Metaphysics of Gender.

[Wandering Monk]

. . . A foundational question in the quest would concern whether Adam was non-binary or androgynous?




John

Or whether he existed at all. That should be you FIRST question.

 

[Wandering Monk]

noun
noun: metaphysics

1. the branch of philosophy that deals with the first principles of things, including abstract concepts such as being, knowing, substance, cause, identity, time, and space.
   • abstract theory with no basis in reality.
     "his concept of society as an organic entity is, for market liberals, simply metaphysics"

 

[SA Huguenot]

Indeed nothing in Creation/Nature is in essence perfectly other but is always a mixture of complimentary opposite qualities. Human perception and cognition is based on acts of discrimination as well as integration. To say anything at all we must divide up our reality into pieces even if we reunite them immediately thereafter.

There is a much better way to describe everything than to discuss long details of simple subjects and objects with this huge elaborations.
That is...
Call something what it is!
Call reality what it is.
You are a Man, a Woman, or a sick mental patiend in a drowsed state not knowing reality.
I am a realist and see things for what they are.
I dont believe what others attempt to tell me what it is, because I can use my senses to establish what I am looking at or what I am understanding when I read.
It is only persons with huge erroneous thoughts that would like to discuss something, but their objective is to change the true meaning of logical entities, whereby one arrive at ridicilous claims such as Christianity is Female, Communism is good, Conservatism is Racist, and all these psycological hoggwash.
Nope,
Reality is, Christianity is the religion where people believe God came to earth, died, and was ressurected from the dead to allow us the same.
Judaism is a religion where people believe they are God's nation because of heredity.
man is a Man, and a women is a Women.
Communism and socialism is bad, leftists are ignorant.
Conservatism is not racist.
So simple is reality, that one can embrace it with delight.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Or whether he existed at all. That should be you FIRST question.

Realy?
Jesus never existed?
i find such a claim ridicilous.
People knew the disciples, the apostles, the writings, the persecutions for the first 30 years of Christianity.
No one ever in the first generation after the crucifixion made any assumption that Jesus never existed, now why would you have such evidence 2 000 years later?

 

[sealchan]

There is a much better way to describe everything than to discuss long details of simple subjects and objects with this huge elaborations.
That is...
Call something what it is!
Call reality what it is.
You are a Man, a Woman, or a sick mental patiend in a drowsed state not knowing reality.
I am a realist and see things for what they are.
I dont believe what others attempt to tell me what it is, because I can use my senses to establish what I am looking at or what I am understanding when I read.
It is only persons with huge erroneous thoughts that would like to discuss something, but their objective is to change the true meaning of logical entities, whereby one arrive at ridicilous claims such as Christianity is Female, Communism is good, Conservatism is Racist, and all these psycological hoggwash.
Nope,
Reality is, Christianity is the religion where people believe God came to earth, died, and was ressurected from the dead to allow us the same.
Judaism is a religion where people believe they are God's nation because of heredity.
man is a Man, and a women is a Women.
Communism and socialism is bad, leftists are ignorant.
Conservatism is not racist.
So simple is reality, that one can embrace it with delight.

And bias takes on many forms...God bless.

 

[John D. Brey]

I think one can arrive at a different formulation if one takes care not to confuse the layers of cell biology with psychology and even sociology.

The fact that the male emerges as a disruption of the female organism's balance certainly plays into the intuitive idea of separative/cooperative, but the great separation between the biological reality and the psychological one should give one pause to make the connection between the two.

I dont see women as only feminine but they are potentially masculine. We may all be aware of the exceptions to the rule and even be able to perceive the exception in every individual known well to ourselves.

In fact, I see the association to be a real bias in perception but it is also illusory when one looks deeper. Human psychology is very quick to pick up on small differences and make them important to the point that those differences come to define a thing as wholly different when, in fact, they are really two slight variants of what is more demonstrably interchaangable.

. . . The most important hermeneutical principle so far as my examination of gender in this thread is concerned is the idea that just as in biblical interpretation, one's interpretation can't stray to far from the literal meaning of the text.

In an examination of the metaphysics of gender, the interpreter can't stray too far from the biological literalness of our physical reality. I.e., DNA, genes, genetics, are the literal text that no psychology, no philosophy of gender, no metaphysics of gender, can legitimately stray too far from.

