The problem is you accept everyhing as "fact" said by media. You choose to believe your own theories and I choose to believe my own. You want to believe "religion is responsible for crimes", I want to believe "its not". The brother of murdered woman said that she was not mentally ill and their father fabricated such a story to prevent the people's anger toward the family. The brother also said that there is no evidence that she burned Quran. We will trust whom ? Media ? or the brother ? Which one is conspiracy ?
I've noticed a recent trend of people being particularly difficult to agree with here. Almost as if they have drawn up sides, and seem determined to put all respondents as either with them or against them. Strange.
Anyway, not sure I made any particular comment about religion causing anything. What I said was that there would be delusional people around with religion-based delusions. This has nothing to do with the media. I went further, and said that this is not indicative of anything about the religion. I made NO comment about the men who killed her.
You might want to stick to what I've said next time you decide I'm 'on the other side'.
Do you have a source for the story you're quoting?
A crime is a crime and killing a person without any judgement isn't allowed by any religion.
Evil exists in every bad soul and they use whatever reason to do awful and disgusting things, i may classify them as hypocrites and atheists, the hypocrites are those evils who use religion as a tool for their inner evil soul and they're more worse than the atheist who may have inner evil soul but not claiming belonging to any religion.
Jesus warned the believers about the hypocrites who are in reality are evil atheists claiming to be religious figures whereas they're barbarians and monsters. but that doesn't mean that all atheists are evil ones but the hypocrites are.
Matthew 22:18
But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?
Matthew 23:15
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
Matthew 23:25
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
Matthew 23:27
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.
Mark 7:6
He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
Luke 13:15
The Lord answered him, “You hypocrites! Doesn’t each of you on the Sabbath untie your ox or donkey from the stall and lead it out to give it water?
I never said that they were acting according to Islam or any other religion. I said they used it as an excuse. You can't just brush away heinous acts by people who claim to be part of your faith by saying oh well everyone does it. Yes yes they do. So what? Stand against the ******** and throw scripture back at them, if you must. I'll gladly stand by your side. But this whole mental gymnastics to elude the fact that these hypocrites were able to use a Holy Book (don't care which one) to justify this atrocity just looks like you're trying to dodge something. Just a perspective, mate. Take it or leave it.
This happened on Thursday.
"KABUL, Afghanistan — The mentally ill woman, her face covered in blood, rose to her feet and looked out across the mob. She pleaded. But these men meant to kill her.
A kick sent her tumbling backward. In the courtyard of one of Kabul’s most famous shrines, men hurled stones at her and struck her with wooden planks.
When she was dead, they tied her body to a car and drove to the Kabul River. On the garbage-strewn bank, they burned her corpse.
Her name was Farkhunda, and, for most of her 27 years, her parents had searched for help in treating the mental illness that had plagued her since girlhood.
None of that mattered to the mob. To them, she stood accused of a vile and sacrilegious act: burning pages from the Quran.
Kabul has been riveted since her death Thursday afternoon. Cellphone videos of the killing have been circulating widely, appalling some but drawing approval from others.
“If I had been there, I would have burned her, too,” said a man who on Friday had come to see the place along the riverbank where Farkhunda’s body was burned the day before.
But a hatmaker who had watched the mob from his shop condemned the attack as inhuman.
“What they did is brutal and completely against Islam,” said the hatmaker, Sayed Habib Saadat. What left him feeling especially worried, he added, was how many of the attackers were teenagers or young men in their 20s.
The divergent responses trace Afghanistan’s struggle between its commitment to conservative Islam and the Western notions of individual rights and due process that have been slow to take hold over the past decade.
On Friday, as the police arrested nine men believed to have been part of the mob, an official in the Ministry of Religious Affairs said the attack on Farkhunda might have been justified if she actually did what she was accused of."
Rest of article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/21/w...hing-in-afghanistan-but-some-support-too.html
As a show of protest and solidarity with the young lady who had her life so horrifically ended, an Afghani ex-Muslim burned a Qur'an:
If you feel that a book is worth more than a human life, then you are not worshiping God. You're just evil. As a Christian, you could destroy all the Bibles you want or say whatever nasty things about Jesus you want and make offensive images, but I'll never want to hurt you because of it. God doesn't need us to defend Him. How devilish does your idea of religion have to be in order to think that the Creator and Ruler of the universe wants you to act in such ways?!
