Merciful God?? I think not.

[Runewolf1973]

Except that biblical love is not an emotion.
As if you have a choice. If the Bible is correct then God holds all of the cards. Your choice is simple...accept or decline.

Also, as I stated before, your understanding of the Biblical God is distorted as you deem to call Him malevolent.

So in other words......Follow your Christian God or suffer eternal damnation in Hell!!!!!!!


You see? Even "God" needs time to sleep. I am that part of "God" which is awakening to realization. You are that part of "God" which is still asleep. How long will you be sleeping for?

 

[Kathryn]

I can respect your opinion as well. The difference I see, is that I have always seen the Bible and God as a "quick fix" for sinners. To me it's always seemed way too easy for just anyone regardless of how evil or malicious they were to "get into Heaven". It is like TV dinner for the soul. When I was first introduced to Christianity, I did not have to do anything besides "ask for forgiveness and accept Jesus" and all was good. Something about it just seemed "too good to be true". It was not until I started asking questions that I realized what Heaven and Hell meant and why people should go either way. What if a person is as equally good as they are bad? What if they do "sin" but are not truly evil? Do they deserve to go to Hell? The Bible and the way it is written naturally leads some people to question it. What is wrong with questioning things? Is that not how we learn?

I agree with you, of course, about the importance of asking questions. I never meant to imply otherwise. God gave us the ability to reason and make choices.

But the crux of faith is to submit to a higher authority, and when we submit to any authority, that means that sometimes though we don't understand WHY something is the way it is, it doesn't matter - we obey. Obedience doesn't have to be BLIND, but it does require submission to someone else's authority.

In fact, my faith requires that I do seek wisdom, enlightenment, understanding. That's the only way that I will grow and be a witness of my faith. So I read, pray, study, and most importantly of all, I open my heart and mind to that small, still voice of God. It takes discipline.

As for your experience with Christianity, I can't really speak to that, other than to say that hasn't been my experience at all. Based on my own experiences, I do not believe "once saved, always saved." I personally believe that a lot of "Christians" are in for a rude awakening. First of all, "asking for forgiveness," is not just phraseology and pretty words. To ask for forgiveness, one must first of all accept responsibility for one's actions. This alone is a step that too many people find very difficult. Oh, the weight of that realization! And this is an ongoing experience, because we all continue to sin, in "large" and "small" ways.

Then there's that "accepting Jesus" part. Accepting God's grace is very humbling, because if you've got the first part right (asking for forgiveness) then you realize what a wretched little screwed up person you really are. You realize how petty, punitive, and irresponsible you've been and how your careless, selfish decisions have impacted others. And then to understand that God STILL loves you with the most holy and unselfish love imaginable - if that doesn't bring you to your knees I don't know what will.


I always thought the path to "God" was the long narrow one. It was riddled with dangers both seen and unseen.

I think in a sense you're right about this. I think that Christians should never take their salvation lightly. CS Lewis has a great quote. He says, "He who says 'I am not afraid of God because God is good' must never have been to the dentist."

Before we tread the ground we must question it's stability. Not blindly trod forth like cattle to the slaughter. Christianity seemed to me kind of like the Great Buffalo Jump in Native American History. That is why we are given the mind and the ability to think for ourselves, so we don't just jump without knowing into danger. Maybe those buffalo figured that "God" would carry them over the crevasse and to safety. "God" did not build them a bridge. They were destroyed anyways. When I question things, I do it because my senses are telling me something is just not right about it. I trust my senses, don't you?

No, I don't always trust my senses or my heart. I think that as humans, we bring too much baggage to the table to assert that we can be totally objective in our search for wisdom and understanding.

If we could totally trust our own judgment, we'd never make the wrong decisions. I don't know about you, but I haven't always made the right choices in life. Who can honestly say they've never made an honest mistake?

Please don't assume that others whose expression of faith differs from yours have not questioned their path or taken their quest for wisdom very seriously.

I truly began to understand the last few words....."I am God".

Personally, I do not believe that "I am God," or that you are either, for that matter. God forbid! If I'm God, we're all in trouble! I am grateful for an Omnipotent God whose utter holiness surpasses mine and who has a great plan for His universe, and for you and me.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Personally, I do not believe that "I am God," or that you are either, for that matter. God forbid! If I'm God, we're all in trouble! I am grateful for an Omnipotent God whose utter holiness surpasses mine and who has a great plan for His universe, and for you and me.

I bown down to no one besides the Universe itself. I am an energy worshiper. If your God is not another form of energy, then in my mind, it does not exist. If your God is another form of energy, then I am already worshiping it in it's most purest form. I unlike you, do not worship "idols" or "deities", for your idol may be a false one. Living Spirit Energy cannot be false. It is that force which "animates" ALL things. ALL energy is "animate" and has this natural "vibrational" frequency. Even scientists understand this. At least I can "prove" that my "God" exists. Can you do the same?

