Merciful God?? I think not.

[Runewolf1973]

Sorry, I guess I kind of contradict myself. In my opening post I stated that I did not believe in a "God". Well, that is true. I don't believe that "God" is a specific deity. To me, "God" is "animation" or "anima", "spirit" in other words. Energy itself has "animation" which means that it is constantly in motion, constantly changing form. Energy is "animate", all the way down to it's smallest forms of protons and neutrons and the like, and likely much smaller than scientists might ever know. To me there really is no such thing as "creation", only "animation". Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only change form. That is how I perceive "God." "God" can neither be created nor destroyed, only change form. Anima is another word for "soul", "life", "movement", or "vigor". Everything that has energy (essentially everything that exists) is "animate" or has "motion" or vigor" and therefore has "soul" or "life". It is "alive" in a sense. That is what I consider to be "God".... Living Spirit Energy.

This is why the earliest of cultures were what could be called "Animists". They understood that everything had some kind of "living", "animating" force behind it. Even rocks had this "spirit". In a sense, they were right. Everything that existed was "alive" with constantly moving and changing energy. This energy affected all things around them in ways they could not quite understand. This led them to believe that whatever it was was "supernatural". It also led to the rise of the belief in gods and demons. Whatever it was, they understood that this "spirit" (energy) could not be destroyed and existed even after death.

Bet you never thought of it in that way before..... Like I said previously, there is no such thing as the "supernatural". ALL is natural. It is all just a matter of how we perceive it. This is just my opinion though. You decide.

 

[Renji]

You know something that I've found that is interesting? Even the belief that christians abhor the most because it goes against all christian beliefs...Satanism, has truth to be found in it. Why don't you give the Satanic Bible a read once? I'll lend it to you. Satanists don't even believe that the Devil is real. They are athiests. They believe in respecting nature. They are against religious conformity because they believe that religion causes people to stop thinking for themselves. They believe it is good for the individual to question things and find their own answers. It's the Hollywood movies and typical religious ignorance that falsely makes Satanists out to be so "evil". The very same ignorance that was present during the Crusades and the Witch Trials. Their beliefs hold as much truth and validity as any other belief does.

Are you talking about the satanic bible that Anton La Vey wrote? Can you share me some of the "truths" found in it? I have conducted some research on this topic(satanism and satanists) for the past few years. I've red several philosophies/beliefs from satanists but I guess leaning does not end there.

 

[Linda777]

Thank you for the question. It is interesting. Personally I would tell him to just "Shoot me", "Take the money and just shoot me if that is what you wish to do." I can give up my life and my money, but I can never surrender my soul to someone who points a gun at my face. Money is different than love. You can't steal love out of someone. Besides, I love ALL things. Why would "God" try to steal something which "God" already has? I DO love Jesus and you're Christian God, but I also love that part of "God" which is in ALL things and ALL beliefs. God has MANY faces. "God" is like a tree with many branches which reach out in all different directions. You choose to worship only one of those branches, I choose to accept ALL of them. "God" is the WHOLE tree including the roots which reach into the darkness below. But even from that darkness is where the nourishment is gained. We too must look into the darkness and find out what good is to be gained from knowing it. It is in the darkness where we are able to see the light. So long as you are afraid to seek the truth in ALL things, you will never understand "God" for ALL of what "God" is. You will always be blinded by that fear. ALL you must do is to open your heart to ALL of what "God" is and YOU will see "God" to. Sometimes we all need to "step out on a limb". That is faith.

But wait; you don't know if he has a gun, he just says he does. Now your answer is you would call his bluff? No. You're saying you would believe him and immediately submit to death?
How do you know he isn't lying? Anyone who robs more than likely also lies.
How would you determine the lie from truth?
The truth would save you.
You would simply submit and actually tell him to shoot you and in doing so you would retain your soul? How is your soul retained in dealing with confusion?
The truth is somewhere in the situation but how do you determine its location?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

It is my understanding that christians view "God" as omnipotent. If this is true and "God" is omnipotent, it would mean that "God" would have to be everywhere and exist in all things at all times. Is that right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Maybe some one has corrected this already but you are describing omnipresence.

My question then is.....If "God" is omnipotent and exists in all things, why then do christians accept only part of that ALL? Should they not accept ALL of what "God" is, including other beliefs, scientific facts, and philosphies. If "God" is truly omnipotent, then "God" should be ALL those things, the good and the bad, the ugly, and everything else in between. If "God" is not all those things, then "God" is not omnipotent. If a person believes in only one aspect of "God" then it is not ALL of what "God" is, only part. I believe that "God" has many faces and many expressions. It would seem christians only wish to accept part of the ALL of what "God" is.

I'd have to say that the general idea that people only accept a part of what God is to be true. Many only accept one attribute of God, for example they accept a loving God but reject His justness.

As to accepting other beliefs and science and what not, I believe your line of questioning is a bit confused.

If "God" were all-powerful, then why did He have to send "Jesus" to do things for Him? Why could "God" not just do it Himself?

Ever hear of the Trinity? Also just because you don't like the way God did it doesn't mean He is not omnipotent.

Why did "God" need to destroy so many people and creatures in biblical floods and catastrophies? The Devil was not nearly so destructive and merciless. If "God" were all-powerful, why did He not teach these people the ways of "good" instead of just letting them carry on doing bad things? Why did "God" not just put a big electric fence or force field around the tree of knowledge instead of just "teasing" Adam and Eve with it. It's like taunting a dog by holding a big juicy bone right over it's nose, then when the dog naturally grabs the bone, condemning it and the rest of it's entire species to life long pain and punishment. Why do animals still experience the pain of giving birth? What tree did they steal from to deserve the same death and punishment humans get?

