men living beyond 200 years, fiction? or bad interpretation?

[outhouse]

The oldest documented age at present is that of Antisa Khvichava at 130 years of age.

thank you

but not verfied

Antisa Khvichava (Georgian: ანტისა ხვიჩავ&#4304 (Claimed born 8 July 1880[1]) is a Georgian woman who claims to be 130 years old, which, if other similar claims are false, would make her the oldest person of all time. Her passport is given as evidence.
Khvichava lives in the Caucasus Mountains with her grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Her claimed birth date is 8 July 1880.[2][3] Her claimed age has not been independently verified. L. Stephen Coles, a co-founder of The Gerontology Research Group, noted that her claim would mean she gave birth to a son at the age of 60.[4] Also, in Georgia, birth and death registrations are handled by local authorities rather than the central government, and residents will sometimes either withhold or give false information in order to secure government benefits earlier than normal. Given this, it is likely that her birth records were either misrecorded or falsified.[5]

 

[outhouse]

NO WHERE IS THERE ANYONE LIVING PAST 150 LET ALONE 200.

Longevity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Population longevities are increasing as life expectancies around the world grow:[1][2]

• Spain: 79.08 years in 2002, 81.07 years in 2010
• Australia: 80 years in 2002, 81.72 years in 2010
• Italy: 79.25 years in 2002, 80.33 years in 2010
• France: 79.05 years in 2002, 81.09 years in 2010
• Germany: 77.78 years in 2002, 79.41 years in 2010
• UK: 77.99 years in 2002, 79.92 years in 2010
• USA: 77.4 years in 2002, 78.24 years in 2010

Long-lived individuals

The Gerontology Research Group validates current longevity records by modern standards, and maintains a list of supercentenarians; many other unvalidated longevity claims exist. Record-holding individuals include:

• Jeanne Calment (1875–1997, 122 years, 164 days): the oldest person in history whose age has been verified by modern documentation. This defines the modern human life span, which is set by the oldest documented individual who ever lived.
• Shigechiyo Izumi (1865–1986, 120 years, 237 days, disputed): the second oldest human ever recognized by the Guinness Book of World Records; this is questioned by some scholars, who believe that conflation of dates or names has compromised the authenticity of Izumi's age.

Longevity and lifestyle
Evidence-based studies indicate that longevity is based on two major factors, genetics and lifestyle choices.[3] Twin studies,[4] have estimated that approximately 20-30% of an individual’s lifespan is related to genetics, the rest is due to individual behaviors and environmental factors which can be modified. Study of the regions of the world known as blue zones,[5] where people commonly live active lives past 100 years of age, have shown that longevity is related to a healthy social and family life, not smoking, eating a plant-based diet, frequent consumption of legumes and nuts, and engaging in regular physical activity. In another well-designed cohort study,[6] the combination of a plant based diet, frequent consumption of nuts, regular physical activity, normal BMI, and not smoking accounted for differences up to 10 years in life expectancy. The Alameda County Study [7] discovered three additional lifestyle characteristics that promote longevity: limiting alcohol consumption, sleeping 7 to 8 hours per night, and not snacking (eating between meals).


please stop with your pesonal fantasy, the bible fable of old age is a myth

 

[ninerbuff]

You are correct that not all countries have lifespans in their 70s. What the research in mice shows is that a mice on a caloric restriced with optimal nutrition(cron) or intermittent fasting(if) diet can live up to what translates to 160 years old in humans. This however is just cron or "if" alone and does not include supplements like bcaa,oligofructose,creatine, etc. which have been shown to increase lifespan as well. So it is possible to increase lifespan beyond 160 in human years if cron, supplements, epigenetics, etc. are combined.

Im guessing you arent 100% familiar with how caloric restriction with optimal nutrition(cron) works. To begin with it is normally around a 30% reduction in calories in most of the mice studies. Some studies go as high as a 50% reduction but this is rare. Anything higher than a 50% reduction in calories has shown to actually reduce lifespan not increase it.

So the elderly people who are eating less than 1000 calories would actually fall into the more than 50% reduction category. Im guessing you are a personal trainer(i have a nasm cert.) so you are aware of what the u.s.d.a suggests is a normal calorie range. Also unless you have been eating a cron diet since an early age you will need more calories in order for your body to get enough energy. The younger you start cron diet the more efficient your body is at using calories for fuel. So an elderly person who did not start a cron diet early in life would need more calories than an elderly person who did. Either way every person on a properly formed cron diet eats an average of more than1000 calories a day. Also most of the conditions you described are reduced in mice and even on humans in cron studies.

