JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
As how?
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Messianic Jews vs. Reality
- Thread starter CynthiaCypher
- Start date
- Status
As how?
Shermana
Heretic
What do you mean "As how"? Jews have traditionally only considered Maternal-line Jews as valid Jews, are you saying this is not the case?
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
Uh no. I am saying "as how" as in "as how is what I said meaning maternal lineage means nothing"?
Shermana
Heretic
I never herd a Rabbi speak on being pure blooded and others less. And I had no trouble being accepted as only being half
I'd like to know what Rabbis you talked to, Reform mainly?
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
Nope. Between Chabad Rabbi's online and Conservative Rabbi at the local synagogue. Also while studying Judaism, I never found anything close to what you speaking of.
Shermana
Heretic
What am I "speaking of" exactly then that is different than the concepts of maternal lineage and certain peoples being totally excluded as a "cursade race". Not all races were excluded, so you can't just say it was to "Keep the pagan influence out".
apophenia
Well-Known Member
BTW ... here are you words from earlier in the thread -
"The Israelites are the "chosen people", a nation set apart from all the others, a special "birth-right" if you will. You may not choose to accept it, but this is how we have traditionally viewed ourselves, that the "House of Israel" is a nation, and a special priveleged nation. Jesus compares the Canaanite woman to a dog, but mercifully grants her request after the Canaanite acknowledges that she's a dog. It's one of those things that are a bit difficult to get into without offending anyone."
Perhaps I am not so deferential as the Canaanite woman to whom you referred. Mind you, I don't consider 'dog' an insult, even if it is god backwards.
Dogs are cool. I'm not a species chauvinist either.
You haven't given the clarification I asked you for, which you could do directly.
Do you think that god has a racial bias ? Do you think that there is anyone inherently superior to me , or preferred in some way by god, based on their genetic background ?
That is what you are asking me to respect. Would you respect any view suggesting that jews are inferior ?
Of course not.
So it would be madness, even evil, to demand that I respect any view which is prejudiced against me on racial grounds. Surely a jew of all people would get that.
So please answer my question unequivocally - does my non-jewish status make me an inferior, or less beloved by god in any way whatsoever ?
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
Whatever Shermana. You don't even make sense, and are lost.
Lets get back on topic.
As put by Jayhawk.
I think "parasitic insult" is very harsh and uncalled for. But Messianic Judaism is nothing but dressed up evangelicals, who sometimes have a token.
Shermana, you must admit, you are probably one of a kind. Or do you have a congregation that believes the same beliefs as you?
Lets get back on topic.
As put by Jayhawk.
I think "parasitic insult" is very harsh and uncalled for. But Messianic Judaism is nothing but dressed up evangelicals, who sometimes have a token.
Shermana, you must admit, you are probably one of a kind. Or do you have a congregation that believes the same beliefs as you?
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Shermana
Heretic
Another refusal to answer a question, followed by an insult. Talk about "condescending attitude."
How about you start actually backing up your accusations when pressed while you're at it?
As put by Jayhawk.
This ignores the whole thing I've made a point about going back to the original Ebionite and Nazarene beliefs and how I even said I don't agree with the majority of beliefs of those who call themselves "Messianic Jews".
[/QUOTE]
I fully admit that my "Paleo-retro" approach to the belief (i.e. going back to the original 1st century Nazarene/Ebionite beliefs) is shared by very few. Hence again why I said I need another name for my beliefs since "Messianic Judaism" has been highjacked by Evangelicals. Zardoz will likely say similarly.
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
heterodox Karaite?
zealous fundamentalist xenophobe?
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Almighty God does not favour one individual over another because they are "a Jew" or "a Muslim" or "an Arab" etc.
He favours the righteous :candle:
The 'House/tribe of Israel" is no doubt blessed by Almighty God .. as is the "House/tribe of Ishmael" .. yet those that alter 'the law' of God, twisting it to mean something that wasn't intended (for a gain in this worldly life), will not prosper in the life hereafter, which is eternal (as is God)
Almighty God knows who's righteous (and who is far from that), and guides whomsoever He wills to enlightenment :candle:
Shermana
Heretic
Perhaps Levite can explain what this passage from the Talmud means, Baba Mezia 114b:4-5, this is not one of those fake verses from those anti-Jew sites, this is an actual verse that says "Only ye are men", in comparison of Jews to gentiles.
Babylonian Talmud: Baba Mezi'a 114
What's that all about? Is that a mistranslation? What's the meaning? Is this a misunderstanding of Ezekiel 34:31?
Babylonian Talmud: Baba Mezi'a 114
" only ye are designated 'men'."
What's that all about? Is that a mistranslation? What's the meaning? Is this a misunderstanding of Ezekiel 34:31?
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Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I have a legitimate (not a trick!) question.
Don't people whose Jewish ancestry comes from their FATHER'S side of the family carry the same genetic markers? And if that's the case, why does the ancestry have to come thru the maternal line to be "legit?"
Just wondering, as I've got Jewish ancestry on my father's side.
Rakhel
Well-Known Member
Rabbinically speaking, unless otherwise explicitly stated, there was no prohibition against marrying the women of these other tribes.
Ruth was a Moabitess not a Moabite.
Rakhel
Well-Known Member
Because you always know who the mother is.
Shermana
Heretic
Explain the ending of Ezra.
PS I have discussed the Book of Ruth's questionable place in Canon (along with Ecclesiastes) in other threads, though this is not the one to get into it.
Rakhel
Well-Known Member
Again, it had to be explicitly stated. The word "woman" had to be explicitly used or else the rabbis or leaders were only referring to the men.
And Ruth's place in canon is necessary. As it pertains to who or what a Messiah is supposed to look like, act, and be. Without Ruth there would be no David and without David there would be no Messiah. Jewish or Christian.
And Ruth's place in canon is necessary. As it pertains to who or what a Messiah is supposed to look like, act, and be. Without Ruth there would be no David and without David there would be no Messiah. Jewish or Christian.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
What I'm asking is this - now that we can identify genetic markings, why does it matter?
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