May I ask of our Muslim Friends.

[K.Venugopal]

7) I am ashamed of any customs or traditions which are in Islam because of cultural influences, there is nothing addition into Islam, it was already finalized and nothing should be put into.

When was Islam finalized? When Mohammed finished receiving the message from Gabriel after 23 years and it was compiled into the Quran or when the Hadiths and Sunnah of Mohammad were incorporated into Islam? Is following Hadiths and Sunnah sanctioned by Quran? Please clarify.

Why i meant Arabn society is because their laws are islamic laws the society is purely Islamic.

Many Arabian countries today are run by royal families and most of them are client states of USA. Are these examples of pure Islamic societies?

Not like ours in Pakistan where people still find Music is not a problem, Castes, wedding ceremonies. these are not in islam,

Has Islam forbidden music? Please quote the Quran to prove this

i am not ashamed but i fear, these things, these things make you commit sins.

Why are Muslims following things that are not in Islam?

In islam every Muslim is our brother, no matter is from Anyplace in the world.

Why don’t at least contiguous Muslim countries form a single nation, particularly those with the same language? Look at how many religions and languages Hinduism has and still India is one nation. Only Islam, because it is unable to accept other religions, formed a separate nation called Pakistan, which did not last long.

My biological forefathers were in fact Hindu Indians but my spiritual family is all the muslims around the world, i cant because of my own selfishness betray the whole ideal Universal brotherhood. Even if my real biological father is turning against the truth, I will also have to Fight him.

Of course you would fight your own father in the name of religion just as Abraham broke the idols his own father worshipped. And please do not say universal brotherhood, please say universal Islamic brotherhood. Islam is incapable of including everyone.

This is righteousness not saying you are also right and i am also right, this is nonsense.

Righteousness for you is saying Islam is the only truth. Righteousness for me is to accept that though Truth may be one, there are many ways of expressing it.

8) regarding Sufism, it is a self doctrine of purification of the heart.

Isn’t purification of the heart a good thing?

No matter if you are a Sufi or a mullah if you are blaspheming then you should be punished.

That is, no one is allowed to question the official version of Islam. And who decides what is the official version? The ruling government of the day in the name of Shariat, of course.

Sufis is a restricted version for muslims mainly only in India & Pakistan which is not a universal doctrine.

You will be surprised to know that Sufism is respected the world over.

These Sufis there acesters found a different approach to convert the non-muslims with a different methodology like monasticism, which is forbid in Islam.

Sufis may have converted Hindus but Sufism itself was influenced by Hinduism.

I like to promote Islam with Dawah not a different approach.

Promoting Islam is fine but saying that only Islam is true will be questioned more and more in future, which will finally lead to the exercise of Dawah transforming Islam itself.

by first asking them to come together and telling you are also right and i am aslo right so that the person converts because of the Sufi and not really understanding the signs of Islam.

The important thing is not just to understand Islam but also to understand the Truth, of which Islam is only a part.

By the way visiting Sufi shrines are not a part of Islamic practices. On the contrary it is agaisnt Islam.

Why is Pakistan not declaring those who go to Sufi shrines as non-Muslims? In fact, all Pakistani dignitaries, including its Presidents, visit Sufi shrines when they come to India.

9) History is still being wriiten, you cannot say for sure who will become islamic or who wont. India will definately become an Islamic country, this is my gurantee to you in our life time or not.

Islam already had a chance of making India an Islamic country under the great Mughal empire, at a time when Hindus were in a weak state. If Islam was unable to do it even then, what makes you confident that it will be able to do so in the future?

For your information the Kashmiris they are proud to be Kashmiris not Indians or Pakistanis you cant blame anyone for that, they want to be indepandent, they will have to fight the indians for that

Only the Muslims of Kashmir want independence, not the Hindus. This is yet another proof that Muslims are unable to live peacefully with non-Muslims.

now regarding Pakistan, that was simple war before the Pakistanis took the Azad Kashmir if you think thats not nice, send your armies and recover it.

India just might.

Dont forget that Islamic Rule was still in India, Till Mugal Baadshah Bahadur Shah Zafar, The muslims who fought in India were not remembered as patriots,

Which Muslims do you have in mind? How can Muslims, if they fought alongside foreign conquerors against Indians, be remembered as patriots?

so. yet Hindus have proven jis ki late uske bahense. Remember all you did was only riots killing poor people,

The most number of people were killed during the partition of India and this happened because Muslims wanted a nation all by themselves, as they could not live with the Hindus.

did any hindu army fought a battle which the muslims lost. I hardly doubt it.

Finally the Hindus won and Muslims no longer rule India, except by democratic consensus.

10) Hinduism being the oldest, these are just exaggerations by your scholars,

No exaggeration dear, it is a fact.

your scholars dont even know when the Vedas were reavealed and to whom they were.

The Vedas contain spiritual truths that have always existed and these truths are directly seen by whoever meditates at the highest level. (Like Mohammad meditated in the Hira caves). The earliest meditators passed down from generation to generation the great spiritual Truths they saw and it was compiled by Vyasa, a great sage. What Vyasa compiled is what is generally known as the Vedas. But discovery of Truth and its expression and compilation have not ceased and shall not cease as long as mankind survives. The concept of Truth popping up in the middle ages through Mohammad and its expression ending upon his death is not the whole truth!

They also agree that it is not in pure form.

All forms are pure if they contain the Truth.

In Islam we beleive that the first man on earth Adam was a muslim. which is confirmed by Christian and Jewish scriptures that Adam is the first man, eveen today there are researches confirming this. Adam brought the message of Islam,

How could Adam have been a Muslim when Islam was founded by Mohammad? (Islam, according to the present reality, is not only the teachings of the Quran, but also of Mohammad through the Hadiths and Sunnah. Can you be a Muslim if you don’t follow what Mohammad taught? Salaat, for example? Or are you saying being a Muslim meant a different thing to Adam? If you can be a Muslim by being different, then why not call the Hindus also Muslims?

 

[K.Venugopal]

all prophets brought the message of Islam.