Women who are extremely underweight are usually also undernourished(nutrient deficits). Women who are long distance runners usually have hormonal changes. Women in general who are on cron diets have no nutrient deficits and dont have the same hormonal changes as long distance runners. As i mentioned earlier the main reproductive changes with a cron diet are later puberty and earlier menopause, also while pregnant the females obviously must increase their calories just like normal females would.

While I will agree with some of your info, I must emphatically disagree with human lifespan on calorie restricted diets. Again while with mice the research shows promise, there haven't been human tests to verify that if implemented the same results would occur.
And yes I'm a Personal Trainer who has been in the Fitness Industry for over 28 years now.

 

[iholdit]

While I will agree with some of your info, I must emphatically disagree with human lifespan on calorie restricted diets. Again while with mice the research shows promise, there haven't been human tests to verify that if implemented the same results would occur.
And yes I'm a Personal Trainer who has been in the Fitness Industry for over 28 years now.

There have been human studies which show the same types of effects that occured in various cron animals also occur in cron humans. Caloric restriction was only discovered(in modern times at least) in the 1930s. So even if a human started a cron diet in 1930 they still wouldnt have reached 120 years old yet forget about 150+.

I am not saying humans will definitely have longer lifespans on cron diets and i have not said that in this thread or ever. What i am saying is that it is possible for humans on a cron diet to have the same types of increased lifespan as mice and they could possibly live to 160 years old if they follow the cron diet in exactly the same way as the mice studies have shown.

It is also possible that a 160 year lifespan could be exceeded if epigenetics and supplements etc. were also combined with cron. Unlike outhouse i am not nor have i said any of this is a "fact". I am saying it is just a possibility.

 

[iholdit]

thank you

but not verfied

Antisa Khvichava (Georgian: ?????? ???????) (Claimed born 8 July 1880[1]) is a Georgian woman who claims to be 130 years old, which, if other similar claims are false, would make her the oldest person of all time. Her passport is given as evidence.
Khvichava lives in the Caucasus Mountains with her grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Her claimed birth date is 8 July 1880.[2][3] Her claimed age has not been independently verified. L. Stephen Coles, a co-founder of The Gerontology Research Group, noted that her claim would mean she gave birth to a son at the age of 60.[4] Also, in Georgia, birth and death registrations are handled by local authorities rather than the central government, and residents will sometimes either withhold or give false information in order to secure government benefits earlier than normal. Given this, it is likely that her birth records were either misrecorded or falsified.[5]

I guess wikipedia is the only source you believe lol. The georgia government stands by her claim.

But it wouldnt matter what evidence existed, any piece of paper can be forged, any person can lie etc. It would be pretty much impossible to prove someone lived to 130, but it would also be pretty much impossible to prove they didnt. Which is why you saying you know for a fact nobody has lived to 130 is unscientific.

 

[outhouse]

your are so far out in fantasy land your not worth a decent debate

her records are not verfied

it is likely that her birth records were either misrecorded or falsified

 

[outhouse]

Refute this then

NO WHERE IS THERE ANYONE LIVING PAST 150 LET ALONE 200.

Longevity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Population longevities are increasing as life expectancies around the world grow:[1][2]

• Spain: 79.08 years in 2002, 81.07 years in 2010
• Australia: 80 years in 2002, 81.72 years in 2010
• Italy: 79.25 years in 2002, 80.33 years in 2010
• France: 79.05 years in 2002, 81.09 years in 2010
• Germany: 77.78 years in 2002, 79.41 years in 2010
• UK: 77.99 years in 2002, 79.92 years in 2010
• USA: 77.4 years in 2002, 78.24 years in 2010

Long-lived individuals

The Gerontology Research Group validates current longevity records by modern standards, and maintains a list of supercentenarians; many other unvalidated longevity claims exist. Record-holding individuals include:

• Jeanne Calment (1875–1997, 122 years, 164 days): the oldest person in history whose age has been verified by modern documentation. This defines the modern human life span, which is set by the oldest documented individual who ever lived.
• Shigechiyo Izumi (1865–1986, 120 years, 237 days, disputed): the second oldest human ever recognized by the Guinness Book of World Records; this is questioned by some scholars, who believe that conflation of dates or names has compromised the authenticity of Izumi's age.

