May I ask of our Muslim Friends.

[K.Venugopal]

look, brother you have mentioned 2 things, 1st the stone is the direction of prayer, the real direction is the Masjid al Haram where the Kabaa (Black Cube) is located. that is our Kibla (direcection) I hope this part is clear, the stone is not. Remember the stone is only in one of the four sides but people perform prayers around the cube.

When prayers are performed around or towards the Black Cube, it is the same as prayers being performed around or towards the Black Stone as the Black Stone is embedded in the Black Cube.

Moreover, I said, if you feel it is an extra ordinary stone, from the way you are thinking i agree with you, but see brother in Islam we admire the painter not the painting. the stone was also created, Allah creates but is not created so, we dont feel any created things are extra ordinary. our creator is far superior. for him to create a million Jesus is just like that and to create a million of these kind of stones is just like that. We are too much used to miracles, in this world there are alot of amazing things, for more information i suggest you can study from Harun Yahya videos about Islamic Creationism, I hope my explaination was clear enough.

It is true that a painting cannot come into existence without a painter but it is also true that a painter cannot come into existence without his painting. This same logic can be applied to the Creator and His creation. The Creator and the created are both dependent on the other to exist (in their respective states). Therefore the logic that Allah creates but is not created is erroneous. Allah becomes the Creator by virtue of His creation. Therefore do not imagine that created things are not extraordinary. But for them, there would be no Allah the Creator. Where does Allah disappear then? Into the state of Brahman, says Hinduism. I do not believe there is a parallel concept in Islam. Therefore you are unlikely to understand this concept unless you have been introduced to Hinduism.

This is also the greatest flaw of Islam - its contention that the Creator and the created are separate. They are not separate for the simple reason that one cannot exist without the other. And Islam (to the best of my understanding) does not touch on the subject of the state when the twain (Creator-created) no longer exist in their respective states. Only Hinduism, I think, goes into this rarified realm.

 

[Popeyesays]

"This is also the greatest flaw of Islam - its contention that the Creator and the created are separate. They are not separate for the simple reason that one cannot exist without the other. And Islam (to the best of my understanding) does not touch on the subject of the state when the twain (Creator-created) no longer exist in their respective states."
That's an interpretation of course, I don't agree with it mind you, but it's an interpretation. I don't think it is even universal in Hinduism.

Regards,
Scott

 

[nawab]

Listen, first you are saying something of what you do not know praying to the Kaaba is only to create unity among the Universal Muslim brothers, so that every muslim around the world is praying in one direction. to create unity. I will come to Hinduism later i am a student of comparitive religion. i have knowledge in Hindu Scriptures. We do not pray towards the stone, we pray towards the Kaaba again but directed to Allah, I dont know where have you heard this from but the Kaaba is just like our direction and the stone just to bear witness, we Humans are the best of creations, better than any other living things. Ashraaf ul Maklukaat.

Allah was still exsisting before the creation of man, for his pleasure his angels are enough, we Humans were created as the best of living creatures to pass our test in this life and to enter paradise if we pass this exam. Yes the painter can also come into exsistence with a different painting, he doesnt have to be admired through a particular painting. Allah is not disappeared anywhere he likes to observe How obedient are we, Are we fit to enter paradise or not.

Now, back to Hinduism, Hindu is a geogrophical description, any person who living below the Himaliyas and who lives beyond the river Sindh is a Hindu, this word was initially formed by the Persian Muslims Conquerers agreed by the british and according to Encycopidia Britannia. as according to this word I am also a Hindu as i live under the Himaliyas and over the river Sindh. I am originally from Pakistan. the real word is Sanatan Dharm (Eternal Faith) or Ved Dharm (vedic Religion)

the Kaaba was created for our unity, we do not approve what Hinduism states 4 classes, Brahmans(priests), Kshatriyas(warriors), Vaisya (merchants), Sudra(servants). People who are not in this category are classified as Untouchables i dont even think they are considered humans. They have absolutely no right in the Hindu Society. We like to increase our brotherhood not to distort it.

No wonder, many untouchables are converting to Christanity and Islam. My Family orginally from the family of Maharajah Jodha Rao of Jodhpur, my great grand father converted to Islam by Allahs grace. from Rao Amar Singh to Nawab Nader Ali Khan. many others are converting everyday from Hinduism to other faiths and why is that. The national poet of Pakistan Allama Muhammad Iqbal, his grand father being a brahamin converted to Islam. So, many Hindus converted to Islam.It is even mentioned in your own scriptures. According to Bhavishya Purana (about Future) in the Pratisarag Parv III Khand 3 Adhay 3 Shloka 10 to 27 Maharishi Vyas has prophesised:

At night, he of the angelic disposition, the shrewd man, in the guise of Pishacha said to Raja Bhoj, "O Raja! Your Arya Dharma has been made to prevail over all religions, but according to the commandments of Ishwar Parmatma, I shall enforce the strong creed of the meat eaters. My followers will be men circumcised, without a tail (on his head), keeping beard, creating a revolution announcing the Aadhaan (the Muslim call for prayer) and will be eating all lawful things. He will eat all sorts of animals except swine. They will not seek purification from the holy shrubs, but will be purified through warfare. On account of their fighting the irreligious nations, they will be known as Musalmaans. I shall be the originator of this religion of the meat-eating nations."

May Allah give us all guidiance to learn the truth

 

[K.Venugopal]

"This is also the greatest flaw of Islam - its contention that the Creator and the created are separate. They are not separate for the simple reason that one cannot exist without the other. And Islam (to the best of my understanding) does not touch on the subject of the state when the twain (Creator-created) no longer exist in their respective states."
That's an interpretation of course, I don't agree with it mind you, but it's an interpretation. I don't think it is even universal in Hinduism.

Regards,
Scott

Your response is great. You did not take a position that this is right or that is wrong. You can see all possibilities. You have indeed the universal mind. To create this mind is the purpose of religion or spirituality. Let there be and flower a thousand religions and view points. So long as we are able to have universal minds in our midst, what matters it? You are truly a spiritual man of religion.

 

[Popeyesays]

Your response is great. You did not take a position that this is right or that is wrong. You can see all possibilities. You have indeed the universal mind. To create this mind is the purpose of religion or spirituality. Let there be and flower a thousand religions and view points. So long as we are able to have universal minds in our midst, what matters it? You are truly a spiritual man of religion.

Kind words, thank you.

You might appreciate this written by Shoghi Effendi approximately 1933:
"1The fundamental principle enunciated by Bahá'u'lláh ... is that religious truth is not absolute but relative, that Divine Revelation is a continuous and progressive process, that all the great religions of the world are divine in origin, that their basic principles are in complete harmony, that their aims and purposes are one and the same, that their teachings are but facets of one truth, that their functions are complementary, that they differ only in the nonessential aspects of their doctrines, and that their missions represent successive stages in the spiritual evolution of human society.... "The Promised Day is Come, Shoghi Effendi, page i.

Regards,
Scott

 

[K.Venugopal]

Listen, first you are saying something of what you do not know praying to the Kaaba is only to create unity among the Universal Muslim brothers, so that every muslim around the world is praying in one direction. to create unity. I will come to Hinduism later i am a student of comparitive religion. i have knowledge in Hindu Scriptures. We do not pray towards the stone, we pray towards the Kaaba again but directed to Allah, I dont know where have you heard this from but the Kaaba is just like our direction and the stone just to bear witness, we Humans are the best of creations, better than any other living things. Ashraaf ul Maklukaat.

I am still confused. You say that the Black Stone bears witness. When I asked how an inert stone can bear witness, you said Allah can make everything possible. A stone bearing witness is acceptable to Islam and is not considered idolatry. Is it not akin to stones (idols) in Hinduism bearing witness and more? Why did Mohammad destroy all the idols in Mecca (and his followers elsewhere) but retain just this stone?