And where are those messages today to prove that it was indeed Islam? If they are lost, does it not mean that Islam is unable to last long and has to be renewed regularly? In that case, what is the guarantee that the current Islam will also not be renewed in the future?

Prophet Muhammd was the final Prophet of Islam.

Prophet Mohammad is the only prophet of Islam, the first and the last. If you call prophets before Mohammad as Muslims, prove from sources before the Quran that this is so, that the Prophets have said that they are Muslims.

Just tell me how old the vedas are to whom it were reaveled, what does it explains about th creation of man and universe, what does it talks about weather, geology, astronomy, embrology.

The Vedas are older than the Quran, to be sure. The Vedas say all existence is one, expressing itself as many. The Vedas are a storehouse of much knowledge, not borrowed ones like in the Quran. Can you give me an original knowledge traceable to the Quran?

Because God knew that the muslims would makes these discoveries pass teh m over to the british and bring them to you.

Can you give me any discovery the Muslims made based on the Quran which was not already known to mankind?

Truley Hindusism doesnt force anyone to accept any scripture to follow thats why at the end you end up following none.

Hindus have a choice of religions and there are many Hindu religions today that have many followers. Remember Hinduism does not mean a single religion. It is a spiritual culture that encourages the discovery of God and its expression in many ways.

11) well i suppose that is the only difference between windows and religion.

This is an important difference.

Look I challenge you to find a verse from the quran where it say that Force people to convert

"Quran 9:29 - Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

we are informed in the quran that Let there be no compulsion in religion.

The implication of the verse “2:256 - There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way” is, leave those who do not follow the right way (Islam) to their dire fate. This verse only proves that Allah is intolerant of other faiths.

Just find one verse from the quran which allows us to slaughter non-muslim, this would make our job alot easier.

“Sura (9:5) "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..."

Michael H Hart (a non-muslim) wrote a book 100 most influential people in history, no.1 was prophet Muhammad PBUH, No.3 was Jesus PBUH, where was Ram and where was krishna. Why did he mentioned the prophet Muhammd to be no.1.

I have no quarrel with Mohammad being the most influential man in history. But I am not very sure about the quality of that influence.

He married Aisha, he didnt rape her for your information plus she was sent to his house at the age of 12 when the age of puberty, but they did not have any sexual relations as she did not have a son. Whats the big deal of a 55 year old man marriying a 9 year old without sexual relations

Are you saying Aisha was a virgin at 18 when Mohammad died? And she remained a virgin the rest of her life because she did not marry again? So Mohammad did not force her into sex but forced her into virginity.

and how about those Hindu priest who have sex with child Temple prostitutes. you are the one who is narrow minded,

That is a malpractice and Hindus have recognized it so (malpractices creep in over a period of time in any social order) but it is not sanctioned by Hinduism and that practice is not there today. But Muslims are justifying Mohammad’s marrying a 9 year old girl at 54 and appear to be even proud of it. Very broad minded, indeed.

Our religion is not customer service where the followers are the customers, they are always right. Our prophet wanted people to beleive in his inspiration which was reaveled from God and wanted us to be like him, which unfortunately many of us have failed.

. Islam is restricted to believe. Its aim is to turn mankind into slaves of Allah. Hinduism focuses on experience and its aim is to afford mankind the discovery of its divinity.

11) how about Hinduism, Hinduism is still in like the stone age or something, There is a temple of Lord Ganesh, where there are tens of thousand of rats in the temple and people are eating from the same plate with them, there is no hygene rules even in Hinduism, it is your religion which are only for the local hindus not to expanded to other parts.

Since Hinduism is the teaching and practice of divinity, a temple dedicated to rats is only to give the worshipper the insight that divinity is extant in all, even in rats.

You know when the tourist go to India they are so afraid of the water over there,

This is also true of the tourist when he visits Pakistan.

Any educated Hindu will become a athiest because he feels that religion is not compatible with science. Of course what scientific facts are mentioned in Hinduism.

Hinduism is the expression of those who have discovered the divine and the discovery that all existence is divine is the greatest science. Educated atheists are comfortable with Hinduism because Hinduism is not just a matter of believe, it is an expression of experience.

Dear Scienitist, Can see a word, if your answer is no, then it is not an idol, if your answer is yes i suggest you seek psycatric counsuling before it is too late,

Words, when uttered or thought, create vibrations. Only that which is material can create any sort of movement. All things material can be idols, if worshipped. Since you worship Allah, a sound phenomenon, you are indeed worshipping an idol. And Islam cannot overcome this idol worship because it believes that the worshipper and the worshipped are separate. The worshipper can transcend idol worship only when he attains silence and this can come about only when there is no difference between the worshipper and the worshipped.

 

[Popeyesays]

K.,

al-Islam means "The Submission" as in submitting to the will of God. "Muslim" means "One Who Submits".

Therefore Abraham revealed Submission to the Will of God, as did Moses, as did Jesus, as did Zoroaster, as did Krshna, Muhammed, The Bab, Baha`u'llah were and are all Muslims in the sense that They all submit to the Will of God.

Regards,
Scott

 

[YmirGF]

K.,

al-Islam means "The Submission" as in submitting to the will of God. "Muslim" means "One Who Submits".

Therefore Abraham revealed Submission to the Will of God, as did Moses, as did Jesus, as did Zoroaster, as did Krshna, Muhammed, The Bab, Baha`u'llah were and are all Muslims in the sense that They all submit to the Will of God.

Regards,
Scott

I guess that Buddha is the odd man out in this motley crew, eh... or was he a "muslim" too?

 

[K.Venugopal]

al-Islam means "The Submission" as in submitting to the will of God. "Muslim" means "One Who Submits".

Therefore Abraham revealed Submission to the Will of God, as did Moses, as did Jesus, as did Zoroaster, as did Krshna, Muhammed, The Bab, Baha`u'llah were and are all Muslims in the sense that They all submit to the Will of God.

I think the followers of Islam have tailored the religion to mean submission to Allah in a particular way. If only, say, the Imam of the Grand Mosque at Mecca declares all who submit to the will of God any which way are Muslims and opens the doors of the Mosque to Kafirs like me ...