Longevity and lifestyle
Evidence-based studies indicate that longevity is based on two major factors, genetics and lifestyle choices.[3] Twin studies,[4] have estimated that approximately 20-30% of an individual’s lifespan is related to genetics, the rest is due to individual behaviors and environmental factors which can be modified. Study of the regions of the world known as blue zones,[5] where people commonly live active lives past 100 years of age, have shown that longevity is related to a healthy social and family life, not smoking, eating a plant-based diet, frequent consumption of legumes and nuts, and engaging in regular physical activity. In another well-designed cohort study,[6] the combination of a plant based diet, frequent consumption of nuts, regular physical activity, normal BMI, and not smoking accounted for differences up to 10 years in life expectancy. The Alameda County Study [7] discovered three additional lifestyle characteristics that promote longevity: limiting alcohol consumption, sleeping 7 to 8 hours per night, and not snacking (eating between meals).


please stop with your pesonal fantasy, the bible fable of old age is a myth

 

[iholdit]

your are so far out in fantasy land your not worth a decent debate

her records are not verfied

Thats one persons opinion and did you read what is says. "likely". Unlike you they wont say they know for a fact nobody has lived to 130 years old. So you need to provide evidence that it is impossible for her to have lived to 130 in order for you to to be able to say you know for a fact she isnt 130 years old. Do you understand mr. fantasy land president?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I Hold It why do you wish to take a book that is obviously full of fables and myths that only serve any real relevance to us if they're metaphors and literalize it into history and facts?

 

[iholdit]

I Hold It why do you wish to take a book that is obviously full of fables and myths that only serve any real relevance to us if they're metaphors and literalize it into history and facts?

Why do you want to take a book that tells us not to plant invasive plants and genetically modified plants and tells us to practice good sanitation and to not overeat etc. and did this before modern science knew these things would cause problems and turn it into a book of only metaphors. Clearly the bible has a metaphorical meaning but it also seems to have a literal meaning in most cases as well.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Why do you want to take a book that tells us not to plant invasive plants and genetically modified plants and tells us to practice good sanitation and to not overeat etc. and did this before modern science knew these things would cause problems and turn it into a book of only metaphors. Clearly the bible has a metaphorical meaning but it also seems to have a literal meaning in most cases as well.

I hold it the Egyptians, Greeks, and Babylonians told us thing modern science tells us too. Do you also believe they were inspired? I doubt it. I'll just quote Thomas Paine here and then shut up.

"When we are told that Samson ran off with the gate posts of Gaza, if indeed he ever did, and rather he did or not is nothing to us, or rather he caught his foxes, and his dealings with Delilah, none of this means anything to us. However, when we consider the greatness and transcendence of the Lord of the universe, we ought to feel shame at calling such paltry stories the word of God"- Thomas Paine

 

[Breathe]

Sometimes, iholdit, but other times I don't see them having a literal meaning.

And then there are just some strange laws in the Bible, like "do not wear clothes of two different kinds of fibre". What's up with that?

 

[iholdit]

Sometimes, iholdit, but other times I don't see them having a literal meaning.

And then there are just some strange laws in the Bible, like "do not wear clothes of two different kinds of fibre". What's up with that?

It isnt always literal and sometimes the bible actually says it is being metaphorical in certain passages and even explains the metaphor such as in some of jesus parables. But most often it has a literal and metaphoric meaning at the same time.

The literal meaning of mixing 2 different kinds of fiber together has to do with the 2 main types of fiber that existed at the time which were flax and wool. If you mix the 2 there is the potential for them to catch fire as you move in a garment of those mixed fabrics. It also serves as a warning not to mix things in general, that passage is in lev 19:19. I have discussed this in another thread about "What Does The Torah, Bible and Quran Say About Genetic Engineering?"
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...r/110003-what-does-torah-bible-quran-say.html

Lev 19:19 also talks about mixing different kinds of cattle together and mixing plants in the same field. This is to keep hybrids(and geo and gmo) from killing off the original plants, cattle etc. Here is a link that shows a hybrid of Tennessee coneflower and the purple coneflower could pose a significant risk if it encroaches on the historical range of the Tennessee coneflower.
A Growing Risk? Endangered Plants For Sale Online : NPR

This shows a literal interpretation to protect ourselves and the environment. However the same verses also have a metaphorical meaning as well. Cain brought plants as an offering(flax) and able brought cattle(wool) as an offering. So it is telling us not to mix good with evil. The not letting different cattle breed together has to do with jacob(good) seperating his cattle from laban(bad). This goes on in the new testament of seperating the wheat and tares etc.

So the verse you mentioned has both literal and metaphoric meanings.

 

[iholdit]

I hold it the Egyptians, Greeks, and Babylonians told us thing modern science tells us too. Do you also believe they were inspired? I doubt it. I'll just quote Thomas Paine here and then shut up.