Oh that's right, your God exists because the Bible says it does and the Bible doesn't lie.....Well, you pick your apples if that is what you wish to do. I don't pick apart what "God" is. I choose to accept the whole tree. Now that is ONE tree that I would never want to break any branches off!! Yet that is exactly what you are doing by "picking apples".

In worshiping Living Spirit Energy and the "whole tree" as ONE, I accept ALL of what "God" is. Because you worship something that is separate from THIS existence, you leave yourself vulnerable to the possibility of idolizing something which is false and non-existing. I refuse to close any doors on "God". In "God" there can be no idols. ALL things are ONE.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

How long will you be sleeping for?

It looks like as long as I read your posts. :sleep:

 

[Runewolf1973]

It looks like as long as I read your posts. :sleep:

Keep sleeping. It only serves to reinforce what I've been saying all along. Thank you!:clap

“ Against logic there is no armor like ignorance. ” Laurence J. Peter

Laurence J. Peter​

 

[Falvlun]

Please don't call Catholicism Christianity. Christians kill no one. The early Christians were killed rather than kill.

Catholicism is a type of Christianity, just like Pentecostal is, just like Lutheran is, ad nauseum. Actually, the Catholics probably have a stronger claim than most on the "Christian" designator, since it was basically the first.

As far as the "Christians don't kill" nonsense, I suppose you don't believe any American soldier is a Christian.

But, maybe you were trying to say "Christians don't kill for their faith", which still isn't quite true. What of the KKK? The Crusades? The Inquisition? The forced conversion of native peoples? I'm not trying to say all Christians are mass murderers; I'm just trying to point out that Christians aren't nor were always a perfectly rosy bunch of people.

Why do you allow anyone to "define" God for you? God is merciful.

I don't get this. First you ask why you'd allow anyone to define God, and then you go on to define God.

Christ and Hitler the same? Never. Impossible.

Nobody is saying that they are identical twins. But you can find similarities: both were charismatic leaders and powerful orators.

The swastika is synonymous with evil. The cross is synonymous with love and sacrifice. The civilized world knows this. Even the savage world knows this..

Please look into the history of these two symbols. The swastika was commonly used all over the world for centuries before Hitler commandeered it. It's original meaning was quite positive, translating to "to be good" from Sanskrit. It often represented the sun, life, good luck, strength, etc.

In contrast, the cross was a method of one of the cruelest tortures invented by man. It was a symbol of death, slavery, and criminality.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by the "savage world", but if you mean "indigenous peoples who still follow the ways of their ancestors with little contact with the modern world", I would place my money on the swastika being better received.

I don't agree with you here. Good is greater than evil no matter how it is compared or in what vessel it is found in.

Even if that vessel is a human?
If your statement is true, then why did Adam sin in the first place?
Why are there completely bad humans... which you seem to believe exist?

There is no good in a cobra. Nor in a child molester or rapist. I totally disagree. Good is greater than evil.

A child molester has a very bad problem, but that does not mean there is no good in him/her. That is like saying a person who crochets does nothing else but crochet. Child molestation is just one part. You should be encouraging the other part, where good resides, to overcome the bad part.

And why do you pick on the cobra? Snakes are just another animal in a world filled with animals. They eat rodents and other things which might over-run that specific eco-system if the cobra were not there. Additionally, snakes are commonly depicted as associated with healing power...
Why would God create an evil animal anyway? As far as I know, Christians generally do not subscribe souls to animals, nor the ability to choose between good and evil.

He is not forgetful to remember our deeds of love. But what good are good deeds IE: if you didn't kill, but you did rob lie and rape? If someone held before me a white clean sheet with one black dot, yes I immediately first see the black stain. God sees that way also.

So the one small black dot (evil) is enough to condemn the rest of the white (good) sheet to the garbage heap? I thought that good was greater than evil. On top of that, the good is in the majority. So it should defeat that black dot single-handedly. Guess I got that one wrong....

Also, I find it interesting that you seem to assume that all people either kill, rape, steal, etc. Those are some pretty hefty crimes; everyone should be in prison. I would think that the majority of people go through life doing nothing worse than telling their girlfriend those jeans don't make her look fat, even though they do.

Paul the great apostle said if we offend in one point of the law we are guilty of them all.

I am so glad that guy didn't write our legal code.

We are not dual in our behaviour unless we are unstable in our thinking as stated above and what bad we do must be judged since it is the destroyer. IE: Ted Bundy was a murderer and that evil in him was not destroyed, in fact he destroyed using its power.