 

[Popeyesays]

I guess that Buddha is the odd man out in this motley crew, eh... or was he a "muslim" too?

I believe He was. Many Buddhists will insist that Buddhism has nothing to do with God, but I disagree.

Regards,

Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

I think the followers of Islam have tailored the religion to mean submission to Allah in a particular way. If only, say, the Imam of the Grand Mosque at Mecca declares all who submit to the will of God any which way are Muslims and opens the doors of the Mosque to Kafirs like me ...

Ali said that. But Ali was of course, not well treated by the less than obedient followers of the Caliphs. But please remember that it is always thowse who presume to speak For the Prophet that will make exclusionary claims. It is never the Prophet Himself. How does one blame Krshna for what those who claim to be followers of Krshna with their lips and shame Krshna with their actions.

Same for Christ, or Moses, or Muhammed.

Regards,
Scott

 

[nawab]

Dear Brother

Exactly they have lived harmoniously there is no doubt, Harmoniously or under suppression. Look i just ask you in simple english, Can a sudra enter a house of a Brahmin. Can other caste members touch untouchables, because you cant touch them you call them Achoots. Thats why your greetings involve no touching to a brother. In Islam we are told and programed to Shake hands and to wish peace on our brothers no matter of what difference. This can also be confirmed by Jewish scriptures and Chrsitian scriptures when Jesus went to the upper room he said in Hebrew Sahlom Alekum in arabic As Salam Alekum in Luke 24:36. The Jews and Muslims are cousins, so we have a similar greetings. However, The Christians claim that the Old Law is not validate today so they are excused. How can Lions and rats be in war with each other, pls explain.

If a fatwa was passed it only proved that we Muslims are tolerant to other faiths, we sacrifice our own appetite for you guys.

Slavery is abolished in Islam, In Arabia before Islam they bad habbit which was indoctrinated in the Arab society was Slavery. Slavery was reduced in stages and now it is completely abolished. just like Alchohol it was reduced in stages now it is completely forbidden. We do things logically step by step with Patience.

Your Right that the Haddiths and Sunnahs are not santioned, so the Prophet informed us that in the end of times, there would be alot of fabricated Haddiths artributted to our prophet. they only way to check if a haddith is authentic or not it should not go against the teachings of the quran. If it contradicts that Haddiths is not authentic, and thier are the Chains of narrations they cannot be broken as well.

The use of the car is that learn how to drive, not dont drive at all. Learn how to drive the car.

Now for Salaat, Muslims follow different Schools of thought at the moment the authentic ones are Hanafi, Shaffi, Malaki, Hanbali, and Jafri by Al Azhar University. The question is not where they place thier hands, the question is that where our prayers are directed at. In Hindus some thye concentrate on Shiva, others Ram, other Laxmi depnding on thier own proffesions and needs. by the way no mosque will say shias are not allowed, or Sunnis are not allowed but the followers they perform according to thier own practices. I have prayed in a Shia Mosque in Iran, from my actions of prayers they knew i wasnt a Shia, they didnt kill me or look down on me. No matter you are a Shia, Sunni, Sufi, as long as you beleive in these 3 principles about the oneness of God, Prophet Muhammad as the Last messanger and the seal or Prophets, you are our brother.Even those uneducated Shias or Sunnis who labeled themselved are also Sinners and they will also be accounted for.In Islam there are no Sunnis, Shias or Sufis. There are only Muslims and Kafirs (belivers and non-beleivers). Shias and Sunnis were intially a political movement to who the heir of the prophet would be. It is not a sector but rather an opinion. Has i have said to you we muslims we beleive that our way is the truth, if not we wont beleive in it. We have no room for Errors. Thats why Debates are encouraged in Islam. Thats why the Pakistani Government do not allow Shia Sunni debates because they dont want us to become, thanks to these stupis polititians, Same situation in India.

Exactly we beleieve that we Muslims are supperior to non-muslims. Any club you join a member and a non-member do not have the same Honor, responsiblity, rights. However we have rights for non-muslims, please tell me what rights do your scriptures offer for Non-hindus, please clarify.

Any faith that does not beleive in Prophet Muhammad as the last messanger is not a muslim, he has to beleive in Prophet Muhammad PBUH as the seal or prophets. The Ahmedis have thier own Last prophet. so they are not Muslims. and as you say are 2nd class citizens.

Show me one verse from the Hindu scriptures were it offers Freedom of Speech.
We follow the Quran, if the Quran says that Shias are Kafirs then we will accept if it didnt mention, then they are not. We dont have to follow Sunni/Shia organisations especially in Pakistan. The best book to learn about Islam is the Quran.

there is no need of reforming Islam, when Islam had already gave permission to the beleiving women to enter the mosque in the Ladies section. whats ther to argue about. if there are muslims who do not follow the Quran , blame those Muslims not Islam. I said before Blame the Driver not the car.

 

[nawab]

I did not put a sword on your throat and ask you to convert to Islam did I, I am infact learning from you.

Our Doctrine, We beleive in One almighty God, it tells us in the Quran dont you see the Universe is peaceful, if there were more gods besides Allah, they would be often in Conflict like Vishnu and brahma always fighting and Shiva had to compromise for them. this books informs scientific facts, tells us hisorical events and future events. The creation of the universe, a universal brotherhood means actually Islamic brotherhood. You were right here. Surplus of women in this age what solution did the Bible or Veda have informed you, In Quran Allah tells us you can marry 4 women. this is a solution. Talks about prophets before. 1/3 of the Quran speaks about Allahs might himself where A person can develop a Man and Allah relation. by subbmission we turn to slaves. we are not forced we desire to become slaves of Allah. our limitations are told , our weakness are explained. it is not just a religion it is a way of life.