"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man..." Proverbs 14:12 God's ways are not your ways.

And so it all boils down to the question....Why would I want to believe in a god that creates life then destroys it for such petty, selfish reasons? And all this to those He claims to "love" so much? I would almost rather worship the Devil. At least Satan seems more forgiving.

None of this makes any sense to me. But I'm sure "God" has His reasons for all of this. I just can't think of any good ones.

You are guilty of what you ask in the beginning. Why not accept all of what God is yet do it from a point of better understanding of Scripture.

 

[Runewolf1973]

But wait; you don't know if he has a gun, he just says he does. Now your answer is you would call his bluff? No. You're saying you would believe him and immediately submit to death?
How do you know he isn't lying? Anyone who robs more than likely also lies.
How would you determine the lie from truth?
The truth would save you.
You would simply submit and actually tell him to shoot you and in doing so you would retain your soul? How is your soul retained in dealing with confusion?
The truth is somewhere in the situation but how do you determine its location?

I don't recall saying that I would believe him that the had a gun or not, but that if he wanted to kill me, go for it. If "God" thinks that I'm so "evil" and want's me dead and gone, let Him strike me down now! GO ahead "God"! Do your will!

Well, I'm not dead yet, must have been a lie. I'll just have to wait till "God" puts all of us on His glorious firing squad. You portray "God" to be about as "merciful" as the Church was to people during the Crusades. Not much different from Hitler I don't think. Funny how the Cross became a symbol of love and the Swastika became a symbol of hate. I think they are now both symbols of hate and intolerance in their own right. The Swastika in ancient times used to be a symbol for the Spiraling Universe. Kind of like the energy of "God" in perpetual "animate" motion. What if that was originally "God's" symbol intended for us? It appears in many cultures around the world, not always in such evil context. Humans took something really beautiful and manipulated it into something evil. I don't think the Swastika was ever meant to symbolize evil.

Was not one of Hitler's ploys to convince everyone to follow him? Follow Him or die? Sounds to much like you're version of "God". Or perhaps that's really Satan which deceives you. I don't think "God" would really do that to anyone. Are you sure you are worshiping "God"? That's not the type of god I would want to bow my head down to. Most likely get it chopped off! Perhaps Hitler was just "playing" God. He did it pretty well I think.

Your "God" can kill me and destroy me and punish me and torment me all He wants, but that won't make me a follower. I follow Love and Truth, not hate. If "God" were to be even remotely like Hitler, I would never submit and be one of God's Nazis. For some odd reason, you do seem to enjoy your spreading of intolerance and ignorance towards other beliefs. Why not just "love thy enemies" instead?

I LOVE YOU in some indescribable way. I cannot possibly hate that which is part of "God". I love ALL of what "God" is. I've even grown to realize that I even love and forgive those who in my past were mean or cruel to me. I don't have to always "like" someone, or "agree" with them, but I've found that I could never truly "hate" anyone. I don't even "hate" Hitler. His mind was severely unbalanced and it made him do terrible and unfortunate things, but even inside of him, I believe there was some good. You cannot blame Hitler for being deceived by "Satan". Our minds deceive ALL of us. Some more so than others. There is some good to be found in ALL things. It is that small part that I search for in everyone. Don't always look to someones negative side. In only looking at the negative, how will you ever see the positive? LOVE is being able to accept both the good with the bad. "God" is Love. Am I wrong?

Do you think that "God" only sees what we do wrong?
How could "God" cast partial good or love into the pit of "Hell"? It just would not go. Perhaps only that part which is "evil" or "lies" which our imbalanced mind "created" is destroyed, and the rest of the "good", the "pure", and the "balanced" remains with "God". No one can ever be wholly evil. But that is just my belief. Humans "create" lies and evil. "God" is the balance and the duality in "animate" living force as ONE. The "animate" energy of ALL things. Life and Love. Simple.

 

[Luminous]

Where's the beef? Lol. Jesus said that he is the truth. If you don't believe this, there is nothing I can do about that. There is none like him. The entire world knows this. He is the One life is all about. None can deny that the world has gone after him.

exept 2/3 of the world.

So your point here is to discredit? I know all that, but you are getting technical. I thought we were talking about God himself. His nature. His word.

How dare you get technical? who ever it was that got technical.
God itself, its nature, its word. there is a reason we don't all agree, because there is no way to know for sure.

Jesus was the Word made flesh. The Word being every word that came out of the mouth of God. Every law he gave to Israel.

Sure:sarcastic, if you want to believe that.

Other religions can't offer that.

except pretty much every other religion and sect.

They are not Israel.

it think this part is obious.

Buddha or whoever didn't rise from the dead.

some people have it written that he did and does(Dali llama?).

I take it you don't believe the Bible to be God's written word?

I think it is clear to all that the Bible is (some mans)' written word. whether it mirrors God's is still up for grabs

Are you familiar with myths and where they came from? We could start there on myths. The ancients believed in gods. They are not myths, but actual historical facts.

except, NO they are not. i have no idea why you consider them a fact, But I know a Hardvard historian and historians don't. therefor its not historical fact.

I'm not concerned with what the Jews disagree with. The Old Testament was not just about shellfish. It was laws given to Israel at that time. Some applied then, some for all time.

i guess you can cherry pick "God's Word", what ever floats your boat. But who are you to chose which ones apply now and which ones don't?