Oh, I disagree. We are very dual in our behavior. Some days we are crabby and snippish; other days we are magnanimous. We stick our tongues out at our sisters and then we apologize to them the next day. That's human behavior. Nobody's totally evil and nobody's totally good. It's just humanly impossible.

You cannot put evil and good in the same cup.

But God did. Or is. I forget. He created both good and evil and plopped it right here on Earth. And you've got to be a little evil to create evil in the first place. Er...

But God is not a balance or scale, but a spirit of love and he is intolerant of evil.

But you wrote this too:

God is love and he is also a God of judgment."

So he is a scale AND a spirit of love. Just trying to keep your story straight.

 

[Linda777]

Catholicism is a type of Christianity, just like Pentecostal is, just like Lutheran is, ad nauseum. Actually, the Catholics probably have a stronger claim than most on the "Christian" designator, since it was basically the first.

As far as the "Christians don't kill" nonsense, I suppose you don't believe any American soldier is a Christian.

But, maybe you were trying to say "Christians don't kill for their faith", which still isn't quite true. What of the KKK? The Crusades? The Inquisition? The forced conversion of native peoples? I'm not trying to say all Christians are mass murderers; I'm just trying to point out that Christians aren't nor were always a perfectly rosy bunch of people.


I don't get this. First you ask why you'd allow anyone to define God, and then you go on to define God.


Nobody is saying that they are identical twins. But you can find similarities: both were charismatic leaders and powerful orators.



Please look into the history of these two symbols. The swastika was commonly used all over the world for centuries before Hitler commandeered it. It's original meaning was quite positive, translating to "to be good" from Sanskrit. It often represented the sun, life, good luck, strength, etc.

In contrast, the cross was a method of one of the cruelest tortures invented by man. It was a symbol of death, slavery, and criminality.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by the "savage world", but if you mean "indigenous peoples who still follow the ways of their ancestors with little contact with the modern world", I would place my money on the swastika being better received.



Even if that vessel is a human?
If your statement is true, then why did Adam sin in the first place?
Why are there completely bad humans... which you seem to believe exist?



A child molester has a very bad problem, but that does not mean there is no good in him/her. That is like saying a person who crochets does nothing else but crochet. Child molestation is just one part. You should be encouraging the other part, where good resides, to overcome the bad part.

And why do you pick on the cobra? Snakes are just another animal in a world filled with animals. They eat rodents and other things which might over-run that specific eco-system if the cobra were not there. Additionally, snakes are commonly depicted as associated with healing power...
Why would God create an evil animal anyway? As far as I know, Christians generally do not subscribe souls to animals, nor the ability to choose between good and evil.



So the one small black dot (evil) is enough to condemn the rest of the white (good) sheet to the garbage heap? I thought that good was greater than evil. On top of that, the good is in the majority. So it should defeat that black dot single-handedly. Guess I got that one wrong....

Also, I find it interesting that you seem to assume that all people either kill, rape, steal, etc. Those are some pretty hefty crimes; everyone should be in prison. I would think that the majority of people go through life doing nothing worse than telling their girlfriend those jeans don't make her look fat, even though they do.



I am so glad that guy didn't write our legal code.


Oh, I disagree. We are very dual in our behavior. Some days we are crabby and snippish; other days we are magnanimous. We stick our tongues out at our sisters and then we apologize to them the next day. That's human behavior. Nobody's totally evil and nobody's totally good. It's just humanly impossible.


But God did. Or is. I forget. He created both good and evil and plopped it right here on Earth. And you've got to be a little evil to create evil in the first place. Er...


But you wrote this too:

So he is a scale AND a spirit of love. Just trying to keep your story straight.

You have every right to think as you do. I don't agree but.....
Sounds like you really want to argue. I like to discuss not argue.

 

[Falvlun]

You have every right to think as you do. I don't agree but.....
Sounds like you really want to argue. I like to discuss not argue.

I'm just pointing out inconsistencies in your statements. I am debating, which is a bit more rigorous than discussion and a bit more constrained than combat: think of the philosophic term of "argument" and that is how I think. I need logic and reason, otherwise my mind rejects things. Perhaps the true answer is that God (or the Christian God, rather), is a God of contradictions, and one just has to accept that and move on.

Edit:
Re-reading my previous post, I think I was being rather civil.

 

[Linda777]

Kathryn;1336562]Hmmm, very interesting discussions here. Here's how I feel about the God questions (which, if we've got half a brain in our heads, we've all asked them):

Yep

First of all, God is vast.

Yep

God's wisdom and knowledge so far exceeds ours.

Exceeds really where we have none actually and what we might have it came from him.

To me,when we shake our fist in God's face and demand answers, it's like our dog trying to second guess our motives when we haul him off and take him to the vet for shots. Does the dog EVER understand that the shots are good for him, that we are "doing this to him" because we LOVE him? No - he thinks the vet's office is an evil place where people stick him with sharp instruments, chop his testicles off, wash him in stinky stuff, clip his nails with scary scissors, etc. He can't imagine why the people who love him make him go there. But the dog's love is faithful - because he is submissive to his master.

