Men and women. Friends or foes?

[JustGeorge]

To sum it up: do women and men understand each other's perspective in the 21st century?
Or are there conflicts arising because of the anthropological and cultural differences deriving from their own gender?

"Do men and women understand each other...."

Men aren't a uniform group to be understood, nor are women. You might understand Ryan, but be confused by Jayden, and totally get Sara but have no clue what in the world Ellen is talking about.

People are people.

 

[Stevicus]

I think politics lately exploits the gender studies in the United States, particularly. I have been noting that the cultural and anthropological distance between the male gender and the female one has widened consistently. And constantly. Since the nineties, I guess. Since the Clinton-Lewinski case.

In Europe there has never been really such a thing, probably because there's much more sexual liberation. There are no really taboos...so men and women share many more secrets. Or don't have secrets with each other.
Maybe in the US the society is much more conservative and still has so many taboos.

What do you think?
Is there really a distance that make men and women less and less allies?

I've always gotten the impression that the U.S. is generally more religiously conservative than they are in Europe. One difference I've observed over the years is that, when it comes to movies and TV, the U.S. is less permissive than Europe when it comes to showing sex, but more permissive when it comes to showing violence. I guess moviemakers want Americans to make war, not love.

Of course, I don't know that it means that men and women are enemies. I think talk of gender divides are somewhat exaggerated, although I have seen some indications out there. One example is that Gillette commercial that came out a few years ago, in which the topic of "toxic masculinity" was addressed. Many of the men who didn't consider themselves toxic took umbrage at being lumped in with the bad ones, and the men who are toxic don't really care what anyone thinks of them anyway.

 

[Stevicus]

I have heard that in the US there is this idiom Nice guys finish last.

Yes, I've heard that phrase used, although I've heard it more often in the context of business and getting ahead. It's a nod to social Darwinism. Those who are nice tend to be viewed as doormats, a mentality which enables bullying, which leads to the toxic, violent culture which many are complaining about these days.

 

[Quintessence]

To sum it up: do women and men understand each other's perspective in the 21st century?

Okay, I can parse that.

As has been mentioned, males, females, and the intersexed people you left out of the discussion for some reason are not some sort of monolithic categories. The ability for some particular human to understand some other particular human doesn't seem to have much if anything to do with their reproductive organs/hormones (or lack thereof). Come to think of it, there is very little about the human condition that is specific to males, females, or intersexed individuals. And if having (or not having) some particular (inter)sex characteristics is that big of a barrier to social interaction, er... one really, really needs to work on one's social skills, frankly.

 

[Estro Felino]

"Do men and women understand each other...."

Men aren't a uniform group to be understood, nor are women. You might understand Ryan, but be confused by Jayden, and totally get Sara but have no clue what in the world Ellen is talking about.

People are people.

What I meant is: do men perceive women as enemies or friends?
do women perceive men as enemies or friends?

I think that in the US the culture tends to portray all men as dangerous and potential rapists.
And that accentuates the hatred and the distance between the two sexes.

In Europe...I have never heard of such a thing. Men are perceived as companions and complementary.

 

[Estro Felino]

I've always gotten the impression that the U.S. is generally more religiously conservative than they are in Europe. One difference I've observed over the years is that, when it comes to movies and TV, the U.S. is less permissive than Europe when it comes to showing sex, but more permissive when it comes to showing violence. I guess moviemakers want Americans to make war, not love.

Of course, I don't know that it means that men and women are enemies. I think talk of gender divides are somewhat exaggerated, although I have seen some indications out there. One example is that Gillette commercial that came out a few years ago, in which the topic of "toxic masculinity" was addressed. Many of the men who didn't consider themselves toxic took umbrage at being lumped in with the bad ones, and the men who are toxic don't really care what anyone thinks of them anyway.

Exactly. You only need to look at the evolution of commercials: in the nineties there was this ad where a group of women can't wait to watch a shirtless mason in a building site, That is light years away from the Gillette commercial...that would perceive men as violent and potential rapists.

Or in Italy...the ads are about casual romantic encounters between men and women...like this ad

So...yes...in the US.. in the 21st century, .they do anything to teach women that men are all pigs and potential rapists.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you are selective in the choice of a partner, you will avoid rapists.