Truer words were never spoken. I'm not sure where the entitlement comes from that some Muslims feel authorized to "defend the name of their prophet" with violence. No one has the right to do this in the name of their religion. It is disgusting, shameful, and just about as evil as it gets.
The title correction: Mentally ill woman been killed by mentally ills.
Also I never believed and will never believe that these kind of events occurs spontaneously. Why would someone comes in front of a Mosque and burns a Quran. Thought provoking.
She was mentally ill. That is why there is no reasonable explanation. People with mental disorders do irrational things all the time. That's the problem. She was not responsible for her actions, but the mob didn't care.
At least these idiots murdered one person, still better than deliberately shooting at schools by drones and murdering children on the pretext of fight against Taliban
What does that have to do with this incident? It's funny, it seems like when a lot of these stories are discussed here, your reaction is usually, "well, the western world does bad things too." Can't you at least agree that this was an unjustified, barbaric example of extremism?
And maybe to say, evil lives only where muslims exist.
Islam never said kill those who burn or tear the quran, evil exists everywhere, so whatever silly and dishonest excuses then the truth remains that the purpose of this story is just to attack Islam itself and not the disgusting story as comparing the story of a father killing his baby child for his evil sexual drive is more disgusting than any story that i can even imagine, but lets search and bring for discussion any evil acts that Muslims may do and never mind about the evil that happening everywhere else.
What do you expect them to do? Just ignore this story? It's horrible, and the world needs to know what's going on in countries where law is based on and carried out by Islamic Extremists. If you kill someone for religious reasons, you are a terrorist. Simple as that. Doesn't matter if you kill someone of the same religion as yourself, you are nothing more than a psychopathic criminal. The world needs to realize how big of a problem these kinds of things actually are.
This happened on Thursday.
"KABUL, Afghanistan — The mentally ill woman, her face covered in blood, rose to her feet and looked out across the mob. She pleaded. But these men meant to kill her.
A kick sent her tumbling backward. In the courtyard of one of Kabul’s most famous shrines, men hurled stones at her and struck her with wooden planks.
When she was dead, they tied her body to a car and drove to the Kabul River. On the garbage-strewn bank, they burned her corpse.
Her name was Farkhunda, and, for most of her 27 years, her parents had searched for help in treating the mental illness that had plagued her since girlhood.
None of that mattered to the mob. To them, she stood accused of a vile and sacrilegious act: burning pages from the Quran.
Kabul has been riveted since her death Thursday afternoon. Cellphone videos of the killing have been circulating widely, appalling some but drawing approval from others.
“If I had been there, I would have burned her, too,” said a man who on Friday had come to see the place along the riverbank where Farkhunda’s body was burned the day before.
But a hatmaker who had watched the mob from his shop condemned the attack as inhuman.
“What they did is brutal and completely against Islam,” said the hatmaker, Sayed Habib Saadat. What left him feeling especially worried, he added, was how many of the attackers were teenagers or young men in their 20s.
The divergent responses trace Afghanistan’s struggle between its commitment to conservative Islam and the Western notions of individual rights and due process that have been slow to take hold over the past decade.
On Friday, as the police arrested nine men believed to have been part of the mob, an official in the Ministry of Religious Affairs said the attack on Farkhunda might have been justified if she actually did what she was accused of."
Rest of article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/21/w...hing-in-afghanistan-but-some-support-too.html
As a show of protest and solidarity with the young lady who had her life so horrifically ended, an Afghani ex-Muslim burned a Qur'an:
If you feel that a book is worth more than a human life, then you are not worshiping God. You're just evil. As a Christian, you could destroy all the Bibles you want or say whatever nasty things about Jesus you want and make offensive images, but I'll never want to hurt you because of it. God doesn't need us to defend Him. How devilish does your idea of religion have to be in order to think that the Creator and Ruler of the universe wants you to act in such ways?!