Exactly. God is a God of laws, how I wish people understood this.

God is totally holy and totally just. I believe this, in spite of my limited understanding. This is called faith. Faith requires submission of my will. We humans don't generally like that part of it, do we? But to me, it's the height of arrogance to assume that God owes us answers on demand.

It is the height of arrogance. And the depths.

God is not a vending machine.

I agree

I do believe that God promises and delivers wisdom to those who seek it from Him - in his own time. I believe that in order to learn from God, we have to open our hearts to truly listen to Him. That means letting go of our anger toward Him/Life/Others. "Be still and know that I am God." Wow, what a powerful statement.

Jesus said that few will find the way. Nothing can change that statement from him. I know that more will be lost than saved. If I say this, I am attacked by the world who believes God is what they say he is. God is to them whatever they imagine him to be.
I know the scripture speaks of evil imagination;it describes it perfectly.
That is why there are gazillions of cults today with all with the same thought that God to them is what is right for them.

As I have walked the Christian walk I can truly say the joy and peace in knowing Jesus is indescribable. I can easily understand why many died rather than deny Jesus Christ.
The Bible is no ordinary book, yet to those who skim its surface and then deny its truth, that it is just another book have never met God.
Few will be saved. Few.

 

[Linda777]

So in other words......Follow your Christian God or suffer eternal damnation in Hell!!!!!!!


You see? Even "God" needs time to sleep. I am that part of "God" which is awakening to realization. You are that part of "God" which is still asleep. How long will you be sleeping for?

Christians understand the laws of God.

 

[Linda777]

I'm just pointing out inconsistencies in your statements. I am debating, which is a bit more rigorous than discussion and a bit more constrained than combat: think of the philosophic term of "argument" and that is how I think. I need logic and reason, otherwise my mind rejects things. Perhaps the true answer is that God (or the Christian God, rather), is a God of contradictions, and one just has to accept that and move on.

Edit:
Re-reading my previous post, I think I was being rather civil.

I wasn't inconsistent. You don't understand. God is a God of laws; this is how I know him and through the Son. So now what we go back and forth? I know the Bible from beginning to end, so this proves for me that I can only discuss the Bible from its beginning and follow the orderly story of what the Bible is all about, which is Christ. But I won't because most people are not interested in what God has to say, but are only interested in what they have to say.

 

[Falvlun]

I wasn't inconsistent. You don't understand. God is a God of laws; this is how I know him and through the Son. So now what we go back and forth? I know the Bible from beginning to end, so this proves for me that I can only discuss the Bible from its beginning and follow the orderly story of what the Bible is all about, which is Christ. But I won't because most people are not interested in what God has to say, but are only interested in what they have to say.

Linda, I do understand where you are coming from; the difference is that I can not blindly believe the Bible. Everything you believe is through the Bible. But what if it is wrong? This is a thought your mind naturally rebels against. And the thought of simply accepting the Bible is something my mind naturally rebels against.

I just don't understand why God would make it easier for some people to be Christians than for others. Is it just that a child is raised in a Muslim-dominated region and another child is raised in a Christian-dominated region? Does not the child growing up with the stories of Christ have more of a chance to be saved than the one learning to recite the Koran? Why would you create a creature with an inquisitive, probing mind, and then tell him to just believe?

You want to know the truth? I desperately wish I could believe. But I can't lie. I can't lie to myself and to God.

 

[Linda777]

Falvlun;1341291]Linda, I do understand where you are coming from; the difference is that I can not blindly believe the Bible. Everything you believe is through the Bible. But what if it is wrong? This is a thought your mind naturally rebels against. And the thought of simply accepting the Bible is something my mind naturally rebels against.

I have studied the Bible for years and this has been my love through life. I had an exceptionally sorrowful life and I needed help. I earnestly asked God for help. He in turn taught me to understand the Bible. It floored me. I was totally floored when I saw the story in the Bible what it was and about.

I just don't understand why God would make it easier for some people to be Christians than for others. Is it just that a child is raised in a Muslim-dominated region and another child is raised in a Christian-dominated region? Does not the child growing up with the stories of Christ have more of a chance to be saved than the one learning to recite the Koran? Why would you create a creature with an inquisitive, probing mind, and then tell him to just believe?

I totally agree with you. I have had questions too but it is obvious that even as we are born in different countries learning different beliefs, different everything we come up with different answers. I have a very inquisitive mind and I learned there is no way we can understand the mind that created the universe. I cannot created a universe and neither can you.

You want to know the truth? I desperately wish I could believe. But I can't lie. I can't lie to myself and to God.