Esther saved her people from destruction. The Jews had to survive for through them would come Christ. That is what Esther is all about. If the Jews had been destroyed there would be no Christ.

Why ever would that be true? God is all powerful. he could have simply empregnated some other chick. or simply matterialize Christ out of nothing, or mud, what ever floats its boat.

I see clearly your point. Would I give my children a glass of milk and a glass of poison and tell them to choose? No I would not. This tell us that God didn't do that either. We are not kinder than God.

What would you know? you are not God.

We are made in his image. What does that tell you? We have evil in our self as well as good. God creates evil even as he said in Isaiah 45:7. Calvary is the place where evil is destroyed in Christ.

If one person believes in fairies they exist. my six year old girl believes in fairys. what does that tell you?
They exist somewhere i don't know about.

Look! God created the world and all that is in it. He commanded them not to eat of the forbidden fruit. They did. They disobeyed. No choice was given them. He commanded them not to eat of the tree in the midst of the garden.

then you should be like "God" and leave a fully loaded gun without the safety on then command your (unleared)children not to play with it. leave the t.v. on some action movie(the snakes temptation) and see what happens from there. No choice was given them.

Can anyone blame him? He told them not to do it. Can anyone say to him he didn't tell us? Your argument is why did he put the forbidden fruit there in the first place, right? This is what we are discussing.

I can't. cuz the story is a complete work of fiction. no the argument for me is that that story is just a story.

You have two children and tell them not to play in the street. They do. Then what? Whose fault is it according to you? Yours or theirs? A commandment is not to be disobeyed but it was.

Theirs for having... NO, its your fault for being a stupid parent and not protecting them correctly.

I don't agree with you. Angels have choice. How come Michael and Gabriel didn't say "I will exalt me.."?

because they probably don't exist. Michael and Gabriel were minor jewish gods.

He creates evil. It is that simple to understand. God creates evil as well as good.

Glory, Glory alleluya.

If I was to follow your line of thinking, then God would be a malicious monster who made us just to watch us suffer. No offense. We are made in his image. That should tell you everything about God's power. Do you think a tornado is just that; a tornado? He made the forces of nature and they are in his power also. Jesus calmed the stormy sea. He controls all things.
God is love means that love is greater than the evil he creates. That is why love is God and evil isn't.

anything that doesn't look like you is a monster? how self-absorbed. My line of thinking is that there is probably no "God" as christians think of "him".

you said it yourself. evil is a part of the christian( i mean your) 'God'

 

[Runewolf1973]

It is my understanding that christians view "God" as omnipotent. If this is true and "God" is omnipotent, it would mean that "God" would have to be everywhere and exist in all things at all times. Is that right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Maybe some one has corrected this already but you are describing omnipresence.



I'd have to say that the general idea that people only accept a part of what God is to be true. Many only accept one attribute of God, for example they accept a loving God but reject His justness.

As to accepting other beliefs and science and what not, I believe your line of questioning is a bit confused.



Ever hear of the Trinity? Also just because you don't like the way God did it doesn't mean He is not omnipotent.



"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man..." Proverbs 14:12 God's ways are not your ways.




You are guilty of what you ask in the beginning. Why not accept all of what God is yet do it from a point of better understanding of Scripture.

Did you read all of my posts? I believe you are the one who lacks the understanding. Follow your heart not the bible. If "God" is love, then you will find "Him" through your heart and through love and acceptance, not through loaded words, or a loaded gun. I won't let some malevolent deity play Russian roulette with my own soul.

 

[Runewolf1973]

STILL.....I still hear no logical answers, only the canting of verses from the bible. Maybe I'll read off to you some of the Satanic Bible verses. Need to "balance" things out a bit. Then again, I don't like to preach other beliefs, I just look for the truths in them. There really is no "evil" in the Satanic Bible anyways. The "Holy" bible speaks of more "evil" and "Satan" and "wrath", and "destruction", and "hatred". How ironic! The Satanic Bible speaks of self-worship, or more like self-appreciation, and living in harmony with nature. Those of you who would call yourselves "Followers of Christ" have already shown me quite clearly the hatred, violence, and intolerance in the bible. That is about the only thing you've been able to prove to me thus far. Good job! I'm sure your God will be pleased with you.

 

[Linda777]

Runewolf1973;1335632

I don't recall saying that I would believe him that the had a gun or not, but that if he wanted to kill me, go for it. If "God" thinks that I'm so "evil" and want's me dead and gone, let Him strike me down now! GO ahead "God"! Do your will!

I'm sorry you misunderstood my question. I asked simply how would you determine truth in the invented situation and locate it?

Well, I'm not dead yet, must have been a lie. I'll just have to wait till "God" puts all of us on His glorious firing squad. You portray "God" to be about as "merciful" as the Church was to people during the Crusades.

Please don't call Catholicism Christianity. Christians kill no one. The early Christians were killed rather than kill. Why do you allow anyone to "define" God for you? God is merciful.

Not much different from Hitler I don't think.

Christ and Hitler the same? Never. Impossible.

Funny how the Cross became a symbol of love and the Swastika became a symbol of hate.

Hitler killed and Christ was killed for his love.The world's greatest tragedy;deicide became the world's greatest victory. Love.

I think they are now both symbols of hate and intolerance in their own right.

The swastika is synonymous with evil. The cross is synonymous with love and sacrifice. The civilized world knows this. Even the savage world knows this.

