Men's Issues/Masculism DIR

[freethinker44]

It makes sense to me also because it's the mother that's been carrying the thing around for 9 months and giving birth to it, it's kind of unfair for her to give it up to the father right away, who let's face it did jack all compared to the mother.

Sounds like you are advocating discriminating against men based solely on their biology. Because I don't have a vagina I should be automatically excluded, is that it?

 

[Me Myself]

Sounds like you are advocating discriminating against men based solely on their biology. Because I don't have a vagina I should be automatically excluded, is that it?

Not the place for it.

 

[Rakhel]

No it isn't. (We can do this all night contradicting back and forth, but I suggest a bottle of merlot to go with it)

Rashi is better, but that's just me.

How about all the people who don't identify as feminists? There are women who don't either. Why think that only male non-feminists who need you as their spokesperson?

did you think that maybe they don't want to be identified as feminist is because they don't want to get in the middle of a "He said, She said" argument?

I think the Feminist Only forum has links to free e-readings of Stanton and a few of First Wave writers. That's cool that you've read some of her work and appreciate it.

I saw a few. Then went to Archive and Gutenberg which have more. Thinking Library of Congress may have a number as well.

I'm offering an opportunity to learn about feminism and it's history to those who really want to learn. Approaching feminists with a chip on one's shoulder tends to get an earful from me, though, and especially when the position is from willful ignorance and personal bias.

and when one approaches a chip, it is usually with a chip they feel is larger than the one they are looking at, when in reality the two are the same size.

You really think he speaks for all of feminism? Or you think he speaks for me? Rick and I have our disagreements, and I respect him for all his curmudgeonly wonderful self. But he doesn't speak for me. Take it up with him.

You asked. I answered.
He appears to be a proud card carrying member of the Feminist community and has apparently taken it upon himself to express what he appears to feel that the community feels.

Any talk, no. But maybe it isn't the sarcasm that ticked you off. Maybe you're ticked off because you think I and anybody else you see as feminists don't care about men or men's issues here at RF.

Again making assumptions that don't apply.
I told you what ticked me off and you keep changing the wording to make it more appeasing to your understanding of what is truly going one.

I will ask the question just for clarification...do you see feminists generally as man-haters? If you do, it's no wonder why you reacted the way you do.

Honestly, I do see some as man-hating. I have met a few. Mostly in lesbian clubs(yes I have been to a few). I have also met some male man-haters in gay establishments. High school friends, adult friends. My mother, a second wave, hated men in general. She wasn't a Radical feminist but a feminist, none the less.
Am I saying that all feminists are man-haters. That would be a silly assumption of mine. About as silly as yours for attempting to theorize why I reacted the way I did or do.

Hey look....If you felt my quote of your post was an attack, then I should point out that's a clear indicator there's more to the story of what you're seeing that is simply not there. I quoted your post to show that questions regarding the necessity of a Masculist Only forum are being bred from a reactionary position to feminism, and not entirely due to simply wanting to discuss male rights and protections.

If you feel I have misrepresented your position by not seeing feminism as the enemy, by all means correct me. But if I have stated that your position is that feminism is causing a lot of problems, are a bunch of man-haters, and don't care about men and their concerns, then I don't think you can legitimately say that my quote of your post concerning radical feminism and how it might hurt the male psyche is an attack.

You misrepresented my quote by assuming it was an attack on feminism.

You could have looked at it in more ways than the one you jumped to. One of which being that it immediately set ground rules for what could and could not be discussed in such a forum. The other as a simple, and innocent question concerning the male ego and radical feminism.

There are men on this forum who probably wouldn't feel comfortable(some have stated as much) asking a question about male issues in a feminist DIR that they are not allowed to post in unless they submit(yes submit) to the demands that they identify as feminist(look to Alceste if you have questions)
"oh but they can post in that forum until they are kicked out"
Seriously?
They can post until they get kicked out? How ******* kind of the...whoever makes the rules.

And yes. I have been reading your post about supporting a male issue DIR but only so far a "whatever"
The things that have been said in this thread alone against a male- issue DIR makes my skin crawl and my head scream SEXIST.

 

[Me Myself]

I think green would be a nice color.

If we ever make a thread about it, that is.