I have wondered about many things too, but I believe and do know that no one can fathom his mind. Why even try?
I told this person that is teaching people that Eve had sex with the serpent that she is so way off, it is absurd, but my point is she is trying to figure out the garden of Eden story.
God just made it simple for us he really did.
But I do not understand and yet I do understand why so many are without Christ.

 

[Linda777]

Falvlun;1341235]Catholicism is a type of Christianity, just like Pentecostal is, just like Lutheran is, ad nauseum. Actually, the Catholics probably have a stronger claim than most on the "Christian" designator, since it was basically the first.

No Catholicism is nothing like Christianity. Catholicism is not Biblical.

As far as the "Christians don't kill" nonsense, I suppose you don't believe any American soldier is a Christian.

We are not to kill. America is not the church.

But, maybe you were trying to say "Christians don't kill for their faith", which still isn't quite true. What of the KKK? The Crusades? The Inquisition? The forced conversion of native peoples? I'm not trying to say all Christians are mass murderers; I'm just trying to point out that Christians aren't nor were always a perfectly rosy bunch of people.

Christians do not kill. Why do you call killers Christians? Christians are simple followers of Christ. No degree needed, no nothing. The Inquisitions were started by Isabella and Ferdinand who were Catholics. The KKK is a race movement has nothing to do with Jesus Christ, though they think it does. Jesus told us to "strive to enter in at the straight gate" This would be self-denial.

I don't get this. First you ask why you'd allow anyone to define God, and then you go on to define God.

God is what i said, Not a definition really but he is that.

Nobody is saying that they are identical twins. But you can find similarities: both were charismatic leaders and powerful orators.

Jesus was not a great orator he is God our God and Saviour.

Please look into the history of these two symbols. The swastika was commonly used all over the world for centuries before Hitler commandeered it. It's original meaning was quite positive, translating to "to be good" from Sanskrit. It often represented the sun, life, good luck, strength, etc.

Hitler killed Jews and Christians. He was for a "master race" whatever that is. The Crusades were conducted by the Muslims.

In contrast, the cross was a method of one of the cruelest tortures invented by man. It was a symbol of death, slavery, and criminality.

Yes and from that great tragedy came the world's greatest victory. Life over death.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by the "savage world", but if you mean "indigenous peoples who still follow the ways of their ancestors with little contact with the modern world", I would place my money on the swastika being better received.

I mean the masses who are not civilized. Yet I do believe that savages were made by God to be just that;savages. Nothing wrong with what God did.

Even if that vessel is a human?
If your statement is true, then why did Adam sin in the first place?
Why are there completely bad humans... which you seem to believe exist?

I understand God as the laws that govern the universe. He came in a man Jesus Christ. But in the beginning he was not in touch with us as when he was a man.
Adam sinned because he disobeyed what was commanded him by God. It was in him to do it and he did it. It had to be that way.
Something within us is bad and this is what caused Adam to sin and the suggestion to give in to this was presented to him by the serpent.
Then Jesus became sin on the cross to destroy its power over us IF we are in Christ.

A child molester has a very bad problem, but that does not mean there is no good in him/her. That is like saying a person who crochets does nothing else but crochet. Child molestation is just one part. You should be encouraging the other part, where good resides, to overcome the bad part.

If and I say If something in him was good where was it at when he molested that child? He ignored it and obeyed evil in him. I do encourage but he is still wrong as could be.

And why do you pick on the cobra? Snakes are just another animal in a world filled with animals. They eat rodents and other things which might over-run that specific eco-system if the cobra were not there. Additionally, snakes are commonly depicted as associated with healing power...
Why would God create an evil animal anyway? As far as I know, Christians generally do not subscribe souls to animals, nor the ability to choose between good and evil.

I don't like snakes. It is natural to me to not like them. God made many evil things including us.
Snakes are evil, not capable of doing good.

So the one small black dot (evil) is enough to condemn the rest of the white (good) sheet to the garbage heap? I thought that good was greater than evil. On top of that, the good is in the majority. So it should defeat that black dot single-handedly. Guess I got that one wrong....

Yes one sin is enough to destroy us. A murderer can't tell the justice system that they should look at the good in him. It doesn't work that way. Good is greater than evil that is why all sin must go.

Also, I find it interesting that you seem to assume that all people either kill, rape, steal, etc. Those are some pretty hefty crimes; everyone should be in prison. I would think that the majority of people go through life doing nothing worse than telling their girlfriend those jeans don't make her look fat, even though they do.

Many people do kill and rape and steal. I don't assume it, I hear it on the news every day.

I am so glad that guy didn't write our legal code.

God? He did.