The Swastika in ancient times used to be a symbol for the Spiraling Universe. Kind of like the energy of "God" in perpetual "animate" motion. What if that was originally "God's" symbol intended for us? It appears in many cultures around the world, not always in such evil context. Humans took something really beautiful and manipulated it into something evil. I don't think the Swastika was ever meant to symbolize evil.

How did it come to a swastika discussion? I simply asked you what you would do in an invented situation. God doesn't hold a gun to anyone. His nail scarred hand is always extended to all. If I was accosted by a person claiming to have a gun, I would give him the benefit of the doubt. Never would I antagonize him more than he already is or tell him to kill me. There is a fifty-fifty chance he is lying since liars and thieves are bedfellows.Since he isn't showing the gun, more than likely he doesn't have one. I still would give him the benefit of my doubt. In my Christian walk I also always give God the benefit of the doubt and what God is holding on me is love and forgiveness.

Was not one of Hitler's ploys to convince everyone to follow him? Follow Him or die?

I have never spent anytime studying Hitler. I only know he killed so he could produce a "master race". He didn't kill his own people, only Jews and Christians.

Sounds to much like you're version of "God". Or perhaps that's really Satan which deceives you. I don't think "God" would really do that to anyone. Are you sure you are worshiping "God"? That's not the type of god I would want to bow my head down to. Most likely get it chopped off! Perhaps Hitler was just "playing" God. He did it pretty well I think.

I have no "version" of God. God doesn't come in versions.
I presented to you an invented situation and wanted to know your answer, that's all.

Your "God" can kill me and destroy me and punish me and torment me all He wants,

Your attitude is not the one to have about God. God didn't do anything to you but love you. He loves all of us and he is quite able to love us. I have no problem with that.

but that won't make me a follower. I follow Love and Truth, not hate.

If you followed love and truth why are you criticizing and judging me?

If "God" were to be even remotely like Hitler, I would never submit and be one of God's Nazis. For some odd reason, you do seem to enjoy your spreading of intolerance and ignorance towards other beliefs. Why not just "love thy enemies" instead?

I only have one enemy and he is the same enemy we all have; Satan. I'm not your enemy. I don't spread intolerance and ignorance anywhere, this is your judgment, not mine and certainly not God's.

I LOVE YOU in some indescribable way.

I love you too and all my fellow human beings. Why? Because I know that all humans are just like me. We need love and acceptance. We need warmth and smiles. I'm sorry I presented myself in a way that caused you to respond as you have.

I cannot possibly hate that which is part of "God". I love ALL of what "God" is.

Then why are you criticizing and calling me intolerant and ignorant? This isn't God.

I've even grown to realize that I even love and forgive those who in my past were mean or cruel to me. I don't have to always "like" someone, or "agree" with them, but I've found that I could never truly "hate" anyone.

Me neither. I can certainly hate what they do.

I don't even "hate" Hitler.

I am indifferent toward Hitler.

His mind was severely unbalanced and it made him do terrible and unfortunate things, but even inside of him, I believe there was some good.

I don't agree with you here. Good is greater than evil no matter how it is compared or in what vessel it is found in.

You cannot blame Hitler for being deceived by "Satan". Our minds deceive ALL of us. Some more so than others.

I disagree again here. My mind does not deceive me. I have a sound mind. If not then I could be deceived. I am aware of good and evil and avoid evil simply by choice.

There is some good to be found in ALL things.

There is no good in a cobra. Nor in a child molester or rapist. I totally disagree. Good is greater than evil.

It is that small part that I search for in everyone. Don't always look to someones negative side.

Every night in my prayers I pray "for all men everywhere" as the Bible instructs me to do. You don't know me at all.

In only looking at the negative, how will you ever see the positive?

How did I look at the negative? By asking you a simple question?

LOVE is being able to accept both the good with the bad.

No I do not accept the bad in a child molester or rapist, serial killer, liar, etc.. I do not even accept him unless he repents. Plato in his Symposium who was simply a thinker of his day rightly observed that we can only love what is lovable and respect what is respectable.

"God" is Love. Am I wrong?

Yes he is love and he is also a God of judgment (justice) what you do to others comes back to you weighing more than when you sent it to its target.

Do you think that "God" only sees what we do wrong?

He is not forgetful to remember our deeds of love. But what good are good deeds IE: if you didn't kill, but you did rob lie and rape? If someone held before me a white clean sheet with one black dot, yes I immediately first see the black stain. God sees that way also.

How could "God" cast partial good or love into the pit of "Hell"?

He is a God of laws and as I said earlier if you don't kill yet you rob and rape and lie God must deal with the bad things because he is fair and just. Paul the great apostle said if we offend in one point of the law we are guilty of them all. Jesus said that he that is unfaithful in least is unfaithful also in much.

It just would not go. Perhaps only that part which is "evil" or "lies" which our imbalanced mind "created" is destroyed, and the rest of the "good", the "pure", and the "balanced" remains with "God".

We are not dual in our behaviour unless we are unstable in our thinking as stated above and what bad we do must be judged since it is the destroyer. IE: Ted Bundy was a murderer and that evil in him was not destroyed, in fact he destroyed using its power.
You cannot put evil and good in the same cup.

No one can ever be wholly evil. But that is just my belief. Humans "create" lies and evil. "God" is the balance and the duality in "animate" living force as ONE. The "animate" energy of ALL things. Life and Love. Simple.

I see clearly how you think now. But God is not a balance or scale, but a spirit of love and he is intolerant of evil. This is why he sent his Son to destroy its power. He never balanced it or put another way, he never allowed it to remain and retain its power.
It seems you want someone to pull a rabbit out of a hat to give you a magical answer to what you are seeking. There is none.
Christ came to give us a sound mind. He came to make us see that he loves us dearly, that in this world where evil surely exists the only way to live without evil is to live in Him.