In Hindusim, what does it teaches you everything is divine so worship it , you see a monkey worship it, you see a snake worship it , you see a human worship it. My friend i think you are not learned in science, there was a Big Bang, initially the world was a nebula, a bang happened and created gallaxies, the universe. it is foretold the same in 21:33. We have created the exanding universe which is foretold again, we have created Mountains to withstand the earth from moving when you walk on the earth. the whole proccess of Embrology is mentioned in the quran without microscope, you just tell me one scientific fact from Hinduism according to the scriptures.Thanks

Yes but we dont consider everything to be divine right but you hindus do, so why burn wives alive because they dont have money. Honor killings is not allowed in Islam this was also a pratice in the sub continent by non-muslims like Hindus and Sikhs. Which were absorbed later. Muhammad did not killed any woman onthe basis of Honor Killings. I used the word Dowry because you wouldnt understand the word Haq-Maher which is directly translated as Marriage gift not dowry you guys make sacred marriages into business contracts. even if a Muslim is poor he has to give something which satisfies his wife as a gift not to her family. the family does have anything to do in marriage.

For Sri Sri Ravi Shankar obviously there was nothing left to be said by Him, he even wrote lies to promote unity. In islam we say the truth is bitter, we wont care if you like me or not but this is the truth i rather you be upset with me because i am telling the truth but i will not make up lies to promote our fake friendship and brotherhood.

the 4 marriages are neccassary for today because the surplus of women what will you do . plus many guys become homosexuals then what will you do, the best option share husbands. how any wives Krishna had.pls inform.

Maybe for you classes are determined accroding to wallets not for me, Maybe people say that your ancestors have an effect on you. Maybe before my families were HIndus at that time they were proud of their family now i am also proud of my family. the difference is my Biological family and Spiritual family.

Sorry, but anything with error we have no room for it, so we will not allow that doesnt mean that you cannot worship your beliefs but in your own house and designated places. I told you Mecca and Medina is a members zone you want to enter it you fulfill the requiremnts, to proclaim the Shahada
that I Worship none but the one true almighty Allah and Prophet Muhammad is is last messenger then no one will prohibit you. Is still someones does tell me i will fight for your case.

 

[nawab]

Yes but you also have to beleive in Prophet Muhammad as a last messanger of Allah , The seal of prophets.

Regarding Sufism, they might be influenced by Hindus, i cannot say for sure but they did converted Hindus, main point to be noted. Why because they only informed the spiritual aspects of Islam and not the worldly aspects of Islam. You can just beleive in a chapter and claim that you are beleiving in the whole book. e.g. Jihad is also a part of Islam you cannot avoid Jihad when it is neccessary.
You cant say i am not a duniyadar. involving in worldly affairs.

Is a Fisherman and a Fish the same, is a tecaher and a student same, nop.

See, brother. It is mentioned in your own Book that Muslims will come to India and that is the real religion superceeding the Arya Dharama. so should we be focusing on the similarities. I personally do not promote any Muslim except the Prophet PBUH. You said something about his marriage but did you know what rame said to Sita when he first saw her the way he described her beauty and that is mentioned in the word of god. Regarding the quranic verses i suggest you to read them in context these misconceptions have been dealt with many time.

I will just tell you that on the last day where every man will be questioned of his actions, please bear witness for me that i have infact informed you about Islam.

 

[Popeyesays]

Most mdoern Hindus have no trouble dealing with caste differences these days.

Regards,
Scott

 

[gotsoul]

I quote the following from Wikipedia:
Is the Black Stone a mere ordinary stone? Can any stone that absorbs sins be an ordinary stone?

Assalamualaykum(Peace be upon u)..

According to Islamic beliefs, the black stone was sent to Prophet Abraham and Prophet Ismael (may peace and blessing of Allah saw be upon them both). On the command of Allah saw, it was placed at the outer corner of the Kaba as an indicator as to where the tawaf(circling of Kaba) is suppose to be struggled.No Muslim would ever say that he/she worship the black stone of the Kaba.The reason why Muslims kiss the black stone is because Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) kissed it.The black stone doesn't benefit nor harm anyone.It is just a stone.Everyone is responsible for their own goodwill or their own sins.Everyone will face his/her Creator on their doing in the day of Judgement.

Hope that answers your question brother.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Assalamualaykum(Peace be upon u)..

According to Islamic beliefs, the black stone was sent to Prophet Abraham and Prophet Ismael (may peace and blessing of Allah saw be upon them both). On the command of Allah saw, it was placed at the outer corner of the Kaba as an indicator as to where the tawaf(circling of Kaba) is suppose to be struggled.No Muslim would ever say that he/she worship the black stone of the Kaba.The reason why Muslims kiss the black stone is because Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) kissed it.The black stone doesn't benefit nor harm anyone.It is just a stone.Everyone is responsible for their own goodwill or their own sins.Everyone will face his/her Creator on their doing in the day of Judgement.

Hope that answers your question brother.

Alaikumsalaam.

The Black Stone comes to its own during the Hajj, when it is not only kissed, but when kissed with conviction from the heart and the Ka’bah is circumambulated 7 times while praying to Allah, the Black Stone will bear witness to one’s supplication on the Day of Judgment, when the stone will be given vision and the power to talk. So when everyone faces Allah on the day of Judgement, the Black Stone sure enough will be there, to bear witness. Thus this is no ordinary stone.

In heaven Angels worshipped Allah by chanting and praying as they continually circled Al-baitul Ma’moor, the House meant for the worship of Allah by Angels, built under the throne of Allah. Allah wanted humankind to have a similar shrine from which to worship him, and he gave Adam a bright and pure white stone to bring to Earth from Paradise to set in the Ka’bah, the shrine he would build. The stone was called Alhajar Alsad, the happiest stone, because of all the stones in paradise it alone had been chosen for the Ka’bah. The stone, which feels smooth and soothing, also has a pleasant fragrance, which it is said to have emitted since the time of Abraham. .

There is no doubt that Mohammad, knowledgeable of the history of the Black Stone, was so overwhelmed by the sight of this unique stone he himself had installed in the Black Cube, that in one moment of ecstasy, he kissed it and that moment witnessed history’s greatest idol-breaker enact an idolatrous passion play. The passion play before the happy stone of Allah has been continued by Muslims till this day during the Hajj, without any guilty conscience of idolatry. Allah the Most Beneficent, Most Merciful.