Oh, I disagree. We are very dual in our behavior. Some days we are crabby and snippish; other days we are magnanimous. We stick our tongues out at our sisters and then we apologize to them the next day. That's human behavior. Nobody's totally evil and nobody's totally good. It's just humanly impossible.

Yes we are dual in our behaviour and this is why Christ came.

But God did. Or is. I forget. He created both good and evil and plopped it right here on Earth. And you've got to be a little evil to create evil in the first place. Er...

We don't understand it all, but he did come to make the way for us to overcome it.
God is not evil. Let me put it this way; there is good and evil and good is greater than evil so good (or GOD) is God. Evil cannot be God because good is greater so good is GOD because it is greater. Make sense?


But you wrote this too:

So he is a scale AND a spirit of love. Just trying to keep your story straight.
I said he was a scale? Where did I say that? I need it in context.

 

[Kathryn]

I unlike you, do not worship "idols"

I don't worship idols. I worship the Alpha and the Omega.


ALL energy is "animate" and has this natural "vibrational" frequency. Even scientists understand this. At least I can "prove" that my "God" exists.

All this means is that science proves that energy exists. This does not prove the existance of what you are calling " your God."

Oh that's right, your God exists because the Bible says it does and the Bible doesn't lie.....Well, you pick your apples if that is what you wish to do.

Runewolf, I am predisposed to like you, but I won't debate sarcastically or judgmentally. Let's keep it clean and maybe we can learn something from each other. Otherwise, this conversation is sort of pointless.

In worshiping Living Spirit Energy and the "whole tree" as ONE, I accept ALL of what "God" is. Because you worship something that is separate from THIS existence, you leave yourself vulnerable to the possibility of idolizing something which is false and non-existing.

I don't believe at all that God is separate from this existance. As you get to know me better (if you're interested in that), you will be more qualified to expound on what I believe. As of now, you don't know enough about me to tell me what I believe - other than what I've shared with you and the group. Don't jump to conclusions. That's a sign of a closed mind.

I refuse to close any doors on "God". In "God" there can be no idols.

I agree totally with this statement.

ALL things are ONE.

Just what do you mean by this? Are our minds one? If so, how can this be? If not, then this statement is false.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Just what do you mean by this? Are our minds one? If so, how can this be? If not, then this statement is false.

If you read some of my other posts on different threads in this forum, you would understand my point of view a little more clearly. ALL things are ONE. By this I mean that all energy is one and the same. We are all part of it, and we are all subjects to it. The only thing that separates us is our ability to "think". Our minds created religion and that separated us from each other and "God". Basically "Satan" is the Mind. Even though we can all have different thoughts and we are capable of being individuals, we are all part of the same existence. ALL is ONE, yet ALL is different. ALL of this energy has always been and always will be. It can never be created and it can never be destroyed. Does that not sound to you, oddly a lot like "God"? But yet all this energy that exists is constantly and ever changing. This is why I don't believe in "creation", I believe in "animation". The "animate" energy that is life and existence. I believe that even our own thoughts are a form of energy in constant change. If we believe in something strongly enough, it gives that thing energy and power. It makes "belief" or "faith" into something very strong. Our prayers and our thoughts can affect energy. Therefore, miracles CAN happen, but it is really ourselves and our energy that is doing it. The Alpha and the Omega which you speak of sounds like a duality. I also worship duality, but I see the two as balancing factors in the universe. It is like the positive and the negative. Without this duality, change would not happen. It's like the Yin and Yang of the Universe. What would a coin be if you took away one of the sides? It would be nothing. What if you ground one of the sides down? It would be thrown off balance. "God" to me is like the perfectly balanced coin that spins perfectly on the table. It is the Yin and the Yang duality in perfect "animate" motion. Even though both sides of the coin are separate and distinct, it is the ring that goes all the way around the outside that "knows" and understands both sides of the coin. "God" is that ring. And it is on that ring that the whole universe spins in perfect balance. There are three distinct elements to the Yin and Yang symbol. The positive, the negative, and the spiraling of the two into ONE. Without the "movement" of this energy, there is no change. It is this movement that "animates" ALL things and brings it all together into ONE. ALL things are ONE.

 

[challupa]

I've been watching this debate go back and forth between two very distinct mindsets and it's been fascinating. I don't see too much you agree on, but I can see one thing you have in common. You all love God in a way that has meaning for you. It's obvious that you're different ideas of God bring you each a great deal of comfort and that is beautiful. Thank you for your frank discussion, I have enjoyed it immensely.:yes:

 

[Kathryn]

ALL things are ONE. By this I mean that all energy is one and the same. We are all part of it, and we are all subjects to it.

Sorry, but even after reading and re reading your explanation of this statement, I just can't agree with it. I do agree with some aspects of your beliefs (which I'll point out) but when you subtract what I DON'T agree with, then you'll see why I can't wrap things up in the statement "All things are one."

