It addresses some of what you have raised.

I assume no rebuttal exists at the moment or it would have been referenced.

Commentary Revelation Chap11:- Abdu'l-Baha

In Revelation 11:1-2 it is said: "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months." (11:1)

The temple that was in Jerusalem was removed at the end of the Luke:21:12-24 part of prophecy that also covered the time that Re:11 references. The 'time of the Gentiles' that was started in Luke:21:24 includes the temple from re:4 that is a replacement for the one lost in 70AD. Saying the Lord's Prayer and repenting our sins is how a gentile is numbered as far as being a believer goes. The example the 24 Elders set in Re:4-6 verifies that the vapors coming from the altar are prayers. The prayers that Gentiles say also appear as vapor until the day the 7th trump is going to sound and on that day prayers will not help you like they would have up until the day the two witnesses are resurrected.The people who see that and give glory to God are the last people that are able to repent their sins and have it make a difference as far as where they will spend the next 1,000 years.

Luke:21:24 started the time of the Gentiles, Re:11 picks up the story when there is 42 months left where the temple in Re:4 will be the one recognized by God. The 42 months ends on the same day the two witnesses die and that gives Satan and the Beast 4 days in which they have control of Jerusalem. In those 4 days they have to erect a temple that fits the design given to Moses and a throne has to be in place. The throne is the image from Re:13 and it is the abomination mentioned in Matthew:24 and Da:11.
Satan's temple is destroyed on that day and between the destruction of the wicked and the resurrection of the people that will be alive for the 1,000 years the temple that will be in service for the 1,000 year reign.

Zec:6:12:
And speak unto him,
saying,
Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts,
saying,
Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH;
and he shall grow up out of his place,
and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
Zec:6:13:
Even he shall build the temple of the LORD;
and he shall bear the glory,
and shall sit and rule upon his throne;
and he shall be a priest upon his throne:
and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

That is the same structure as the 'house' in the verse below which means the river is as literal as it is said to be in this chapter.

Eze:47:1:
Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house;
and,
behold,
waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward:
for the forefront of the house stood toward the east,
and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house,
at the south side of the altar.

The two witnesses would be praying the same as Daniel did while in exile and they are kept alive until the appointed time and when they die the temple ceases to be a sanctuary for any person. The next 4 days has Satan being as powerful as he has ever been and that lasts only until the day of return.

By this reed is meant the Perfect Man, and the reason for His being likened to a reed is that when the latter is entirely freed and emptied of its pith, it becomes capable of producing wondrous melodies.

You are making it a lot more complicated that it needs to be. Certain condition shave to be met before God will listen to a person's prayer.

M't:5:23:
Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar,
and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
M't:5:24:
Leave there thy gift before the altar,
and go thy way;
first be reconciled to thy brother,
and then come and offer thy gift.

The 42 months and the 1260 days run side by side and they end on the same day, 4 days before the return happens. The temple is missing from Jerusalem and the two witnesses are given they courtyard to preach and Gentiles that pick up on their message will be the ones whose faith includes them as also being believers like the two witnesses but without their power which will be like having Moses being around again. Physical proof that God exists

Moreover, these songs and airs proceed not from the reed itself but from the player who blows into it. In the same way, the sanctified heart of that blessed Being is free and empty of all save God, is averse to and exempt from attachment to every selfish inclination, and is intimately acquainted with the breath of the Divine Spirit.

In this case it is a measuring tool, harps are the musical instrument used.

Re:15:2:
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire:
and them that had gotten the victory over the beast,
and over his image,
and over his mark,
and over the number of his name,
stand on the sea of glass,
having the harps of God.

The 144,000 are measured, by the time the 7th trump sounds 1/3 of all Gentiles are believers and they survive the fire that comes with the 7 vials. The two witnesses are measured and are found to also be believers. The coals from heaven part before any trump sounds is the sealing that has to be done before any trump can sound. When the 1st one sounds there is 1260 days until the two witnesses time is over, the time of protection is also over and once the two dies that will be it for believers being in the holy land until the vials are finished.

De:4:27-31:
And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations,
and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen,
whither the LORD shall lead you.
And there ye shall serve gods,
the work of men's hands,
wood and stone,
which neither see,
nor hear,
nor eat,
nor smell.
But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God,
thou shalt find him,
if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
When thou art in tribulation,
and all these things are come upon thee,
even in the latter days,
if thou turn to the LORD thy God,
and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
(For the LORD thy God is a merciful God
he will not forsake thee,
neither destroy thee,
nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

That which He utters proceeds not from Himself but from the ideal Player and from divine revelation. Hence He is likened to a reed, and that reed is like a rod; that is, it is the succour of the weak and the support of every mortal soul. It is the rod of the True Shepherd by which He guards His flock and leads it about in the pastures of the Kingdom (11:2)

The ones in the 7 Churches that have overcome their faults would be measured as being inside, the others would be outside and cannot enter until they appear before God at the Great White Throne

Then it is said that the angel addressed him, saying, "Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein"; that is, weigh and gauge. To gauge is to determine the quantity of a thing. Thus the angel said: Weigh the Holy of Holies, and the altar, and them that are worshipping therein- that is, investigate their true condition; discover their rank and station, their attainments, their perfections, their conduct, and their attributes; and acquaint thyself with the mysteries of those holy souls who abide in the station of purity and sanctity in the Holy of Holies (11:3)

The curtain that prevented believers from being as close to god as the anointed High Priest was removed when Jesus dies on the cross. Gentiles can have as close of a relationship with Christ as Daniel did by using the same prayer in Luke. The gift Gentiles will bring to Christ's temple is the one that God rejected when Cain brought an offering that would be suitable for a world that is not in sin.

"But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles." When, in the beginning of the seventh century of the Christian era, Jerusalem was conquered, the Holy of Holies- that is, the edifice that Solomon had erected- was outwardly preserved, but its outer court was seized and given over to the Gentiles (11:4)

Gentiles run the world while being under the rule of a few fallen angels, the Law they are under is the law that will convict them. When the two bruises if completed the 10 Commandments are parked as mankind is sinless and immortal and they need to come under the law given in Re:21. Fallen angels take over when the 5th trump sounds and from that point there is 42 months (1260) days until the return happens.

"And the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months"; that is, the Gentiles will seize and subdue Jerusalem for forty-two months, or 1,260 days, or- each day being equivalent to a year- 1,260 years, which is the duration of the Qur'anic Dispensation. For according to the text of the Bible each day is a year, as it is said in Ezekiel 4:6: "thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year" (11:5)

That applies to the 70 weeks prophecy from Da:9. It does not apply to what is in Da:11 or what is written in Revelations. 42 months is based on months of 30 days each. The 1st woe in Re:8 lasts 5months which is 150 days. That alone shows your version of counting is flawed. It is also flawed in that the time, times and 1/2 a time from Da:7 is referencing 3 1/2 days from Re:11 rather than some mythical 3 1/2 years that simply doesn't exist anywhere in prophecy.

 

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This is a prophecy concerning the duration of the Dispensation of Islam, when Jerusalem was trodden underfoot, meaning that it was dishonoured, while the Holy of Holies remained preserved, guarded, and honoured. This state of affairs continued until the year 1260. This 1,260 years is a prophecy concerning the advent of the Bab, the "Gate" leading to Baha'u'llah, which took place in the year A.H. 1260. As the period of 1,260 years has been completed, the Holy City of Jerusalem is now beginning to prosper and flourish again. Anyone who saw Jerusalem sixty years ago, and who sees it again today, will recognize how it has come to prosper and flourish and how it has regained its honour (11:6)

Not even close or you could work out the year of the return. When the iron/clay starts it is only allowed ashort time.John and Jesus were given 3 1/2 years to the day, Satan won;t be allowed any more than that. Those days are clearly listed and they mean just what they say they as fae as days and hours go. This is referencing 1 hour and 1 lay, literally.

