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Messianic Jews vs. Reality

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Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
Funny, I thought this thread was about whether people who aren't Jewish ethnically should call themselves Messianic Jews. I can see how one would WANT it to be about whether Messianic Judaism itself is a "Parasitic insult" to Judaism, especially for one who denies that Moses wrote the Torah, or that there are "blood purity laws" or that Canaan is a cursed race, and thinks that anyone who thinks Moses wrote such has "pathetic and disgusting bigotry".

I wonder what Levite would say about one who denies Moses writing the Torah calling his religion "judaism".
 
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JacobEzra.

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
Shermana said:
Funny, I thought this thread was about whether people who aren't Jewish ethnically should call themselves Messianic Jews. I can see how one would WANT it to be about whether Messianic Judaism itself is a "Parasitic insult" to Judaism, especially for one who denies that Moses wrote the Torah, or that there are "blood purity laws" or that Canaan is a cursed race, and thinks that anyone who thinks Moses wrote such has "pathetic and disgusting bigotry".

I wonder what Levite would say about one who denies Moses writing the Torah calling his religion "judaism".
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Is blood purity that important?

As for Moses writing the Torah, I thought it was that Moses was given the Torah from God while on the Mt.
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
JacobEzra said:
Is blood purity that important?
Click to expand...

Have you read the ending of Ezra? I wonder if Jay has either. You're aware that the Torah says to not marry certain races and people, right?
As for Moses writing the Torah, I thought it was that Moses was given the Torah from God while on the Mt.
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More Semantics games, do you really think I meant that Moses wrote it off the top of his head? Maybe I should have said "Scribed". Point being, I meant that Moses "wrote" was given to from Heaven. I guess I should make sure I'm entirely clear.
 
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JacobEzra.

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
Shermana said:
Have you read the ending of Ezra? I wonder if Jay has either. You're aware that the Torah says to not marry certain races and people, right?
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Yes I have. And what I have gotten from it, as with people I talked to, it is the basis for maternal lineage. Since the children with gentile mothers, were banished alongside the mothers.

But its been awhile. I do say, enlighten me
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
1 Kings 11:2
of the nations of which Jehovah said unto the sons of Israel, 'Ye do not go in to them, and they do not go in to you; surely they turn aside your heart after their gods;' to them hath Solomon cleaved for love.
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Joshua 23:12-13
But if you turn away and ally yourselves with the survivors of these nations that remain among you and if you intermarry with them and associate with them, 13then you may be sure that the Lord your God will no longer drive out these nations before you. Instead, they will become snares and traps for you, whips on your backs and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from this good land, which the Lord your God has given you.
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Genesis 28:1

So Isaac called for Jacob and blessed him and commanded him: "Do not marry a Canaanite woman.
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Deuteronomy 7:1-3

"You shall not intermarry with them: do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons. For you will turn your children away from Me to worship other gods..."
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Deuteronomy 23:3
No Ammonite or Moabite or any of his descendants may enter the assembly
of the LORD, even down to the tenth generation
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Nehemiah 13:1
On that day the Book of Moses was read aloud in the hearing of the people and there it was found written that no Ammonite or Moabite should ever be admitted into the assembly of God,
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I wonder if Jay would regard the following as "Disgusting and pathetic bigotry"

Jewish views on marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Orthodox Judaism's View of Intermarriage

All branches of Orthodox Judaism, both Haredi and non-Haredi, view intermarriage as wrong and refer to intermarriage as a "Second Silent Holocaust."
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Jewish views on marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
All branches of Orthodox Judaism refuse to accept any validity or legitimacy of intermarriages.
Click to expand...
 
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apophenia

apophenia

Well-Known Member
I posted -This thread is really about 'religion' vs 'spirituality'.

Originally Posted by apophenia
This thread is really about 'religion' vs 'spirituality'.

Jayhawker Soule said:
No, it is not.
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Yes. It is.

Because whenever a teaching is necessarily tied to a specific definable group, it is no longer about spiritual truth, but about group bonding. Group bonding based on theological notions = religion.

Further, a religion proclaiming privelege ( literally 'private law') or any kind of superiority based on genetics is the very definition of racism.

Finally, to assert that God is racist is IMHO abomination and not an idea which deserves any respect whatsoever. I say this in response to some earlier posts which asserted that jews are in fact uniquely 'chosen of god' and that some other races are in fact cursed.

This is not spiritual teaching, it is undisguised racism with the merest veneer of 'religious' justification.

I find it remarkable that a person could claim to be 'offended' by someone appropriating some of their cultural artifacts, yet fail to see how offensive it is to claim supernatural privilege based on their notion of 'racial purity'.
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
Finally, to assert that God is racist is IMHO abomination and not an idea which deserves any respect whatsoever.
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That's nice, so go ahead and say that you find the Torah's idea of G-d an abomination that deserves no respect.
 
apophenia

apophenia

Well-Known Member
Shermana said:
That's nice, so go ahead and say that you find the Torah's idea of G-d an abomination that deserves no respect.
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Well, go ahead and say that I am not your spiritual equal in the eyes of God.

Should I respect that if you said it ?

Obviously not.

And effectively, that is what your interpretation seems to imply. Please clarify if I have misunderstood you, but as it stands it seems to me that you are saying that you are special in the eyes of god because of a genetic lineage which excludes me.

That is obviously a racist abomination if that is what you mean.

Have I misunderstood, or is that what you mean ?
 
apophenia

apophenia

Well-Known Member
In general, I would have to say that I would be a miserable self-loathing soul if I accepted the idea that I was inferior to you in the eyes of god based on racial purity. So to expect me to respect that suggestion would be ridiculous.


I wouldn't respect anyone who stated that jews were inferior either. That would be equally racist.
Wouldn't it ?
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
apophenia said:
Well, go ahead and say that I am not your spiritual equal in the eyes of God.

Should I respect that if you said it ?

Obviously not.

And effectively, that is what your interpretation seems to imply. Please clarify if I have misunderstood you, but as it stands it seems to me that you are saying that you are special in the eyes of god because of a genetic lineage which excludes me.

That is obviously a racist abomination if that is what you mean.

Have I misunderstood, or is that what you mean ?
Click to expand...

Why don't you go back and take a look at the scriptural quotes I brought up and tell me what you think of them and how you interpret them.
 
JacobEzra.

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
apophenia said:
In general, I would have to say that I would be a miserable self-loathing soul if I accepted the idea that I was inferior to you in the eyes of god based on racial purity. So to expect me to respect that suggestion would be ridiculous.


I wouldn't respect anyone who stated that jews were inferior either. That would be equally racist.
Wouldn't it ?
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I don't think Shermana's ideas of such are even really Jewish. If it is, I wonder what shul he went to before converting
 
JacobEzra.

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
Shermana said:
Why don't you go back and take a look at the scriptural quotes I brought up and tell me what you think of them and how you interpret them.
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Most of your quotes are speaking about fears of being led away from the God of Israel. Not the people being inferior.
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
JacobEzra said:
Most of your quotes are speaking about fears of being led away from the God of Israel. Not the people being inferior.
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Oh, now this is about being inferior? When did I say anything about inferiority, other than Jesus calling the Canaanite woman a dog or that Canaanites are specifically called a cursed race? Quote me.
 
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