That being the case, the fact that the ovum begins as a female, and thus, that the male is secondary, and manufactured, even a deformity of the natural gender, is extremely important to a true uncovering of the truth of gender. I would go so far as to say this principle supports my belief that Adam's original body was the original gender, and that he acquired his male organ in Genesis 2:21, when his labia, as occurs in the womb in every case of the conception of a male, were sutured together to form the first male organ. The penile-raphe is the natural suture that mimics Genesis 2:21.



John

 

[John D. Brey]

FYI:

The Talmud says: "... a woman is considered as one who is circumcised ... " Avodah Zarah 27a

. . . In the translation the most important word in the quotation is deceiving. Avodah Zarah 27a actually says a virgin בת is considered circumcised. Catholic scholars implied as much; that a virgin is gender-less just as a Jewish male is ritually gender-less after the ritual removal of the genesis of gender.



John

 

[John D. Brey]

The implication for this discussion is that women are not excluded from the covenant.

. . . Or that they are already part of the original covenant since their natural bodies are the default form of the human race. Every ovum is female until it's distorted through abnormally high hormone imbalance creates the demonic deformity known as the phallus.

The acceptance of the Phallus is immoral. It has always been thought of as hateful; it has been the image of Satan, and Dante made it the central pillar of hell.

Otto Weininger, Sex and Character.​

John

 

[John D. Brey]

I think of it as a return to natural wisdom, as well. But it's been such a LONG time that it's hard to see it as a return. And I think it will be far less superstitious, regardless. So quite different in that sense.

. . . Imo, the truth is in the root (etm ology). Which means there's no genuine truth unless it can be shown to have been there in the origin. All innovation must be grounded in the root or it's like a tumble weed blown, eventually, to oblivion. All revolution, innovation, "new" world orders, or bible interpretations, which are not grounded in the root, the origin, will succumb to the truth eventually.



John

 

[dybmh]

. . . In the translation the most important word in the quotation is deceiving. Avodah Zarah 27a actually says a virgin בת is considered circumcised. Catholic scholars implied as much; that a virgin is gender-less just as a Jewish male is ritually gender-less after the ritual removal of the genesis of gender.



John

Bas/Bat is Daughter... abreviation for Daughter of the Covenant?

 

[dybmh]

. . . Or that they are already part of the original covenant since their natural bodies are the default form of the human race. Every ovum is female until it's distorted through abnormally high hormone imbalance creates the demonic deformity known as the phallus.

The acceptance of the Phallus is immoral. It has always been thought of as hateful; it has been the image of Satan, and Dante made it the central pillar of hell.

Otto Weininger, Sex and Character.​

John

I agree...

At least, I think I do

Restated: The implication for this discussion is that a Jewish woman's ( Bas in hebrew ) natural body does not need to be altered in order to be included in the covenant?

 

[John D. Brey]

It would? Why and what, exactly?

(I checked out Wolfson's Heidegger and Kabbalah at Amazon but unfortunately it has zero reviews. It's many years since I looked at Heidegger and formed the view that at his best he was either unimportant or incoherent ─ though as an unrepentant Nazi-hugger, who could doubt his career? However, that tells me nothing about Wolfson.)

. . . Professor Wolfson is Jewish.

It's extremely ironic that many great Jewish intellectuals understand and appreciate men like Heidegger and Martin Luther better than non-Jews. Heidegger and Luther both had their anti-Semitic ways, and yet, nevertheless, they were two of the most brilliant men who ever lived.

Many brilliant Jewish intellectuals are aware that if you set aside Luther and Heidegger's anti-Semitism you get some of the most important and thought-provoking ideas ever put down on paper. . . It's one more tribute to the exceptionalism of Jews that they, of all people, study and appreciate Luther and Heidegger.



John

 

[John D. Brey]

Bas/Bat is Daughter... abreviation for Daughter of the Covenant?

. . . In ancient Hebrew, biblical Hebrew, generally speaking, a "daughter" is always a virgin such that the word implies both meanings. The technical word for a "virgin" has בת as its root. Which is to say that if the text wants to imply a "virgin" for a specific reason it might use בתולה; and yet whenever the word for "daughter" is used, generally speaking, a "virgin" is implied.