 

[Linda777]

Runewolf1973;1335670]

STILL.....I still hear no logical answers, only the canting of verses from the bible. Maybe I'll read off to you some of the Satanic Bible verses. Need to "balance" things out a bit. Then again, I don't like to preach other beliefs, I just look for the truths in them. There really is no "evil" in the Satanic Bible anyways. The "Holy" bible speaks of more "evil" and "Satan" and "wrath", and "destruction", and "hatred". How ironic! The Satanic Bible speaks of self-worship, or more like self-appreciation, and living in harmony with nature. Those of you who would call yourselves "Followers of Christ" have already shown me quite clearly the hatred, violence, and intolerance in the bible. That is about the only thing you've been able to prove to me thus far. Good job! I'm sure your God will be pleased with you.

Logic? Is it logical for one to murder yet in all other things he does good? Is this actually logical to you? There is no truth in a lie. No lie in a truth. I am not a murderer but I am a liar and a thief. This is balance to you? No evil in good no good in evil. Sounds like you want to place good and evil in a spiritual blender and get a balanced person.
No one can make me find anything in the Bible that isn't there. I am a seeker and found only good in the Bible. You now judge the Bible by Christians? Look to God not at us. We Christians never ever told you to look to us.
Your path of life seems to be to find a way, which there is none, for evil to co-exist with good.
You want balance between God and Satan. Only Satan will compromise but God will not compromise. I think you read my words with a biased view. This is unfair to me and also to you since you are clearly wrong.
The Bible speaks of one thing, the love and death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
It must be read from beginning to end to see its clear message.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I'm sorry you misunderstood my question. I asked simply how would you determine truth in the invented situation and locate it?

Please don't call Catholicism Christianity. Christians kill no one. The early Christians were killed rather than kill. Why do you allow anyone to "define" God for you? God is merciful.


Christ and Hitler the same? Never. Impossible.

Hitler killed and Christ was killed for his love.The world's greatest tragedy;deicide became the world's greatest victory. Love.

The swastika is synonymous with evil. The cross is synonymous with love and sacrifice. The civilized world knows this. Even the savage world knows this.

How did it come to a swastika discussion? I simply asked you what you would do in an invented situation. God doesn't hold a gun to anyone. His nail scarred hand is always extended to all. If I was accosted by a person claiming to have a gun, I would give him the benefit of the doubt. Never would I antagonize him more than he already is or tell him to kill me. There is a fifty-fifty chance he is lying since liars and thieves are bedfellows.Since he isn't showing the gun, more than likely he doesn't have one. I still would give him the benefit of my doubt. In my Christian walk I also always give God the benefit of the doubt and what God is holding on me is love and forgiveness.

I have never spent anytime studying Hitler. I only know he killed so he could produce a "master race". He didn't kill his own people, only Jews and Christians.
I have no "version" of God. God doesn't come in versions.
I presented to you an invented situation and wanted to know your answer, that's all.

Your attitude is not the one to have about God. God didn't do anything to you but love you. He loves all of us and he is quite able to love us. I have no problem with that.

If you followed love and truth why are you criticizing and judging me?

I only have one enemy and he is the same enemy we all have; Satan. I'm not your enemy. I don't spread intolerance and ignorance anywhere, this is your judgment, not mine and certainly not God's.

I love you too and all my fellow human beings. Why? Because I know that all humans are just like me. We need love and acceptance. We need warmth and smiles. I'm sorry I presented myself in a way that caused you to respond as you have.

Then why are you criticizing and calling me intolerant and ignorant? This isn't God.

Me neither. I can certainly hate what they do.

I am indifferent toward Hitler.

I don't agree with you here. Good is greater than evil no matter how it is compared or in what vessel it is found in.
I disagree again here. My mind does not deceive me. I have a sound mind. If not then I could be deceived. I am aware of good and evil and avoid evil simply by choice.

There is no good in a cobra. Nor in a child molester or rapist. I totally disagree. Good is greater than evil.

Every night in my prayers I pray "for all men everywhere" as the Bible instructs me to do. You don't know me at all.

How did I look at the negative? By asking you a simple question?

No I do not accept the bad in a child molester or rapist, serial killer, liar, etc.. I do not even accept him unless he repents. Plato in his Symposium who was simply a thinker of his day rightly observed that we can only love what is lovable and respect what is respectable.

Yes he is love and he is also a God of judgment (justice) what you do to others comes back to you weighing more than when you sent it to its target.

He is not forgetful to remember our deeds of love. But what good are good deeds IE: if you didn't kill, but you did rob lie and rape? If someone held before me a white clean sheet with one black dot, yes I immediately first see the black stain. God sees that way also.
He is a God of laws and as I said earlier if you don't kill yet you rob and rape and lie God must deal with the bad things because he is fair and just. Paul the great apostle said if we offend in one point of the law we are guilty of them all. Jesus said that he that is unfaithful in least is unfaithful also in much.

We are not dual in our behaviour unless we are unstable in our thinking as stated above and what bad we do must be judged since it is the destroyer. IE: Ted Bundy was a murderer and that evil in him was not destroyed, in fact he destroyed using its power.
You cannot put evil and good in the same cup.