Our minds created religion and that separated us from each other and "God".

Some truth here. Religion and faith have some overlapping concepts but they're not the same thing. I am opposed to religiosity myself, even as a "liturgical" Christian.

Basically "Satan" is the Mind.

Sorry - I absolutely cannot agree with this statement. However, I do see a sort of "shadow" of one of my beliefs in this assertion. I believe that man's basic nature is fallen, and that man is NOT inherently good. Therefore, unless and until we submit our hearts and minds to God, our minds are fertile ground for Satan.

ALL of this energy has always been and always will be. It can never be created and it can never be destroyed. Does that not sound to you, oddly a lot like "God"?

Close but not there, in my opinion. I think you've got it backwards. Rather than my "God" sounding a lot like your "energy," I think your ideas of energy are less than complete ideas about God.

Furthermore, life can be destroyed. I don't believe in reincarnation, so I do believe that our earthly bodies do die. Sure, they decay and then plants grow out of them and worms eat them, etc. etc. But the essence of what made us HUMAN is gone. I believe our soul lives on, but our earthly body stops living. I think that the basic nature of our world is that it is slowing, decaying, in a long process of running down - and that it will end one day.

But yet all this energy that exists is constantly and ever changing. This is why I don't believe in "creation", I believe in "animation".

Pleasant enough idea, but of course you know that as a Christian, I don't believe this. It does sound charming though, and like many of your statements, I think it holds an element of truth - see my comments below.

The "animate" energy that is life and existence. I believe that even our own thoughts are a form of energy in constant change.

I could buy this. It doesn't contradict any of my core beliefs.

If we believe in something strongly enough, it gives that thing energy and power. It makes "belief" or "faith" into something very strong. Our prayers and our thoughts can affect energy. Therefore, miracles CAN happen, but it is really ourselves and our energy that is doing it.

Oh, here is some interesting ground for conversation. We agree and disagree heartily on these statements. I agree that our prayers of faith have great power and energy - not necessarily toward specific events, but toward God, and inwardly toward our own understanding and acceptance of God's will in our lives and the lives of others.

Listen, I have prayed so hard and wanted something GOOD so badly - -something that from my limited perspective only seemed wholesome, happy, and good for all involved. My fervent prayers did not create the desired result. But how different my heart is - and my life is - now! In God's timing, I can now see the beauty of His plan for my life and the lives of my children. HIS ENERGY, HIS will - NOT mine - accomplished this and continues to work in my life. I only understood this when I understood submitting my will and understanding to His higher authority, and infinite wisdom and grace.


The Alpha and the Omega which you speak of sounds like a duality.

I'm sure you know that Alpha and Omega mean beginning and end. This isn't duality. This is a defined aspect of God's character.

I also worship duality, (I don't)

There are three distinct elements to the Yin and Yang symbol.

I love it when I find shadows of truth in other beliefs. Could this be a shadow of the Trinity? Or just another example of the sacredness of the number 3?

 

[Runewolf1973]

I've been watching this debate go back and forth between two very distinct mindsets and it's been fascinating. I don't see too much you agree on, but I can see one thing you have in common. You all love God in a way that has meaning for you. It's obvious that you're different ideas of God bring you each a great deal of comfort and that is beautiful. Thank you for your frank discussion, I have enjoyed it immensely.:yes:

You are very welcome! I appreciate the fact that you are open-minded enough to hear both our views on the matter. Thank you!

 

[Runewolf1973]

ALL things are ONE. By this I mean that all energy is one and the same. We are all part of it, and we are all subjects to it.

Sorry, but even after reading and re reading your explanation of this statement, I just can't agree with it. I do agree with some aspects of your beliefs (which I'll point out) but when you subtract what I DON'T agree with, then you'll see why I can't wrap things up in the statement "All things are one."

Our minds created religion and that separated us from each other and "God".

Some truth here. Religion and faith have some overlapping concepts but they're not the same thing. I am opposed to religiosity myself, even as a "liturgical" Christian.

Basically "Satan" is the Mind.

Sorry - I absolutely cannot agree with this statement. However, I do see a sort of "shadow" of one of my beliefs in this assertion. I believe that man's basic nature is fallen, and that man is NOT inherently good. Therefore, unless and until we submit our hearts and minds to God, our minds are fertile ground for Satan.

ALL of this energy has always been and always will be. It can never be created and it can never be destroyed. Does that not sound to you, oddly a lot like "God"?

Close but not there, in my opinion. I think you've got it backwards. Rather than my "God" sounding a lot like your "energy," I think your ideas of energy are less than complete ideas about God.

