Meat eating fascists attack vegan cafe

[Twilight Hue]

Get real.

Choose life.

Yea. Every single farm looks like that. Stop dreaming.

 

[Chakra]

Interesting that neither of you addressed my point...
What to do with the extra cows that already exist.

What? Once the demand of beef goes down, the cow population will also go down.

 

[MountainPine]

I'd say animals used day-in and day-out for dairy products oftentimes suffer the most of any livestock animals.

Proves my point exactly. To be a vegetarian is to be a hypocrite. I know I was before I went vegan. My mentality was "If it ain't meat, it's okay to eat."

 

[MountainPine]

Hitler may have been a vegetarian. So what? If the supposed "most evil man in history" had compassion on the animals, what does that say about you? The animals who are tortured on factory farms endure worse than what Jews did in the concentration camps. In the animals' eyes you are Hitler.

 

[Madhuri]

What is illogical about it?
If cow farts are causing global warming, makes sense to lower the cow population, right?

The only way to reduce the number of cows is to reduce the demand for them. Aka, the more people stop eating them, the less farmers will breed them which = less cows.

 

[Nous]

Yea. Every single farm looks like that.

If you ever become able to demonstrate that your claim-- that "[m]ost operations have healthy well fed animals with plenty time out in the field"--is true, be sure to provide a few pictures.

 

[Nous]

Proves my point exactly. To be a vegetarian is to be a hypocrite. I know I was before I went vegan. My mentality was "If it ain't meat, it's okay to eat."

I have a friend who also reads the word "vegetarian" as meaning lacto-ovo-vegetarian. I generally refer to myself as "vegetarian" just because I don't really like the word "vegan". Vegan is a difficult word to define. According to some definitions, wearing the 50-year-old leather jacket that I bought secondhand makes me not a vegan. On the other hand, I've seen definitions of "vegan" that would allow a person to eat animal flesh regularly as long as s/he is trying to reduce his/her consumption.

 

[Wirey]

Hitler may have been a vegetarian. So what? If the supposed "most evil man in history" had compassion on the animals, what does that say about you? The animals who are tortured on factory farms endure worse than what Jews did in the concentration camps. In the animals' eyes you are Hitler.

Really?

 

[MountainPine]

I have a friend who also reads the word "vegetarian" as meaning lacto-ovo-vegetarian. I generally refer to myself as "vegetarian" just because I don't really like the word "vegan". Vegan is a difficult word to define. According to some definitions, wearing the 50-year-old leather jacket that I bought secondhand makes me not a vegan. On the other hand, I've seen definitions of "vegan" that would allow a person to eat animal flesh regularly as long as s/he is trying to reduce his/her consumption.

"Vegan" means your diet is strictly plant-based and you don't generally wear animal products, meaning not buying anything that would contribute to the demand for leather and other animal based apparel. Buying a second hand leather jacket that is 50 years old does not contribute to the suffering of animals. I wear Dr. Martins, which are made of leather and had them for 3 years now. Some people would say I'm not vegan because I wear them, but who cares? It doesn't interfere with my principles as long as I don't buy another pair or any other leather footwear next time I need shoes.

 

[Maponos]

 

[Wirey]

Well, he's not wrong.
Factory farms are essentially death factories.

Comparing the consumption of animals for food, something we've done forever, to the Holocaust is the kind of mental stretch that labels you as an extremist and gives me permission to ignore you.

Someone who believes that their worldview is the only allowable one is exactly the same as Hitler. See?

 

[Wirey]

Implying that just because we've done something "forever" (which can be argued with,) does not make it any less an immoral practice.
If you are getting into cultural morals the same logic can be applied to FGM.


You're the one doing the labeling.

You're the one per-missing anything.


I'm not quite sure what this means due to how you worded it.
If you mean to say that saying one's moral beliefs are the only morally acceptable one makes them Hitler, you could apply that logic to people who think murder is wrong.
If you mean to say that we are in anyway comparing meat eaters to Hitler, we are not. We are saying that factory farms are essentially death factories for animals.

We believe that how we treat life should be based on it's capacity to suffer and it's sentience. Not whether or not it's our species (because that makes no logical sense.)

If the idea that killing large amounts of sentient life in a terrible way which creates mass suffering is not equivalent to killing large amounts of sentient life in a terrible way that creates suffering, perhaps you need to evaluate your beliefs.

Just because we have done something "forever" doesn't make it moral, acceptable, ethical, or something to be continued.

I was saying that as soon as you compare anything to Hitler/the Nazis/the Holocaust, it's proof you have no real ideas and are done. If the only way I can discredit you is to pull out the Hitler card, I have no cards.

 

[Madhuri]

Comparing the consumption of animals for food, something we've done forever

Actually they are comparing it to factory farming which is in fact a very recent practice and is in every way, entirely inhumane.

 

[Wirey]

Actually they are comparing it to factory farming which is in fact a very recent practice and is in every way, entirely inhumane.

Fine, we fail to show humanity to things that aren't human. Granted. My issue was with the Holocaust reference as a logical failure.

 

[Madhuri]

I was saying that as soon as you compare anything to Hitler/the Nazis/the Holocaust, it's proof you have no real ideas and are done.

I think that people make the comparison to Hitler because the Holocaust is something that most people actually feel bad about and happens to demonstrate a similar attitude that humans have toward others. That is, to stop seeing the personality/sentience and instead to objectify (in the case of animals) or dehumanise (in the case of the people killed by the Nazis).

 

[Madhuri]

Fine, we fail to show humanity to things that aren't human. Granted. My issue was with the Holocaust reference as a logical failure.

We fail to show humanity to many things, including other humans often times (eg/ the Nazi's treatment of Jews, various societies' attitudes toward slaves, some cultural attitude towards women etc). Animals are just another group that are treated as ours to dominate and abuse at this particular time in history.

 

[Wirey]

We fail to show humanity to many things, including other humans often times (eg/ the Nazi's treatment of Jews, various societies' attitudes toward slaves, some cultural attitude towards women etc). Animals are just another group that are treated as ours to dominate and abuse at this particular time in history.

I agree. But to compare the mistreatment of a cow to the mistreatment of a child is a stretch. There's a very good reason every society on earth places more value on human life than on animal life, and if you are unable to see that and stoop to comparing the death of a chicken for food to the murder of a child based on a political decision I feel you are unworthy of engagement. That as all I was trying to say.

 

[Wirey]

Did you ever notice how often your posts are 15 seconds too late?

 

[Wirey]

Or y'know, It's a valid comparison.

Killing a pig for bacon.

Killing a child for being born Jewish.

Valid comparison. Gotcha.

 

[Madhuri]

I agree. But to compare the mistreatment of a cow to the mistreatment of a child is a stretch. There's a very good reason every society on earth places more value on human life than on animal life, and if you are unable to see that and stoop to comparing the death of a chicken for food to the murder of a child based on a political decision I feel you are unworthy of engagement. That as all I was trying to say.

I'm not sure that anyone is arguing that animals are equal or superior to humans.
But again we are not talking about simple killing for food. We're talking about factory farming. Unless I've missed something?

Of course people put their own specie's lives above other species. It's our nature to give greater value to those things most similar to our selves whether it's family, community, nation, race, religion etc. Well, except for Hindus. We do love our cows