I see clearly how you think now. But God is not a balance or scale, but a spirit of love and he is intolerant of evil. This is why he sent his Son to destroy its power. He never balanced it or put another way, he never allowed it to remain and retain its power.
It seems you want someone to pull a rabbit out of a hat to give you a magical answer to what you are seeking. There is none.
Christ came to give us a sound mind. He came to make us see that he loves us dearly, that in this world where evil surely exists the only way to live without evil is to live in Him.

We all have a right to an opinion here, and I respect your opinion. I am sorry if I offended you or your "God". But know that I will never be part of that Faith. I have a different path to follow. It is my own path to "God".

To answer your question.......How would I know if the person actually had a gun or not? Either way if I gave the money or not I could still get shot. I would probably just give the person the money and let them decide whats next. My fate is pretty much up to the person holding the gun is it not? I would have to question the mental stability of the person committing the crime in the first place. They are probably not right in the head. Something happened to them to drive them to do this act. They are in some way unbalanced and their demon side is showing through and manifesting itself. You can never really know what they will do or not. We must all be wary of the demons other people create for they can harm us as well. If "God" or Jesus were in anyway comparable to this, then I'd have to say that they too are unbalanced. I can't worship that.

Having an open mind does not simply mean that you listen to other points of view. It also means that you allow yourself a chance to understand those views and seek the truth in them. If you are not willing to seek the truth in other beliefs or views, then you are closed minded. This is why I believe Christianity has only part truth. They refuse to accept the rest. Just because that truth comes from an outside source does not mean it is necessarily false or lies or the work of Satan. In that mode of thinking alone, in their own minds they create evil and lies where before there was none. That is false. Why make nature and energy worshipers out to be some kind of devil worshipers? Just because someone does not follow YOUR faith or YOUR "God" does not make them evil, nor do they deserve to go to Hell. They are just different. Just accept it as so. "God" created that diversity for a reason. If "God" wanted a bunch "fluffy bunnies" in Heaven, then he would not have created snakes. If you go and destroy all the snakes, we are going to be living in "fluffy bunny" HELL! The real bunnies in nature I can live with, but the human kind drive me up the frickin wall!!!!!! I would rather roast in a thousand pieces for the rest of eternity!!!

 

[Runewolf1973]

Are you talking about the satanic bible that Anton La Vey wrote? Can you share me some of the "truths" found in it? I have conducted some research on this topic(satanism and satanists) for the past few years. I've red several philosophies/beliefs from satanists but I guess leaning does not end there.

I don't find great deals of truth in this philosophy, but there is some. They believe that it is better to put action into things rather than praying and waiting for "God" to do something. They believe that "God" is the balancing factor in nature. They also believe that the seven deadly sins are actually carnal instincts we humans have and that we should not disdain from acting upon our own human desires. I could get into it further, but yes, it is the the bible that Anton La Vey wrote. I'm not sure if in my previous posts I stated their beliefs quite accurately or not. I am not a follower of their ways either. They seem to be too stuck in their "minds" or "ego" for my taste. I tend to follow my own path. I appreciate your question.

 

[Linda777]

We all have a right to an opinion here, and I respect your opinion. I am sorry if I offended you or your "God". But know that I will never be part of that Faith. I have a different path to follow. It is my own path to "God".

To answer your question.......How would I know if the person actually had a gun or not? Either way if I gave the money or not I could still get shot. I would probably just give the person the money and let them decide whats next. My fate is pretty much up to the person holding the gun is it not? I would have to question the mental stability of the person committing the crime in the first place. They are probably not right in the head. Something happened to them to drive them to do this act. They are in some way unbalanced and their demon side is showing through and manifesting itself. You can never really know what they will do or not. We must all be wary of the demons other people create for they can harm us as well. If "God" or Jesus were in anyway comparable to this, then I'd have to say that they too are unbalanced. I can't worship that.

Having an open mind does not simply mean that you listen to other points of view. It also means that you allow yourself a chance to understand those views and seek the truth in them. If you are not willing to seek the truth in other beliefs or views, then you are closed minded. This is why I believe Christianity has only part truth. They refuse to accept the rest. Just because that truth comes from an outside source does not mean it is necessarily false or lies or the work of Satan. In that mode of thinking alone, in their own minds they create evil and lies where before there was none. That is false. Why make nature and energy worshipers out to be some kind of devil worshipers? Just because someone does not follow YOUR faith or YOUR "God" does not make them evil, nor do they deserve to go to Hell. They are just different. Just accept it as so. "God" created that diversity for a reason. If "God" wanted a bunch "fluffy bunnies" in Heaven, then he would not have created snakes. If you go and destroy all the snakes, we are going to be living in "fluffy bunny" HELL! The real bunnies in nature I can live with, but the human kind drive me up the frickin wall!!!!!! I would rather roast in a thousand pieces for the rest of eternity!!!

You said..". If you are not willing to seek the truth in other beliefs or views, then you are closed minded."

Please understand that since I have all I need and am satisfied, which I am, there is no need for me to seek anything.
It is like the old song says..
When I found Jesus I found what I'd been looking for." and all Christians who really do know Jesus they know their search is over.
You have the right to your own thoughts.

 

[Kathryn]

Hmmm, very interesting discussions here. Here's how I feel about the God questions (which, if we've got half a brain in our heads, we've all asked them):

First of all, God is vast. God's wisdom and knowledge so far exceeds ours. To me,when we shake our fist in God's face and demand answers, it's like our dog trying to second guess our motives when we haul him off and take him to the vet for shots. Does the dog EVER understand that the shots are good for him, that we are "doing this to him" because we LOVE him? No - he thinks the vet's office is an evil place where people stick him with sharp instruments, chop his testicles off, wash him in stinky stuff, clip his nails with scary scissors, etc. He can't imagine why the people who love him make him go there. But the dog's love is faithful - because he is submissive to his master.