Now, back to Hinduism, Hindu is a geogrophical description, any person who living below the Himaliyas and who lives beyond the river Sindh is a Hindu, this word was initially formed by the Persian Muslims Conquerers agreed by the british and according to Encycopidia Britannia. as according to this word I am also a Hindu as i live under the Himaliyas and over the river Sindh. I am originally from Pakistan. the real word is Sanatan Dharm (Eternal Faith) or Ved Dharm (vedic Religion)

I agree with your view point on the geographical origin of the word ‘Hindu’ but it is not true that it originated with the ‘Persian Muslim Conquerors’. India (which name also traces its origin to the name Sindu) had links with Persia even before Islam.

the Kaaba was created for our unity, we do not approve what Hinduism states 4 classes, Brahmans(priests), Kshatriyas(warriors), Vaisya (merchants), Sudra(servants). People who are not in this category are classified as Untouchables i dont even think they are considered humans. They have absolutely no right in the Hindu Society. We like to increase our brotherhood not to distort it.

Don’t you have the Mullahs, the Army, the Businessmen and the ordinary unskilled Workers in Saudi Arabia? So what is wrong with Hinduism having such a classification? And the untouchables – well, in Mecca non-believers or Kafirs are not allowed in – that’s a sort of untouchability.

No wonder, many untouchables are converting to Christanity and Islam. My Family orginally from the family of Maharajah Jodha Rao of Jodhpur, my great grand father converted to Islam by Allahs grace. from Rao Amar Singh to Nawab Nader Ali Khan. many others are converting everyday from Hinduism to other faiths and why is that. The national poet of Pakistan Allama Muhammad Iqbal, his grand father being a brahamin converted to Islam. So, many Hindus converted to Islam.

Talking about conversions, your forefathers were obviously not untouchables because you say you come from a royal family. This proves that your forefathers were able to convert because Hinduism believes in the validity of all religions. This is unlike Islam where you are treated as an apostate if you convert and you can be killed for it.

It is even mentioned in your own scriptures. According to Bhavishya Purana (about Future) in the Pratisarag Parv III Khand 3 Adhay 3 Shloka 10 to 27 Maharishi Vyas has prophesised: At night, he of the angelic disposition, the shrewd man, in the guise of Pishacha said to Raja Bhoj, "O Raja! Your Arya Dharma has been made to prevail over all religions, but according to the commandments of Ishwar Parmatma, I shall enforce the strong creed of the meat eaters. My followers will be men circumcised, without a tail (on his head), keeping beard, creating a revolution announcing the Aadhaan (the Muslim call for prayer) and will be eating all lawful things. He will eat all sorts of animals except swine. They will not seek purification from the holy shrubs, but will be purified through warfare. On account of their fighting the irreligious nations, they will be known as Musalmaans. I shall be the originator of this religion of the meat-eating nations."

It is interesting that a Hindu scripture was able to predict about a religion yet to be born but Quran has not mentioned anything about Hinduism which was alive and thriving. Does this indicate the limitation of the Quran?

 

[K.Venugopal]

You might appreciate this written by Shoghi Effendi approximately 1933:
"1The fundamental principle enunciated by Bahá'u'lláh ... is that religious truth is not absolute but relative, that Divine Revelation is a continuous and progressive process, that all the great religions of the world are divine in origin, that their basic principles are in complete harmony, that their aims and purposes are one and the same, that their teachings are but facets of one truth, that their functions are complementary, that they differ only in the nonessential aspects of their doctrines, and that their missions represent successive stages in the spiritual evolution of human society.... "The Promised Day is Come, Shoghi Effendi, page i.

I am thrilled to read this. I think this saying of Baha'u'llah is worthy of being embossed in gold on all the walls of religious houses across the world.

 

[nawab]

Now, i have informed you alittle bit about Hinduism, and we can proceed now.

1) Having a stone to bear witness is not Idoltry, we do not worship it, seek aid, or forgiviness from the Black stone, but Hindus they do with the idols right that it is Idoltry, you are even going against your own Religion where it is mentioned in Yajurved Na Tas Ya Pratima asti (sanskrit quotation) Of him there is no Pratima (it can be translated Picture, Sculpture, Photo, Idol) ask your own scholars for more reference.

2) Muhammad destroyed all Idols accept the stone, because the stone is not an idol, moreover the companion of our Prophet PBUH Bilal, the stand on the Kaaba to give the Adhan (the call of prayer)
which Pandit will stand on the statue of Lord Shiva to perform the Mantra.

3) Suppose, The name Hindu is not found by Muslim Conqureres, i dont mind but still why do you use it as an identification of your followers, the word is not mentioned in any of the original test in any of the vedas, Puranas, Smritis or shrutis. The name was later included.

4) Good Counter Arguement, but not logical we have Mullahs, Warriors, Bussiness man, Servants. but we dont have a difference of social status. We dont say that a servant cannot go to the house of the Mullah or the Mullah cannot eat from the servants. we dont have a caste system. When i was small i used to be proud calling myself a Rajput when later i studied more about islamic Universal brotherhood and then i knew what kind of fool was I. We pray Shoulder to shoulder to earase the Devil of Racism/Casteism. You claim that Brahmins are higher in status then the 3 castes, the Kshatriyas are higer than the 2 castes. You guys can even inter-marriage. Eat food from the same table and even drink from the same glass, Can you imagine even among the Hindus there is no brotherhood.

Dude you know very well that the Untouchables Dalits i was talking about had nothing to do with Meccas and non-muslims. further explained in point 4.

4) Every religion has two kind of people Beleivers and non-beleivers A Christian and a non-Christian (Gentile), A Jew and a Non-Jew (Akum), A Hindu and a non-Hindu, A muslim and a non-Muslim(Kafir).I dont see how you were trying to put a false allegation on us, Unfortunately you were unsuccessful. Mecca is a Members Zone, Anyone wants to enter have to become a Member, and the criteria to becoming a member is to become a Muslim. The place where i lived in China before, in Xinjiang, there were offlimits to me because of the Army Base of China, I dont go around telling people they dont let me enter a Military base, they are discriminating me.it would be stupid.

 

[nawab]

5) You are right, our family were not untouchable, However, My Great Fathers tomb is still in the Battlefield of Marwar. He converted to Islam, leaving everything behind and to reside in Sodawas, later my grandfather moved to Pakistan but i dont want to whine about the sacrifices but obviously there was also difficulty but that his besides my point. Hinduism does not beleives in validity of all religions. During the time of Jains, Jains were prosecuted, the Buddists were prosecuted, every minority was prosecuted. Just compare Pakistan and India in this sense. Do you hear any Hindu-Muslim riots in Pakistan. There are 3 million Hindus living in Karachi alone, How many muslims were living in Gujarat during the riots. less than 2 million. We follow Islamic rule in Pakistan thats why there is no trouble with Christians or Hindus but in India you are a seculeur country thats why there is so much conflicts. Beleive me all religions do that killing apostates. My Great grand father, I would say was someone with enough Power by Allahs blessings so no one could do him any harm.

6) Regarding Quran, I will only say that it was important for the Hindus to know about Islam but not for muslims to know about Hindus. Why,
If The Hindus follow thier own scriptures properly they should be converting to Islam, as the verse indicated before. For Muslims we are told in the Quran that we should not prioritize among Prophets, some Prophets stories are told and some are not told, thats besides the point. A prophet was sent every nation Quran 35:24, Today is the time of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH you should be following the Last Revealation the Quran as indicated before in your scripture, i will post again for you below:-

Pratisarag Parv III Khand 3 Adhay 3 Shloka 10 to 27 Maharishi Vyas has prophesised:

At night, he of the angelic disposition, the shrewd man, in the guise of Pishacha said to Raja Bhoj, "O Raja! Your Arya Dharma has been made to prevail over all religions, but according to the commandments of Ishwar Parmatma, I shall enforce the strong creed of the meat eaters. My followers will be men circumcised, without a tail (on his head), keeping beard, creating a revolution announcing the Aadhaan (the Muslim call for prayer) and will be eating all lawful things. He will eat all sorts of animals except swine. They will not seek purification from the holy shrubs, but will be purified through warfare. On account of their fighting the irreligious nations, they will be known as Musalmaans. I shall be the originator of this religion of the meat-eating nations."