 

[Revoltingest]

Also found the claim of RF sanctioned matriarchy hilarious. How many of the staff are female in comparison to male? How often are they even present when decisions are made?

But they're girly men!
(Matriarchy will do that to the weaker ones.)

I like the small emerging consensus for green. Specialized forums have one real feature I like...when searching for a post, I can often remember which forum it was in, thereby narrowing my search. This is very useful, while exclusivity is of dubious value.

 

[dust1n]

But they're girly men!
(Matriarchy will do that to the weaker ones.)

The matriarchy had to exist first in order to do anything to anyone.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The same request was made of the feminist forum, and was received with scorn, ridicule, and rage. Does that mean if we made the male issue forum green it would be more "equality embracing" than the feminist one?


Before a storm of feminist rage descends, the last sentence is a joke if you didn't get it.

lol...nup. Nothing to do with it.
Green means I can post, purple means I can't...at least, not without breaking the rules.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Rashi is better, but that's just me.



did you think that maybe they don't want to be identified as feminist is because they don't want to get in the middle of a "He said, She said" argument?


I saw a few. Then went to Archive and Gutenberg which have more. Thinking Library of Congress may have a number as well.

and when one approaches a chip, it is usually with a chip they feel is larger than the one they are looking at, when in reality the two are the same size.



You asked. I answered.
He appears to be a proud card carrying member of the Feminist community and has apparently taken it upon himself to express what he appears to feel that the community feels.



Again making assumptions that don't apply.
I told you what ticked me off and you keep changing the wording to make it more appeasing to your understanding of what is truly going one.
Honestly, I do see some as man-hating. I have met a few. Mostly in lesbian clubs(yes I have been to a few). I have also met some male man-haters in gay establishments. High school friends, adult friends. My mother, a second wave, hated men in general. She wasn't a Radical feminist but a feminist, none the less.
Am I saying that all feminists are man-haters. That would be a silly assumption of mine. About as silly as yours for attempting to theorize why I reacted the way I did or do.



You misrepresented my quote by assuming it was an attack on feminism.

You could have looked at it in more ways than the one you jumped to. One of which being that it immediately set ground rules for what could and could not be discussed in such a forum. The other as a simple, and innocent question concerning the male ego and radical feminism.

There are men on this forum who probably wouldn't feel comfortable(some have stated as much) asking a question about male issues in a feminist DIR that they are not allowed to post in unless they submit(yes submit) to the demands that they identify as feminist(look to Alceste if you have questions)
"oh but they can post in that forum until they are kicked out"
Seriously?
They can post until they get kicked out? How ******* kind of the...whoever makes the rules.

All right. These are fair points. And if you're up for a bottle of Rashi, I'm in.

And yes. I have been reading your post about supporting a male issue DIR but only so far a "whatever"
The things that have been said in this thread alone against a male- issue DIR makes my skin crawl and my head scream SEXIST.

That's unfortunate. I do support a Masculist Only forum and have stated it repeatedly. I'm unsure about identifying with it, but it doesn't suggest any loss of respect for those who do identify with it. I probably would not post in it if the definition or qualifier for participating in it assumes we have strong matriarchal elements - I just don't agree with that assumption - but I wouldn't see that as a slight against me.

 

[Revoltingest]

It looks like everyone is friends again!
Woo hoo! And do I smell sammiches?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

It looks like everyone is friends again!
Woo hoo! And do I smell sammiches?

Very funny.

 

[Me Myself]

It looks like everyone is friends again!
Woo hoo! And do I smell sammiches?

*Passes a suspiciously carrot smelling "bacon" sammich*

 

[Revoltingest]

Very funny.

Geeze, you have a lotta frubies!

 

[Alceste]

Oh c'mon. There's a reason for that if you study history

I do study history, and no there isn't.

 

[Alceste]

It doesn't have anything to do with it, it's just a question mate. I like to know who I'm talking to, particularly if they're male or female because it influences the way I interact with them on the forum, you know what I'm saying?

Why??

 

[Alceste]

If this thread was an identifiable section of my brain, I'd shoot it.

Heck, I haven't even voted yet. I was waiting to see what kind of DIR it would most likely be. I think I'm nearing a decision.

