Mentally ill Afghani woman brutally beaten and burnt to death for allegedly burning Qur'an.

[Revoltingest]

Religion isn't just a belief in a deity, but it's a whole system of life.

I may find many cases where atheists raped their daughters and then i may bring it here to discuss their lack of any religion, i know it's stupid and that's what happening here in this thread.

Islam has nothing to do with this crime, so what to discuss here.

I'd say that Islam is related to the crime, but the cause is culture & some malefactors within it.
We have many Muslims in SE MI, & nothing like this ever happens here.

 

[leibowde84]

Religion isn't just a belief in a deity, but it's a whole system of life.

I may find many cases where atheists raped their daughters and then i may bring it here to discuss their lack of any religion, i know it's stupid and that's what happening here in this thread.

Islam has nothing to do with this crime, so what to discuss here.

Right, religious beliefs are far more complicated than atheism. This is because atheism is merely a lack of belief in a deity, while religious beliefs usually include far more than just believing that a certain God exists. And, if you put up a story saying that an atheist man raped his daughter and blamed his lack of belief in a deity on this behavior, it would be ludicrous. That is, unless you could provide some objective evidence as to why you feel there might be a correlation. I think that would be an impossibility, but I would definitely be open to discussing it.

As for this incident, whether you like it or not, this woman was killed because the crowd thought that she burned the Quran, which seems not to be the case at this point. This is certainly related to Islam because the Quran is not held as "sacred" to any other religion than Islam. Also, the men committed this crime because they felt that Islam was insulted figuratively. While I agree that these men were following rules that don't seem to be an accurate interpretation of Islam, it cannot be said that they did not have the teachings of Islam in mind (at least their own interpretations). On the contrary, you might be able to create a line of reasoning that leads you to believe that an atheist's actions were caused by their lack of belief, it would not be direct, because the atheist would, most likely, not use his atheism as an excuse. This is what we have a major problem with in this thread. Islam is used as an excuse or reason for violence by the criminals themselves, which is unacceptable in many ways.

 

[FearGod]

I'd say that Islam is related to the crime, but the cause is culture & some malefactors within it.
We have many Muslims in SE MI, & nothing like this ever happens here.

Thats why i don't see what to discuss here, people's stupidity in Afghanistan or what.

 

[leibowde84]

Thats why i don't see what to discuss here, people's stupidity in Afghanistan or what.

I would say that the Islamic community needs to speak out against the idea that violence is justified when done as punishment for insulting Muhammad or burning the Quran. I think that should be a no brainer and, since it has yet to be done in that part of the world, it is worth discussing until it is. Would you not agree with this?

 

[Revoltingest]

Thats why i don't see what to discuss here, people's stupidity in Afghanistan or what.

Many see this travesty as symptomatic of Islam.
The best way to defend Islam is to not defend it at all.
(People leap at the chance to focus upon that as apologetics.)
To merely decry the murder takes the wind from their sails.

 

[FearGod]

Right, religious beliefs are far more complicated than atheism. This is because atheism is merely a lack of belief in a deity, while religious beliefs usually include far more than just believing that a certain God exists. And, if you put up a story saying that an atheist man raped his daughter and blamed his lack of belief in a deity on this behavior, it would be ludicrous. That is, unless you could provide some objective evidence as to why you feel there might be a correlation. I think that would be an impossibility, but I would definitely be open to discussing it.

As for this incident, whether you like it or not, this woman was killed because the crowd thought that she burned the Quran, which seems not to be the case at this point. This is certainly related to Islam because the Quran is not held as "sacred" to any other religion than Islam. Also, the men committed this crime because they felt that Islam was insulted figuratively. While I agree that these men were following rules that don't seem to be an accurate interpretation of Islam, it cannot be said that they did not have the teachings of Islam in mind (at least their own interpretations). On the contrary, you might be able to create a line of reasoning that leads you to believe that an atheist's actions were caused by their lack of belief, it would not be direct, because the atheist would, most likely, not use his atheism as an excuse. This is what we have a major problem with in this thread. Islam is used as an excuse or reason for violence by the criminals themselves, which is unacceptable in many ways.

So what to discuss here in this thread from your POV.

 

[leibowde84]

So what to discuss here in this thread from your POV.