Re:18:17:
For in one hour so great riches is come to nought.
And every shipmaster,
and all the company in ships,
and sailors,
and as many as trade by sea,
stood afar off,

Re:18:8:
Therefore shall her plagues come in one day,
death,
and mourning,
and famine;
and she shall be utterly burned with fire:
for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

This is the outward sense of these verses of the Revelation of John, but they also have an inward interpretation and a symbolic meaning, which is as follows. The religion of God consists of two parts: One is the very foundation and belongs to the spiritual realm; that is, it pertains to spiritual virtues and divine qualities. This part suffers neither change nor alteration: It is the Holy of Holies, which constitutes the essence of the religion of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha'u'llah, and which will endure throughout all the prophetic Dispensations. It will never be abrogated, for it consists in spiritual rather than material truth. It is faith, knowledge, certitude, justice, piety, high-mindedness, trustworthiness, love of God, and charity. It is mercy to the poor, assistance to the oppressed, generosity to the needy, and upliftment of the fallen. It is purity, detachment, humility, forbearance, patience, and constancy. These are divine qualities. These commandments will never be abrogated, but will remain in force and effect for all eternity. These human virtues are renewed in every Dispensation; for at the close of each Dispensation the spirit of the law of God, which consists in the human virtues, vanishes in substance and persists only in form (11:7)

By revelation of John I assume you mean John the Baptist through his Disciple known as the Beloved Disciple? If not then how valid is any argument that can't identify who brought the message in the first place. Perhaps it would be worth looking at the women mentioned in Re:12and how they fit in with the 'seed of Eve' from Ge:3:15.

That being said, resurrection is a physical return from the literal grave.

Ec:3:20:
All go unto one place;
all are of the dust,
and all turn to dust again.

Ec:12:7:
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Job:14:12-17:
So man lieth down,
and riseth not:
till the heavens be no more,
they shall not awake,
nor be raised out of their sleep.
O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave,
that thou wouldest keep me secret,
until thy wrath be past,
that thou wouldest appoint me a set time,
and remember me!
If a man die,
shall he live again?
all the days of my appointed time will I wait,
till my change come.
Thou shalt call,
and I will answer thee:
thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
For now thou numberest my steps:
dost thou not watch over my sin?
My transgression is sealed up in a bag,
and thou sewest up mine iniquity.

Thus, at the end of the Mosaic Dispensation, which coincided with the advent of Christ, the true religion of God vanished from among the Jews, leaving behind a form without a spirit. The Holy of Holies was no more, but the outer court of the Temple- which signifies the outward form of the religion- fell into the hands of the Gentiles. In the same way, the very heart of the religion of Christ, which consists in the greatest human virtues, is no more, but its outward form has remained in the hands of the priests and monks. Likewise, the foundation of the religion of Muhammad is no more, but its outward form remains in the hands of the Muslim divines (11:8)

Really?? The Bible doesn't promote that at all. Perhaps that is the Rothschild version of the Bible.

Those foundations of the religion of God, however, which are spiritual and consist in human virtues, are never subject to abrogation but are eternal and everlasting, and are renewed in every prophetic Dispensation (11:9)

The bruise to the heel was the cross,the other bruise will be just as literal. Longish post but it's all there.

The second part of the religion of God, which pertains to the material world and which concerns such things as fasting; prayer; worship; marriage; divorce; manumission; legal rulings; transactions; and penalties and punishments for murder, assault, theft, and injury, is changed and altered in every prophetic Dispensation and may be abrogated- for policies, transactions, punishments, and other laws are bound to change according to the exigencies of the time (11:10)

If the first part is flawed then the 2nd part can no be any different.

to be continued

Good start. Let me catch up, it won't take long.

 

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Commentary part 2:

Briefly, what is meant by the term "Holy of Holies" is that spiritual law which can never be changed or abrogated, and what is meant by the "Holy City" is the material law which may indeed be abrogated; and this material law- the Holy City- was to be trodden underfoot for 1,260 years (11:11)

And the only mistake God made was not knowing the difference between a day and a year. After that how wierd can my version possibly sound?? lol

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and three-score days, clothed in sackcloth." By these two witnesses are intended Muhammad the Messenger of God and 'Alí the son of Abú Talib. In the Qur'an it is said that God addressed Muhammad, saying, "We made Thee a witness, a herald, and a warner";[26] that is, We have established Thee as one Who bears witness, Who imparts the glad-tidings of that which is to come, and Who warns of the wrath of God. A "witness" means one by whose affirmation matters are ascertained. The commandments of these two witnesses were to be followed for 1,260 days, each day corresponding to a year. Now, Muhammad was the root and 'Alí the branch, like Moses and Joshua. It is said they were "clothed in sackcloth", meaning that they appeared to wear not a new raiment but an old one. In other words, they would initially appear to be of no consequence in the eyes of other peoples and their Cause would not seem new. For the spiritual principles of the religion of Muhammad correspond to those of Christ in the Gospel, and His material commandments correspond for the most part to those of the Torah. This is the symbolism of the old raiment. (11:12)

Again it is like saying God doesn't have a clue what he is talking about and He needs some men to straighten this mess out.What could possibly go wrong??

"These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth." These two Souls have been likened to olive trees, since all the lamps of that time were lit at night with olive oil. In other words, these are two Souls from whom the oil of divine wisdom- which is the cause of the illumination of the world- will appear, and through whom the lights of God will shine bright and resplendent. Thus have they also been likened to candlesticks. The candlestick is the locus of the light and the place from whence it emanates. In the same way, the light of guidance would shine resplendent from these luminous Countenances. (11:13)

How about we include Zec:4 into this part in the hope of adding some clarity.

They are "standing before God"- that is, they have arisen in His service and are educating His creatures. For instance, they so educated the barbarous, desert-dwelling tribes of the Arabian Peninsula as to cause them to attain the loftiest heights of human civilization at the time and to spread their fame and renown throughout the world (11:14)

Really?? Hogwash from start to finish.

"And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies."[28] This means that no soul would be able to withstand their might. That is, should anyone seek to subvert their teachings or their law, he would be overcome and defeated by virtue of that law which proceeds, whether in brief or in full, from their mouth. In other words, they would issue a command that would destroy any enemy that would attempt to harm or oppose them. And so it came to pass, for their opponents were all vanquished, dispersed, and destroyed, and these two witnesses were outwardly assisted by the power of God. (11:15)

Who has lived 1260 years?

"These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy."This means that they would rule supreme in that age. In other words, the law and teachings of Muhammad, and the exposition and commentaries of 'Alí, are a heavenly grace. Should they wish to bestow this grace, it is in their power to do so, and should they wish otherwise, no rain will fall, and by "rain" is meant here the outpouring grace. (11:16) com4
"And have power over waters to turn them to blood".[30] This means that the prophethood of Muhammad was similar to that of Moses, and the power of 'Alí like that of Joshua. That is, it was in their power, had they so desired, to turn the waters of the Nile into blood for the Egyptians and the deniers- or, in other words, to turn, in consequence of their ignorance and pride, that which was the source of their life into the cause of their death. Thus the sovereignty, wealth, and power of Pharaoh and of his people, which were the source of that nation's life, became, as a result of their opposition, denial, and pride, the very cause of their death, ruin, destruction, degradation, and wretchedness. Hence these two witnesses have power to destroy nations. (11:17)

That is a lot of mental gymnastics when none are needed or called for.