 

[Alceste]

Also found the claim of RF sanctioned matriarchy hilarious. How many of the staff are female in comparison to male? How often are they even present when decisions are made?

Maybe she subscribes to the belief that when men have moderately progressive opinions, they're basically women.

 

[Quagmire]

Also found the claim of RF sanctioned matriarchy hilarious. How many of the staff are female in comparison to male? How often are they even present when decisions are made?

Well, out of 11 admins and admin emeritus, only three are female.

Then again, since the rest of us are scared to death of them. . .

 

[Alceste]

Rashi is better, but that's just me.



did you think that maybe they don't want to be identified as feminist is because they don't want to get in the middle of a "He said, She said" argument?


I saw a few. Then went to Archive and Gutenberg which have more. Thinking Library of Congress may have a number as well.

and when one approaches a chip, it is usually with a chip they feel is larger than the one they are looking at, when in reality the two are the same size.



You asked. I answered.
He appears to be a proud card carrying member of the Feminist community and has apparently taken it upon himself to express what he appears to feel that the community feels.



Again making assumptions that don't apply.
I told you what ticked me off and you keep changing the wording to make it more appeasing to your understanding of what is truly going one.
Honestly, I do see some as man-hating. I have met a few. Mostly in lesbian clubs(yes I have been to a few). I have also met some male man-haters in gay establishments. High school friends, adult friends. My mother, a second wave, hated men in general. She wasn't a Radical feminist but a feminist, none the less.
Am I saying that all feminists are man-haters. That would be a silly assumption of mine. About as silly as yours for attempting to theorize why I reacted the way I did or do.



You misrepresented my quote by assuming it was an attack on feminism.

You could have looked at it in more ways than the one you jumped to. One of which being that it immediately set ground rules for what could and could not be discussed in such a forum. The other as a simple, and innocent question concerning the male ego and radical feminism.

There are men on this forum who probably wouldn't feel comfortable(some have stated as much) asking a question about male issues in a feminist DIR that they are not allowed to post in unless they submit(yes submit) to the demands that they identify as feminist(look to Alceste if you have questions)
"oh but they can post in that forum until they are kicked out"
Seriously?
They can post until they get kicked out? How ******* kind of the...whoever makes the rules.

And yes. I have been reading your post about supporting a male issue DIR but only so far a "whatever"
The things that have been said in this thread alone against a male- issue DIR makes my skin crawl and my head scream SEXIST.

I'm not "demanding" anything. If you're not a feminist, why would on earth would you even want to participate in a feminist only section of the forum? Do you want me to barge into the Judaism DIR and start opining on the trouble with Judaism? Wouldn't that be kind of tedious for the participating members, given that I know absolutely nothing about Judaism?

I don't "demand" that people adopt arbitrary labels to gain admission to a DIR. I request that people respect the spirit of the whole DIR concept. Do you want the Judaism DIR to be filled up with endless, hostile debates about Palestine and Israel's right to exist? No? Well I don't want our feminist DIR stunk up with endless, hostile debates like this one, which basically boil down to "Are those angry, man-hating feminists out of control these days, and how can we fight back?"

If you browse the DIR itself, you may find that the difference is refreshing.

 

[Kerr]

I gotta say, it occurred to me this morning that I actually view everything that ISN'T a feminist DIR as basically a "masculinist DIR". This is, after all, a patriarchal society. It's like when I go to the book store. There's a "history" section that is absolutely huge and entirely focused on the achievements of men. Then, any history by or about women is packed into a much, much smaller "women's studies" section (one shelf right at the bottom, half filled, nowhere near the history section). The history books there are mixed together with feminist philosophical work and even some fiction.

I have noticed that. Read about half of the books in a "womans history section" which talked about how woman have influenced our history and how they had it in ancient cultures. Was very interesting... but most history books where about men.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I'm not a "Masculinist" whatever that actually is, but I would imagine most Masculinists recognize the world is a Patriarchy, and since Patriarchy can negatively affect Men too (think Gender Roles etc) I'd bet they're essentially on the same side as the Feminists, just looking at it through a Male lens instead of a Female one.

Wow it's funny how you are the only one to answer the question and you're not even a masculinist! I guess there isn't actually any masculinists on RF. So like, why was this thread made again?:sleep: