May I ask of our Muslim Friends.

[nawab]

allright since you have claim that Hindu scriptures do not teach about Caste system which i have read it myself but I will conclude this part. I will reluctantly agree with you that Hinduism does not approve caste system.

Now for greetings, that joining hands is a universal greeting i dont agree, even people in Europe, US, Middle East, Hong Kong, China, they all shake hands, shaking hands is universal greeting gesture.

Now regarding, if i explain aspects or teachings of Islam to Christians or Jews, they will understand what i am saying, by you saying Muhammad copied Jesus, i can also say to Chrsitians that Jesus copied everything from Moses. Allah Forbid. no, this is not like that We are a prophectic religion, Hinduism is not a prophetic religion. every prophet Law was similar or had a slight change. Like we are all Cricumcised from Adam to Muhammad all taught to be circumcised, but because of the naught of the Children of Israel, they were supposed to wander in the dessert for 40 years so, the most common animal in the dessert is camel which is haram for them as a punishment but for us muslims as our pioners were from a different tribe/community so we could eat camel. but our diet law Kosher and Halaal is the same. another example is that Moses main doctrine after the oneness of God was an eye for an eye, a tooth or a tooth but the jews took the law to the extreme there was no time for trials, Jesus brought the remedy if anyone slaps you one one cheek offer the other.
then people became too soft. Then both laws are not compatiable with society today. Now the law Muhammad brought in this regards is trials, do not oppress and dont be oppressed, if you want you can put the accussed on trial or forgive him. you yourself tell me among these 3 laws which law is compatiable with today societies.

I myself do not beleive that the state of Israel should have any right of exsistence. I explained to you we are tolerant to you guys but tolerance do not means acceptance. for example will the hindus allow the muslims to slay cows for food, no so how are hindus being tolerant.

I dont know where you have found this that Muhammad took slave girls from Allah, provide me the reference number and i will find out.

Alcohol might be still available in Muslim countries thats why we need places like Mecca and Medina since the advent of Islam Alcohol has never be found in Mecca and Medina. that why we need a place away from the rest sinful world.

The scholars they use the quran to sanction Haddiths, there cannot be Quran only we also need the Haddiths, as a commentry. During the life time of the prophet there was no problem of Haddiths but after his demise, there was this problems when some hipocrytes started to add in thier own stuff.

The miracle about salaat is that Every rigtheous Muslim at the same time 5 times a day whereever he is, stands together shoulder to shoulder, In sajdah put his head down on the floor and proclaims Allahu Akbar, Allah is Great in the same direction every circle as a centre point. all around the world facing in the same direction. I will inform you that Allah does not needs our prayer, this is only our test. What will Allah do with our prayers, He is testing us, are we submitting to him.praying in one direction is for the unity. maybe your gods need your prayers to require sustenance, Allah doesnt, he feds us but is not required to be fed. Allah is not where we pray. and Allah is not everywhere as well. Some Muslims do say that Allah is everywhere, his knowledge is everywhere he himself is not everywhere.

Allah has many attrributes which 99 are mentioned in the Haddiths they are not names e.g. the Merciful, Creator, sustener,. Even in Hinduism it says sages call him by different names but he is only one. there is a beautiful attribute in Hinudism for God almighty. Brahma.

Brahma = Al Khaliq = the Creator
Vishnu = As Samad = the sustainer

but we will disagree with you when you say the god has four faces or god is sitting on a snake or a tiger. regarding terminalogy no problem. but when you make a pratima of God then i cant accept that.

Your are very right, Islam does lay down rules & conditions for its followers, every civilised nation on earth has a consititution, the rules & regulations, if Hinduism doesnt has then it is not compatiable with todays age. you are keep on saying the world is your family then when the muslism want to eat beef why do you not let your brothers eat Beef.

For shias and sunnis beleieve the Muslims who pride themselves under these labels are very few.
but you are right just being a muslin you dont get a straight ticket to heaven but you have to earn it. after beliving in the knowledge of the unseen. the sects it was also foretold Islam is not failed but those muslims have. your right we also want to have our caliphate with our shariat as consititution, eventually it is going to happen as a promise for 40 years before the day of resurrection.