Therefore, my brother, your answer is not satisfactory.

 

[TashaN]

Alaikumsalaam.

The Black Stone comes to its own during the Hajj, when it is not only kissed, but when kissed with conviction from the heart and the Ka’bah is circumambulated 7 times while praying to Allah, the Black Stone will bear witness to one’s supplication on the Day of Judgment, when the stone will be given vision and the power to talk. So when everyone faces Allah on the day of Judgement, the Black Stone sure enough will be there, to bear witness. Thus this is no ordinary stone.

In heaven Angels worshipped Allah by chanting and praying as they continually circled Al-baitul Ma’moor, the House meant for the worship of Allah by Angels, built under the throne of Allah. Allah wanted humankind to have a similar shrine from which to worship him, and he gave Adam a bright and pure white stone to bring to Earth from Paradise to set in the Ka’bah, the shrine he would build. The stone was called Alhajar Alsad, the happiest stone, because of all the stones in paradise it alone had been chosen for the Ka’bah. The stone, which feels smooth and soothing, also has a pleasant fragrance, which it is said to have emitted since the time of Abraham. .

There is no doubt that Mohammad, knowledgeable of the history of the Black Stone, was so overwhelmed by the sight of this unique stone he himself had installed in the Black Cube, that in one moment of ecstasy, he kissed it and that moment witnessed history’s greatest idol-breaker enact an idolatrous passion play. The passion play before the happy stone of Allah has been continued by Muslims till this day during the Hajj, without any guilty conscience of idolatry. Allah the Most Beneficent, Most Merciful.

Therefore, my brother, your answer is not satisfactory.

The blackstone was originally white, and it was sent from heaven, but it became black because of the sins of humanity. He kissed it just because this stone came from heaven, nothing else. Omar bin al-khatab, the second Caliph, it was reported that he kissed the blackstone and said, i know you are just a stone, and if prophet Mohammed didn't kiss you, i wouldn't.

By the way, give me your source please, if you don't mind.

 

[K.Venugopal]

The blackstone was originally white, and it was sent from heaven, but it became black because of the sins of humanity. He kissed it just because this stone came from heaven, nothing else. Omar bin al-khatab, the second Caliph, it was reported that he kissed the blackstone and said, i know you are just a stone, and if prophet Mohammed didn't kiss you, i wouldn't.

By the way, give me your source please, if you don't mind.

I got details of the blackstone from the following site after goggling for it.

http://www.essortment.com/all/blackstonekab_rlmq.htm

Are the details correct? Please inform me. Meanwhile, you say the white stone became black because of the sins of humanity. How can a stone change its colour because man sins? What is the link? Are you not conceding that this is a unique stone? I maintain that even to think that a stone can have human qualities (in this case the blackstone appears capable of emotion, which caused it in anguish to change its colour, like humans blush) is tantamount to being idolatrous. Pardon my question Mr. Abu Khalid, but are you being idolatrous?

 

[K.Venugopal]

Dear Brother, Exactly they have lived harmoniously there is no doubt, Harmoniously or under suppression. Look i just ask you in simple english, Can a sudra enter a house of a Brahmin. Can other caste members touch untouchables, because you cant touch them you call them Achoots.

Dear Brother, Untouchability is a thing of the past in Hinduism as it never had the sanction of its scriptures. Unlike Islam, which has only one scripture, the Quran, and not a word of it becomes obsolete, Hindu scriptures are divided into the eternal teachings and temporal teachings (Shrutis and Smritis). Temporal teachings/laws (smritis) keep changing as the society evolves. Islam’s greatest weakness is that it does not have a similar division and hence it is stuck with outdated shariat rules, temporal in nature valid for the middle-ages. Untouchability came into the Hindu society during a period of low ebb of Hindu affairs. Today a Sudra can enter the house of a Brahmin just as freely as anyone else can enter anyone else’s house. Meanwhile, slavery may not be a thing of the past in Islam. There is a possibility that it may make a comeback in an ideal Islamic society because Allah Himself approved of slavery by gifting Mohammad slave girls and the Prophet gladly accepted the slave girls. What is in the Quran cannot be altered and a Taliban of the future may reintroduce it.

Thats why your greetings involve no touching to a brother.

Greeting with palms and fingers together is the universal form of greeting in India and among the Buddhists of Asia. It is an expression of the teaching that all existence is divine and in greeting thus we acknowledge the divinity in the other.

In Islam we are told and programed to Shake hands and to wish peace on our brothers no matter of what difference.

Good programming.

This can also be confirmed by Jewish scriptures and Chrsitian scriptures when Jesus went to the upper room he said in Hebrew Sahlom Alekum in arabic As Salam Alekum in Luke 24:36.

Jesus said Salam Alekum and Muslims dutifully followed him. So what’s original in Islam?

The Jews and Muslims are cousins, so we have a similar greetings.

No matter that all Muslim nations want to wipe out Israel from the map.

However, The Christians claim that the Old Law is not validate today so they are excused. How can Lions and rats be in war with each other, pls explain.

I am unable to understand what you are saying. Please clarify.

If a fatwa was passed it only proved that we Muslims are tolerant to other faiths, we sacrifice our own appetite for you guys.

Yes, it is good to see Muslims becoming tolerant of other faiths (actually you should go further and accept the validity of all faiths) though the Quran does not see any merit in other religions.

Slavery is abolished in Islam, In Arabia before Islam they bad habbit which was indoctrinated in the Arab society was Slavery. Slavery was reduced in stages and now it is completely abolished.

Islam is what is in the Quran and how can you say Islam abolished slavery when Allah Himself undertook a slave transaction when he presented slave girls to His messenger Mohammad? So if slavery has been abolished, it has been done invalidating Allah’s action.

just like Alchohol it was reduced in stages now it is completely forbidden. We do things logically step by step with Patience.

Good job on the alcohol front, though in most Muslim countries liquor freely flows in the name of catering to non-Muslims. Muslims thus have access through obliging non-Muslims. The arrangement keeps all happy.