Furthermore, life can be destroyed. I don't believe in reincarnation, so I do believe that our earthly bodies do die. Sure, they decay and then plants grow out of them and worms eat them, etc. etc. But the essence of what made us HUMAN is gone. I believe our soul lives on, but our earthly body stops living. I think that the basic nature of our world is that it is slowing, decaying, in a long process of running down - and that it will end one day.

But yet all this energy that exists is constantly and ever changing. This is why I don't believe in "creation", I believe in "animation".

Pleasant enough idea, but of course you know that as a Christian, I don't believe this. It does sound charming though, and like many of your statements, I think it holds an element of truth - see my comments below.

The "animate" energy that is life and existence. I believe that even our own thoughts are a form of energy in constant change.

I could buy this. It doesn't contradict any of my core beliefs.

If we believe in something strongly enough, it gives that thing energy and power. It makes "belief" or "faith" into something very strong. Our prayers and our thoughts can affect energy. Therefore, miracles CAN happen, but it is really ourselves and our energy that is doing it.

Oh, here is some interesting ground for conversation. We agree and disagree heartily on these statements. I agree that our prayers of faith have great power and energy - not necessarily toward specific events, but toward God, and inwardly toward our own understanding and acceptance of God's will in our lives and the lives of others.

Listen, I have prayed so hard and wanted something GOOD so badly - -something that from my limited perspective only seemed wholesome, happy, and good for all involved. My fervent prayers did not create the desired result. But how different my heart is - and my life is - now! In God's timing, I can now see the beauty of His plan for my life and the lives of my children. HIS ENERGY, HIS will - NOT mine - accomplished this and continues to work in my life. I only understood this when I understood submitting my will and understanding to His higher authority, and infinite wisdom and grace.


The Alpha and the Omega which you speak of sounds like a duality.

I'm sure you know that Alpha and Omega mean beginning and end. This isn't duality. This is a defined aspect of God's character.

I also worship duality, (I don't)

There are three distinct elements to the Yin and Yang symbol.

I love it when I find shadows of truth in other beliefs. Could this be a shadow of the Trinity? Or just another example of the sacredness of the number 3?

I have come to the conclusion that you and your fellow Christians have no REAL answers to any of the questions I presented in this thread. All I've heard so far is "The Bible this, and the Bible that." You can't even prove that your "version" of the Bible is the one true version of it. There are too many "versions" if you ask me. Are they all worshiping different gods? Which one is right, which one is wrong? How can you prove it? They all sound much the same. They all proclaim to be true. This only serves to verify the truth in my own standpoint. ALL things are ONE. You have only faith, which is fine, but it is not enough for me though. Besides, I don't need faith to know that my "God" already exists. I can even PROVE that it exists. I SEE my "God" everytime I open my eyes. It is everything that exists. The ALL in ALL. Simple as that. You have your ways, I have mine.

Aside from all of this, I DO respect the fact that you can have such strong faith in something. It is an admirable quality.

At one time I was blinded myself and could not see the truth. I relied on faith to get me by. I began to question that faith when all I found was lies. It was then that "God" opened my eyes, and now I SEE "God" for real. For me, faith and religion are no longer necessary.

I don't have to necessarily "love" every bad thing that happens in life to merely accept ALL of what "God" is. Oddly enough, even Satanism has taught me something of value. It has taught me that it is acceptable and even natural for humans to "hate" certain things. I hate the "evil" that humans create. I hate the fact that Christianity turns everything and everyone that does not follow their faith into "evil doers" and "Satan worshipers". We are not. We are simply different. Even "God" has a shadow side. To accept the light, I must also accept the darkness. I must accept both the good and the bad that happens naturally in life and existence. If I choose not to, I don't have to succumb to the "evil doings" and "evil thoughts" which the human mind generates. I must, however, respect the fact that that "potential" for evil is always there and use caution and my better judgement. As humans, we are all "slaves to our minds". I must learn to control it rather than it controling me. Evil is not natural. It is something which is warped and manipulated. That imbalance is not part of what "God" really is. We created that imbalance. "God" is the balance of ALL things in perfect "animate" form. Sorry if this does not "fit" your belief. It is just the way I am. You probably think I am the Anti-Christ or something, but that's okay. I am not against Jesus really. He was a great person and spiritual teacher. I am against religious conformity. I am anti-religious. I am however, very spiritual and I walk with many spirits that you might call "familiars". They are my guides and my teachers. Everything that exists has a message to offer. Look to nature and you will find your salvation. Why are the animals still here living amongst us? I don't recall them getting kicked out of the Garden of Eden do you? That's right, we never actually got kicked out of the Garden of Eden. We've been here in the Garden all along, only our "minds" separate us from "God". Perhaps it is all just a matter of how you percieve things. You are out there searching for some kind of "heavenly" peace and "salvation", whereas I have already found it. Oh well........

I'm going to go worship some snakes now....I love serpents! Beautiful creatures of "God" they are.