Obviously it is God who created life, whats the big deal 3 religious scriptures confirms that dont be sad, just because Hinduism didnt mentioned it, since you dont mind co-exsisting you can always beleive in a slight part of the Torah/bible regarding the creation of man.

I think you forgot my family were not brahmins, we were kshatriyas. a warrior will never back down from his responsibility as krishna said in mahabharat.

you talk about divinity of man what divinity do we have, we eat, we go to toilets, we have sex, we vomits, we get tired, the laws of earth are compulsary on us, when we touch fire we get burnt, we get sick, we die, we lust, will be raised, what divinity do you have. What is man in front of his sight

I said we desire to become his slaves, its different. well, so when are you going to awake your divinity, please inform me i like to see. The day you become divine i will be the first one to follow you but proof to me that you are divine. since you claim that you can awaken the divinity. i will love to see.

Prophet Muhammd did not mediated (this word is only used because the english language is so inferior they cannot produce a word for that type of nature) in arabic the word is Dhikr (Zhikr in urdu) He went there to rest far away from the idol worshippers, to be alone and to proclaim Allahs name. If mediation was the way, he should have done after the 1st revealation which he didnt. so you are fighting a womans battle picking words to suit yourself.

Regarding the verse in Surah Tauba(chapter 9) please read the whole thing in context alot of muslims have clarified on this point, i am tired of doing this over and over, regard from verse 1 and go the verse mentioned. you are still finding verses to suit your self.

Inshallah, if any muslim who is ignorant of the quran, i will tell him.

 

[Popeyesays]

Shaking hands is NOT a Chinese tradition, it is an attempt on their part to treat their western guests as they expect to be treated.

The CHinese traditional greeting is to "shake hands with one's swelf". One clasps one's own hands in front of one's upper adbdomen and bows towards whomever one might be greeting.

Hong Kong is not pure Chinese tradition you know. There was no Hong Kong as a city until the British and foreign traders built it.

Regards,
Scott

 

[nawab]

Jesus also said in Job 25:3-6

3 Is there any number to His armies?
Upon whom does His light not rise?
4 How then can man be righteous before God?
Or how can he be pure who is born of a woman?
5 If even the moon does not shine,
And the stars are not pure in His sight,
6 How much less man, who is a maggot,
And a son of man, who is a worm?”

I have learned from you patience, the messanger is always there but the prime message of the Quran is to worship and ultimate submission to Allah.

Just tell me one thing when Shiva didnt recoignized his own son Ganesh, when i am in trouble i seek his help how will he recoignize me. So Shiva choped Ganesh head off and I cant imagine that God doesnt have enough power to resurect the dead, he has to find an elephants head to improvise. doesnt the story sound humanly to you. One Hindu friend brought a Parsad and said eat it, i said i can only eat the parsad if God almightys name is procalimed on the food as instructed in the Quran. He started telling me the story. I told him this is the God you beleive in and he said forget it it is just a story, i said, I insist i want to eat the parsad prove to me that Ganesh is God so i can eat it. By Allah i was not making a mockery of any one i was being logical

There are alot of facts, like the moon has reflected light, the Pharoh Ramesis II s body will be preserved till last hour. the fact about sperm that among sperms only one sperm is required, the embryo looking like a lychee, the sun rotates above its axises, the fact that all life is created with Water, every living thing consists of water, these are only few which i know from my limited knowledgeare these mentioned in the Vedas. Dr Keith Moore has wrote a book on the Human Embryology based on the Quranic description. the Earth is a book which is wriiten based on Geology in Islam. the authors are non-muslims.

Limitations yes of course everything precious has a limited edition, we are limited editions. Allah doesnt creates the problem, due to the Human struction and the proffesions of man and woman, more men die than women so it is also because of our own doing that surplus of women are there.
in the Quran it is mentioned that we have created Jinns and humans only to worship. this word worship basically means anything you do because you are submitting your will to Allah, e.g. like i am working (this is also worship) because the prophet said earn honesty for a living, being honest is also worship, eating in the way the prophet told us is also worship. so in short whatever the prophet told us to do and if we do than we arte worshipping and if the prophet forbid something and we dont do it we are also worshipping.Worship is not only 5 times a day for us every breath we take we beleive that it is because of the almighty grace this is also worship. When we go to the toilet to urniate, in the way the prophet reccommended that is also worship. How can we compare ourselves with Allah i have already explained upstairs an engineer of a TV and a TV which is created by him is not compareable. He created one TV he can create another TV, How can man be equal with God.