Your Right that the Haddiths and Sunnahs are not santioned,

Are you confirming that the Quran has not sanctioned Haddiths and Sunnahs of Mohammad? Please reconfirm. If a “Quran only” movement gains momentum, wouldn’t it lead to a revolution within Islam?

so the Prophet informed us that in the end of times, there would be alot of fabricated Haddiths artributted to our prophet. they only way to check if a haddith is authentic or not it should not go against the teachings of the quran.

This appears to have been a plot by Mohammad. Was he sanctioning his haddiths when Allah had not sanctioned them?

If it contradicts that Haddiths is not authentic, and thier are the Chains of narrations they cannot be broken as well.

Tons and tons of hadiths have already been certified as authentic. My question is, how can any haidth be authentic when it is not sanctioned by the Quran? The only hadith sanctioned by Allah is the Quran itself, for in the Quran the word hadith means the sayings of Allah and not of his messenger.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Now for Salaat, Muslims follow different Schools of thought at the moment the authentic ones are Hanafi, Shaffi, Malaki, Hanbali, and Jafri by Al Azhar University. The question is not where they place thier hands, the question is that where our prayers are directed at.

Very interesting. What you are saying here is that what is important is not the form of prayers but to whom you pray. The Hindus have gone a step ahead and asked, whom else can you pray to but God since all existence is God? Therefore all prayers, in whatever form or words, would but reach God, in whichever direction you pray. God does not reside in a particular direction. But for convenience, Islam places God in a certain direction. For convenience, Hinduism places God in idols. What’s unique about Islam then?

In Hindus some thye concentrate on Shiva, others Ram, other Laxmi depnding on thier own proffesions and needs.

Of course. If Islam can have 99 names of God (and one unknown name), then why can’t Hinduism name God differently and imagine God in different forms?

by the way no mosque will say shias are not allowed, or Sunnis are not allowed but the followers they perform according to thier own practices. I have prayed in a Shia Mosque in Iran, from my actions of prayers they knew i wasnt a Shia, they didnt kill me or look down on me. No matter you are a Shia, Sunni, Sufi, as long as you beleive in these 3 principles about the oneness of God, Prophet Muhammad as the Last messanger and the seal or Prophets, you are our brother.

Islam lays down conditions for brotherhood. Hinduism has no conditions for brotherhood. According to the Vedas, all the world is a family.

Even those uneducated Shias or Sunnis who labeled themselved are also Sinners and they will also be accounted for.

Which means all Muslims who label themselves Shia or Sunni, except the educated few, will be accounted for. Looks like very few Muslims are going to be in Paradise. The rest will be in hell with Kafirs.

In Islam there are no Sunnis, Shias or Sufis.

If it was not planned to have them, how have they come about - that too within a short period after Quran was written? Has Islam failed?

There are only Muslims and Kafirs (belivers and non-beleivers).

According to Islam, Kafirs are not just non-believers. They are people whom Allah does not like.

Shias and Sunnis were intially a political movement to who the heir of the prophet would be. It is not a sector but rather an opinion.

Actually, Islam itself is a political movement. It aims at a world government headed by a Caliph or Ayatollah with the Shariat as the constitution.

Has i have said to you we muslims we beleive that our way is the truth, if not we wont beleive in it.

You are not wrong in saying your way is the truth. But you are wrong in saying your way is the only way that is the truth. Truth is one and it can be reached through many ways and all the ways that reach truth are true ways.

We have no room for Errors. Thats why Debates are encouraged in Islam. Thats why the Pakistani Government do not allow Shia Sunni debates because they dont want us to become, thanks to these stupis polititians, Same situation in India.

But you have not responded to the error I pointed out in the Quran – the claim that Allah created life.

Exactly we beleieve that we Muslims are supperior to non-muslims.

You still believe like a Brahmin used to believe against untouchables?

Any club you join a member and a non-member do not have the same Honor, responsiblity, rights.

Islam is like a club with membership rights. It is not a teaching to reveal the divinity in man, but a club seeking to increase its membership. You have said it.

However we have rights for non-muslims, please tell me what rights do your scriptures offer for Non-hindus, please clarify.

The greatest right Hinduism offers to mankind is the right of mankind to awaken to its divinity. This right is forbidden in Islam and mankind is to have no aspiration higher than being Allah’s slave.

Any faith that does not beleive in Prophet Muhammad as the last messanger is not a muslim, he has to beleive in Prophet Muhammad PBUH as the seal or prophets. The Ahmedis have thier own Last prophet. so they are not Muslims. and as you say are 2nd class citizens.

When it is said that Islam is a religion perfected by Allah, the whole sequence of such a claim can be understood only if we take into consideration the first action of Mohammad in his journey to reveal the Quran. He meditated in the caves of Hira. The key word is ‘meditated’. We can know the higher truths only in meditation. What was unique is Mohammad only bequeathed his gleanings upon meditation but not the meditative technique (unless you consider salaat as meditation – but the goal of salaat is not self-realisation). Mohammad's failure to teach others his meditative technique of self-realisation led to Islam becoming an exclusive religion and not an inclusive one like Hinduism, which is based on meditations of self-realisation.

Show me one verse from the Hindu scriptures were it offers Freedom of Speech.

Verily it is said by Allah that Muslims are a people of the book. I think Allah meant more than you have understood. First of all you must understand that Hinduism in not dependent on its scriptures. It is not the scriptures that have created Hinduism but Hinduism that has spawned numerous scriptures. Hinduism, as I have said before, is the expression of the divinity discovered by meditators at the highest level. Hinduism itself is called the Moksha Shastra or Science of Freedom. Therefore Hinduism is not just about freedom of speech, but also freedom of the speaker.

We follow the Quran, if the Quran says that Shias are Kafirs then we will accept if it didnt mention, then they are not.

The Quran probably did not foresee the Shias because Shiaism happened after the Quran was completed. But the principle is there in the Quran – kill the kafirs.

We dont have to follow Sunni/Shia organisations especially in Pakistan. The best book to learn about Islam is the Quran.

Please preach it to the Sunni/Shia organizations in Pakistan.