May Allah Showers his guidiance on all,

P.S. I apologise if i have hurt anyones feelings, i was just quoting scriptures with Logic. If i am wrong i am always open for corrections.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Having a stone to bear witness is not Idoltry, we do not worship it, seek aid, or forgiviness from the Black stone, but Hindus they do with the idols right that it is Idoltry,

First of all, you mention the word idolatry as if it is a big crime to be worshippers of idols. It may be so for Islam, but it is not for Hinduism. Hinduism does not restrict itself to any specific form of worship. In Islam, for example, it appears your worship is not accepted by Allah unless you address your prayers towards (even if not to) a stone in Mecca called the Black Stone or a structure called the Black Cube. The irony is that Allah has appointed a Black Stone to be the witness as to whether you have actually worshipped Allah or not. That is, Allah accepts Islamic prayers only through the witness of a stone but Muslims insist that they pray to Allah without a stone!

... you are even going against your own Religion where it is mentioned in Yajurved Na Tas Ya Pratima asti (sanskrit quotation) Of him there is no Pratima (it can be translated Picture, Sculpture, Photo, Idol) ask your own scholars for more reference.

There are many Hindu scriptures unlike Islam which has only one scripture. If Muslims find that some Hindu scriptures speak in the vein of the Quran, they ought to be proud of those Hindu scriptures. Hindus can choose whichever scripture they want to follow. Muslims do not have such a choice.

Muhammad destroyed all Idols accept the stone, because the stone is not an idol,

Mohammad of course had the right not to believe in idol worship and begin a religion that did not perform idol worship but believes in a stone that bears witness. But what right had he to destroy idols of other religions? His inspiration was Abraham who bestowed the legacy of destroying idols by first destroying the idol his own father worshipped!

… moreover the companion of our Prophet PBUH Bilal, the stand on the Kaaba to give the Adhan (the call of prayer) which Pandit will stand on the statue of Lord Shiva to perform the Mantra.

Maybe Mohammad’s companion Bilal did it before Mohammad kissed the stone. Does anyone stand on the Kabaa now?

Suppose, The name Hindu is not found by Muslim Conqureres, i dont mind but still why do you use it as an identification of your followers, the word is not mentioned in any of the original test in any of the vedas, Puranas, Smritis or shrutis. The name was later included.

The word ‘Hindu’ may be a relatively new coinage. But Hindus generally are not averse to adopting a thing simply because it is new. Its choices have not frozen after a last prophet spoke the last word.

Good Counter Arguement, but not logical we have Mullahs, Warriors, Bussiness man, Servants. but we dont have a difference of social status. We dont say that a servant cannot go to the house of the Mullah or the Mullah cannot eat from the servants. we dont have a caste system.

Social mobility is a myth in most Islamic societies because most Islamic societies do not have democracy. Hindu society has always enjoyed social mobility because Hindu society has always been democratic. For example, the Vedas itself was compiled by a member of the “lower caste”. And today one of the greatest teachers of Hinduism is Mata Amritananda Mayi, also of the “lower caste” and a woman. Incidentally, women are not allowed in mosques in Islam whereas women are always the majority worshippers in Hindu temples.

When i was small i used to be proud calling myself a Rajput when later i studied more about islamic Universal brotherhood and then i knew what kind of fool was I. We pray Shoulder to shoulder to earase the Devil of Racism/Casteism. You claim that Brahmins are higher in status then the 3 castes, the Kshatriyas are higer than the 2 castes. You guys can even inter-marriage. Eat food from the same table and even drink from the same glass, Can you imagine even among the Hindus there is no brotherhood.

One day you will realize your error in talking about “Islamic Universal brotherhood”. Either you talk about Islamic brotherhood or Universal brotherhood. Islamic brotherhood falls far short of Universal brotherhood, which was propounded in the Vedas through the famous dictum “Vasudeva Kutumbakam”.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Dude you know very well that the Untouchables Dalits i was talking about had nothing to do with Meccas and non-muslims. further explained in point 4.

The untouchability you talk about is illegal in India and no Hindus are complaining. This has come about through Hindu social reformers. But the untouchability practiced in Mecca (of not allowing non-Muslims entry) is a legitimate tradition of Islam.

Every religion has two kind of people Beleivers and non-beleivers A Christian and a non-Christian (Gentile), A Jew and a Non-Jew (Akum), A Hindu and a non-Hindu, A muslim and a non-Muslim(Kafir).I dont see how you were trying to put a false allegation on us, Unfortunately you were unsuccessful.

The “Muslim/Kafir” dichotomy in Islam is not merely the “Hindu/non-Hindu” dichotomy in Hinduism. In Islam Kafirs are on the wrong path whereas in Hinduism the “non-Hindu” is on a different path, not necessarily a wrong path.

Mecca is a Members Zone, Anyone wants to enter have to become a Member, and the criteria to becoming a member is to become a Muslim. The place where i lived in China before, in Xinjiang, there were offlimits to me because of the Army Base of China, I dont go around telling people they dont let me enter a Military base, they are discriminating me.it would be stupid.

Just like Islam has its members’ zone and the Chinese Army has its members’ zone, different castes of Hindus had its members’ zones. So why do you have a problem with Hindus’ members’ zones alone?

You are right, our family were not untouchable, However, My Great Fathers tomb is still in the Battlefield of Marwar. He converted to Islam, leaving everything behind and to reside in Sodawas, later my grandfather moved to Pakistan but i dont want to whine about the sacrifices but obviously there was also difficulty but that his besides my point.

The Muslims from India who went to Pakistan are called Mohajirs (refugees) even today. The Hindus from Pakistan who came to India have been integrated with the rest of India’s Hindu society.

Hinduism does not beleives in validity of all religions. During the time of Jains, Jains were prosecuted, the Buddists were prosecuted, every minority was prosecuted. Just compare Pakistan and India in this sense. Do you hear any Hindu-Muslim riots in Pakistan. There are 3 million Hindus living in Karachi alone, How many muslims were living in Gujarat during the riots. less than 2 million.

According to the latest census, Pakistan’s population is 165 million. Of that less than 2% are Hindus. So your figure 3 million Hindus must be the total Hindus in Pakistan, unless all the Hindus of Pakistan live in Karachi. Pakistan is 4 times larger than Gujarat and has over 3 times the population. Gujarat’s population is a little over 50 million. 2 million Muslims would mean 4% of the population. All-India it is 150 million Muslims or 12% of the population.

We follow Islamic rule in Pakistan thats why there is no trouble with Christians or Hindus but in India you are a seculeur country thats why there is so much conflicts.

If there are no Hindu/Christian problems in Pakistan, it is because any trouble from them will not be tolerated in Pakistan. Just recently a Hindu was killed in a factory in Pakistan because he argued about Islam. In India Muslims have more rights than Hindus and having once ruled India, Muslims often try to flex their muscles and hence riots used to ensue. Now even riots are rare. Now the problem is Pakistani sponsored Islamic and non-Islamic terrorism in India.

Beleive me all religions do that killing apostates. My Great grand father, I would say was someone with enough Power by Allahs blessings so no one could do him any harm.

Islam sanctions killing of apostates. Hinduism does not have a tradition of killing apostates – in fact it does not even have the apostate concept in its scriptures. If it had, probably Islam would not have flourished in India.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Regarding Quran, I will only say that it was important for the Hindus to know about Islam but not for muslims to know about Hindus. Why, If The Hindus follow thier own scriptures properly they should be converting to Islam, as the verse indicated before.

Are you saying Hindu scriptures are like the Quran? If that is so, why don’t Muslims follow Hindu scriptures, at least Indian Muslims?

For Muslims we are told in the Quran that we should not prioritize among Prophets, some Prophets stories are told and some are not told, thats besides the point. A prophet was sent every nation Quran 35:24, Today is the time of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH you should be following the Last Revealation the Quran as indicated before in your scripture, i will post again for you below:

“Today is the time of the Prophet Mohammad”. I am afraid Mohammad’s time ended in the Middle Ages. Muslims were a powerful people at that time. They conquered a large portion of the world. But with a counter-attack from Christianity, Muslims were reduced to paupers with their last Caliph being dethroned by the British. Now once again the Muslims have arisen through Oil Wealth. But the arising is not good enough to dominate the world. The world is now in the hands of the Christian nations. The next powers are predicted to be India, China and Japan – all Hindu/Buddhist nations. The 22nd century? Only Allah knows.