"And to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will".[31] This means that they would also be endowed with outward power and ascendancy, that they might school the workers of iniquity and the embodiments of oppression and tyranny. For God had granted these two witnesses both outward might and inward power, and so it is that they reformed and educated the wicked, bloodthirsty, and iniquitous Arabs of the desert who were like ravening wolves and beasts. (11:18)

lol Nothing like leaving Scripture in the dust if it gets in the way of a good story. Any idea of just what a fallen angels is??

"And when they shall have finished their testimony"- that is, when they have accomplished that which they were bidden, and have delivered the divine message, and promoted the religion of God, and spread abroad His heavenly teachings, so that the signs of spiritual life might be manifested in the souls of men, the light of human virtues might shine forth, and these desert tribes might achieve substantive progress. (11:19)

You kind of left out the part where they failed in their mission and were killed for 3 1/2 days or is that 3 1/2 years in this version??

"The beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them." By this beast is meant the Umayyads, who assailed these witnesses from the pit of error. And indeed it came to pass that the Umayyads assailed the religion of Muhammad and the truth of 'Alí, which consist in the love of God. (11:20)

Not even close.

 

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Commentary part 3

"The beast made war against these two witnesses." By this is intended a spiritual war, meaning that the beast would act in complete opposition to the teachings, conduct, and character of these two witnesses, to such an extent that the virtues and perfections that had been diffused among the peoples and nations by virtue of their power would entirely vanish, and animal qualities and carnal desires would predominate. Therefore, this beast would wage war against them and would gain ascendancy, meaning that the darkness of the error propagated by this beast would prevail throughout the world and slay those two witnesses- that is, it would extinguish their spiritual life amidst the people, obliterate their divine laws and teachings, and trample underfoot the religion of God, leaving behind naught but a dead and soulless body. (11:21)

Suddenly being killed and sent to the grave is now a spiritual act rather than it being a physical one. And you see no flaws in that at all??

"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."[35] By "their bodies" is meant the religion of God and by "the street", exposure to public view. "Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified" refers to the land of Syria and especially to Jerusalem, for the Umayyads had their seat of power in this land and it was here that the religion of God and the divine teachings first disappeared, leaving behind a soulless body. "Their bodies" refers to the religion of God, which remained as a dead and soulless body. (11:22)

Let's leave Syria out of it asit references Jerusalem alone.

"And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves." As was already explained, in the terminology of the Sacred Scriptures three days and a half signifies three years and a half, and three years and a half represents forty-two months, and forty-two months- 1,260 days. Since according to the explicit text of the Bible each day is equivalent to a year, this means that for 1,260 years, which is the duration of the Qur'anic Dispensation, the nations, tribes, and peoples would behold their bodies; that is, they would keep the religion of God before their eyes but would not act in accordance with it. Yet they would not suffer these bodies- the religion of God- to be laid to rest in the grave. That is, they would hold fast to its outward form and not let it entirely vanish from their midst nor allow the body to be wholly destroyed and annihilated. Rather, they would forsake its reality while out-wardly preserving its name and remembrance. (11:23)

So to holdthis story together the 1260 days they preach is now 1260 years and the 3 1/2 days they are in the grave is also a reference to 1260 years now?? You still see nothing wrong here??

That which is intended here are such kindreds, peoples, and nations as were gathered beneath the shadow of the Qur'an. These are they who would not allow the Cause and religion of God to be destroyed and annihilated outwardly as well. Thus, some manner of prayer and fasting was practised among them, but the very foundations of the religion of God, which are goodly character, upright conduct, and the knowledge of the divine mysteries, had disappeared; the light of human virtues, which proceeds from the love and knowledge of God, had been extinguished; the darkness of oppression and tyranny, of carnal desires and satanic attributes, prevailed; and the body of the religion of God, like unto a corpse, was exposed to public view (11:24)

Scrambling to hold it together and it is failing by any standard that calls for logic and reasoning.

For 1,260 days, each day being a year- that is, for the duration of the Islamic Dispensation- all that these two Persons had established as the foundations of the religion of God was forfeited by their followers. To such an extent were the traces of human virtues- which are the bestowals of God and which constituted the spirit of this religion- erased that truthfulness, justice, love, concord, purity, sanctity, detachment, and all the heavenly attributes vanished from their midst, and what remained of the religion was mere prayer and fasting. This condition lasted for 1,260 years, which corresponds to the Dispensation of the Qur'an. It was as though these two Persons had died and their bodies were left without a soul (11:25)
"And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth."[37] By "them that dwelt on the earth" is meant other peoples and nations, such as those of Europe and of distant Asian lands, who, seeing that the character of Islam had entirely changed; that the religion of God had been forsaken; that virtue, decency, and honour had vanished; and that characters had been subverted, rejoiced that the morals of the Muslims had been corrupted and that they stood therefore to be vanquished by other nations. And this indeed came to pass in a most conspicuous manner. Witness how this people who once wielded supreme power have been abased and subjugated! (11:26)

Seems to be an attempt to slam Islam really, it sure doesn't follow the bible at all. Try using a story that uses the times as given,so far I haven't seen that effort or what became of it that this version comes out as being 'the best'.

The other nations "shall send gifts to one another", meaning that they would help each other, for "these two prophets tormented them that dwelt upon the earth"; that is, they subdued and subjugated the other peoples and nations of the earth (11:27)

How does gifts translate into 'help'??

"And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them." Three days and a half, as we explained earlier, is 1,260 years. These two Persons whose bodies were lying soulless- that is, the teachings and the religion that Muhammad had established and that 'Alí had promoted, whose reality had vanished, and of which only an empty form had remained- were again endowed with spirit. That is, the spirituality of the religion of God that had become materiality, the virtues that had become vices, the love of God that had become hatred, the light that had become darkness, the divine qualities that had become satanic attributes, the justice that had become tyranny, the mercy that had become malice, the sincerity that had become hypocrisy, the guidance that had become error, the purity that had become carnality- all these divine teachings, heavenly virtues and perfections, and spiritual bounties- were, after three and a half days (which by the terminology of the Sacred Scriptures is 1,260 years) renewed by the advent of the Bab and by the allegiance of Quddús. (11:28)

Again with the need to manipulate the numbers given into something that is no needed except when trying to hold up this version of the book. A very flawed version btw.

Thus did the breezes of sanctity waft, the light of truth shine, the life-giving springtime arrive, and the morn of guidance dawn. These two dead bodies were once again quickened to life, and these two great Personages- one the Founder and the other the promoter- arose and were as two candlesticks, for they illumined the whole world with the light of truth (11:29)

Really?? Nothing has changed at all in the last 2,000 years. We have gotten further away from God rather than closer.

"And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud",meaning that from the invisible heaven they heard the voice of God, saying: You have accomplished all that was called for with regard to educating the people and conveying the glad-tidings of that which is to come. You have delivered My message to the people, raised the call of Truth, and fulfilled your every obligation. Now, even as Christ, you must lay down your lives in the path of the Beloved and suffer a martyr's death. And so that Sun of Reality and that Moon of Guidance[40] both set, Christ-like, beneath the horizon of the supreme sacrifice and ascended to the realm of Heaven. (11:30)

So you want them to die again after they have been resurrected from the grave??? How can something this bad get past you??

"And their enemies beheld them."That is, many of their enemies realized after their martyrdom the sublimity of their station and the excellence of their virtues, and testified to their greatness and their perfections. (11:31)
"And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand."[42] This earthquake occurred in Shíraz after the martyrdom of the Bab. The city was plunged into turmoil, and many people were killed. Great agitation ensued, moreover, from diseases, cholera, scarcity, famine, starvation, and other afflictions- an agitation the like of which had never before been witnessed. (11:32)

The ending is worse than the beginning ashard as that is to imagine.