The idea that violence is an appropriate response to insulting Muhammad or burning the Quran must be discussed so it can be ridiculed and, hopefully, eradicated. I agree that it is a misinterpretation of Islam to think that any kind of violence would be an appropriate response to these kinds of things, but it seems to be a common sentiment in that part of the world. This misinterpretation is not going to go away unless it is discussed. That is why I think it is warranted on this site. A religious debate forum is the best place to have this discussion.

 

[FearGod]

I would say that the Islamic community needs to speak out against the idea that violence is justified when done as punishment for insulting Muhammad or burning the Quran. I think that should be a no brainer and, since it has yet to be done in that part of the world, it is worth discussing until it is. Would you not agree with this?

And who said to you that we don't, we also teach not to insult any religion or their prophets, we don't agree with many religions but that doesn't mean that we have to mock their religion by drawings or videos..etc, we see it as a stupid and a childish act done by some atheists and the best thing is to neglect them and their stupid works as if they did nothing other than showing their stupidity and jealousy, some Muslims are as stupid as the ones busy in inventing those drawings and react by violence which most of us don't agree with.

 

[FearGod]

The idea that violence is an appropriate response to insulting Muhammad or burning the Quran must be discussed so it can be ridiculed and, hopefully, eradicated. I agree that it is a misinterpretation of Islam to think that any kind of violence would be an appropriate response to these kinds of things, but it seems to be a common sentiment in that part of the world. This misinterpretation is not going to go away unless it is discussed. That is why I think it is warranted on this site. A religious debate forum is the best place to have this discussion.

But that case is rarely happening, then why to be discussed as if a big issue, tell me how many similar accidents that happened in the year 2014 so we can agree and think of it as a great issue which is greater than any crimes which happen in daily basis.

 

[leibowde84]

And who said to you that we don't, we also teach not to insult any religion or their prophets, we don't agree with many religions but that doesn't mean that we have to mock their religion by drawings or videos..etc, we see it as a stupid and a childish act done by some atheists and the best thing is to neglect them and their stupid works as if they did nothing other than showing their stupidity and jealousy, some Muslims are as stupid as the ones busy in inventing those drawings and react by violence which most of us don't agree with.

Fair enough I guess. I would suggest not showing animosity towards atheists if you expect them to not show animosity towards Islam, but that is beside the point. I think your reaction of just ignoring them is the best thing to do. There will always be people trying to get a rise out of the religious. But, the problem is when the Islamic community focus on the insults rather than the murders, which deserve a lot more attention. While cartoons might hurt people's feelings, death is permanent, and violence in the name of any belief is inexcusable. I don't think there is anything wrong with criticizing Muhammad, Jesus, or any other historical figure for that matter, as long as those criticisms can be substantiated. And, when people murder as a result of these criticisms in the form of satirical cartoons, the cartoons themselves are completely taken out of focus, and the disgust is focused completely on the ones who became violent.

But, that is why I think the best thing to do is just to ignore cartoons like this and accept that they are just going to be a part of a free society. There are always haters out there, and that is not going to change. Threats of violence will only give them legitimacy.

 

[leibowde84]

But that case is rarely happening, then why to be discussed as if a big issue, tell me how many similar accidents that happened in the year 2014 so we can agree and think of it as a great issue which is greater than any crimes which happen in daily basis.

Again, since this is a religious forum, it would only be fair to compare crimes done in the name of other religions. I would say that there have been countless riots/protests where people got hurt. The burning of the Qurans by the US Military caused some violence. The CH cartoons caused violent riots. The Anti-Islamic film made by that idiot in the US that caused an uproar all over the middle-east caused violent outbreaks. Just to name a few.

There are also other crimes being perpetrated in the name of other religions. But, it seems like this specific problem (violence as retribution for insults or burning of Islamic texts) is definitely more wide-spread. But, maybe I am wrong. Is there another religion where adherents are causing more violence than this epidemic that I am not aware of ... meaning that they are directly using their religious beliefs as an excuse for violence?

 

[leibowde84]

And who said to you that we don't, we also teach not to insult any religion or their prophets, we don't agree with many religions but that doesn't mean that we have to mock their religion by drawings or videos..etc, we see it as a stupid and a childish act done by some atheists and the best thing is to neglect them and their stupid works as if they did nothing other than showing their stupidity and jealousy, some Muslims are as stupid as the ones busy in inventing those drawings and react by violence which most of us don't agree with.

My point is that these insults aren't going to end. They are just part of living in a free society. Nothing is off limits to criticism. I would teach my kids the same thing that you teach your kids. But, since there are always going to be bad parents out there, we need to make sure that people don't overreact and give the haters legitimacy by becoming violent.