Pratisarag Parv III Khand 3 Adhay 3 Shloka 10 to 27 Maharishi Vyas has prophesised: At night, he of the angelic disposition, the shrewd man, in the guise of Pishacha said to Raja Bhoj, "O Raja! Your Arya Dharma has been made to prevail over all religions, but according to the commandments of Ishwar Parmatma, I shall enforce the strong creed of the meat eaters. My followers will be men circumcised, without a tail (on his head), keeping beard, creating a revolution announcing the Aadhaan (the Muslim call for prayer) and will be eating all lawful things. He will eat all sorts of animals except swine. They will not seek purification from the holy shrubs, but will be purified through warfare. On account of their fighting the irreligious nations, they will be known as Musalmaans. I shall be the originator of this religion of the meat-eating nations."

The word Pishacha means devil. Why did Mohammad (or whoever) disguise as the devil? I once more ask, why when an ancient Hindu scripture(?) could predict Mohammad, the glorious Quran, said to be directly from Allah, has not written even a single sentence of the Hindu culture which existed for thousands of years before the Quran and continues to exist powerfully even today? Does it not mean that the Quran is only a provincial scripture whereas Hindu scriptures are universal?

Yajurved Na Tas Ya Pratima asti (sanskrit quotation) Of him there is no Pratima (it can be translated Picture, Sculpture, Photo, Idol)

Your quotation of this and other verses in the Vedas to prove that, just like the Quran, the Vedas also disapprove idol worship, is not correct. In Islam, disapproval is only of concrete idols made by hands. It has no problem with the “sound idol” called Allah. Hinduism goes further and teaches about a stage where there would be no need even for idols of the mind. This is because Hinduism teaches a stage of “no-mind” and Vedanta, part of the Vedas, is famous for this teaching. This proves that the Vedas are not disapproving idols like the Quran disapproves idols, but it is only pointing to a higher teaching where all dualities vanish and only the non-dual stage remain. It must be borne in mind that as long as you separate God and his Creation, God would remain an idol vis-à-vis his creation. Therefore all religions, Islam included, are idol worshipping religions except the teachings of non-duality in the Vedas.

May Allah Showers his guidiance on all,

Indeed, may Allah shower his guidance on all.

P.S. I apologise if i have hurt anyones feelings, i was just quoting scriptures with Logic. If i am wrong i am always open for corrections.

You have not hurt my feelings at all. If, however, I have hurt your feelings, I apologise. I am also always open to corrections.

 

[nawab]

Dear Bro,

I thought you were a knowledgeable person, but i think i was wrong so i will start from the begining
1) Achoot (untouchables) are they unaccepted, they only came into the society after Gandi ji lifted them up. Even if you seen the Film Mangal Pandey (Amir Khan) you will see how the Achoots were treated. Achoots mean cant be touched. If you cant touch your brother in faith what kind of religion are you worshipping. We pray shoulder to shoulder, You create difference of classes to get profits from.

2) Kafir means a person who rejects faith, it is used for Non-muslims, in Arab land if you call a non-muslim Arab a Kafir he wont be offended, it is only in the Sub continent people find it offensive because of non-tolerance. Yes, in Islam we beleive that we are the only ones, who are on the true path. If we are right than the rest have to wrong, I dont understand whats wrong with this doctrine. the Christians, Jews we all say that. However, for Hinduism you dont have anything to offer thats why you dont mind co-exsisting. Suppose i am a maths teacher my three students tell me A 2+2=4,B 2+3=4,C 2+4=4, I cant say that because i am a tolerant person, i love everyone so you all are right. I love them thats why i will say A is right and the rest are wrong.

3) Ok I agree with you for the sake of arguement that, the 4 classes are members zone, so i would still think that a society where everyone is equal is better than a society where there is someone supperior to me and inferior to me, I cant marry some women and some Women cant marry me. I cant eat with someone and someone cant eat with me. This is called Universal brotherhood, Maybe because you are too much indoctrinated by Caste system, you wont understand what brotherhood is. There is a problem when you have 4 zones within a zone. we have one zone only thats how it should be.

4) You say that Muhajjars (do not mean reffuges) if you dont know Urdu please dont put false allegations. Reffuges in urdu is Sehasi Panah, Muhajjars means people who migrated. Does Islam teaches us to say that. I am also considered a Muhajjar but my friends do joke about it but that dosent violate my rights, Mostly is the Punjabis (Locals) and Muhajjars(migrators) this is not a divison. Or even if there is we have learned this from Hindu society,the divisns, the Castes, the Wedding traditions, clothing of women, In Arab land thats how a real Muslim Society should be looking like.

5) MY friend we know very well that no one needs written rights, rights which are given but never practiced. Is there any discriminated law in India which is practiced no, In pakistan there is. Even though the population but we have less riots.

6) Thats what you think , Last time i was telling my Buddist friend from China, You are lucky the Hindus didnt killed Budda or you would have no religion by now.He was going to be killed when he ran away towards Sri Lanka. Many Christian converts were killed by Hindus. Islam would not have flourished in India, Where were your Kshatriyas when the Muslims conqurers came, you guys had more muslim kings, than hindu kings in the latest centries. read your history how many battles against the Muslims have the Hindus won, Rememeber the Temple of Somnath story about Sultan Mahmud Ghaznavi, Muhammad Gori, Sultan Qutb Shah, Muhammad bin Qasim,I didnt mentioned the Mughals, on the contrary the hindus submitted to the muslim rule without resistant. If we wanted to convert the whole India to islam by sword we could have done it but this was not allowed. Remember how the Muslim population increased when Auragzeb began his quest. Even i disapprove his actions seriously as a muslim. I just quoted him to prove my point. The Hindus are still 80% in India despite 1000 years of Muslim rule, The 80% Hindus should bear witness for muslims that we are tolerant people.

7) That was more like a retorical question, e.g. in windows 98 came, they advertised about a Windows 2000 that is comming, when Windows 2000 is here why do you need to talk about Windows 98, it is already Obselete. why do we need to use Windows 98 when we have a better version. real islam is from Arabia, it is not different for Indian Muslims.

8) dont worry ups & downs are always there, I rememeber my Christian proffesor he told me once that he admired Muslim spirits. I asked him why. he explained to me. Being a staunch Christian he approved the crusades which i could understood from his point of view. He told me .

that you Muslims have been a Challenge to us, you conqured the once Christian lands in north east coast of Africa and middle east never to be retaken, You even came to spain to rule for 800 years, you even came to knock on the Gates of Vienna. Whats more interesting is now, even when you are down in the gutters you still tell us Dont drink alcohol, dont eat pork, dont say Trinity, Jesus is only a messanger, dont go out with girls.

So, ups & downs are always there, plus we were informed about this already. Hopefully still at this age you can see the conversion rates to Islam from other relligions.

Plus you calling India a HIndu nation, i dont agree with that. India is a Seculer Country with no Official relligion. Nepal is the only Hindu nation in this world. Being leading nations for 100-200 years is nothing, this is only yesterday my friend. These are just there stratergies to increase investment.

9) I have already mentioned that you should inform people about the future and not about the past.
If your own book could predict why dont you follow it then, The prophecy was true we muslims came to India, This was the Chosen meat eating religion of Ishwar whose followers will be called Musalman. There is even a prophecy about our Prophet Muhammad is called a Melecha was ride a camel(a brahmin cannot ride a camel) in a desert and delivere a universal religion. We should not focus on the past but rather look into the future ahead to plan.