This happened on Thursday.
"KABUL, Afghanistan — The mentally ill woman, her face covered in blood, rose to her feet and looked out across the mob. She pleaded. But these men meant to kill her.
A kick sent her tumbling backward. In the courtyard of one of Kabul’s most famous shrines, men hurled stones at her and struck her with wooden planks.
When she was dead, they tied her body to a car and drove to the Kabul River. On the garbage-strewn bank, they burned her corpse.
Her name was Farkhunda, and, for most of her 27 years, her parents had searched for help in treating the mental illness that had plagued her since girlhood.
None of that mattered to the mob. To them, she stood accused of a vile and sacrilegious act: burning pages from the Quran.
Kabul has been riveted since her death Thursday afternoon. Cellphone videos of the killing have been circulating widely, appalling some but drawing approval from others.
“If I had been there, I would have burned her, too,” said a man who on Friday had come to see the place along the riverbank where Farkhunda’s body was burned the day before.
But a hatmaker who had watched the mob from his shop condemned the attack as inhuman.
“What they did is brutal and completely against Islam,” said the hatmaker, Sayed Habib Saadat. What left him feeling especially worried, he added, was how many of the attackers were teenagers or young men in their 20s.
The divergent responses trace Afghanistan’s struggle between its commitment to conservative Islam and the Western notions of individual rights and due process that have been slow to take hold over the past decade.
On Friday, as the police arrested nine men believed to have been part of the mob, an official in the Ministry of Religious Affairs said the attack on Farkhunda might have been justified if she actually did what she was accused of."
Rest of article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/21/w...hing-in-afghanistan-but-some-support-too.html
As a show of protest and solidarity with the young lady who had her life so horrifically ended, an Afghani ex-Muslim burned a Qur'an:
If you feel that a book is worth more than a human life, then you are not worshiping God. You're just evil. As a Christian, you could destroy all the Bibles you want or say whatever nasty things about Jesus you want and make offensive images, but I'll never want to hurt you because of it. God doesn't need us to defend Him. How devilish does your idea of religion have to be in order to think that the Creator and Ruler of the universe wants you to act in such ways?!
It is starting to look like this women never even burned Quran pages. It was just a lie perpetrated by a local Imam, trying to save his own job by hurling false accusations. See below:
Farkhunda's parents said the killing was instigated by a local mullah of the Shah-e-Do Shamshera Mosque in the city's center, who had been angered by Farkhunda's accusations that he was distributing false tawiz.
Tawiz are pieces of paper containing verses of the Quran which are sometimes worn as pendants to ward off evil and bring the wearer good luck.
TOLOnews reported that "in order to save his job and life," the mullah reportedly began shouting accusations that Farkhunda had burned the Quran.
Witnesses said a crowd gathered and hauled Farkhunda into the street.
"We were asking the people to stop beating her and let us ask what religion she belongs to," one witness told TOLOnews. "But the people didn't listen to us and kept beating her."
Afghanistan's Ministry of Hajj and Religious Affairs said it had found no evidence Farkhunda burned the Quran. Meanwhile, Afghan President Ashraf Ghani condemned the killing as "heinous" and ordered a commission to investigate it fully.
Farkhunda's father said those guilty of killing his daughter should face justice: "I don't want blood of my daughter go in vain."
Police suspended
Thirteen police officials have been suspended in connection with the attack, according to Interior Ministry spokesman Sediq Seddiqi. He earlier confirmed 11 people had been arrested.
"We're very interested particularly to see what happens in terms of the investigation of the police behavior," said Patricia Grossman, Afghanistan researcher for Human Rights Watch.
"That was, for us, one of the most troubling aspects of this case -- that the police did not intervene adequately and properly to save her when there was an opportunity to do so."
Buried by women
On Sunday, as they watched Farkhunda's casket being carried to her grave, the crowd shouted "Kabul police officials should be fired," according to Afghan human rights activist Ramin Anwari.
Government officials, ministers, journalists and civil society members were among the thousands of people who attended her funeral, Anwari said. Many of them are expected to attend a large rally planned for Tuesday outside Afghanistan's Supreme Court in Kabul to call for justice for Farkhunda, he said. A Facebook page has been created in support of the cause.