"And the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."When the earthquake took place in Fars, the survivors were wailing and lamenting day and night, and were occupied with praising and imploring God. So great was their fear and agitation that at night they could find no rest or composure. (11:33)

Again, not even close.

 

[Searching1981]

The relevant verses are Matthew 25:31-46. In these verses, the Christ says that when he returns to the world, humanity will be divided into two - those on the left and those on the right - the goats and the sheep. The division will be entirely based on the people's attitude to the 'least of these' - ie the poorest of the poor, the most oppressed, the worst down-trodden.

In verses 41-43, he goes on to say '‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

Putting these verses in today's context, I see food of the hungry as programs like the foodstamp program; looking after the sick as programs like Medicaid, Obamacare, Medicare; welcoming strangers as welcoming immigrants/refugees; and taking care of those in prison as the previous administration's clemency program.

Just as the Christ predicted, the country is divided bitterly into two polarized groups with diametrically opposite views regarding such programs.

So do you think the perfect match between the Christ's prophesy and the most contentious issues of today is a mere coincidence?

I think this division in the country (and perhaps the world) is the surest sign that the Return of the Christ is imminent. What do you think?

I'm new to this group and I have not read the responses. I'm glad you are my Christian Brother or Sister. This is a beautiful passage you have showed to us and your explanation is beautiful as well. Keep your Faith, I know you will.

I agree with you in all my heart. I have a passage to share with you from Luke, Luke 21:12:19 which is also about the returning of the Christ.

12 “Before all this happens,[d] however, they will seize and persecute you, they will hand you over to the synagogues and to prisons, and they will have you led before kings and governors because of my name. 13 It will lead to your giving testimony. 14 Remember, you are not to prepare your defense beforehand, 15 for I myself shall give you a wisdom in speaking[e] that all your adversaries will be powerless to resist or refute. 16 You will even be handed over by parents, brothers, relatives, and friends, and they will put some of you to death. 17 You will be hated by all because of my name, 18 but not a hair on your head will be destroyed. 19 By your perseverance you will secure your lives.

I have more detail. The Left and the Right go back to the time of Christ. Right is Blue, Left is Red (in Western Politics they switch the terms around.) Yellow is a sign of neutrality so Orange is Neutral but leaning Left, Green is Neutral but leaning Right. Look at Western Flags, all countries delineate which faction is welcome in their nation by their flags colors.

So, for example Ireland was Neutral During all Wars; their colors are Green and Orange. Germany is a Left nation their colors are Red, Yellow and Black. England welcomes both factions, with Red and Blue being their colors but preferring Red (the Red Coats in the American Revolution). The Founding forefathers almost always wore Blue, we started as a Blue Nation or a Right Nation.

Blue, Right is Religious Liberal (Catholic, Presybiterian, Methodist) while Red, Left consists of Religious Conservatives, Homosexuals, and Stateists. (Look at Japan, USSR flags). Also, Blue is like the Blues are considered Dogs and Left like Jazz Cats are considered Cats. You can see from the music Blue are the Folk or Folksy down to Earth people in Christ and Red are the stiff, upright Person.

There is so much detail to this but if you want to know more read Hegels the Elements of the Philosophy of Right (the faction of Right). It is a famous eighteenth century philosophy book written by the Protestant Aquinus.

Going back to scripture, this is why the Christ wore a Purple sash (red and blue make purple); trying to bring both groups together. And why when we pray we bring our Right Hand and Left Hands together to bring them together and why when Christ was crucified his hands were outstretched to show until he returns both groups would be divided.

I myself am a true member of the Right and work as a revolutionary member, I am a Dog. If you look at Modern Music since the 20th century it is there in music. Jay Z, Beyonce (daughter Blue Ivy) Coldplay, Bruno Mars, Mark Ronson, Snoop Dog, Pearl Jam, Soundgaarden (Temple of the Dog), Rolling Stones, are all Dogs like me and I am an amateur musician. We are all Religious of different religions but share we are Right. There is plenty of revolutionary music if you listen to it. In fact, the last Revolutionary Song written is Uptown Funk, listen to it with GOOD quality sound (not Spotify which is meant to cover it up), raised up high and your eyes closed and you will hear why.

Cheers from a Dog.

 

[Searching1981]

Now, no one is responding so I suspect people are in awe with the Truth. Let me share more Truth the LEFT Christians are True Christians and Revolutionaries. Let me give you some Left Christian Role Models.

Here are the Left Role Models, which I love Davie Bowie, Travis Tritt, Brad Paisely (Love and War is Revolutionary Left and is the Best Music of our time), the Beatles, Biggie Smalls (a True Christian), Myley Cyrus, Billie Ray Cyrus, the Legendary Prophtetic and Visionary Band Lynyrd Skynyrd. They are all true Christians. (Black Panthers and Rage Against the Machine are also Left, we in the Right love them too, especially because they were true Christians with Faith)

The problem with the Left coming from a Right, (and you should really listen to Brad Paisely's new album Love and War) is the Statist came in and called it Conservatism. The Statists Hijacked the Left but they are not true Christians or True Left.

The real Christians Left and Right Revolutionaries work together; we are friends. But the Statists want to divide us like Ann Coulter, Brietbart News, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson they are not Straight and cannot be Christian.

So love the Christian Revolutionary Left and Right, we are Brothers and Sisters. Do not confuse Stateism, Fascism with Left or Right becuase they will divide us Both. Be Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu or Sikh and we all have Faith energy and the only thing that will divide us are the Faithless Totalitarians. Right and Left work together we are Christians, we are Ideal Democrats and Republicans, We are all saved.

 

[MJFlores]

Now, no one is responding so I suspect people are in awe with the Truth. Let me share more Truth the LEFT Christians are True Christians and Revolutionaries. Let me give you some Left Christian Role Models.

Here are the Left Role Models, which I love Davie Bowie, Travis Tritt, Brad Paisely (Love and War is Revolutionary Left and is the Best Music of our time), the Beatles, Biggie Smalls (a True Christian), Myley Cyrus, Billie Ray Cyrus, the Legendary Prophtetic and Visionary Band Lynyrd Skynyrd. They are all true Christians.

The problem with the Left coming from a Right, (and you should really listen to Brad Paisely's new album Love and War) is the Statist came in and called it Conservatism. The Statists Hijacked the Left but they are not true Christians or True Left.

The real Christians Left and Right Revolutionaries work together; we are friends. But the Statists want to divide us like Ann Coulter, Brietbart News, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson they are not Straight and cannot be Christian.

So love the Christian Revolutionary Left and Right, we are Brothers and Sisters. Do not confuse Stateism, Fascism with Left or Right becuase they will divide us Both. Be Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu or Sikh and we all have Faith energy and the only thing that will divide us are the Faithless Totalitarians. Right and Left work together we are Christians, we are Ideal Democrats and Republicans, We are all saved.

I like to respond but I could not decipher what your concept of being "saved"

It went right and left then from colors blue and red, from David Bowie to faithless Totalitarians.

I think, I am fainting...

 

[MHz]

Commentary part 4

I was going to pass on this part but then that would leave the rebuttal unfinished and if the rebuttal is more reasonable than this fanciful version you brought to me to read. It is only fair I do a complete job just to show I didn't miss anything. You are allowed some follow-up questions in case you didn't know that.

"The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly." The first woe was the advent of the Apostle of God, Muhammad the son of 'Abdu'llah, peace be upon Him. The second woe was that of the Bab, upon Him be glory and praise.

Where did you come up with this and how did it come to rule over what is contained in the book?? I get a little suspicious of doctrines that leave the Bible behind in a cloud of dust rather than doctrines that lean on a lot of other passages to tell a most vivid picture you could ever imagine on your darkest night. It goes pretty fast also as the other books end being nothing but a distraction.

Re:8:12:
And the fourth angel sounded,
and the third part of the sun was smitten,
and the third part of the moon,
and the third part of the stars;
so as the third part of them was darkened,
and the day shone not for a third part of it,
and the night likewise.
Re:8:13:
And I beheld,
and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven,
saying with a loud voice,
Woe,
woe,
woe,
to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels,
which are yet to sound!

Re:9:4-12:
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth,
neither any green thing,
neither any tree;
but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
And to them it was given that they should not kill them,
but that they should be tormented five months:
and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion,
when he striketh a man.
And in those days shall men seek death,
and shall not find it;
and shall desire to die,
and death shall flee from them.
And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle;
and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold,
and their faces were as the faces of men.
And they had hair as the hair of women,
and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
And they had breastplates,
as it were breastplates of iron;
and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
And they had tails like unto scorpions,
and there were stings in their tails:
and their power was to hurt men five months.
And they had a king over them,
which is the angel of the bottomless pit,
whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
One woe is past;
and,
behold,
there come two woes more hereafter.

Re:13:1-8:
And I stood upon the sand of the sea,
and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,
having seven heads and ten horns,
and upon his horns ten crowns,
and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard,
and his feet were as the feet of a bear,
and his mouth as the mouth of a lion:
and the dragon gave him his power,
and his seat,
and great authority.
And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death;
and his deadly wound was healed:
and all the world wondered after the beast.
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast:
and they worshipped the beast,
saying,
Who is like unto the beast?
who is able to make war with him?
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies;
and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God,
to blaspheme his name,
and his tabernacle,
and them that dwell in heaven.
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints,
and to overcome them:
and power was given him over all kindreds,
and tongues,
and nations.
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him,
whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

At this point it would be wise to look into who the Book of Jude is referencing as that is an application to a fallen angel being given back what it had before the flood came along. Longer doctrines also have to be more detailed and that introduces or error being introduced. Ones that can be pointed out like I am doing for the day being years issue. (that one isn't finished yet)

The third woe is the great Day of the advent of the Lord of Hosts and the revelation of the promised Beauty. The explanation of this matter is provided in the thirtieth chapter of Ezekiel, where it is said: "The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying, Son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Howl ye, Woe worth the day! For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near."[45] It is therefore evident then that the day of woe is the day of the Lord; for in that day woe is upon the heedless, the sinners, and the ignorant. That is why it is said, "The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly." This third woe is the day of the manifestation of Baha'u'llah, the Day of God, and it is near to the day of the appearance of the Bab. (11:34)

Here is a perfect way to cover my version of the Bible for yourself. I can promote that all the OT references to the term 'day of the lord' will return about 24 references that point to 24 different passages. It will also be pretty clear that wrath comes before salvation and the sequence it follows for the day the two witnesses are as resurrected to life as Jews was on the morning of His resurrection. They ascend to the clouds and the ascend to the earth again that same evening.
Once they are at cloud height with all the other ones who have died in the service of God they witness the destruction of Satan's Babylon in the space of just 1 hour. All 7 vials are poured out in the same time that Jesus was alive on the cross. (say 12-3PM and he died and was in the grave for the last 3 hours of that same day)
Using that determination for how the bruise to the heel played out can be applied to how the other bruise from that verse plays out. One afternoon was allowed for the cross, one afternoon is allowed for Christ to remove all opposition to God from the land of the living and restore life to the whole of the 12 Tribes of Israel who are also in the same condition as the two witnesses are so they go to the new River Jordan and drink from that water and eat from the tree of life that grows on it's shores. They have a glorified body which means it can never be harmed and food is optional rather than a necessity. Traits only available to angels at the moment and before man is given that trait they are also given a sinless heart. That is accomplished by 6PM of the same day the two witnesses come out of the grave they have been in for the last 4 days.
Obviously that is not going to happen in today's world using that understanding. Men can try and follow the timeline but they need to adjust it yet insist the book is valid as long as you use their version that leaves them with all the gold and good things in life. Same lifestyle the crooks today enjoy, how odd.

The 70 weeks can be shown to have unfolded as a single block of time once it started to unfold according to prophecy. The same happened for the 70th week, it started as soon as the 59th week was done. The iron/clay from Daniel is not yet started to unfold. It begins when the 5th trump sounds and the fallen angel known as the Beast from the Pit begins a rule that mirrors the one he had in Ge:6.
Jerusalem will be the prize and the two witnesses prevent it for all but 3 1/2 days because that is all God is giving Satan. The prize is God installs all of Eve's children that would have grown up in the Garden if sin had not entered the world and over the next 1,000 years the city will reflect a Garden that has never known sin. It is also what Satan and the remaining fallen angels will see just as God is sending them to the fiery lake when that 'first day' in the Kingdom of God is completed. Adam died at 930 so he would not be judged to be a sinner. All people who are alive at the end of the 1st day of that reign will be more than 1,000 years old so god will also be judging them as well as the angels.All the people on the planet will arrive at the the next phase as a single group.

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever."[46] That angel refers to human souls who have been endowed with heavenly attributes and invested with an angelic nature and disposition. Voices will be lifted up and the appearance of the divine Manifestation will be proclaimed and noised abroad. It will be announced that this day is the day of the advent of the Lord of Hosts, and this Dispensation the merciful Dispensation of the Divine Providence. It has been promised and recorded in all the Sacred Books and Scriptures that in this Day of God His divine and spiritual sovereignty will be established, the world will be renewed, a fresh spirit will be breathed into the body of creation, the divine springtime will be ushered in, the clouds of mercy will rain down, the Sun of Truth will shine forth, the life-giving breezes will blow: The world of humanity will be arrayed in a new garment; the face of the earth will become even as the highest paradise; humanity will be educated; war, dissension, strife, and contention will vanish; truthfulness, uprightness, peace, and godliness will prevail; love, concord, and union will encompass the world; and God will rule forevermore- that is, a spiritual and everlasting sovereignty will be established. Such is the Day of God. For all the days which have come and gone were the days of Abraham, Moses, Christ, or of the other Prophets, but this day is the Day of God, inasmuch as the Sun of Truth will shine forth therein with the utmost intensity and radiance. (11:35)

It would have been easier to show the passages. I didn't see it mentioned that the sacrifice in the temple during the reign would be a bloodless one. The one below is an acceptable sacrifice from as sinless and immortal people.

Ge:4:3:
And in process of time it came to pass,
that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

 

[MHz]

"And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, saying, We give Thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because Thou hast taken to Thee Thy great power, and hast reigned."[47] In every Dispensation there have been twelve chosen ones: In the time of Joseph there were twelve brothers; in the time of Moses there were twelve heads or chiefs of the tribes; in the time of Christ there were twelve Apostles; and in the time of Muhammad there were twelve Imams. But in this glorious Revelation there are twenty-four such souls, double the number of all the others, for so does its greatness require. These holy souls are in the presence of God seated upon their thrones, meaning that they reign eternally. (11:36)

Let's go back a bit, on the morning when Jesus was resurrected some OT saints were also resurrected. There is a statement by Jesus that He had to ascend to God in Heaven to be glorified. He was able to baptize later that night. The 24 Elders would have had to be in place by the transition in temples that came with the fulfillment of 70AD in Luke:21:24. The gathering of the Gentiles started back in Acts:10 which included the last act for the 12 Tribes by God. The end of the 70 weeks and the end to all things associated with the bruise to the heel prophecies and events. It was an event so important that God sent 4 witnesses to cover it.
The fanfare for the next one is a lot less because it is the passing of the remaining bruise that is the important part of that part of the sequence in the path that eventually takes all people to stand before God and feel un-ashamed in word and deed. That is also why 'day of the lord' is such a popular phrase in OT prophecy. Fact is you would be hard pressed to come up with a prophecy that has 'that day' in it that wasn't a reference to the days Satan's gets the determined bruise .