9) Finally, I just want you to be honest with yourself when you think about Allah in your mind, does any picture comes in your mind. I have completey no idea what your saying Islam is the leader of religions which do not require an idol. We Muslims from the begining have reached a higer concentration stage. This is a universal fact the we muslims dont worship idols.on the contrary we forbid monasticism, Fortune telling, Horescope of stars, Seeking aid from PIRS, Gurus, we consider these all things to be as Idiol worshipping. We only beleive in Al Qadar - The Divine Decree of Destiny

Peace be on those who receive guidiance

 

[K.Venugopal]

Dear Bro, I thought you were a knowledgeable person, but i think i was wrong so i will start from the beginning Achoot (untouchables) are they unaccepted, they only came into the society after Gandi ji lifted them up.

Dear Brother Nawab, It was possible for Gandhiji to lift up the untouchables within the Hindu fold because the idea of oneness is the very basis of Hinduism. Due to some historical faltering, a section of Hindu society became untouchables. But this is not sanctioned by Hinduism. In today’s newspaper (the Asian Age) I read that Muslim leadership is trying to have joint prayers by Shias and Sunnis during Id. They say if it can be done during Hajj why not during Id? Just as due to some historical developments, Shias and Sunnis started praying separately; similarly due to some historical developments a part of Hindu society became untouchable. Hindu social reformers have striven hard to abolish the practice.

Even if you seen the Film Mangal Pandey (Amir Khan) you will see how the Achoots were treated. Achoots mean cant be touched. If you cant touch your brother in faith what kind of religion are you worshipping. We pray shoulder to shoulder, You create difference of classes to get profits from.

But you don’t allow women into your mosques. I hope Islamic social reformers will finally succeed in bringing equality in mosque entry. Today there is no restriction of entry of all Hindus in most of the temples. In some major temples, they allow entry to everyone, even non-Hindus. There now remain only a few temples that restrict entry to “upper castes” and Hindu social reformers will eventually free them also. I hope at least by that time women will be allowed entry into all mosques.

2) Kafir means a person who rejects faith,

Kafir means a person who rejects Islamic faith and it also implies that a person who rejects Islamic faith is in error. It is hence derogatory word, unlike the word ‘non-Hindu’, which is only an identifying word.

it is used for Non-muslims, in Arab land if you call a non-muslim Arab a Kafir he wont be offended, it is only in the Sub continent people find it offensive because of non-tolerance.

Hindus find the word offensive not because Hindus are intolerant but because Hindus accept other faiths also as legitimate.

Yes, in Islam we beleive that we are the only ones, who are on the true path.

For me, this is a very shameful statement. Shameful that someone should be so narrow minded.

If we are right than the rest have to wrong, I dont understand whats wrong with this doctrine.

. I sympathize with you, that your religion has taught you to be so narrow minded that you are not even aware that you are being narrow minded! To say only your religion is true is similar to saying that only your language is true. Of course there are many language bigots. But no educated person can accept that only his language is legitimate and all other languages are worthless.

the Christians, Jews we all say that. However, for Hinduism you dont have anything to offer thats why you dont mind co-exsisting.

Hinduism has much to offer, most of all its legacy of broad-mindedness. That is why it is able to say that all religions are legitimate.

Suppose i am a maths teacher my three students tell me A 2+2=4,B 2+3=4,C 2+4=4, I cant say that because i am a tolerant person, i love everyone so you all are right. I love them thats why i will say A is right and the rest are wrong.

Mathematics is not a matter of faith. So you can’t compare mathematical certainties with Islam, which is only a belief. That there is Allah is not universally acknowledged as a fact. It is only believed so by Muslims. 1 + 1 does not require any believing. It has already been proven to be a fact. Saying 1 + 1 = 2 and therefore Islam is true is trying to see a connection where there is none. Dr. Zakir Naik, who famously made this comparison, was being quite illogical.

 

[K.Venugopal]

3) Ok I agree with you for the sake of arguement that, the 4 classes are members zone, so i would still think that a society where everyone is equal is better than a society where there is someone supperior to me and inferior to me,

Until Islam accepts that other religions are also equally valid, just as Hinduism does, Islam cannot envisage a universal society where everyone is equal. In fact, a society where everyone is equal is still an ideal. Hinduism envisages such a society with its vision of Advaita. I am afraid Islam even in theory does not envisage such a principle. It only talks of brotherhood of Islamic believers.

I cant marry some women and some Women cant marry me. I cant eat with someone and someone cant eat with me. This is called Universal brotherhood,

Such segregation in Hinduism remains only in some villages in India today. Hindu leadership has been successful in its on-going fight against such tendencies.

Maybe because you are too much indoctrinated by Caste system, you wont understand what brotherhood is. There is a problem when you have 4 zones within a zone. we have one zone only thats how it should be.

Whether we have 4 zones or 1 zone or zones within zones, we are still in zones. The ideal is to be free from all zones and have universal brotherhood. Till then, we are all travelling in the same boat.

4) You say that Muhajjars (do not mean reffuges) if you dont know Urdu please dont put false allegations. Reffuges in urdu is Sehasi Panah, Muhajjars means people who migrated. Does Islam teaches us to say that. I am also considered a Muhajjar but my friends do joke about it but that dosent violate my rights, Mostly is the Punjabis (Locals) and Muhajjars(migrators) this is not a divison. Or even if there is we have learned this from Hindu society,the divisns, the Castes, the Wedding traditions, clothing of women, In Arab land thats how a real Muslim Society should be looking like.

You appear to be saying that you have retained some Hindu traditions but you are ashamed of it and would rather have incorporated the traditions of Arab lands, who are a truer Islamic society. I have no quarrel if you wish to see the Arabs as role models and forget all your links with your Hindu past. The truth is that you can change your religion but you cannot change your father or forefathers. You cannot say your father is no longer your father because you have changed your religion. You cannot declare that Arabs are your forefathers when Hindus from Hindustan were your forefathers. But if that is what you wish to do, I have no quarrel.

5) MY friend we know very well that no one needs written rights, rights which are given but never practiced. Is there any discriminated law in India which is practiced no, In pakistan there is. Even though the population but we have less riots.

In Pakistan the non-Muslims are second class citizens.

6) Thats what you think , Last time i was telling my Buddist friend from China, You are lucky the Hindus didnt killed Budda or you would have no religion by now.He was going to be killed when he ran away towards Sri Lanka.

No religious leader has been killed by the Hindus, let alone Buddha, because Hinduism believes in the plurality of religions. It is only Islam which sanctions the killing of non-believers. The great Sufi Mansoor Al Hilaj was killed by Muslims because he said “Ane Al Haq” or “I am the Truth”.

Many Christian converts were killed by Hindus. Islam would not have flourished in India, Where were your Kshatriyas when the Muslims conqurers came, you guys had more muslim kings, than hindu kings in the latest centries. read your history how many battles against the Muslims have the Hindus won, Rememeber the Temple of Somnath story about Sultan Mahmud Ghaznavi, Muhammad Gori, Sultan Qutb Shah, Muhammad bin Qasim,I didnt mentioned the Mughals, on the contrary the hindus submitted to the muslim rule without resistant. If we wanted to convert the whole India to islam by sword we could have done it but this was not allowed.

India, fortunately, was not destined to be an Islamic country. Today Kashmir is being sought to be snatched away from India in the name of religion. Such attempts would be unsuccessful. In fact, Pakistan, which was formed in the name of Islam, split into two within 25 years. Today in Pakistan Sunnis and Shias attack each others’ mosques regularly.

Remember how the Muslim population increased when Auragzeb began his quest. Even i disapprove his actions seriously as a muslim. I just quoted him to prove my point.

It is no wonder that you disapprove of Aurangzeb’s action - he was responsible for the end of Islamic rule in India. This happened because he sought to impose fundamentalist Islam, including jiziya, on the Hindus. The Hindu backlash on Aurangzeb should be a lesson for fundamentalist Islamists of today who take to terrorism.

The Hindus are still 80% in India despite 1000 years of Muslim rule, The 80% Hindus should bear witness for muslims that we are tolerant people.

That is because Hinduism has deep roots in India and it was not possible for Islam to uproot it though Islam succeeded in cutting off many of its branches, resulting in the creation of an Islamic nation called Pakistan.