On Friday, the United Nations issued a statement condemning the killing "in the strongest terms."
"We are encouraged by initial reports of the arrest of several suspects, but call on the authorities to investigate this incident fully and bring to justice all persons who actively participated in the killing, or aided and abetted it," said Elzira Sagynbaeva, the representative in Afghanistan for UN Women. She said the rise in cases of violence against women and girls in Afghanistan had become a "major concern" and must not be tolerated.
Grossman of Human Rights Watch said the attack was unusual because it took place in public and in the capital. However, she added,"Violence against women is rampant in Afghanistan. That's the kind of thing we'd like to see people address beyond this particular case."
... in the middle of a post saying that the purpose of the story was to attack Islam.
That said, at least he did say it was wrong, so I can give him credit for that. Better say a little bit than say nothing at all (which is the case for certain other posters here).
... in the middle of a post saying that the purpose of the story was to attack Islam.
That said, at least he did say it was wrong, so I can give him credit for that. Better say a little bit than say nothing at all (which is the case for certain other posters here).
A "little bit"?
That's a pretty grudging acknowledgment.
Perhaps many Muslims don't decry the murder because it's so obviously wrong that it needn't be stated.
I think you owe Muslims more benefit of the doubt than you give.
I never said that they were acting according to Islam or any other religion. I said they used it as an excuse. You can't just brush away heinous acts by people who claim to be part of your faith by saying oh well everyone does it. Yes yes they do. So what? Stand against the ******** and throw scripture back at them, if you must. I'll gladly stand by your side. But this whole mental gymnastics to elude the fact that these hypocrites were able to use a Holy Book (don't care which one) to justify this atrocity just looks like you're trying to dodge something. Just a perspective, mate. Take it or leave it.
What i say is that evil is evil regardless of what shape it takes.
It can be for money, for sex or for religion and all are disgusting, so why only crimes done by the name of religion is disgusting and leaving many other disgusting ones that is happening every day and everywhere.
If we want to discuss such cases of crimes one thread for each crime, then i can daily author 100 threads of disgusting crimes happening all around the world.
My opinion that this thread is a silly one and some may find it interesting similar to the way that roaches find the sink interesting, so stay in it discussing one single crime that rarely happening.
A "little bit"?
That's a pretty grudging acknowledgment.
Perhaps many Muslims don't decry the murder because it's so obviously wrong that it needn't be stated.
I think you owe Muslims more benefit of the doubt than you give.
I make it a point to clarify which subset of people I'm talking about when discussing any given group. In this case, I'm not talking about all Muslims, which I think should be obvious from my posts.
And it does need to be stated. If so many Muslims felt the need to state their disapproval of satirical cartoons, then a crime like this should be clearly denounced as well. The disproportionate reactions speak volumes—far more than a lot of people are willing to acknowledge.
What i say is that evil is evil regardless of what shape it takes.
It can be for money, for sex or for religion and all are disgusting, so why only crimes done by the name of religion is disgusting and leaving many other disgusting ones that is happening every day and everywhere.
If we want to discuss such cases of crimes one thread for each crime, then i can daily author 100 threads of disgusting crimes happening all around the world.
My opinion that this thread is a silly one and some may find it interesting similar to the way that roaches find the sink interesting, so stay in it discussing one single crime that rarely happening.
I think it's that things like money kind of are expected to cause evil. Desperation makes people do crazy things. But evil done in the name of religious beliefs seems so irrational and inexcusable because it's so subjective. Plus this is a religious forum.
What do you expect them to do? Just ignore this story? It's horrible, and the world needs to know what's going on in countries where law is based on and carried out by Islamic Extremists. If you kill someone for religious reasons, you are a terrorist. Simple as that. Doesn't matter if you kill someone of the same religion as yourself, you are nothing more than a psychopathic criminal. The world needs to realize how big of a problem these kinds of things actually are.
I expect them to discuss every and each single crime happening in daily basis and to assign one thread for each case, you don't see it as stupid but i see it a waste of time and a stupid thread.
