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Meat eating fascists attack vegan cafe

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
By the way, I'm just putting out there that I only eat meat once a week or so. Talking about cultural diets or human evolution or anthropology doesn't change that I understand I have the luxury of not needing meat and still be healthy, and that it's a questionably ethical decision to indulge which should be thought about.
I just wanted to point out that we did naturally evolve as omnivores, but it would be a naturalist fallacy to say that means omnivorian diets are 'superior'.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
10 people that only eat meat once a week, are better than 9 vegetarians and one heavy meat eater. IMHO My message is to reduce meat consumption, and eliminate it if you can. For the environment, to save plants, to protect the dignity of animals.
 

ScottySatan

Well-Known Member
Number of times I've seen people complain about vegetarians being agressive about it, about 100, not including online

Number I've times I've seen a vegetarian do that: 0, not even in college.

Number of times I've seen a meat eater get upset after a vegetarian politely declined food, saying they were a vegetarian, about 10.
because:

Food should be uniting, instead of dividing us.

They're upset that their hospitality was rejected. And they feel like they're being judged.

Number of times I've seen that polite encounter get translated in the meat carter's mind to vegan aggressiveness: most of those 10.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The vegetarian's dirty secret.....
"I don't avoid meat because I like animals,
I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants!"

It's true.
I heard it somewhere.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
The real plant haters are the cows you're eating, Revoltingest!! One cow eats more plants than 5 vegetarians.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The real plant haters are the cows you're eating, Revoltingest!! One cow eats more plants than 5 vegetarians.
How can you look at this sweet (& tasty) animal, & find her to be hater?
cow-wig-blonde-hair-flowing-locks-wind-14026503146.gif
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
We don't need to see a picture of your girlfriend, do we!! LOL
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I'm sensing You know nothing of anthropology or evolution...
You haven't pointed out anything erroneous I've said about anthropology or evolution.

The fact is that you haven't provided any coherent definition for a "natural" diet. And apparently you recognize your inability to substantiate your claims about fat and the human CNS and brain.

BTW, Herculano-Houzel found that humans do not have an unusually large brain, but, like other hominids, have a basic primate brain scaled-up in number of brain cells. Gorillas’ and orangutans’ brains also abide by the primate cellular scaling rules; they, however, developed bigger bodies.

Gorilla and Orangutan Brains Conform to the Primate Cellular Scaling Rules: Implications for Human Evolution

Abstract

Gorillas and orangutans are primates at least as large as humans, but their brains amount to about one third of the size of the human brain. This discrepancy has been used as evidence that the human brain is about 3 times larger than it should be for a primate species of its body size. In contrast to the view that the human brain is special in its size, we have suggested that it is the great apes that might have evolved bodies that are unusually large, on the basis of our recent finding that the cellular composition of the human brain matches that expected for a primate brain of its size, making the human brain a linearly scaled-up primate brain in its number of cells. To investigate whether the brain of great apes also conforms to the primate cellular scaling rules identified previously, we determine the numbers of neuronal and other cells that compose the orangutan and gorilla cerebella, use these numbers to calculate the size of the brain and of the cerebral cortex expected for these species, and show that these match the sizes described in the literature. Our results suggest that the brains of great apes also scale linearly in their numbers of neurons like other primate brains, including humans. The conformity of great apes and humans to the linear cellular scaling rules that apply to other primates that diverged earlier in primate evolution indicates that prehistoric Homo species as well as other hominins must have had brains that conformed to the same scaling rules, irrespective of their body size. We then used those scaling rules and published estimated brain volumes for various hominin species to predict the numbers of neurons that composed their brains. We predict that Homo heidelbergensis and Homo neanderthalensis had brains with approximately 80 billion neurons, within the range of variation found in modern Homo sapiens. We propose that while the cellular scaling rules that apply to the primate brain have remained stable in hominin evolution (since they apply to simians, great apes and modern humans alike), the Colobinae and Pongidae lineages favored marked increases in body size rather than brain size from the common ancestor with the Homo lineage, while the Homo lineage seems to have favored a large brain instead of a large body, possibly due to the metabolic limitations to having both.​

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3064932/
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
They don't cook it.
They just contract infectious diseases and parasites and die.
Tom

We don't need to cook it and, in fact, most traditional Arctic and some Asiatic cultures do not. We would just have a higher rate of illness and intestinal disease until those less resistant died, much like animals do today.

Add to that factory farming encourages more pernicious bacteria and parasites that raw wild game wouldn't. Also that most mammals do in fact carry intestinal parasites which can and do kill them at times. So it's not like obligate carnivores are somehow immune.