You are right if you are having sex with your legal wife with rules of the islamic sex then you are doing worship there is no doubt. i said to you everything we do requires us to worship even as every breath we take. Allah has only created Jinns and Humans for worship. we dont worship our wife or the wife worship us. we are worshipping Allah by obeying his commands of ultimate submission.

Regarding the Big Bang, we beleived it but obviously there was no Media at that time. This is Allah s way how want to create the mountains as pegs or not. any geologist would be able to confirm this. that if they were no mountains, the earth would have rotated with us. in Science it is the bones that are created first. I think you should research on it. no matter is the Greeks or not, our Prophet could only speak broken arabic how could he have got from foriegn sources doesnt make sense.

Thats why in India you guys have so many abortion clinics, give 5000 ruppes save 500000 ruppes.
because marriage is a sacred event, thats why you have a over population of males there is so many infanticide. We are true to our facts we also have to safeguard evryone, if the males divorces her at least she has something with her for sustaining purposes we are practicle we beleive in prevention is better than cure. There was abritish reporter she went to india and reported so many female emrbtos being aborted after being identified as females. It depends on the girl whoose gift she might accept it doesnt have to put a price maybe A gives her gold B gives her silver she might accept B, up to her choice.

See Sri Sri Ravi Shankar said Islam took its initaial form from Hinduism he said that the words like Ramzan came from Ram or something like that. this is wrong.

Tell me dude when Krishna can have 16,000 wives, why can muslims just have 4, i means i dont see what the problem is, Prophet Solomon had around 1000 wives, Abrahim had 2 wives, Jacob had 2 wives according to the bible. you ar eproudly saying Krishna having 16,000 wives but not letting muslims have 4 .

No one is destined to eternal paradise or hell, you will enter according to your own deeds and sins now lets see where the Quran contradicts itself, well if you dont want to live in Islamic countries than dont, but when your in our lands it our rules, when your land we dont eat beef so its just the same

regarding JIhad there are two types of Jihad one is the Jihad-e-kufr and Jihad-e-nafs, Jihad-e-nafs is the difficult one because till you live you will have to fight the anti social elements and negativity with yourself, Jihad-kufr is that Jihad you have to fight against oppression of the Muslim comunity this is easy either Muslim dies or Kafir dies but the jihad is over for the individual. rememeber Jihad-e-kufr can only waged in violation of treaties and oppression

Islam had completely superceeded Persian Arya Dharma Zoroasterism, they are less than 5% in the world, Maybe India is destined to stay a bit longer. However this is my promised to you that we shall both see India becoming a muslim nation during our life time or not.

We are told that no matter how graet or righteous we are we wont be better than the prophet, However, we still have to try to be the best just like prepare the exam for 100% than you will get 80% if you prepare for 52% you will get 30% than you fail. i hope this part is clear i know in english it sounds funny.

Obviously we also need history, to learn from the past.

 

[Popeyesays]

Jesus does not speak at all in the Book of Job.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

There are few Parsees in Persia because there has been 1500 years of oppression of the followers of Zarathustra. Many of those Zoroastrians fled to India.

The second most prevalent religion in Iran today is Baha`i though it is getting more and more illegal to be a Baha`i in Persia due to the jackboot politics of the Islamic Republic in Iran.

Regards,

Scott

 

[K.Venugopal]

First of all, what i mentioned is a fact, and no, haha, don't worry, i'm not being idolatrous.

For instance, if any material in this earthly life changed from a condition to another, or from a color to another, it would be normal. The same thing can be said with this stone, but i already mentioned that this stone came from heaven, and it's not an earthly stone. Just so you understand where i'm coming from. You really need to know more information about the muslims preciption of the afterlife. In our dogma, it's well known for example that, we, human beings, in the hereafter will be judged using a unique scale. Imagine yourself trying to know your weight and you found that it's zero?!

Even if you brought a very fat person, another thin person's weight might be more than him. Why is that? because the scale at that time is based on how pious and how good you were, but not the normal weight as what you had in this life.