What to discuss in this thread, Islam and crimes or crazy men and crimes, what you want to discuss so we can see what kind of crimes happening and which religion supports it other than atheism.
I expect them to discuss every and each single crime happening in daily basis and to assign one thread for each case, you don't see it as stupid but i see it a waste of time and a stupid thread.
What to discuss in this thread, Islam and crimes or crazy men and crimes, what you want to discuss so we can see what kind of crimes happening and which religion supports it other than atheism.
This is a religious forum, so it should be expected that only crimes associated with religious beliefs would be discussed. So, I'm not sure what surprises you about this.
Further, Atheism cannot "support" anything. That would be a logical fallacy. Specific atheists can certainly support terrible things, but atheism is far too general to be responsible in and of itself.
It is not a system of beliefs or religious doctrine, it is merely a lack of belief in a deity.
I think it's that things like money kind of are expected to cause evil. Desperation makes people do crazy things. But evil done in the name of religious beliefs seems so irrational and inexcusable because it's so subjective. Plus this is a religious forum.
Only if you can point to a direct correlation between their reasoning for committing the crime and their lack of belief in a deity. Then I think it would certainly be appropriate. I just have not seen too many occurances like this recently, but I would certainly be happy to discuss if you could substantially argue that a crime committed by an atheists was done as a direct result of their lack of belief in a deity.
I make it a point to clarify which subset of people I'm talking about when discussing any given group. In this case, I'm not talking about all Muslims, which I think should be obvious from my posts.
And it does need to be stated. If so many Muslims felt the need to state their disapproval of satirical cartoons, then a crime like this should be clearly denounced as well. The disproportionate reactions speak volumes—far more than a lot of people are willing to acknowledge.
I'm no fan of Islam (to say the least), but Muslims are all individuals, each with a personal interpretation of scripture.
It's only fair to treat them as such.
If someone defends the murder, then that person deserves scorn.
But to go after the silent ones, & even lump in the critics who don't defend her as much as you'd like....that's unfair.
I suspect that you're still in your rebellion phase, having rejected Islam only recently. This will pass. At my advanced age, I've long since shed my animosity towards religion. (I know what you're thinking....."doddering", "curmudgeonly".) Perhaps this neutrality enables greater clarity. Listen to your elders, sonny.
I'm no fan of Islam (to say the least), but Muslims are all individuals, each with a personal interpretation of scripture.
It's only fair to treat them as such.
If someone defends the murder, then that person deserves scorn.
But to go after the silent ones, & even lump in the critics who don't defend her as much as you'd like....that's unfair.
I qualify each statement of mine to specify which group I'm talking about. Re-read my posts if you think I don't do that.
I suspect that you're still in your rebellion phase, having rejected Islam only recently. This will pass. At my advanced age, I've long since shed my animosity towards religion. (I know what you're thinking....."doddering", "curmudgeonly".) Perhaps this neutrality enables greater clarity. Listen to your elders, sonny.
Wrong. I have Muslim family and friends, and I used to go to mosques in Saudi Arabia for meditation sessions (yes, I used the ultra-fundamentalist imams there as subjects of meditation more than once). "Rebellion phase" implies bitterness, which I find unnecessary and harmful to me more than anyone else. I'm pointing out trends that I have noticed both while online and while living among Muslims and personally talking to them. I view it as necessary to discuss those trends if any change is to take place in the Muslim world, especially the Middle East.
This is a religious forum, so it should be expected that only crimes associated with religious beliefs would be discussed. So, I'm not sure what surprises you about this.
Further, Atheism cannot "support" anything. That would be a logical fallacy. Specific atheists can certainly support terrible things, but atheism is far too general to be responsible in and of itself.
It is not a system of beliefs or religious doctrine, it is merely a lack of belief in a deity.
Religion isn't just a belief in a deity, but it's a whole system of life.
I may find many cases where atheists raped their daughters and then i may bring it here to discuss their lack of any religion, i know it's stupid and that's what happening here in this thread.
Islam has nothing to do with this crime, so what to discuss here.