 

[K.Venugopal]

there is no need of reforming Islam, when Islam had already gave permission to the beleiving women to enter the mosque in the Ladies section. whats ther to argue about. if there are muslims who do not follow the Quran , blame those Muslims not Islam. I said before Blame the Driver not the car.

Jesus said a tree is known by its fruits.

I did not put a sword on your throat and ask you to convert to Islam did I, I am infact learning from you.

Thank God. What have you learned from me?

Our Doctrine, We beleive in One almighty God,

Don’t forget His messenger.

it tells us in the Quran dont you see the Universe is peaceful, if there were more gods besides Allah, they would be often in Conflict like Vishnu and brahma always fighting and Shiva had to compromise for them.

Hinduism tells us not just about our world, but also the world of Gods. About God’s family, God’s affairs and God’s history. Islam too would have talked about Allah, his world of angles, his problem with Satan and much more. But since He decided to have only one Quran, how much could He have put in one single volume? Hinduism has no dearth of scriptures. So it’s all there in Hindu scriptures.

this books informs scientific facts, tells us hisorical events and future events. The creation of the universe,

You have not taken up my question in my last post - please inform of a single scientific fact in the Quran that was not known to mankind before the Quran and one scientific fact that is still not known to modern science.

a universal brotherhood means actually Islamic brotherhood. You were right here.

And you have thereby conceded the limitation of Islam.

Surplus of women in this age what solution did the Bible or Veda have informed you, In Quran Allah tells us you can marry 4 women. this is a solution.

Allah creates a problem and then suggests the solution? Allah has a great sense of humour.

Talks about prophets before. 1/3 of the Quran speaks about Allahs might himself where A person can develop a Man and Allah relation.

I am interested in this. Can you please tell me more about developing Man and Allah relationship? I thought the only relationship possible in Islam was a Master-Slave relationship.

by subbmission we turn to slaves. we are not forced we desire to become slaves of Allah. our limitations are told , our weakness are explained. it is not just a religion it is a way of life.

I think it is Satan’s work to make man want to be a slave of Allah. Allah Himself would have wanted us to be as glorious as He is. This is an indicator that the Vedas are the true message of Allah and not the Quran.

In Hindusim, what does it teaches you everything is divine so worship it , you see a monkey worship it, you see a snake worship it , you see a human worship it.

Do you know that Mohammad said that even sex is worship, provided it is done with the right approach? Worshiping something means seeing divinity in that thing. Of course, many worship mechanically. But if you truly see the divine in a thing, in anything, you would be worshiping – a truly sublime worship.

My friend i think you are not learned in science, there was a Big Bang, initially the world was a nebula, a bang happened and created gallaxies, the universe. it is foretold the same in 21:33. We have created the exanding universe which is foretold again,

Muslims came to know of the big bang only after Western scientists posited the theory, though they had been reading the Quran for over 1000 years. I wonder what they made out of the supposed verses in the Quran all these years before science talked about the big bang?

we have created Mountains to withstand the earth from moving when you walk on the earth.

Mountains used as pegs? A brilliant idea from Allah.

the whole proccess of Embrology is mentioned in the quran without microscope,

In Quranic embryology, the bones are formed first and then the muscles. This, I understand, is in contradiction to what modern science says. Moreover, this error in the Quran is not an original one. The Greeks also thought the bones are formed first and then the muscles. Therefore what is in the Quran on embryology might have been picked up by Mohammad from the Greeks and may not be from Allah – for Allah knows all.

you just tell me one scientific fact from Hinduism according to the scriptures.Thanks

That all existence is indivisible is the greatest scientific fact to come out of the books of Hinduism.

Yes but we dont consider everything to be divine right but you hindus do, so why burn wives alive because they dont have money.

Burning wives is a horrendous act not even remotely sanctioned by Hinduism. Hinduism considers marriage as a sacred institution and not merely a contractual one, like Islam does.

Honor killings is not allowed in Islam this was also a pratice in the sub continent by non-muslims like Hindus and Sikhs. Which were absorbed later.

It is unfortunate that Muslims absorbed this ugly facet of relationship. Has there been any fatwa against honour killings?

Muhammad did not killed any woman onthe basis of Honor Killings.

Mohammad had a way with women. He so charmed them they gave him no problems.

I used the word Dowry because you wouldnt understand the word Haq-Maher which is directly translated as Marriage gift not dowry you guys make sacred marriages into business contracts. even if a Muslim is poor he has to give something which satisfies his wife as a gift not to her family. the family does have anything to do in marriage.

The bottom line is that the richer man gives the bigger gift and gets the more beautiful girl.

For Sri Sri Ravi Shankar obviously there was nothing left to be said by Him, he even wrote lies to promote unity. In islam we say the truth is bitter, we wont care if you like me or not but this is the truth i rather you be upset with me because i am telling the truth but i will not make up lies to promote our fake friendship and brotherhood.

Can you tell me what lies Sri Sri Ravi Shankar wrote? What he did was he wrote a booklet in the aftermath of Gujarat riots (which was triggered off by Muslims burning to death 57 Hindu pilgrims in a train) and implied that certain words in Islam and Hinduism indicate the commonality of Islamic and Hindu beliefs. This enraged Muslims who did not want to see anything in common with Hinduism. When the subject came up in the “debate” between Sri Sri and Dr. Zakir Naik, Sri Sri apologized if Muslims felt offended and said that he mentioned it only to highlight the commonalty of approach in religions rather than mark out the differences. There were no lies involved.

 

[K.Venugopal]

the 4 marriages are neccassary for today because the surplus of women what will you do . plus many guys become homosexuals then what will you do, the best option share husbands.

It is tantamount to Allah saying, “Hey folks, I goofed up in the man-woman ratio. How about sharing wives?” You are only caricaturing Allah by justifying 4 wives with such rationale.

how any wives Krishna had.pls inform.

Krishna had 16,008 wives.

Maybe for you classes are determined accroding to wallets not for me,

For you it is all in black and white. Muslims are your brothers, non-Muslims are infidels destined to burn in hellfire.