 

[FearGod]

My point is that these insults aren't going to end. They are just part of living in a free society. Nothing is off limits to criticism. I would teach my kids the same thing that you teach your kids. But, since there are always going to be bad parents out there, we need to make sure that people don't overreact and give the haters legitimacy by becoming violent.

Some people won't listen and will still react in a stupid way, don't you think that world war 1 & 2 caused by stupid men.

 

[leibowde84]

Some people won't listen and will still react in a stupid way, don't you think that world war 1 & 2 caused by stupid men.

WWII in particular was the result of very smart, but horrendously evil men who used an already present feeling of anti-semitism to carry out their unspeakable plan to eradicate an entire population. And, the whole world had to join forces and do things that normally would be morally questionable in order to stop the German War Machine from destroying the world.

I think the same is necessary for this problem. The world, both Muslims and non-muslim, must join hands to ridicule all that think it permissible to use violence as a reaction to words/cartoons so that those that do react in this way feel excluded from the Islamic community.

In other words, the problem wouldn't be a big deal if it was just a few "bad-eggs." It seems clear that much of the Islamic world think that violence and/or destruction is a justified response to insults to their prophet or system of beliefs. Since, it can be reasonably expected that insults of this nature, just like any other prejudiced ideology, will not go away any time soon, it seems far too dangerous to just look the other way when huge populations see violence as permissible.

 

[leibowde84]

Some people won't listen and will still react in a stupid way, don't you think that world war 1 & 2 caused by stupid men.

My point is that, if what you are saying is true and stupid people will keep being violent, we need to make sure that every time violence is done for this reason, the violent are met with harsh punishment or possibly excommunicated from Islam in general.

 

[It's Ya Girl Jesus' Wife]

These men are hell bound. Plain and simple. I would burn them all if I could. Anyone who is this violent over a damn book deserves Hell Fire. What god are they serving because my Father commands us to love everyone.. The hatred in this world is astonishing... These Muslim idiots deserve to be beaten to death and burned as well. God will repay them all for what they did!

 

[FearGod]

WWII in particular was the result of very smart, but horrendously evil men who used an already present feeling of anti-semitism to carry out their unspeakable plan to eradicate an entire population. And, the whole world had to join forces and do things that normally would be morally questionable in order to stop the German War Machine from destroying the world.

I think the same is necessary for this problem. The world, both Muslims and non-muslim, must join hands to ridicule all that think it permissible to use violence as a reaction to words/cartoons so that those that do react in this way feel excluded from the Islamic community.

In other words, the problem wouldn't be a big deal if it was just a few "bad-eggs." It seems clear that much of the Islamic world think that violence and/or destruction is a justified response to insults to their prophet or system of beliefs. Since, it can be reasonably expected that insults of this nature, just like any other prejudiced ideology, will not go away any time soon, it seems far too dangerous to just look the other way when huge populations see violence as permissible.

So we need world war III to eradicate the majority of them, but US and its allies fought them in Afghanistan for more than 10 years and they're becoming even stronger than ever before that the peaceful Islamic world are suffering now from the increasing of violence and if the ISIS grow further then it'll control the Muslim world which will lead then to a disaster not for Muslims only but for the whole world.

 

[leibowde84]

So we need world war III to eradicate the majority of them, but US and its allies fought them in Afghanistan for more than 10 years and they're becoming even stronger than ever before that the peaceful Islamic world are suffering now from the increasing of violence and if the ISIS grow further then it'll control the Muslim world which will lead then to a disaster not for Muslims only but for the whole world.

We need a new strategy. I think the Islamic world needs to fight extremism with the idea that murder is unjustifiable no matter what.

 

[Pastek]

As a show of protest and solidarity with the young lady who had her life so horrifically ended, an Afghani ex-Muslim burned a Qur'an

Only some of the anti-Islam and anti-religion must be happy. This thing achieve nothing but adding fire to fire.
There's nothing peaceful or wise about that.
Like if a muslim will say "well done !" after seeing that...

Just read some of the comments on Youtube: some of these Muslim commenters obviously value a book more than Human life.

Youtube is full of racists and dumb comments.

 

[Valjean]

Alas, this isn't a Muslim thing, but seems to be human Nature.
How bizarre is it that people are so much more concerned with symbols than the actual principles symbolized. People will eagerly violate the principles and edicts symbolized in an effort to demonstrate support for the symbol.

What's up with that?