That was more like a retorical question, e.g. in windows 98 came, they advertised about a Windows 2000 that is comming, when Windows 2000 is here why do you need to talk about Windows 98, it is already Obselete. why do we need to use Windows 98 when we have a better version. real islam is from Arabia, it is not different for Indian Muslims.

. Windows keep updating their versions. It has not stopped, like Islam, to declare that its latest version is the final version for all times.

 

[K.Venugopal]

dont worry ups & downs are always there, I rememeber my Christian proffesor he told me once that he admired Muslim spirits. I asked him why. he explained to me. Being a staunch Christian he approved the crusades which i could understood from his point of view. He told me that you Muslims have been a Challenge to us, you conqured the once Christian lands in north east coast of Africa and middle east never to be retaken, You even came to spain to rule for 800 years, you even came to knock on the Gates of Vienna. Whats more interesting is now, even when you are down in the gutters you still tell us Dont drink alcohol, dont eat pork, dont say Trinity, Jesus is only a messanger, dont go out with girls. So, ups & downs are always there, plus we were informed about this already.

I am happy you recognize that ups and downs exist and the followers of Islam are also subject to it. This proves that Islam is just one of the many religions and is not unique.

Hopefully still at this age you can see the conversion rates to Islam from other relligions.

. If all the many Muslim countries are democratized and become secular, with Islam no longer being the official state religion and all religions are given the freedom of propagation, Islam will quickly be transformed into Sufism because Sufism is a spiritual culture which would be more relevant in the lives of Muslims. This is proved by the larger number of Muslims who visit Sufi shrines in India than mosques.

Plus you calling India a HIndu nation, i dont agree with that. India is a Seculer Country with no Official relligion. Nepal is the only Hindu nation in this world. Being leading nations for 100-200 years is nothing, this is only yesterday my friend. These are just there stratergies to increase investment.

Islam itself is less than 1,500 years old. Mankind had lived for many thousands of years before Islam. Hinduism is today the oldest extant religion in the world. Even with just one Quran and one Prophet, Islam split into two major denominations barely 50 years after the death of Mohammad and subsequently into many more sub-denominations.

I have already mentioned that you should inform people about the future and not about the past. If your own book could predict why dont you follow it then,

Hindus have the freedom to choose which scripture to follow. Hindu culture does not force everyone to follow just one scripture as Islam does.

The prophecy was true we muslims came to India, This was the Chosen meat eating religion of Ishwar whose followers will be called Musalman. There is even a prophecy about our Prophet Muhammad is called a Melecha was ride a camel(a brahmin cannot ride a camel) in a desert and delivere a universal religion.

Mohammad never delivered a universal religion. He delivered a religion which wants to force everyone to accept his religion. For creating a universal religion, the propagator of the religion must first have a universal mind. Mohammad certainly did not have a universal mind. His mind did not go beyond the Bedouin culture of his times. This is proven by his marrying a nine year old girl when he was 54.

We should not focus on the past but rather look into the future ahead to plan.

You feel this way and it is great. But unfortunately Islam is stuck in the times of the middle ages.

Finally, I just want you to be honest with yourself when you think about Allah in your mind, does any picture comes in your mind.

When I think of Allah I think of Islam.

I have completey no idea what your saying Islam is the leader of religions which do not require an idol. We Muslims from the begining have reached a higer concentration stage. This is a universal fact the we muslims dont worship idols.on the contrary we forbid monasticism, Fortune telling, Horescope of stars, Seeking aid from PIRS, Gurus, we consider these all things to be as Idiol worshipping. We only beleive in Al Qadar - The Divine Decree of Destiny

You are concluding that Islam does not worship idols because you consider as idols only that which is made out of things like stone, wood, bronze etc. But words are also material. So to say Allah is also to be creating an idol. Though this may be a higher stage than worshipping idols of gross material, the highest stage is silence. Therefore till we reach the level of silence, we could be said to be at the level of idol worship, from grosser to subtler levels.

Peace be on those who receive guidiance

Pease be on all, for all receive His guidance in so many ways.

 

[nawab]

Dear Gopal Ji, Whether Gandi Ji, tried to uplift the society or not,thats totally out of the question
The fact is that the priests of Hinduism, Brahmins they used the Kshatriyas to dominate others in the name of religion. Do you understand what caste is. suppose i agree with you that Gandi Ji uplifted the untouchable he only upgraded them to Hari Jan (Sons of God) but that was still the 5 caste not as equal as brahmins, you can see that you guys have devadasis(temple prostitutes) it is legally defined of the lower caste avaialble to the higer caste. these castes are mentioned in your scriptures. Gandi Ji is 0% in HInduism i judge Hinduism on the basis of the scriptures whatever you say or some other Pandit says, It meaningless carries no weight, like i am 0% in islam and everyone else in 0% except Prophet Muhammd, after his death there is no addition or subraction.

Now regarding Sunnis & Shias, having Joint prayers alhamdulilah it is a good news if they doing, yet again Sunnis & Shias are only drivers, I am promoting the car (Islam) not drivers. Shias they have a different way of performing the Salaat so if now they can come to common agreements then it is good. even if we dont the shias & sunnis are different but yet are equal not who is inferior or who is superior, Many shias & sunnis have inter-marriages there is absolutely no sectarian rights. If they are a Muslim they are equal but if they are not muslims then they are not equal. If it is our country then We have to be the dominate ones. LIke Qadiyanis they are not mulsims so they are 2nd class citizens. Yet you should see first what is the difference between the rights of 1st class & 2nd Class. then judge.Yet again Praying differently not together doesnt mean anything. Neither are Sunnis uperior nor are Shias to each other.

2) Women into Mosques, Find me one verse from the Quran, Ahaddith anywhere which says that a woman cannot go to mosque. it is only prefered for women to pray in their houses where it is more convinenent for them as our ideal women models are basically household oriented. so it would be hard for them to take care of the house and go to mosques thats why our prophet told them it is better for you to pray at home. No one has the right to deny entry into any mosque not even the imam of the mosque as it is a house of Allah. nomatter it is for women or non-muslims, shias or sunnis no one can stop anyonefrom entering the mosque.

3) Look if i dont beeleive my religion to be real one, then there is really no point in beleiving it. We beleive that our doctrine is the only true path and the rest are not. You can disproof it just find one error in it, any contradiction or any absurdies in the quran and it will prove it wrong. but so far no one as disproof it. I dont think this is narrow minded. You think this is narrow minded. You cant say evryone is true this is hipocrasy. if everyone is true why dont all the hindus convert to other religions. Tell me what does hinduism have to offer, tell us the creation of this universe base on the scriptures, what is the purpose of a human being in this world, what will happen in the future. you dont have answers to these questions.

4) you said that Allah is not a fact, neither you can prove him nor disprove him. This is a fact that there as to be a one true God almighty this universe is far too complicated and perfect, it cannot come to exsistence by itself. if Mathematics cant be judge in religion you gave a comparison of language, it can be said the same. For Dr Zakir Naik he is a logical person, he had proven alot of things. The authencity of the Quran and other scriptures, I suggest you watch the debate between Dr Zakir Naik & Sr Sri Ravi Shankar on Islam and Hinduism.

5) Tell me about universal brotherhood, how many Africans are hindus, but in islam we have indians, arabs, whites & blacks, Americans & British, Chinese & SE Asians our religion spreads through the whole world. Tell me about Hinduism you have a nationality within a religion if a white guy converts to hinduism according to your scholars the brahmins they are still recgoinized as achoots (untouchables). The thing is you have only seen Muslims who live in India, you have not seen the real islamic brotherhood so it is an ideal for you, i hope one day you will see it.

6)You said that Hinduism are fighting for tendancies but what i hear on the news is that Hindu brides are burned alive for thier incapability to pay dowries to thier husbands family. We muslims give dowry to our wives not take from them. We can just talk about sppression of women in hinduism. you can watch the film Water where poor Hindu Widows are forced to shave off thier heads and not to remarry and some turn into temple prostitutes and some little girls are married and their husband are so old that they die and they are widowed at the age of 8 years old. can you beleive this.