John

 

[John D. Brey]

I agree...

At least, I think I do

Restated: The implication for this discussion is that a Jewish woman's ( Bas in hebrew ) natural body does not need to be altered in order to be included in the covenant?

. . . And that the Jewish male does. And that's extremely important. Literally a key to one of the greatest secrets in the Bible: there has only been one male-member in human history that didn't have a penile-raphe. Which is a key to the origin of the true metaphysics of gender.



John

 

[John D. Brey]

In what context is Genesis literal? As an historical account? As an imaginal experience? As a story with psychological value or impact? Is its literalness found in our modern lives or in the minds of its authors and their contemporaneous audience?

And what if Genesis is as much a mirror as it is a substance? Where lies its literalness but scattered across the knowledge and experience of every one who picks up the story and listens?

. . . The literalness of scripture is the origin and criteria for any truth I claim to espouse. Which isn't a simple thing since there's no scripture until interpretation takes place. And interpretation requires the mirror/substance thing you noted. . . Still, the literal text, and the literal genes, hide the greatest treasures of truth in plain sight.


John

 

[blü 2]

. . . Professor Wolfson is Jewish.

It's extremely ironic that many great Jewish intellectuals understand and appreciate men like Heidegger and Martin Luther better than non-Jews. Heidegger and Luther both had their anti-Semitic ways, and yet, nevertheless, they were two of the most brilliant men who ever lived.

Let's leave Luther out of it. The achievements he'll be remembered for are the political ones, rather than intellectual.

As for Heidegger, as I said, I've considered him and formed a view strongly different to yours. So I'm curious to know what you think he said that could be called 'brilliant'. What 'important' ideas do you attribute to him?

As for your assertions on behalf of the intellectual achievements of people who identified as Jews, no argument from me. Viewed proportionately, it's remarkable. Of course that doesn't make any particular Jewish person a genius, or any particular gentile a fool.

 

[dybmh]

. . . And that the Jewish male does. And that's extremely important. Literally a key to one of the greatest secrets in the Bible: there has only been one male-member in human history that didn't have a penile-raphe. Which is a key to the origin of the true metaphysics of gender.



John

Lacking a rating for "oddly compelling", I rated this post creative. Thank you.

 

[John D. Brey]

Let's leave Luther out of it. The achievements he'll be remembered for are the political ones, rather than intellectual.

Let us not forget, by the way, the enormous respect Luther has always inspired among the Jewish German intelligentsia. Rosenzweig and Buber, for example, when it comes to translating the Bible from Hebrew into German, consider Luther as the great ancestor, the formidable rival, the unequaled master. Rosenzweig speaks of him at times in a tone of crushed fervor.

Jacques Derrida, Acts of Religion, p. 160.​

John

 

[blü 2]

Let us not forget, by the way, the enormous respect Luther has always inspired among the Jewish German intelligentsia. Rosenzweig and Buber, for example, when it comes to translating the Bible from Hebrew into German, consider Luther as the great ancestor, the formidable rival, the unequaled master. Rosenzweig speaks of him at times in a tone of crushed fervor.
Jacques Derrida, Acts of Religion, p. 160.​

But what 'brilliance', exactly, do you attribute to Heidegger?

 

[sealchan]

. . . The most important hermeneutical principle so far as my examination of gender in this thread is concerned is the idea that just as in biblical interpretation, one's interpretation can't stray to far from the literal meaning of the text.

In an examination of the metaphysics of gender, the interpreter can't stray too far from the biological literalness of our physical reality. I.e., DNA, genes, genetics, are the literal text that no psychology, no philosophy of gender, no metaphysics of gender, can legitimately stray too far from.

That being the case, the fact that the ovum begins as a female, and thus, that the male is secondary, and manufactured, even a deformity of the natural gender, is extremely important to a true uncovering of the truth of gender. I would go so far as to say this principle supports my belief that Adam's original body was the original gender, and that he acquired his male organ in Genesis 2:21, when his labia, as occurs in the womb in every case of the conception of a male, were sutured together to form the first male organ. The penile-raphe is the natural suture that mimics Genesis 2:21.



John

But since this is just a made up story and sexual reproduction existed millions or billions of years ago...