Disgusting.

What I meant is: do men perceive women as enemies or friends?
do women perceive men as enemies or friends?

Generally men and women are friendly towards eachother.

 

[Estro Felino]

Generally men and women are friendly towards eachother.

Generally...of course...
but I am noting that the society and the media in the US tend to portray men as all potential rapists and dangerous. And this widens the distance and the incomprehension between the two sexes.

Which is something light years away from Europe. There are no such generalizations and rapists are a very tiny percentage.

 

[Father Heathen]

What I meant is: do men perceive women as enemies or friends?
do women perceive men as enemies or friends?

Did you not even read the post you're replying to? It answers this.

I think that in the US the culture tends to portray all men as dangerous and potential rapists.
And that accentuates the hatred and the distance between the two sexes.

Again, this stupid notion was already dispelled by prior posts.

In Europe...I have never heard of such a thing.

In America I have never heard of such a thing because you made it up.

Why should people waste their time answering your questions if you're determined to ignore and disregard their responses anyway?

 

[Father Heathen]

Generally...of course...
but I am noting that the society and the media in the US tend to portray men as all potential rapists and dangerous. And this widens the distance and the incomprehension between the two sexes.

Which is something light years away from Europe. There are no such generalizations and rapists are a very tiny percentage.

By society and media you mean your imagination, right?

 

[Estro Felino]

Did you not even read the post you're replying to? It answers this.


Again, this stupid notion was already dispelled by prior posts.

Nobody has disproved my claim...yet
Quite the opposite.

The Gillette commercial of some years ago speaks volumes and says I am right.

 

[Estro Felino]

By society and media you mean your imagination, right?

It's not a recent phenomenon.
It started in the nineties, where people started to be outraged by Bill Clinton having an affair with a female intern.
And many called Clinton a rapist and an abuser...

Even if we all know it was consensual. And they were two consenting adults.

So...yes...in the United States there is a cultural problem and I am saddened by the fact you don't perceive it.

 

[Father Heathen]

the Gillette commercial...that would perceive men as violent and potential rapists.

Link it.

 

[Estro Felino]

Link it.

This. It's preceded by a 1989 commercial

 

[Shadow Wolf]

but I am noting that the society and the media in the US tend to portray men as all potential rapists and dangerous.

We've been over this. Whatever you're being exposed to has given you a very distorted, warped amd craptastically wrong view of America.
For starters, you have to realize America is so big and diverse that there are significant cultural differences among the different regions like the West Coast, the South, MidWest and New England. Such as, you're more likely to hear of sexual things and see scantily clad women in California than in Indiana. Seriously, here I've seen some women dressed in public (typically at club or bar) that make what you show from Italy look conservative and prudish.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This. It's preceded by a 1989 commercial

No, that's calling out toxic, destructive masculinity and modeling a postive, secure and healthy masculinity.

 

[Father Heathen]

Nobody has disproved my claim...yet
Quite the opposite.

That's called willful ignorance, which deserves nothing but contempt.

The Gillette commercial of some years ago speaks volumes and says I am right.

How is anybody supposed to know wtf you're even babbling about? Undoubtedly it's something you're once again distorting or misrepresenting.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

@Estro Felino
I'll put it this way, I can tell you where to go, that aren't strip clubs, where there'll probably be at least a few women where you'll see everything but her cooter and nipples.

 

[Estro Felino]

@Estro Felino
I'll put it this way, I can tell you where to go, that aren't strip clubs, where there'll probably be at least a few women where you'll see everything but her cooter and nipples.

What does it have to do with toxic masculinity?

 

[Estro Felino]

We've been over this. Whatever you're being exposed to has given you a very distorted, warped amd craptastically wrong view of America.
For starters, you have to realize America is so big and diverse that there are significant cultural differences among the different regions like the West Coast, the South, MidWest and New England. Such as, you're more likely to hear of sexual things and see scantily clad women in California than in Indiana. Seriously, here I've seen some women dressed in public (typically at club or bar) that make what you show from Italy look conservative and prudish.

What does that have to do with American women considering all men potential rapists?