Just another simple fact, imagine yourself in the space, you will experine a totally different situation, as any other item coming from the space would behave on the ame way, it will behave in a totally different way. Here, this is only about an item coming from the nearest space, imagine if it came from a place where it's a thousands and thousands of years far from us, what would be the behavior and attributes of that item would be? would it be the same as earth's? would it keep the same qualities? of course not!

I'll assume that you still didn't grasp this de facto in muslims dogma, but if you had a little thought of the bigger picture, you will know that Muslims believe in heaven and hell, and if you think there is no heaven or hell, so the idea of a stone coming from heaven will be absolutely ridicolous to you. That's why you thought this stone has emotions!

It doesn't has emotions because it's not alive as what you thought, but the nature of this stone get affected with the spirituallity of the people on earth, as any stone on earth would be affected by, let's say, weather.

You are saying that this unique stone has the capacity to absorb our sins and in doing so it, which was white before, became black. The idea of a stone being able to absorb sins is somewhat far fetched, never mind where the stone came from. Of course, we all have the right to hold such beliefs, like the idol worshippers do. So what you mentioned is not a fact but a belief. In the world of belief, the ludicrous can often be the norm.

Regarding your source, i was trying find where does it mention what you have said earlier:

(There is no doubt that Mohammad, knowledgeable of the history of the Black Stone, was so overwhelmed by the sight of this unique stone he himself had installed in the Black Cube, that in one moment of ecstasy, he kissed it and that moment witnessed history’s greatest idol-breaker enact an idolatrous passion play.)

But i didn't find it there!

These were your own words or you found them somewhere else?

This? Why, this was not quoted from any source. It was my own obvious words in describing Mohammad’s kissing of the stone. Only passion aroused by the uniqueness of what was before him could have caused him to kiss a stone. To the best of my knowledge, Hindu idol worshippers do not kiss idols.

Anyway, read this from your own source:

I wonder what you mean when you say “from your own source”.

 

[K.Venugopal]

There are few Parsees in Persia because there has been 1500 years of oppression of the followers of Zarathustra. Many of those Zoroastrians fled to India. The second most prevalent religion in Iran today is Baha`i though it is getting more and more

illegal to be a Baha`i in Persia due to the jackboot politics of the Islamic Republic in Iran.

You are being politically correct in saying, “jackboot politics of the Islamic Republic in Iran” when it would be more correct to say, “in keeping with Islam’s legacy”. First the Parsees, then the Baha’is. Intolerance, thy name is Islam.

 

[Popeyesays]

You are being politically correct in saying, “jackboot politics of the Islamic Republic in Iran” when it would be more correct to say, “in keeping with Islam’s legacy”. First the Parsees, then the Baha’is. Intolerance, thy name is Islam.

Islam was very tolerant, until it chased itself into ignorance and dogma starting around 1600 AD. Every religion does that--pass through springtime, summer, fall--and the senility of winter. Even Hinduism. Even Baha`i when the day comes

That is why new Messengers appear where they are most needed. Persia was the poster child of intolerance, ignorance, empty ritual, parasitic clergy, et al. Muhammed did not bring that into being, men did.

Regards,
Scott

 

[nawab]

Dear Scott

I will not say that you are an iliterate person, you are a knowledgeable person, but have you been to HK , I was born in HK , i am lived continuesly for 21 years and i am still living and working there, and i dont have intentions to reside anyway besides HK

I know HK and China is different thats why i mention them differently, But i am talking about the age today since everyone is trying to be westernize they still shake hand more than joinging palms, among these two which is a universal greeting, i have also worked in an International Airport in HK and Katar,

the real Chinese ancient Pagen greeting is holding fists which is already being replaced with handshakes in HK and China, please come to HK and China and expirence it yourself then you will know better than reading from the internet.

the History is not important, today their actions are important.

I hope you were not offended by my comments

Shaking hands is NOT a Chinese tradition, it is an attempt on their part to treat their western guests as they expect to be treated.

The CHinese traditional greeting is to "shake hands with one's swelf". One clasps one's own hands in front of one's upper adbdomen and bows towards whomever one might be greeting.

Hong Kong is not pure Chinese tradition you know. There was no Hong Kong as a city until the British and foreign traders built it.