These twenty-four glorious souls, though they are established upon the throne of everlasting sovereignty, nonetheless bow down in adoration to, and are humble and submissive before, that universal Manifestation of God, saying, "We give Thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because Thou hast taken to Thee Thy great power, and hast reigned." That is, Thou wilt promulgate all Thy teachings, gather all the people of the earth under Thy shadow, and bring all men together under a single tabernacle. And although sovereignty has always belonged to God, and He has ever been and will forever continue to be the supreme Sovereign, the reference in this instance is to the sovereignty of the Manifestation of His own Self, Who will promulgate such laws and teachings as are the very spirit of the world of humanity and the cause of everlasting life. That universal Manifestation will subdue the world through a spiritual power, not through war and strife. He will array the world with peace and harmony, not with swords and spears. He will establish this divine sovereignty through genuine love, not through military might. He will promote these divine teachings through kindness and amity, not through violence and arms. Even though these nations and peoples are, in view of the divergence of their conditions, the disparity of their customs and characters, and the diversity of their religions and races, even as the wolf and the lamb, the leopard and the kid, and the sucking child and the asp, He will so educate them that they will embrace, consort with, and confide in each other. Racial antipathy, religious animosity, and national rivalries will be entirely effaced, and all will attain perfect fellowship and complete harmony under the shade of the Blessed Tree (11:37)

M't:22:25-30:
Now there were with us seven brethren:
and the first,
when he had married a wife,
deceased,
and,
having no issue,
left his wife unto his brother:
Likewise the second also,
and the third,
unto the seventh.
And last of all the woman died also.
Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven?
for they all had her.
Jesus answered and said unto them,
Ye do err,
not knowing the scriptures,
nor the power of God.
For in the resurrection they neither marry,
nor are given in marriage,
but are as the angels of God in heaven.

This would mean that when Adam stood before God that Eve was standing beside Adam and treated as an individual being rather than as a protectorate of Adam. Re:12 starts off with a woman standing before God with a crown of 12 stars. Those represent 12 of her oldest children and because of the resurrection rules the men would have the wives appear beside them as individual beings. 24 Thrones for the witnesses from 12 different families that lived during a time the fallen angels were trying to exterminate 5 fingered people.
It is their prayers that are cast to earth just before fallen angels have rule over the earth in the same fashion they had prior to the flood of water.this one ends in a flood of water

Re:5:10:
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests:
and we shall reign on the earth.

"And the nations were angry," for Thy teachings ran counter to the selfish desires of the other nations, "and Thy wrath is come,"[49] meaning that all suffered grievous loss for failing to follow Thy counsels, admonitions, and teachings; were deprived of grace everlasting; and were veiled from the light of the Sun of Truth. (11:38)

All liars face immediate death at the hand of God, after proof of God being available for 3 1/2 years.

"And the time of the dead, that they should be judged" means that the time has come that the dead- that is, those who are deprived of the spirit of the love of God and bereft of that life which is holy and everlasting- should be judged with equity, meaning that each should be raised up according to their worthiness and capacity, and that the truth should be fully divulged as to what depths of degradation they occupy in this world of existence and how they should, in reality, be accounted among the dead. (11:39)

Salvation is a process.

 

[MHz]

Salvation is a process. Glorification is the dividing line. Christ and the OT Saints have been glorified. He will gather more at His coming and the rest will be gathered by God at the Great White Throne. Together they will make up the seed bank for the people that are around for start of the new earth era.

"That Thou shouldest give reward unto Thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear Thy name, small and great"; that is, that Thou wilt single out the righteous for Thy boundless grace, cause them to shine even as heavenly stars above the horizon of ancient glory, and aid them to show forth such conduct and character as to illumine the world of humanity and to become the means of guidance and the source of everlasting life in the divine Kingdom. (11:40)

The time for reward and punishment is the same day. If you are destined to be alive for the 1,000 years your punishment must be concluded prior to the day the 7th trump sounds as that is the one and only day this is destined to take place.

Eze:39:24-29:
According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them,
and hid my face from them.
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD;
Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob,
and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel,
and will be jealous for my holy name;
After that they have borne their shame,
and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me,
when they dwelt safely in their land,
and none made them afraid.
When I have brought them again from the people,
and gathered them out of their enemies' lands,
and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God,
which cause them to be led into captivity among the heathen:
but I have gathered them unto their own land,
and have left none of them any more there.
Neither will I hide my face any more from them:
for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel,
saith the Lord GOD.

Eze:37:13-28:
And ye shall know that I am the LORD,
when I have opened your graves,
O my people,
and brought you up out of your graves,
And shall put my spirit in you,
and ye shall live,
and I shall place you in your own land:
then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it,
and performed it, saith the LORD.
The word of the LORD came again unto me,
saying,
Moreover,
thou son of man,
take thee one stick,
and write upon it,
For Judah,
and for the children of Israel his companions:
then take another stick,
and write upon it,
For Joseph,
the stick of Ephraim,
and for all the house of Israel his companions:
And join them one to another into one stick;
and they shall become one in thine hand.
And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee,
saying,
Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
Say unto them,
Thus saith the Lord GOD;
Behold,
I will take the stick of Joseph,
which is in the hand of Ephraim,
and the tribes of Israel his fellows,
and will put them with him,
even with the stick of Judah,
and make them one stick,
and they shall be one in mine hand.
And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
And say unto them,
Thus saith the Lord GOD;
Behold,
I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen,
whither they be gone,
and will gather them on every side,
and bring them into their own land:
And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel;
and one king shall be king to them all:
and they shall be no more two nations,
neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols,
nor with their detestable things,
nor with any of their transgressions:
but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces,
wherein they have sinned,
and will cleanse them:
so shall they be my people,
and I will be their God.
And David my servant shall be king over them;
and they all shall have one shepherd:
they shall also walk in my judgments,
and observe my statutes,
and do them.
And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant,
wherein your fathers have dwelt;
and they shall dwell therein,
even they,
and their children,
and their children's children for ever:
and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them;
it shall be an everlasting covenant with them:
and I will place them,
and multiply them,
and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
My tabernacle also shall be with them:
yea,
I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel,
when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

Jer:31:31-34:
Behold,
the days come,
saith the LORD,
that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel,
and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;
which my covenant they brake,
although I was an husband unto them,
saith the LORD:
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days,
saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
and write it in their hearts;
and will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour,
and every man his brother,
saying,
Know the LORD:
for they shall all know me,
from the least of them unto the greatest of them,
saith the LORD;
for I will forgive their iniquity,
and I will remember their sin no more.

"And shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth".That is, Thou wilt entirely deprive the heedless; for the blindness of the blind will be exposed and the sight of them that see will become evident; the ignorance and folly of the exponents of error will be recognized and the knowledge and wisdom of the rightly guided will be manifested; and thus the destroyers will be destroyed. (11:41)

Rather than delay things the 7 vials get poured out on the world starting at Jerusalem. A few hours later 2/3of all the people on the planet are dead. The Oceans have been turned into a solid so all that life is taken away. 24 different passages describe the events of that day and the book will explain why God does it in the order He does. Not only does mankind make it into the new earth all flesh that Adam and eve had dominion over ore also destined to have their lives resurrected also.