"When we are told that Samson ran off with the gate posts of Gaza, if indeed he ever did, and rather he did or not is nothing to us, or rather he caught his foxes, and his dealings with Delilah, none of this means anything to us. However, when we consider the greatness and transcendence of the Lord of the universe, we ought to feel shame at calling such paltry stories the word of God"- Thomas Paine

I believe some of Egyptians, Greeks, and Babylonians writings would be literal as well. You were basically trying to say, or at least i think you were trying to say the bible is all metaphorical and that is what i am disagreeing with.

 

[iholdit]

While I will agree with some of your info, I must emphatically disagree with human lifespan on calorie restricted diets. Again while with mice the research shows promise, there haven't been human tests to verify that if implemented the same results would occur.
And yes I'm a Personal Trainer who has been in the Fitness Industry for over 28 years now.

I promised you studies that show many of the same effects in humans on cron diets that are found in mice on cron diets who had extended lifespans. Sorry i didnt get a chance yesterday but here are some studies. There are many more if you are interested.
Looking For The Founatain Of Youth? Cut Your Calories, Research Suggests
Thinner And Younger: Calorie Restriction Reduces Markers Of Aging
How Eating Less Might Make You Live Longer
Effects of long-term calorie restriction and endur... [Age (Dordr). 2010] - PubMed result

 

[Breathe]

Wait, you think the Bible talks about genetically modified foods and hybrid animals, from "do not wear clothes of two fibres"?

And how do you know what Cain and Abel brought as sacrifices? Or are you just guessing? The Bible isn't exactly clear on what they provided.

 

[iholdit]

Wait, you think the Bible talks about genetically modified foods and hybrid animals, from "do not wear clothes of two fibres"?

And how do you know what Cain and Abel brought as sacrifices? Or are you just guessing? The Bible isn't exactly clear on what they provided.

Lev 19:19 is the verse i am referring to. It has 3 sentences in that verse and i will paraphrase them. Dont breed different kinds of cattle together. Dont plant fields with different kinds of seeds together. Dont mix different fabrics together.

That is all one verse. The genetically engineered part has to with the first sentence of dont breed different kinds of cattle together. The hybrid part is the first and second sentence of dont breed different kinds of cattle and dont plant fields with different kinds of seeds which could lead to hybrids forming.

What cain and able offered is the metaphor part of the dont mix fibers verse. Cain brought plants that is in scripture it isnt specific what plants but remember we are talking metaphorical now. Able brought cattle again it is not specific but we are talking metaphor. So metaphorically mixing plants(flax) together with cattle(wool) into one fabric would symbolise mixing good and evil together.

 

[ninerbuff]

I promised you studies that show many of the same effects in humans on cron diets that are found in mice on cron diets who had extended lifespans. Sorry i didnt get a chance yesterday but here are some studies. There are many more if you are interested.
Looking For The Founatain Of Youth? Cut Your Calories, Research Suggests
Thinner And Younger: Calorie Restriction Reduces Markers Of Aging
How Eating Less Might Make You Live Longer
Effects of long-term calorie restriction and endur... [Age (Dordr). 2010] - PubMed result

Knowing the effects of calorie restriction (since I competed as a bodybuilder in my earlier years) the research you posted doesn't address issues of hormone reactions of testosterone and estrogen as well as the effect on lean muscle tissue (except a short sentence on the last one where it did state lower circulating testosterone). If taken to a low enough, lack of calories will affect metabolism (which does affect the aging process) and lower testosterone which for males can have an affect on the heart. There's more to it when calorie restriction is implemented, but I don' t have time to locate the research. I'll post it later.

 

[outhouse]

man never lived longer then they do now, go derail someone elases thread because your personal fantasy is off topic here.

man never lived to the ages posted in the bible.

you live in a fantasy land that does not apply to reality.

your studies only say "if" "maybe" "might" and have no proof of getting you over 120. ONLY getting you to that area.

genesis is a fable and even the writers want it to be read allegorically

 

[iholdit]

Knowing the effects of calorie restriction (since I competed as a bodybuilder in my earlier years) the research you posted doesn't address issues of hormone reactions of testosterone and estrogen as well as the effect on lean muscle tissue (except a short sentence on the last one where it did state lower circulating testosterone). If taken to a low enough, lack of calories will affect metabolism (which does affect the aging process) and lower testosterone which for males can have an affect on the heart. There's more to it when calorie restriction is implemented, but I don' t have time to locate the research. I'll post it later.

Remember we are not just talking about caloric restriction but we are talking about caloric restriction with optimal nutrition so there is no nutrient deficits. Also the caloric restriction we are talking about is about a 30% reduction in most studies.

That being said i look forward to reading the studies you post. Im glad to actual discuss this from a scientific standpoint and not just having to deal with someone telling me they "know for a fact" it cant happen. I appreciate you being scientific about this.