Maybe people say that your ancestors have an effect on you. Maybe before my families were HIndus at that time they were proud of their family now i am also proud of my family. the difference is my Biological family and Spiritual family.

Only, when your biological family contradicts your spiritual family you won’t hesitate to put the biological family to the sword. In Hinduism all families are allowed to live and let live. There was never any ethnic cleansing in the history of Hinduism.

Sorry, but anything with error we have no room for it, so we will not allow that

Of course, by error you mean anything that contradicts the Quran. But what if the Quran contradicts itself, as it does in many places?

doesnt mean that you cannot worship your beliefs but in your own house and designated places.

Very gratuitous of you. Like a master deciding the slave’s position. Unfortunately for you, the world is not ready to be Islam’s slave.

I told you Mecca and Medina is a members zone you want to enter it you fulfill the requiremnts, to proclaim the Shahada that I Worship none but the one true almighty Allah and Prophet Muhammad is is last messenger then no one will prohibit you. Is still someones does tell me i will fight for your case. Yes but you also have to beleive in Prophet Muhammad as a last messanger of Allah , The seal of prophets.

Islam has the right to its sacred spaces. No one would grudge it. But Islam tends to deny others their sacred spaces. That’s the problem.

Regarding Sufism, they might be influenced by Hindus, i cannot say for sure but they did converted Hindus, main point to be noted. Why because they only informed the spiritual aspects of Islam and not the worldly aspects of Islam.

The spiritual aspects of Islam (or any religion for that matter) are acceptable because they are about the eternal truths. But the worldly aspects are temporal and as society evolves, worldly realities change. We can’t have 7th century Arab desert world view run our 21st century global village, can we?

You can just beleive in a chapter and claim that you are beleiving in the whole book. e.g. Jihad is also a part of Islam you cannot avoid Jihad when it is neccessary.You cant say i am not a duniyadar. involving in worldly affairs.

If jihad means fighting the negative within us, then we should all be jihadis. But if it means killing the kafirs, then jihad is uncivilized.

Is a Fisherman and a Fish the same, is a tecaher and a student same, nop.

The essence of everything is the same, though the forms may be different. The fisherman and the fish, the teacher and his student - all have life in common. All existence is one, with varied forms.

See, brother. It is mentioned in your own Book that Muslims will come to India and that is the real religion superceeding the Arya Dharama.

Islam has not yet superseded the Arya Dharma in India and is unlikely to.

so should we be focusing on the similarities. I personally do not promote any Muslim except the Prophet PBUH.

You have no choice.

You said something about his marriage but did you know what rame said to Sita when he first saw her the way he described her beauty and that is mentioned in the word of god.

Is describing beauty vulgar?

Regarding the quranic verses i suggest you to read them in context these misconceptions have been dealt with many time.

I agree contexts have to be taken into account in the reading of any literature. The Quran contains texts that call for the killing of kafirs and contexts explain that the call was only for a particular historical circumstance. The question is, why have such texts in a book that claims to be the eternal message for all mankind?

I will just tell you that on the last day where every man will be questioned of his actions, please bear witness for me that i have infact informed you about Islam.

What means “bearing witness”? Would Allah need me to tell Him that you were a sincere Muslim who carried out his obligations? Allah knows best.

 

[TashaN]

I got details of the blackstone from the following site after goggling for it.

http://www.essortment.com/all/blackstonekab_rlmq.htm

Are the details correct? Please inform me. Meanwhile, you say the white stone became black because of the sins of humanity. How can a stone change its colour because man sins? What is the link? Are you not conceding that this is a unique stone? I maintain that even to think that a stone can have human qualities (in this case the blackstone appears capable of emotion, which caused it in anguish to change its colour, like humans blush) is tantamount to being idolatrous. Pardon my question Mr. Abu Khalid, but are you being idolatrous?

First of all, what i mentioned is a fact, and no, haha, don't worry, i'm not being idolatrous.

For instance, if any material in this earthly life changed from a condition to another, or from a color to another, it would be normal. The same thing can be said with this stone, but i already mentioned that this stone came from heaven, and it's not an earthly stone. Just so you understand where i'm coming from. You really need to know more information about the muslims preciption of the afterlife. In our dogma, it's well known for example that, we, human beings, in the hereafter will be judged using a unique scale. Imagine yourself trying to know your weight and you found that it's zero?!

Even if you brought a very fat person, another thin person's weight might be more than him. Why is that? because the scale at that time is based on how pious and how good you were, but not the normal weight as what you had in this life.

Just another simple fact, imagine yourself in the space, you will experine a totally different situation, as any other item coming from the space would behave on the ame way, it will behave in a totally different way. Here, this is only about an item coming from the nearest space, imagine if it came from a place where it's a thousands and thousands of years far from us, what would be the behavior and attributes of that item would be? would it be the same as earth's? would it keep the same qualities? of course not!

I'll assume that you still didn't grasp this de facto in muslims dogma, but if you had a little thought of the bigger picture, you will know that Muslims believe in heaven and hell, and if you think there is no heaven or hell, so the idea of a stone coming from heaven will be absolutely ridicolous to you. That's why you thought this stone has emotions!

It doesn't has emotions because it's not alive as what you thought, but the nature of this stone get affected with the spirituallity of the people on earth, as any stone on earth would be affected by, let's say, weather.

Regarding your source, i was trying find where does it mention what you have said earlier:

(There is no doubt that Mohammad, knowledgeable of the history of the Black Stone, was so overwhelmed by the sight of this unique stone he himself had installed in the Black Cube, that in one moment of ecstasy, he kissed it and that moment witnessed history’s greatest idol-breaker enact an idolatrous passion play.)

But i didn't find it there!

These were your own words or you found them somewhere else?

Anyway, read this from your own source:

(From descriptions of its substance and color, modern Western scientists have agree that the Black Stone probably did not originate on this [FONT=verdana,sans-serif]planet[/FONT]. But they surmise that rather than having been brought down by Adam from a celestial paradise, it is most likely a fragment of a meteor that fell to Earth uncounted years ago.)