"And the temple of God was opened in heaven."This means that the divine Jerusalem has appeared and the Holy of Holies has become manifest. Among the people of true knowledge, the Holy of Holies refers to the essence of the religion of God and His true teachings, which have remained unchanged throughout all the prophetic Dispensations, as was explained previously, while Jerusalem encompasses the reality of the religion of God, which is the Holy of Holies, as well as all the laws, mutual relationships, rites, and material ordinances, which constitute the city. That is why it is called the heavenly Jerusalem. Briefly, in the course of the Dispensation of the Sun of Truth, the lights of God will shine forth with the utmost splendour, and thus the essence of the divine teachings will be realized in the world of being, the darkness of ignorance and folly will be dispelled, the world will become another world, spiritual illumination will encompass all, and hence the Holy of Holies will appear. (11:42)

Or, . . . it means the time of earnest prayer by a believer for an act of safety is acted on with Moses like powers. The two witnesses would be the 'eyes and ears' for hearing those prayers and safety would be by them getting the earth to act in a way that would save the ones in peril. 1/3 of all Gentiles on the planet will be believers on the day the 7th trump sounds. The ones that survive the 7 plagues walk to Israel and enter it from the east. The 40 days it takes to walk there is equal to the 40 days in the wilderness that come with baptism with the Holy Spirit.

"And the temple of God was opened in heaven." This means also that through the dissemination of these divine teachings, the disclosure of these heavenly mysteries, and the dawning of the Sun of Truth, the portals of progress and advancement will be flung open on all sides and the signs of celestial blessings and bestowals will be made manifest. (11:43)

In this case it is transferring power from the temple in Re:4 to the temple that will be on earth for the 1,000 year reign. The temple above is closed when the 7 vials are poured out as the prayers might be said in earnest but they come too late and the one in danger will have to wait until the Great White Throne before safety comes their way.

"And there was seen in His temple the ark of His Testament."This means that the Book of His Covenant will appear in His Jerusalem, the Tablet of the Testament will be recorded, and the meaning of the Covenant and Testament will become evident. The call of God will resound throughout East and West, and the earth will be filled with the renown of the Cause of God. The violators of the Covenant will be humbled and abased, and the faithful will attain honour and glory, for they hold fast to the Book of the Covenant and are firm and unwavering in the path of the Testament. (11:44)

On the day the 7th trump sounds the 7 vials from Re:16 are poured out on the sinners of the world.On that same day the ones that see that day arrive when they remain alive or are resurrected to be alive for the end of that day. Re:10 and the 7th voice is a reference to words being spoken by Christ. The names are from the Book of Life and they will be alive for the 1,000 year reign. The many names not read out will be read out at the GWT event so salvation also comes to them.

"And there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail",[56] meaning that after the appearance of the Book of the Covenant there will be a great tempest, the lightning of divine anger and wrath will flash, the thunder of the violation of the Covenant will break, the tremor of doubt will shake the earth, the hail of torments will rain upon the violators of the Covenant, and those who claim to believe will be subjected to tests and trials. (11:45)

The celebration is over the two bruises from Ge:3:15 have been fulfilled and all effects of sin are undone (for the most part)

 

[Dawnofhope]

By your own words those contributing to bigotry and intolerance are not Christians. Besides Mt 25:37 tells us that those doing these good works are righteous. Doing the right things with the wrong motives is of no value(I Cor 13:1-3). The only motive God accepts is doing something because we love God, not for some reward.

Lets step back a moment and look at this from another angle. You are not going to like this but racism is comparable with Christian supremacism. It wasn't too long ago that people of European assumed superiority over those of African descent. We call that racism. Your Christian theologically assumes superiority to other religious faiths. One historic consequence has been anti-Semitism. Approximately 95% of Germany's population considered themselves Christian prior to WWII. We know there were exceptional examples of Christians and others who defied the Nazi regime. However, Christians and the churches were largely complicit in Hitler's agenda or turned a blind eye resulting in the extermination of approximately six million Jews. Anti-Semitism wasn't just a German problem, it was rife throughout the Western world and Christianity played a significant role in its propagation.

Good works does not make a goat a sheep. Good works with the right motive indicate the person is a sheep.

That is my point. You can have good works and the right motive, and not be a Christian.

Now go back and read Mt 7:1-3 while looking in a mirror. The Bible CLEARLY teaches that those who believe in Jesus will go to heaven. Who are you to judge that is not true? Some believe that doing good works will qualify them for heaven. Something the Bible does not say.

I'm prepared to stand up against prejudice and bigotry of all kinds whether it be racism, sexism, or religious bigotry. The religious prejudice is worse because it is justified in the name of God.

It says no such thing. It tells us in simple,straight forward what Jesus has done for those who have made Him their Savior.

To understand scripture we need to consider the historic context plain and simple. We can not take the words alone and consider them in a modern context. It just doesn't work and becomes a distortion.

Again you are not understanding the verse. It is not about an historical context. Again it is in simple, straight forward language, that makes my point , not yours---righteous IS NOT derived from the law, but comes through faith in Christ.

Again you are judging those who God calls righteous. Because of your belief that good works are necessary to make one righteous, you are reading something into that passage that is not there. The good deeds done by the righteous does not even hint at derision of people of others faith.

All religions except Christianity are legalistic---one must do good to be acceptable to God to get His reward.

I doubt if you see the problem with these words I've highlighted in black. You simply do not understand how other religions work. You certainly don't understand mine. When you make judgements about other faiths without considering the facts that is ignorance and prejudice.

You can try to turn the tables on me. The problem is I accept God, Jesus, and the bible in its entirety. I simply see it differently from you.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I assume no rebuttal exists at the moment or it would have been referenced.

I would be careful about many any assumptions. I'm impressed that you have gone to considerable lengths to argue against the commentary I provided. We obviously have very different understandings. There may be some common ground too. I'll post again soon.

 

[omega2xx]

Lets step back a moment and look at this from another angle. You are not going to like this but racism is comparable with Christian supremacism.

There is no doctrine of "Christian supremacism." Just the opposite---Regard one another as more important than your self(P:hil2:3)---Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus(Phil 2:5) He humbled Himself an became a bond servant, the lowest form of servanthood(Phil 2:7-8).

It is racism, but it is not Christian thinking. How do you know those folks were Christians? You shall know them by their fruits. All who say Lord Lord will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

It wasn't too long ago that people of European assumed superiority over those of African descent. We call that racism.

Again, that is not what is taught in Christianity---Love your neighbor as yourself is part of God's greatest commandment. You are trying to judge us by what is not Biblical.

Your Christian theologically assumes superiority to other religious faiths.
Yes we do and if you can prove it is not, you have made your point.

One historic consequence has been anti-Semitism.

Not unless you can show where any of our Biblical doctrines teach hate of anyone. Our doctrines teaches us to love our enemies.

Approximately 95% of Germany's population considered themselves Christian prior to WWII.

Considering yourself to be a Christians doe snot make you one and many of the Germans opposed how he Jews were treated. Have you never heard of Bonhoffer and Anne Frank?

We know there were exceptional examples of Christians and others who defied the Nazi regime. However, Christians and the churches were largely complicit in Hitler's agenda or turned a blind eye resulting in the extermination of approximately six million Jews. Anti-Semitism wasn't just a German problem, it was rife throughout the Western world and Christianity played a significant role in its propagation.

Biblical Christianity has no doctrine of hate as I have just proved to you. You are JUDGING by the opinions of non-believers.

That is my point. You can have good works and the right motive, and not be a Christian.

That depends on what the motive is. It is not love of man, it is love of God and wanting to be obedient to his teachings to love one another

I'm prepared to stand up against prejudice and bigotry of all kinds whether it be racism, sexism, or religious bigotry.

So are Christians. Don't judge us by what some do in the name of Christianity. Judge us by what Christianity teaches, If some claiming to be Christians do things not taught in the Bible, they are either not Christian or they are ignorant Christians.

The religious prejudice is worse because it is justified in the name of God.

You accusing Christianity on your ignorance of the subject is a form of religious prejudice.