I Know that you are traveling in what boat the difference is in which class are you on the boat, 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th, or the rest. I have given you an example when we pray we have to pray from sholder to sholder with our brother, but as you said some temples are only for higher class can you beleive this again, my God, a temple only for the higher class suppose if you are unluckily brought up in a low class family, it is not your fault but You cannot enter the temple of God. i think you should really think about your religion carefully. Now i am getting worried for you.

7) I am ashamed of any customs or traditions which are in Islam because of cultural influences, there is nothing addition into Islam, it was already finalized and nothing should be put into. Why i meant Arabn society is because their laws are islamic laws the society is purely Islamic. Not like ours in Pakistan where people still find Music is not a problem, Castes, wedding ceremonies. these are not in islam, i am not ashamed but i fear, these things, these things make you commit sins.

In islam every Muslim is our brother, no matter is from Anyplace in the world. My biological forefathers were in fact Hindu Indians but my spiritual family is all the muslims around the world, i cant because of my own selfishness betray the whole ideal Universal brotherhood. Even if my real biological father is turning against the truth, I will also have to Fight him. This is righteousness not saying you are also right and i am also right, this is nonsense.

 

[nawab]

8) regarding Sufism, it is a self doctrine of purification of the heart. No matter if you are a Sufi or a mullah if you are blaspheming then you should be punished. Sufis is a restricted version for muslims mainly only in India & Pakistan which is not a universal doctrine. These Sufis there acesters found a different approach to convert the non-muslims with a different methodology like monasticism, which is forbid in Islam. I like to promote Islam with Dawah not a different approach. by first asking them to come together and telling you are also right and i am aslo right so that the person converts because of the Sufi and not really understanding the signs of Islam. By the way visiting Sufi shrines are not a part of Islamic practices. On the contrary it is agaisnt Islam.

9) History is still being wriiten, you cannot say for sure who will become islamic or who wont. India will definately become an Islamic country, this is my gurantee to you in our life time or not. For your information the Kashmiris they are proud to be Kashmiris not Indians or Pakistanis you cant blame anyone for that, they want to be indepandent, they will have to fight the indians for that now regarding Pakistan, that was simple war before the Pakistanis took the Azad Kashmir if you think thats not nice, send your armies and recover it.

Dont forget that Islamic Rule was still in India, Till Mugal Baadshah Bahadur Shah Zafar, The muslims who fought in India were not remembered as patriots, so. yet Hindus have proven jis ki late uske bahense. Remember all you did was only riots killing poor people, did any hindu army fought a battle which the muslims lost. I hardly doubt it.

10) Hinduism being the oldest, these are just exaggerations by your scholars, your scholars dont even know when the Vedas were reavealed and to whom they were. They also agree that it is not in pure form. In Islam we beleive that the first man on earth Adam was a muslim. which is confirmed by Christian and Jewish scriptures that Adam is the first man, eveen today there are researches confirming this. Adam brought the message of Islam, all prophets brought the message of Islam. Prophet Muhammd was the final Prophet of Islam. Just tell me how old the vedas are to whom it were reaveled, what does it explains about th creation of man and universe, what does it talks about weather, geology, astronomy, embrology. Because God knew that the muslims would makes these discoveries pass teh m over to the british and bring them to you. Truley Hindusism doesnt force anyone to accept any scripture to follow thats why at the end you end up following none.

11) well i suppose that is the only difference between windows and religion. Look I challenge you to find a verse from the quran where it say that Force people to convert we are informed in the quran that Let there be no compulsion in religion. Just find one verse from the quran which allows us to slaughter non-muslim, this would make our job alot easier.

Michael H Hart (a non-muslim) wrote a book 100 most influential people in history, no.1 was prophet Muhammad PBUH, No.3 was Jesus PBUH, where was Ram and where was krishna. Why did he mentioned the prophet Muhammd to be no.1.

He married Aisha, he didnt rape her for your information plus she was sent to his house at the age of 12 when the age of puberty, but they did not have any sexual relations as she did not have a son. Whats the big deal of a 55 year old man marriying a 9 year old without sexual relations and how about those Hindu priest who have sex with child Temple prostitutes. you are the one who is narrow minded,

Our religion is not customer service where the followers are the customers, they are always right. Our prophet wanted people to beleive in his inspiration which was reaveled from God and wanted us to be like him, which unfortunately many of us have failed.

11) how about Hinduism, Hinduism is still in like the stone age or something, There is a temple of Lord Ganesh, where there are tens of thousand of rats in the temple and people are eating from the same plate with them, there is no hygene rules even in Hinduism, it is your religion which are only for the local hindus not to expanded to other parts. You know when the tourist go to India they are so afraid of the water over there, Any educated Hindu will become a athiest because he feels that religion is not compatible with science. Of course what scientific facts are mentioned in Hinduism.

Dear Scienitist, Can see a word, if your answer is no, then it is not an idol, if your answer is yes i suggest you seek psycatric counsuling before it is too late,

 

[K.Venugopal]

Dear Gopal Ji, Whether Gandi Ji, tried to uplift the society or not,thats totally out of the question The fact is that the priests of Hinduism, Brahmins they used the Kshatriyas to dominate others in the name of religion. Do you understand what caste is. suppose i agree with you that Gandi Ji uplifted the untouchable he only upgraded them to Hari Jan (Sons of God) but that was still the 5 caste not as equal as brahmins,

Dear Janab Nawab, The fact is that all castes of Hinduism lived together harmoniously over a long period of time because Hinduism allows every community its own sacred space. Unity in diversity is the hallmark of Hinduism. The castes were never at war with each other and there were no “upper-caste/lower-caste” allusions. They were all part and parcel of the Hindu society. But, as with all societies, Hindu society also had its ups and downs. In an unfortunate ‘down’ situation, upper caste/lower caste assumptions, untouchability and other social disruptions happened. Today Hinduism, as would be widely agreed, is once again on an ‘up’ situation and caste and other inequities are being overcome. A resurgent Hinduism is already inspiring the world with its spiritual concepts. Recently a fatwa was passed by Islamic scholars banning killing of cows. This is proof of wider respect for Hindu religious sentiments.

you can see that you guys have devadasis(temple prostitutes) it is legally defined of the lower caste avaialble to the higer caste. these castes are mentioned in your scriptures.

Is not slavery sanctioned in the Quran and slave girls made especially available to Mohammad? “Quran 33:50 - Prophet, We have made lawful for you your wives whom you have given their dowry, slave girls whom God has given to you as gifts …” Once sanctioned, forever sanctioned – that’s the unalterable Quran. Devadasis have become extinct in Hinduism today.

Gandi Ji is 0% in HInduism i judge Hinduism on the basis of the scriptures whatever you say or some other Pandit says, It meaningless carries no weight, like i am 0% in islam and everyone else in 0% except Prophet Muhammd, after his death there is no addition or subraction.

Probably you have to have said except for Allah, everyone else is a 0% in Islam. Isn’t Quran alone the word of Allah? The Quran has not sanctioned Mohammad’s hadiths and sunnah and Islam should be based only on the Quran. But how has Islam come to incorporate the hadiths and sunnah of Mohammad? Hinduism is not dependent wholly on any scripture or set of scriptures. Hinduism has traditions that need not necessarily be sourced to any scriptures. Hinduism also has its well-known Preceptor-Disciple tradition.

Now regarding Sunnis & Shias, having Joint prayers alhamdulilah it is a good news if they doing, yet again Sunnis & Shias are only drivers, I am promoting the car (Islam) not drivers.

What is the use of a car without a driver?

Shias they have a different way of performing the Salaat so if now they can come to common agreements then it is good.

. Salaat was introduced by Mohammad. Since you say that everyone other than Mohammad is 0% in Islam, why can’t all Muslims get their act together and perform Salaat like Mohammad taught? Did Mohammad give everyone the right to do Salaat as he or she wishes or is it a right seized by some for themselves?

even if we dont the shias & sunnis are different but yet are equal not who is inferior or who is superior, Many shias & sunnis have inter-marriages there is absolutely no sectarian rights.

How have the Shias and Sunnis become different in spite of following one Quran and one Allah? If there is difference then it amounts to being superior/inferior because Islam allows only one way to Allah and the Sunnis think their way alone is true and Shias think their way alone is true.