God is totally holy and totally just. I believe this, in spite of my limited understanding. This is called faith. Faith requires submission of my will. We humans don't generally like that part of it, do we? But to me, it's the height of arrogance to assume that God owes us answers on demand.

God is not a vending machine.

I do believe that God promises and delivers wisdom to those who seek it from Him - in his own time. I believe that in order to learn from God, we have to open our hearts to truly listen to Him. That means letting go of our anger toward Him/Life/Others. "Be still and know that I am God." Wow, what a powerful statement.

Start there.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Hmmm, very interesting discussions here. Here's how I feel about the God questions (which, if we've got half a brain in our heads, we've all asked them):

First of all, God is vast. God's wisdom and knowledge so far exceeds ours. To me,when we shake our fist in God's face and demand answers, it's like our dog trying to second guess our motives when we haul him off and take him to the vet for shots. Does the dog EVER understand that the shots are good for him, that we are "doing this to him" because we LOVE him? No - he thinks the vet's office is an evil place where people stick him with sharp instruments, chop his testicles off, wash him in stinky stuff, clip his nails with scary scissors, etc. He can't imagine why the people who love him make him go there. But the dog's love is faithful - because he is submissive to his master.

God is totally holy and totally just. I believe this, in spite of my limited understanding. This is called faith. Faith requires submission of my will. We humans don't generally like that part of it, do we? But to me, it's the height of arrogance to assume that God owes us answers on demand.

God is not a vending machine.

I do believe that God promises and delivers wisdom to those who seek it from Him - in his own time. I believe that in order to learn from God, we have to open our hearts to truly listen to Him. That means letting go of our anger toward Him/Life/Others. "Be still and know that I am God." Wow, what a powerful statement.

Start there.

I can respect your opinion as well. The difference I see, is that I have always seen the Bible and God as a "quick fix" for sinners. To me it's always seemed way too easy for just anyone regardless of how evil or malicious they were to "get into Heaven". It is like TV dinner for the soul. When I was first introduced to Christianity, I did not have to do anything besides "ask for forgiveness and accept Jesus" and all was good. Something about it just seemed "too good to be true". It was not until I started asking questions that I realized what Heaven and Hell meant and why people should go either way. What if a person is as equally good as they are bad? What if they do "sin" but are not truly evil? Do they deserve to go to Hell? The Bible and the way it is written naturally leads some people to question it. What is wrong with questioning things? Is that not how we learn?

I always thought the path to "God" was the long narrow one. It was riddled with dangers both seen and unseen. Before we tread the ground we must question it's stability. Not blindly trod forth like cattle to the slaughter. Christianity seemed to me kind of like the Great Buffalo Jump in Native American History. That is why we are given the mind and the ability to think for ourselves, so we don't just jump without knowing into danger. Maybe those buffalo figured that "God" would carry them over the crevasse and to safety. "God" did not build them a bridge. They were destroyed anyways. When I question things, I do it because my senses are telling me something is just not right about it. I trust my senses, don't you? Perhaps Adam and Eve should have been more suspicious when the "serpent" told them to eat of the "apple". They took it without questioning "should we really be doing this?" and ate it blindly without sensing the danger first. Perhaps they did question it first, but they still ate it. That just means that they did not trust their senses. Any place where a snake might lie, we must always "test" the grasses before we walk. I don't know about you, but I don't wish to "step on any snakes" and get "bitten". Choose your path wisely. Wisdom is gained through learning and learning is gained through questioning. Before I come to the bible again, if ever, I will do so with caution, not blind faith. "The foolish man doth think himself wise, the wise man knows himself to be the fool." It is the true wise person who, knowing himself to be a fool, knows he must therefore question ALL things. Everyone has a right to question as they see fit. How many more "buffalo" do you wish to take with you on your "Jump of Faith?"

That means letting go of our anger toward Him/Life/Others. "Be still and know that I am God." Wow, what a powerful statement.

Odd how that statement kind of reminds me of that "stillness of mind" Zenzero keeps talking about. It was in that very "stillness" that I too discovered my answers. I truly began to understand the last few words....."I am God".

 

[Runewolf1973]

You said..". If you are not willing to seek the truth in other beliefs or views, then you are closed minded."

Please understand that since I have all I need and am satisfied, which I am, there is no need for me to seek anything.
It is like the old song says..
When I found Jesus I found what I'd been looking for." and all Christians who really do know Jesus they know their search is over.
You have the right to your own thoughts.

That is all I was asking for. The freedom to think for myself and question and find my own truths without fear of being scorned. Thank you! Now give that right freely to ALL mankind, including your own children. It is a sign of "grace".

I am not an evil "snake" that lurks in the shadows, but so long as that is how you perceive me, then that is what I will always be.

 

[Runewolf1973]

So long as you can "define" something, it becomes "finite". That is why I cannot truly define "God". I can not put a face or an object or a name to what it is. I merely call it "God", in quotations, to express the ALL in ALL or everything that exists. It is infinite. If the Christian "God" as worshiped, is a specific "deity" or "being" they perceive, then it is not "infinite", it is "finite". That to me is not a true "God". It is not all-powerful or ever-present. It exists in the fabrications of their minds. It is a false representation. A fake and a lie. But that is just my opinion. What is a lie to one person, is another person's truth. They have a right to believe, have faith in, or be blinded by what ever it is they wish. I see some truth in ALL things, but I also see the lies. I choose not to be "blinded" by anything. I know there is truth in the Bible, but in order to find it, I must "weed" it out first. That is when I will begin to see the "flowers".