Regards,
Scott

 

[K.Venugopal]

Islam was very tolerant, until it chased itself into ignorance and dogma starting around 1600 AD. Every religion does that--pass through springtime, summer, fall--and the senility of winter. Even Hinduism. Even Baha`i when the day comes

That is why new Messengers appear where they are most needed. Persia was the poster child of intolerance, ignorance, empty ritual, parasitic clergy, et al. Muhammed did not bring that into being, men did.

I hope Islam, which would not recognize any new messengers, would at least have for itself a new leadership that ceases challenging other religions by calling them false and instead recognizes that it takes all sorts to make the world.

 

[Popeyesays]

I hope Islam, which would not recognize any new messengers, would at least have for itself a new leadership that ceases challenging other religions by calling them false and instead recognizes that it takes all sorts to make the world.

Such Muslims are in the world today, my friend. But it is easier to pound the drum of dogma to instigate war than it is to play the sweet melodies which generate peace.

We must be patient in God, and realize that it is the journey, not the destination that brings usw to God.

Regards,
Scott

 

[TashaN]

You are saying that this unique stone has the capacity to absorb our sins and in doing so it, which was white before, became black. The idea of a stone being able to absorb sins is somewhat far fetched, never mind where the stone came from. Of course, we all have the right to hold such beliefs, like the idol worshippers do. So what you mentioned is not a fact but a belief. In the world of belief, the ludicrous can often be the norm.

Describe it the way you want. This is what i know about the black stone.

This? Why, this was not quoted from any source. It was my own obvious words in describing Mohammad’s kissing of the stone. Only passion aroused by the uniqueness of what was before him could have caused him to kiss a stone. To the best of my knowledge, Hindu idol worshippers do not kiss idols.

We don't worship idols.

I wonder what you mean when you say “from your own source”.

What i meant is that, i quoted that part from the link you gave me, about the stone proven to not be from this planet.

 

[nawab]

Dear Scott

A sting of a woman is 10,000 times more venomous than of a scorpian, i am sure you understand what i mean.

Asad

 

[TashaN]

You are being politically correct in saying, “jackboot politics of the Islamic Republic in Iran” when it would be more correct to say, “in keeping with Islam’s legacy”. First the Parsees, then the Baha’is. Intolerance, thy name is Islam.

You are not the first person who say that, but yet, it always turn to be just another misconception about Islam. If you are looking for mistakes in any religion, so you will find it no matter how perfect it was, because you need to see it imperfect.

Islam always has been a tolerant religion and will be. What some muslims do today no more represent Islam than the Crusade representing Christians today.

If you want to know Islam, go to the dogma itself, but not what the media shows about people who don't even represent 5% of the muslims.

Islam was very tolerant, until it chased itself into ignorance and dogma starting around 1600 AD. Every religion does that--pass through springtime, summer, fall--and the senility of winter. Even Hinduism. Even Baha`i when the day comes

That is why new Messengers appear where they are most needed. Persia was the poster child of intolerance, ignorance, empty ritual, parasitic clergy, et al. Muhammed did not bring that into being, men did.

Regards,
Scott

Islam is not intolerant, Scott, and you know that well. Praising the baha'i faith in the expense of islam is a habit of yours, but this is the first time i see you going so far with it. What Iran is doing to your fellow baha'is have nothing to do with Islam and you know that well.

When you talk about intolerane, please stick to Persia (Iran) and don't generalize until you reach Islam, as a religion.

 

[DarkSun]

What about the black stone, the black stone is not an idol it does not have a face like yours or like your picture.

Black stone is just like any gem which is decorated on the Kaaba and Historians tell us even before Islam the Black stone was never worshipped even by the pagens/idol worshippers

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the clich'e English depiction of Jesus just merely a depiction of God when he was made flesh?

According to Christian doctrine, anyway.

Besides that, I can honestly say that I have no idea what God looks like; nor have I ever seen an image of Him.

Why don't Muslims allow depictions of Muhammad? Didn't he have a human form?

 

[DarkSun]

I'm sure that Scott was just talking about the minorities in Iran.

 

[Popeyesays]

"Islam is not intolerant, Scott, and you know that well. Praising the baha'i faith in the expense of islam is a habit of yours, but this is the first time i see you going so far with it. What Iran is doing to your fellow baha'is have nothing to do with Islam and you know that well.