To understand scripture we need to consider the historic context plain and simple. We can not take the words alone and consider them in a modern context. It just doesn't work and becomes a distortion.

That is nonsense. Neither an historical context nor a modern context will change the plain truths taught in the Bible, especially any modern context. Truth does not change over time or over man's trying to change a truth to fit today's thinking.

I doubt if you see the problem with these words I've highlighted in black. You simply do not understand how other religions work. You certainly don't understand mine. When you make judgements about other faiths without considering the facts that is ignorance and prejudice.

In this post you have shown more ignorance a prejudice than I ever have. I understand how other religions work, probably better than you do, and I judge them from what the Bible says. If a religion has more than one God, it is a false religion. If Jehovah is not its God. it is a false religion. If it teaches something contrary to what the Bible says, it is a false religion.

You have accused Christianity of claiming to be superior as a bad thing, but it seems to me you are claiming your religion is superior to others.

You can try to turn the tables on me. The problem is I accept God, Jesus, and the bible in its entirety. I simply see it differently from you.

If you accepted the Bible in its entirety, you would not have made some of statements you just made. Do you accept that having a god other than Jehovah is idolatry and a sin? When the Bible and your religions has contradictory teachings, which do you accept? Do you accept that if the
Bible contradicts some teachings of your religion, that you religion has some false teachings?

Do you accept that Jesus is the only way to heaven and it is not based on doing good works , but on faith alone?

 

[Dawnofhope]

There is no doctrine of "Christian supremacism."

No. Just Christians that practice discrimination and intolerance based on their misunderstanding of their own religion.

It is racism, but it is not Christian thinking. How do you know those folks were Christians? You shall know them by their fruits. All who say Lord Lord will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

So where in the NT is the abolition of slavery taught?

Again, that is not what is taught in Christianity---Love your neighbor as yourself is part of God's greatest commandment. You are trying to judge us by what is not Biblical.

The world is weary of empty words. If a man says one thing and does another, then he is a hypocrite. It is the cup clean on the outside and filthy on the inside.

That is nonsense. Neither an historical context nor a modern context will change the plain truths taught in the Bible, especially any modern context. Truth does not change over time or over man's trying to change a truth to fit today's thinking.

In that case we should abide by all 613 of the Jewish laws if historic context doesn't matter.

In this post you have shown more ignorance a prejudice than I ever have. I understand how other religions work, probably better than you do, and I judge them from what the Bible says. If a religion has more than one God, it is a false religion. If Jehovah is not its God. it is a false religion. If it teaches something contrary to what the Bible says, it is a false religion.

You have no idea how other religions work. You are simply judging them by your faulty standards.

You have accused Christianity of claiming to be superior as a bad thing, but it seems to me you are claiming your religion is superior to others.

I claim many Christians view themselves and their religion as superior. There is nothing good about it.

Do you accept that Jesus is the only way to heaven and it is not based on doing good works , but on faith alone?

No.

 

[omega2xx]

No. Just Christians that practice discrimination and intolerance based on their misunderstanding of their own religion.
How do you know they are Christians? Even if they are, you do not judge a religion by what SOME of its followers do, you judge it by what it teaches them to do/not do. Do you follow all of your religions teaching perfectly all the time.

So where in the NT is the abolition of slavery taught?

It isn't taught.

The world is weary of empty words. If a man says one thing and does another, then he is a hypocrite. It is the cup clean on the outside and filthy on the inside.

When you become perfect your words will have more meaning,. Until them you are a sinner like the rest of us.

In that case we should abide by all 613 of the Jewish laws if historic context doesn't matter.

If God has made a law, we should abide by it no matter which testament it is in. Do you obey all 613 all the time? If not, why not?

You have no idea how other religions work.

You are not qualified to say I do not know how other religions work

You are simply judging them by your faulty standards.

You are not qualified to judge if my standards are faulty.

I claim many Christians view themselves and their religion as superior. There is nothing good about it.

Claiming is an opinion, it is not evidence.

No

Then don't claim to be teaching the Bible.

 

[Dawnofhope]

That's too bad because then neither war Jesus and there will be no return and no everlasting life.

1Co:15:32:
If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus,
what advantageth it me,
if the dead rise not?
let us eat and drink;
for to morrow we die.

1Co:15:15-23:
Yea,
and we are found false witnesses of God;
because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ:
whom he raised not up,
if so be that the dead rise not.
For if the dead rise not,
then is not Christ raised:
And if Christ be not raised,
your faith is vain;
ye are yet in your sins.
Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
If in this life only we have hope in Christ,
we are of all men most miserable.
But now is Christ risen from the dead,
and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
For since by man came death,
by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die,
even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
But every man in his own order:
Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

It might be useful to consider that Paul never saw the resurrected Christ. Yet he likened his resurrection experiences to those of others.

On this particular issue I have set up a thread. I'm happy to discuss further.

Resurrection of Christ: Literal fact or spiritual reality?

 

[Dawnofhope]

It doesn't offer any physical proof either, nor can Judaism.

I side with the Jews and Muslims who say it does. I think the greatest proof is the life and teachings of both Moses and Muhammad and the transformative effect on the lives of millions of their followers.

The Quran is not meant to surpass what the Bible covers as far as anything to do with prophecies and events connected to Ge:3:15. It is more about how some Gentiles came to be qualified to believe in the one true God and not come from the 12 Tribes.

I agree that it is not meant to surpass the bible but it does provide a book of Divine guidance for those with eyes to see and ears to hear. Unfortunately like your Christian ancestors the theory and practice were two very different things.

The 1st NT Law is about a person's relationship with God. Rather than leave 'us' guessing He included 7 letters to 7 different groups of people that will come to have a shared judgment in the form of the 7 vials. If you are on the 'not overcome' side of any of the 7 Churches you will not be alive within a few breaths. The next time you will see that same God is when you appear before Him at the Great White Throne event. Being sent to the grave will cover all sins a person can commit. Being a sinner in the 42 months when the Beast and Satan are active is to be the same as a sinner prior to the flood and the punishment is the same, the grave but without being asleep.

I actually agree with that. But then Jesus was simply quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 when asked about the most important law. So the OT is useful after all.

I think we can get carried away to into a world of fanciful theories and ideas looking at apocalyptic scripture and in my experience its not a good starting place for an interfaith dialogue.

It is important to highlight that the year 1260 on the Muslim calendar in the year 1844 for the Gregorian calendar. This is the year that the Baha'i revelation began.

I do not believe in a literal beast or Satan but these are symbols for dark forces in us all, and in humanity.

Seven of course is highly symbolic of perfection and so the story culminates in the return of Christ being world peace.

To die during the 7 vials punishment is to die in 'great tribulation'. When people die prior to the day of the return they go to sleep and wake up at the Great White Throne with their sins being washed away. The ones that die yet remain awake mock Satan during that period of time so that is their time of repenting so they can also appear before God at the Great White Throne while being viewed as being sinless.

There will be great tribulation before humanity comes to its senses to recognise the returned Christ and there were great tribulations to bring the peoples of the Roman empire to an understanding of Christ.

I can see from your interpretation you take many verses literally.

And the only mistake God made was not knowing the difference between a day and a year. After that how wierd can my version possibly sound?? lol

As weird as the day for a year may be in biblical prophecy, at least there is broad agreement amongst biblical scholars as to this approach.

I haven't heard your particular version of events before, so am wondering if it is your own work in interpreting scripture. No problem if it is. Just curious.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Then don't claim to be teaching the Bible.

I think we should both put down the stones and consider the original OP. Based on Matthew 25 there is a legitimate concern about the state of the world and if it is so bad that Christ is about to return. You know my opinion about that by now, as I know yours.

Both of us have a right to our perspective about the bible.