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Christianity itself a lie or is false. I just feel that it's followers may be falsely led to believe that faith is all they need. I believe that it is important to have wisdom and to make wise choices and question all things. I don't know if Zenzero would say if faith was anything like "stillness of mind". Faith seems to come with preconceived notions of attaining something. "Stillness of mind" is more about Oneness and Acceptance. By having faith, one hopes to find guidance and some day achieve Oneness with "God" and find a place in Heaven, but in the "stillness of mind" you find that you already "know" what "God" is and have already achieved that "heaven". Hence the phrase....."Be STILL and KNOW that I am God". Perhaps you think you have found your answers, but you did not put them to the "test", so they may be false. Perhaps you have faith in "God's" word and feel that it brings you closer to "seeing God", but your view may be blinded by that faith. You may not see true. The difference between you and me, is that I KNOW the truth in my answers, and I KNOW that my vision is true. I don't need faith to help me believe what I already KNOW to be true. I would rather KNOW "God", than just believe or have faith in "God". In questioning and finding answers I KNOW what is true, in merely believing in things without really knowing why, I find weakness. I will not jump blindly in to a pool of unknown water without knowing what lurks in it's depths. I will not allow myself to become Piranha fodder, no matter who tells tells me to just "jump in". Christians seem to want to "tempt" others in to joining them in their blind "leap of faith". They "tempt" many, for it is easy to just "believe" in something you know nothing about, nor care to question. It takes effort to actually find the truth behind the belief. It takes courage to stand before "God" and to question spear for spear. To me, to have "blind faith" and to "trust" in what I don't know to be true, sounds like an invitation from the devil.

 

[faithofabraham]

christians seem to want to "tempt" others in to joining them in their blind "leap of faith". They "tempt" many, for it is easy to just "believe" in something you know nothing about, nor care to question. It takes effort to actually find the truth behind the belief. It takes courage to stand before "God" and to question spear for spear. To me, to have "blind faith" and to "trust" in what I don't know to be true, sounds like an invitation from the devil.

except that it is God who asks us to have faith. Blind, not completely, we have the bible. To not question the things in the bible especially when speaking to others about the bible would be idiotic. You would be asking to be lead astray. And no following the word of God is far from easy. The burden is light, but the road is hard.
in the book of James he says the he will show his faith by his works, and without works faith is dead. Having faith that God exists is a very small step in coming to the truth. Reading and coming to understand the bible and the message from God is a gigantic step, but in the end after all of that if your actions(reading and understanding the truth of the bible being one of them) dont back up your words then the "faith" that you practice is dead in the eyes of God.

FOA

 

[Runewolf1973]

except that it is God who asks us to have faith. Blind, not completely, we have the bible. To not question the things in the bible especially when speaking to others about the bible would be idiotic. You would be asking to be lead astray. And no following the word of God is far from easy. The burden is light, but the road is hard.
in the book of James he says the he will show his faith by his works, and without works faith is dead. Having faith that God exists is a very small step in coming to the truth. Reading and coming to understand the bible and the message from God is a gigantic step, but in the end after all of that if your actions(reading and understanding the truth of the bible being one of them) dont back up your words then the "faith" that you practice is dead in the eyes of God.

FOA

I don't "believe" in a God, nor do I have "faith" in a God. I don't practice a "faith", or a "belief".

I KNOW "God" and I UNDERSTAND "God"

I don't need "faith" to reinforce that which I already KNOW and SEE and EXPERIENCE for myself. It is just simply THERE, and it EXISTS. I find it way more fulfilling to personally KNOW "God", rather than merely "believe" in a God. In truth, we ALL KNOW "God", we just don't always accept things for the way they truly are. We let thoughts of "mysticism" and "supernatural" and "faith" cloud our true vision of what is REALITY. My understanding of "God" IS REALITY. There is nothing supernatural or "mystic" about it. I don't believe in the supernatural. "God" is NATURAL. SPIRIT is natural. It is the "animate" energy of ALL things. It is the vibrational frequencies of electrons and neutrons and protons, and possibly even smaller forms which comprises ALL things. It is so small, yet part of something infinitely larger.It is the energy inside of us which make us "alive", "animated", "breathing". Even a scientist, a philosopher, or an atheist would be able to understand and accept this concept. It is only the "idol" or "deity" worshipers that "create" false gods and are led astray. Even an animal, or tree, or stone accepts this REALITY. We are ALL part of this EXISTENCE. That is "God". You don't even need to "name" it or "verify" it or "believe" it, just accept that you are part of it. You don't even have to call it "God" if you don't want to. It is just simply EXISTING in harmonic balance with everything else. It's power is found even in the very pages of the bible. If it were not for this "God" we would not even have the paper and books with which to contain the message. ALL things are as ONE. No religion or belief, or faith is strong enough to pull apart the "fabric" of EXISTENCE.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Follow your heart not the bible. If "God" is love, then you will find "Him" through your heart and through love and acceptance, not through loaded words, or a loaded gun.

Except that biblical love is not an emotion.

I won't let some malevolent deity play Russian roulette with my own soul.

As if you have a choice. If the Bible is correct then God holds all of the cards. Your choice is simple...accept or decline.

Also, as I stated before, your understanding of the Biblical God is distorted as you deem to call Him malevolent.