When you talk about intolerane, please stick to Persia (Iran) and don't generalize until you reach Islam, as a religion."

The Islamic Revolutionary Government has as one of its branches the Imams of Iran. They can veto and initiate government actions.

Wikipedia (Islamic government): Iran's Islamic republic is in contrast to the semi-secular state of the Republic of Pakistan (proclaimed as an Islamic Republic in 1956) where Islamic laws are technically considered to override laws of the state, though in reality their relative hierarchy is ambiguous."

Islam was very tolerant historically speaking, one cannot call it tolerant as it manifests itself in government bodies. It is or is not tolerant depending upon the particular government in question.

Qur'anically speaking Islam is extremely tolerant, "Let there be no compulsion in religion" is a paradigm of tolerance.

It's the practice by individuals using religion to practice social control that is in question not the words of God expressed through the Prophet Muhammed.

I hope that clarifies.

Regards,
Scott

Pakistan was a haven for Baha`i's fleeing Iran and still is for those who can still get out.

The government of Iran has been extremely intolerant of the Baha`i Faith.

 

[gotsoul]

It is not surprising that many sects today claims to be Islam.In the Quran, Allah says

"And hold fast all of you together to the rope of Allah,and be not disunited" Quran 3:103


By the 'rope of Allah' is meant that agreement and covenant which was drawn up between us and the Almighty Allah - the covenant of the Quran. This opinion is based on a hadith in which the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "The Book of Allah: It is the Rope of Allah that has been extended down from the heavens to the earth." (Ibn Jarir, Qurtubi)

Imam Razi comments: "Since the path that believers are required to take is a very narrow one, the likelihood of a person slipping off always remains high, except in case of him who holds a rope that runs across." The command to hold fast to the Quran implies that we have been directed to follow the code prescribed through the Quran for our individual as well as collective life. In every difficult situation involving our convictions and ideaology the Quran should be our guiding star for steering us to safety.

By 'be not disunited' it is implied that we must not lose our grip on the Rope of Allah and fall into the snare of prejudice by splitting into groups led by different Imams and leaders, whereby truth and guidance, instead of being radiated directly by the Quran might appear to become the private property of certain individuals and personalities.

Mufti Shafi remarks: "When we speak of unity of ranks, we know that it cannot be attained without the unity of ideas, faiths and objectives. That will come from the Quran and the Sunnah. It is only when we hold fast unto them, accepting them as the sole criteria, guide and judge, that the much sought after unity of ranks, will be achieved. Every other method will fail miserably." [Compiled from 'Juristic Differences' by Amin Ahsan Islahi, pp 14-15 and 'Tafsir Ishraq al-Maani' by Syed Iqbal Zaheer, Vol 2, pp. 89-90]

In short, anyone who are against the Quran or the Sunah, got nothing to do with Islam

 

[K.Venugopal]

What Iran is doing to your fellow baha'is have nothing to do with Islam and you know that well.

This is the typical Muslim defense of Islam. No Muslims’ action has anything to do with Islam. Ayatollah Khomeini has nothing to do with Islam. The Taliban has nothing to do with Islam. Osama bin Laden has nothing to do with Islam. The Saudi Government has nothing to do with Islam. Only what is in the Quran has anything to do with Islam. Why, some Muslims, theorizing a Classical Islam, hold that even Mohammad has nothing to do with Islam – that is, his haddiths and sunnahs are not valid - the only haddith that is valid is the haddith of Allah, which is the Quran. I suppose we can afford to write-off everyone’s negative acts as an inbuilt depravity of man. But what do we say of an Allah who takes on the role of a military strategist and commands his army to lie in wait after the holy month for the infidels and ambush them? "Quran 9:5 - Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolators wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and prepare for them each ambush, but if they repent, and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." It is clear that it is none other than Allah himself who inspires the bigots of Iran who bay for the Baha’i blood.

 

[K.Venugopal]

But i am talking about the age today since everyone is trying to be westernize they still shake hand more than joinging palms, among these two which is a universal greeting

This is similar to the logic of Dr. Zakir Naik (the greatest Muslim and comparative religious scholar of our times with amazing prodigious memory) who says 1 + 1 = 2 therefore Islam alone is true. More people are shaking hands than joining palms and therefore Islam is the greatest.