Finally, many vegetables and fungus also need to be cooked to produce best nutrient gain and eliminate the most toxins and common bacteria. Our ancestors lived off grass roots, bulbs, insects and fish more than any staple vegetable.
There is a difference in the gastric pH of humans and animals that are adapted to a diet consisting of a significant percentage of mammals.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
There is a difference in the gastric pH of humans and animals that are adapted to a diet consisting of a significant percentage of mammals.
Humans are animals and animals have different gastric ph and acidity depending on the species. Some obligate carnivores have much stronger acids than others (hyena is stronger than grizzly, for example). Whereas some herbivores also have specific organ and flora mechanisms we don't have to destroy plant toxins and/or break down tougher plant cells. Our stomachs are capable of handling both to more limited extents, just like most omnivores. It's worth pointing out that humans are **** at breaking down cellulose like obligate herbivores, can't handle a lot of common plant based toxins like a lot of obligate herbivores, can't manufacture vitamin b12 in high enough quantity to not need animal supplementation or cultivated through modern bred yeasts, and our gi tract to body length ratio is half as long as obligate herbivores but much more like pigs which are true omnivores.
 
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Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Humans are animals and animals have different gastric ph and acidity depending on the species. Some obligate carnivores have much stronger acids than others (hyena is stronger than grizzly, for example).
You’re claiming that gastric pH levels do not coincide with the type of diet an animal eats? Cite your evidence.

Ability to store vitamin A coincides with the type of diet an animal eats. Correct?

Name all the biological adaptations you know of that distinguish humans from other apes, by which to conclude that humans are "true omnivores".

Whereas some herbivores also have specific organ and flora mechanisms we don't have to destroy plant toxins and/or break down tougher plant cells. Our stomachs are capable of handling both to more limited extents, just like most omnivores. It's worth pointing out that humans are **** at breaking down cellulose like obligate herbivores
So your argument here can be stated as a simple modus tollens deduction: If (P) humans are herbivores, then (Q) humans would harbor cellulolytic gut bacteria by which to digest a significant portion of consumed cellulose. Not Q. Therefore not P.

That argument is unsound; the facts lead to just the opposite conclusion. It has long been known that humans commonly harbor cellulolytic gut bacteria by which most cellulose is digested. This is a 1984 paper:

Ample evidence for breakdown of cellulose in man has been acquired by non-isotopic techniques and has been reviewed elsewhere.9 Balance studies in humans where intake of dietary cellulose and faecal excretion have been measured and the source of cellulose was commonly eaten foods, such as fruit and vegetables and refined cereals, cellulose digestibility was of the order of 70-80%.5​

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1432575/pdf/gut00393-0005.pdf

This from 1988:

ABSTRACT The fibrolytic microbiota of the human large intestine was examined to determine the numbers and types of cellulolytic and hemicellulolytic bacteria present. Fecal samples from each of five individuals contained bacteria capable of degrading the hydrated cellulose in spinach and in wheat straw pretreated with alkaline hydrogen peroxide (AHP-WS), whereas degradation of the relatively crystalline cellulose in Whatman no. 1 filter paper (PMC) was detected for only one of the five samples. The mean concentration of cellulolytic bacteria, estimated with AHP-WS as a substrate, was 1.2 X 10(8)/ml of feces. Pure cultures of bacteria isolated on AHP-WS were able to degrade PMC, indicating that interactions with other microbes were primarily responsible for previous low success rates in detecting fecal cellulolytic bacteria with PMC as a substrate. The cellulolytic bacteria included Ruminococcus spp., Clostridium sp., and two unidentified strains. The mean concentration of hemicellulolytic bacteria, estimated with larchwood xylan as a substrate, was 1.8 X 10(10)/ml of feces. The hemicellulose-degrading bacteria included Butyrivibrio sp., Clostridium sp., Bacteroides sp., and two unidentified strains, as well as four of the five cellulolytic strains. This work demonstrates that many humans harbor intestinal cellulolytic bacteria and that a hydrated cellulose source such as AHP-WS is necessary for their consistent detection and isolation.​

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...nd_hemicellulolytic_bacteria_from_human_feces


can't handle a lot of common plant based toxins like a lot of obligate herbivores
Cit your evidence.

can't manufacture vitamin b12 in high enough quantity to not need animal supplementation or cultivated through modern bred yeasts
And you're claiming that humans' inability to "manufacture vitamin B12 in high enough quantity" distinguishes humans from herbivorous mammals? I mean, really?

No fungi, plants, nor animals (including humans) are capable of producing vitamin B12. Only bacteria and archaea have the enzymes needed for its synthesis. Some plant foods are a natural source of B12 because of bacterial symbiosis.​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12
 

ScottySatan

Well-Known Member
Following up:

I quoted Revoltingest above because he's right, food should unite us, and has an ancient tradition of doing that. It's offensive to reject someone's food, especially if they procured and cooked it. And the meat eaters are correct, they are being judged. Just not, in my experience, judged openly.

Also, I mention meat carters. I don't know what a meat carter is and no longer remember what word I meant to say.
 

Ana.J

Active Member
Omg... i thought it was a joke...and now they will still say that eating meat does not make you aggressive :cool:
 

MountainPine

Deuteronomy 30:16
Not trying to be a dick, or to troll, but it bothers me when vegetarians address animal cruelty if they simultaneously consume dairy and eggs. Animals in the dairy and egg industries suffer just as much as they do in the meat industries, such as stealing new-born calves away from their mothers, and forcing malnourished and stressed hens to lay eggs in cramped and filthy cages. The hypocrisy gets under my skin. If you're not completely vegan, then you have no business addressing animal cruelty.
 
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