If they are a Muslim they are equal but if they are not muslims then they are not equal.

When you say “if they are not Muslims then they are not equal”, what does it mean? One is superior and the other inferior? So Islam may not have the superior/inferior categories within its particular religious denominations (just as castes or sub-castes may not have it within their castes or sub-castes) but it considers all who are not Muslims as outside the pale of religion and inter alia inferior.

If it is our country then We have to be the dominate ones. LIke Qadiyanis they are not mulsims so they are 2nd class citizens. Yet you should see first what is the difference between the rights of 1st class & 2nd Class. then judge.

Why do you treat non-Muslims as 2nd class citizens? And why was it decided that Ahmedias are not Muslims though they themselves claim to be so? Is this not a form of untouchability?

Yet again Praying differently not together doesnt mean anything.

This is how it should be. Hinduism has sanctioned freedom of worship but Islam has not. So are you contradicting Islam here?

Neither are Sunnis uperior nor are Shias to each other.

But are there not Sunni organizations in Pakistan which want the Shias to be declared non-Muslims? Why?

2) Women into Mosques, Find me one verse from the Quran, Ahaddith anywhere which says that a woman cannot go to mosque. it is only prefered for women to pray in their houses where it is more convinenent for them as our ideal women models are basically household oriented. so it would be hard for them to take care of the house and go to mosques thats why our prophet told them it is better for you to pray at home. No one has the right to deny entry into any mosque not even the imam of the mosque as it is a house of Allah. nomatter it is for women or non-muslims, shias or sunnis no one can stop anyonefrom entering the mosque.

A few years ago when the Imam of the famed Palayam Juma Masjid in Kerala took the historic decision to allow women to pray in his mosque, some moulvis issued fatwas against the entry of Muslim women into the mosque. The activists of Sunni Yuvajana Sangham (Sunni Youth Front) demonstrated outside the mosque where the women were praying. Perhaps the most vocal criticism of the Imam's decision came from Kanthapuram A.P. Abubacker Musaliar, General Secretary of the All India Jamiyyathul Ulama, who declared that women attending mosques for mass prayers, participating in public activities and sharing public venues with men are against the dictates of Shariat. You can consider the Imam of Palayam Mosque as a Muslim Gandhi trying to reform the Muslim society from within like Gandhi tried to reform the Hindu society from within. So the point is, Islam also needs reformation.

 

[K.Venugopal]

3) Look if i dont beeleive my religion to be real one, then there is really no point in beleiving it.

You may come to the conclusion that your religion is true and believe in it. But you should not deny others the right to come to a similar conclusion about their religions and continue to believe in them.

We beleive that our doctrine is the only true path and the rest are not. .

Can you please tell me what is there in your doctrine that confirms that it is the only true path?

You can disproof it just find one error in it, any contradiction or any absurdies in the quran and it will prove it wrong. but so far no one as disproof it.

Let me point out one error in the Quran. The Quran says Allah created life. This claim is an error because life was already there in Allah. So where was the question of creating it? It would amount to Allah having created Himself. But the Quran says Allah is uncreated. Saying Allah does not have life is an absurdity. Actually life and Allah are synonymous.

I dont think this is narrow minded. You think this is narrow minded. You cant say evryone is true this is hipocrasy. if everyone is true why dont all the hindus convert to other religions.

Conversion means to take to a new religion by denying one’s own religion. Hindus accept all religions as valid and legitimate and all are free to worship God as they wish.

Tell me what does hinduism have to offer,

Hinduism always had the greatest offering to make for mankind – to inform it that all existence is divine. This is grander than the Islamic vision of saying that all mankind are slaves of Allah.

tell us the creation of this universe base on the scriptures,

Hinduism believes that the Creator and Creation are not separate entities but the same entity in various forms.

what is the purpose of a human being in this world,

To awaken to his divine glory.

what will happen in the future.

The dance of existence will continue.

you dont have answers to these questions.

Hinduism has always had the answers and was the first to have the answers. Has Islam got any answers except to seek to subdue mankind into being slaves of Allah?

4) you said that Allah is not a fact, neither you can prove him nor disprove him. This is a fact that there as to be a one true God almighty this universe is far too complicated and perfect,

The universe is complicated yet perfect. Since it is perfect, it has to contain its source within itself. A source outside itself would make the universe incomplete and therefore imperfect.

it cannot come to exsistence by itself.

The universe has always existed in one form or the other or formlessly. God is both its form and formlessness.

if Mathematics cant be judge in religion you gave a comparison of language, it can be said the same.

I said saying one religion alone is true is like saying one language alone is true. This is better than Dr. Zakir Naik saying 1 + 1 = 2 therefore Islam is true.

For Dr Zakir Naik he is a logical person, he had proven alot of things. The authencity of the Quran and other scriptures,

I think Dr. Zakir Naik has convinced many Muslims that they can win the war for Islam by taking to Dawah. This is a welcome approach away from terrorism that many believed would win the war for Islam

I suggest you watch the debate between Dr Zakir Naik & Sr Sri Ravi Shankar on Islam and Hinduism.

I watched the video – both of them expressed religion in their own ways. What is there for a Hindu seer to debate with a Muslim scholar? Dr. Zakir Naik may have needed to prove that Islam is the one and only true religion. Sri Sri Ravi Shankar obviously does not have any such need.

5) Tell me about universal brotherhood, how many Africans are hindus, but in islam we have indians, arabs, whites & blacks, Americans & British, Chinese & SE Asians our religion spreads through the whole world.

Hindu gurus have disciples all over the world. Once Islamic societies open up to freedom of religion, many Muslims would come under their influence. Many Muslims are already practicing yoga, which is a Hindu teaching applicable for all.

Tell me about Hinduism you have a nationality within a religion if a white guy converts to hinduism according to your scholars the brahmins they are still recgoinized as achoots (untouchables).

Hinduism is on the rise once more to the ideal of Vasudeva Kutumbakam – the whole world is a family (not just the world of believers).

The thing is you have only seen Muslims who live in India, you have not seen the real islamic brotherhood so it is an ideal for you, i hope one day you will see it.

Why was your real Islamic brotherhood unable to continue the brotherhood in Pakistan and force Bangladesh to have its own brotherhood?

6)You said that Hinduism are fighting for tendancies but what i hear on the news is that Hindu brides are burned alive for thier incapability to pay dowries to thier husbands family.

What have you to say about the famous ‘honour killing’ of women among the Muslims?

We muslims give dowry to our wives not take from them.

Whether husband’s family gives dowry to the wife’s family or vice versa, it proves that Islam also has not been able to overcome dowry tendencies. Let us hope the reformers of all communities get rid of dowry totally. (The ideal would be not to treat something as sacred as marriage as mere commodity trading.)

We can just talk about sppression of women in hinduism. you can watch the film Water where poor Hindu Widows are forced to shave off thier heads and not to remarry and some turn into temple prostitutes and some little girls are married and their husband are so old that they die and they are widowed at the age of 8 years old. can you beleive this.

What have you to say about the Islamic sanction of 4 marriages at a time, triple talaq (even over the telephone) and all that? There could be more destitutes amongst Muslim women due to marriage disruptions than among the Hindus.

I Know that you are traveling in what boat the difference is in which class are you on the boat, 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th, or the rest.

Today all classes are decided by the thickness of the wallet.

I have given you an example when we pray we have to pray from sholder to sholder with our brother,

And you consider those who do not pray in your style as not your brothers. Hinduism considers the entire world a family, regardless of how you pray.

but as you said some temples are only for higher class can you beleive this again, my God, a temple only for the higher class suppose if you are unluckily brought up in a low class family, it is not your fault but You cannot enter the temple of God. i think you should really think about your religion carefully. .

Hinduism gives every one the right to his or her sacred space. It allows everyone to build their own temples. Islam does not allow Hindus entry into Mecca (into not just the mosque but even the town). Would Saudi Arabia (the land of perfect Islam?) allow non-Muslims to build their places of worship there?

Now i am getting worried for you.

Thanks for being considerate.