Meat eating fascists attack vegan cafe

[Madhuri]

Killing a pig for bacon.

Killing a child for being born Jewish.

Valid comparison. Gotcha.

I think the problem is that you're not understanding the point being made. Because what you've written above is not what is being implied.

 

[Wirey]

I think the problem is that you're not understanding the point being made. Because what you've written above is not what is being implied.

Actually, it is exactly what the original quote implied. It read "The animals who are tortured on factory farms endure worse than what Jews did in the concentration camps. In the animals' eyes you are Hitler." To say a chicken who lacks self awareness and is unable to fathom what is going on suffered more than a woman who watched a grown man dash her child's brains out on a wall immediately before she and her other children were painfully suffocated with bug poison (real story!) is ludicrous and allows me to disregard that person as a zealot who is incapable of rational thought. I understand that there are people who feel factory farming is wrong and should be stopped. I am not one of them, but that doesn't make me right. But if someone has more compassion for a calf than they have for people I would suggest that speaks to a failing in that person. That was my point.

 

[Madhuri]

Actually, it is exactly what the original quote implied. It read "The animals who are tortured on factory farms endure worse than what Jews did in the concentration camps. In the animals' eyes you are Hitler." To say a chicken who lacks self awareness and is unable to fathom what is going on suffered more than a woman who watched a grown man dash her child's brains out on a wall immediately before she and her other children were painfully suffocated with bug poison (real story!) is ludicrous and allows me to disregard that person as a zealot who is incapable of rational thought. I understand that there are people who feel factory farming is wrong and should be stopped. I am not one of them, but that doesn't make me right. But if someone has more compassion for a calf than they have for people I would suggest that speaks to a failing in that person. That was my point.

Ok, that's fair enough. I think the original commenter will need to respond with their explanation.

 

[Madhuri]

On a different note, why do you think that factory farming is ok (not 'wrong') @Wirey ?

 

[Wirey]

On a different note, why do you think that factory farming is ok (not 'wrong') @Wirey ?

Because I am unable to view my personal viewpoints as gospel. The consumption of meat as food has been going on for all of recorded human history. It will probably continue until we are gone. The fact that we've managed to adapt to our environment well enough to reach population levels that require factory farming is the root cause of the problem. That said, the decision to eat meat or not is an individual one. Like the vast majority of people (I think) I assign a much higher value to the lives of humans than I do to the lives of animals. Our societies lay down legal systems that reflect this. If I hit your dog with my car and damage my bumper, I can make you pay for it. If I hit your kid or grandma the rules are quite different.

 

[Wirey]

You might have a point if you could back either of these two statements up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-awareness

 

[Madhuri]

Because I am unable to view my personal viewpoints as gospel. The consumption of meat as food has been going on for all of recorded human history. It will probably continue until we are gone. The fact that we've managed to adapt to our environment well enough to reach population levels that require factory farming is the root cause of the problem. That said, the decision to eat meat or not is an individual one. Like the vast majority of people (I think) I assign a much higher value to the lives of humans than I do to the lives of animals. Our societies lay down legal systems that reflect this. If I hit your dog with my car and damage my bumper, I can make you pay for it. If I hit your kid or grandma the rules are quite different.

The norms or laws of society do not always reflect what is 'good' or 'fair', do you agree?

I agree that the population levels are the root problem or cause of factory farming. However due to other aspects of modernisation such as globalisation, we have the ability to change our lifestyles. That's the beauty of progress. Knowledge and technology can completely change our behaviour, attitudes, culture and lifestyle. Unfortunately it's a human tendency to use and abuse without taking much responsibility. Hence the continuing destruction of our planet without much effort to clean up the mess. Similarly, humans have adopted extremely cruel farming methods to accommodate the increased demand (and vast over consumption) for meat. Granted there are people researching ways to develop less horrific and traumatising methods of producing meat... but I'm sure the lack of care from the general population will make those technologies slow coming.

But knowing that alternatives to factory farming are possible in the future, is it not better to put pressure on the industry to make ethical changes (which must involve the population being more aware of the cruelty involved in the industry, the traumatic impact on people who work there and the negative health effects of this type of farming on humans) rather than just brush the whole thing off as 'humans have always eaten meat and humans are better than animals so we can treat them how we want'?

 

[Wirey]

The norms or laws of society do not always reflect what is 'good' or 'fair', do you agree?

I agree that the population levels are the root problem or cause of factory farming. However due to other aspects of modernisation such as globalisation, we have the ability to change our lifestyles. That's the beauty of progress. Knowledge and technology can completely change our behaviour, attitudes, culture and lifestyle. Unfortunately it's a human tendency to use and abuse without taking much responsibility. Hence the continuing destruction of our planet without much effort to clean up the mess. Similarly, humans have adopted extremely cruel farming methods to accommodate the increased demand (and vast over consumption) for meat. Granted there are people researching ways to develop less horrific and traumatising methods of producing meat... but I'm sure the lack of care from the general population will make those technologies slow coming.

But knowing that alternatives to factory farming are possible in the future, is it not better to put pressure on the industry to make ethical changes (which must involve the population being more aware of the cruelty involved in the industry, the traumatic impact on people who work there and the negative health effects of this type of farming on humans) rather than just brush the whole thing off as 'humans have always eaten meat and humans are better than animals so we can treat them how we want'?

You make excellent points, but I think they may be a little more idealistic than most people are willing to embrace. The plain truth is that most people don't give a rat's patootie about the welfare of the animal that became their dinner, and they will continue to feel so as long as they eat animals. Future improvements are all well and good (and necessary as our global population continues to expand) but for the vast majority of people in society the future might as well be a laser beam that produces Cordon Bleu. The morals and ethics of animal consumption aside, all I said was that comparing a beef farm to Auschwitz was a false equivalency. I believe that to be self explanatory.

 

[Wirey]

Something having occurred until now does not make it okay. We have outlined that multiple times now.


Factory farms use more food than they produce. I'm not following your logic.


Alright. What does that have to do with the question posed to you?


Why is the legal system your basis for explaining what is moral?

So many tangents! Is a chicken farm the exact same as Treblinka? All I was saying is that it's not, and if you think it is, you're ignorable. Please, are they the same?

 

[Wirey]

Of course not.
I'm questioning your assertion that factory farms are okay. If that makes you uncomfortable you may ignore me.


I think both are morally reprehensible.

If you are uncomfortable with me questioning your reasoning for thinking things go ahead and ignore.

First, I'm A-Okay with food farms. I used to run a trap line and hunt, so dead animal don't bother me at all. People gotta eat and a pig is a turnip with a head from my perspective. The point @Madhuri made regarding the efficiency of these operations is about all that gives me pause with them.

And if you see food farms and Treblinka as equal, maybe we should drop it. We see the world through a very different lens.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Who says vegans are the fanatics;

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36416501

The attack of the sausage wielding Nazis eh. Sounds like it could be a Troma flick.

 

[Nous]

Buying a second hand leather jacket that is 50 years old does not contribute to the suffering of animals. I wear Dr. Martins, which are made of leather and had them for 3 years now. Some people would say I'm not vegan because I wear them, but who cares? It doesn't interfere with my principles as long as I don't buy another pair or any other leather footwear next time I need shoes.

I say the same. To my mind, buying and wearing a secondhand leather jacket is better for animals generally than buying a new, say, cotton jacket. Or even a new jacket of synthetic material.

 

[Nous]

First, I'm A-Okay with food farms. I used to run a trap line and hunt, so dead animal don't bother me at all. People gotta eat and a pig is a turnip with a head from my perspective.

So you have to retreat into these stupid fantasies in order to try to feel good about causing innocent creatures unnecessary horrid suffering.

 

[Wirey]

So you have to retreat into these stupid fantasies in order to try to feel good about causing innocent creatures unnecessary suffering.

It's all part of my cover story to make sure no one ever finds out I helped Oswald. I'm the one who blinded the Secret Service with my pyramid laser that I got from the US Government for helping put thermite in the Towers.

 

[Nous]

It's all part of my cover story to make sure no one ever finds out I helped Oswald. I'm the one who blinded the Secret Service with my pyramid laser that I got from the US Government for helping put thermite in the Towers.

You've convinced you really are that confused.

 

[Wirey]

You've convinced you really are that confused.

English?

 

[Nous]

English?

Yes, that is English. It's only unfortunate you don't understand it. Many of the animals you enjoy tormenting would.

 

[Wirey]

Yes, that is English. It's only unfortunate you don't understand it. Many of the animals you enjoy tormenting would.

Yes, that's Wirey, the old animal tormentor. Why, last night I told my cat I never really loved her, and she cried and cried. At least I don't suffer from a lack of intellectual character. Can you imagine being some constipated-brained conspiracy theory believer?

 

[Nous]

Animal trappers are psychopaths.

 

[Nous]

At least I don't suffer from a lack of intellectual character.

Apparently you are an expert at fooling yourself.