Mickiel's proof of God.

[richardlowellt]

Look, your fishing for hate, where no hate is there. Produce the post where I said I hate anyone, not just Atheist. I already know that you cannot, now you need to know that and not try to create hate where it is not. Dislike is not hate. Now I cannot reason with an unreasonable accusation, and willnot try to. This is just another reason I find it hard to communicate with certain people, they accuse and fish for negatives that do not exist.

I guess you need to further understand the meaning of hate....Hate, "To feel intense of passionate dislike for someone" in your case this would be Atheists. Do you now deny, after all these posts that you don't have an intense dislike for Atheists? I don't need to "fish" for negatives, you and your Intense dislike for those who hold a belief other that yours are doing just fine supplying us with all the negatives we need.

 

[mickiel]

I guess you need to further understand the meaning of hate....Hate, "To feel intense of passionate dislike for someone" in your case this would be Atheists. Do you now deny, after all these posts that you don't have an intense dislike for Atheists? I don't need to "fish" for negatives, you and your Intense dislike for those who hold a belief other that yours are doing just fine supplying us with all the negatives we need.

I don't intensely dislike, or love, anyone. You just need me to be your dartboard, someone for you to attack for not liking your way of life.

Peace.

 

[richardlowellt]

I don't intensely dislike, or love, anyone. You just need me to be your dartboard, someone for you to attack for not liking your way of life.

So you really didn't mean it in post #485 when you said "I don't like Atheists, never have" Or "I have to force myself to tolerate you" (Atheists) Or "Atheists irritate me, why should I like you"

What does my way of life have to do with anything? You think that being an Atheists affects how I live? You don't like my way of life? What exactly do you know about "my way of life"?

 

[Amill]

I don't intensely dislike, or love, anyone. You just need me to be your dartboard, someone for you to attack for not liking your way of life.

Peace.

I think some just get frustrated when you don't even provide a reason for likening atheists to children who abandon their parents. You dislike a group of people just because they don't share your beliefs, so you really shouldn't be surprised at the responses.

 

[mickiel]

I think some just get frustrated when you don't even provide a reason for likening atheists to children who abandon their parents. You dislike a group of people just because they don't share your beliefs, so you really shouldn't be surprised at the responses.

God is the parent you have abandoned. So you must live the rest of your life in defense. Defend why you did that, defend why you lack belief, defend why you would rather come from apes than God. Defense. I understand the pathology of having to defend, what it does to the human physce, all the roads it forces you to travel. Here you belief something that so many others do not, so you conversate on defense. Soon you grow tired of the defense and go on the offense, thinking yourself the superior. No matter what others say, you are convinced in your consciousness.

I too am convinced, but I no longer hold a need to defend. I don't care anymore, this stuff is far greater than I. Its out of my hands and I have come to accept that. I like honesty, even if it brings me riducle. I don't like lies, nor do I like the human ability to accept lies as truth, and then spread the lies. Thats what Atheist are to me, they have rejected the original truth, and are spreading their own fashion of truth. And they like their fashion, they like having to defend, and its getting to their ego, this struggle they face.

Just as it got to the ego of Black people in their struggle, Gays in their struggle, any group that had to struggle because of unacceptance from others. Atheist will gain acceptance from some, and never from others.

I will never, get this, never accept Atheism as a true valid way of belief. Never! And they can put that in their pipe and smoke it.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

So you really didn't mean it in post #485 when you said "I don't like Atheists, never have" Or "I have to force myself to tolerate you" (Atheists) Or "Atheists irritate me, why should I like you" quote

Of course I mean it, I have not changed in the last few days. I post in many places online, and the majority of my irritation comes from Atheist, their smug way of conversation. Their lack of seeing the Lord of Life, and Love affiar with themselves and their bent belief.


What does my way of life have to do with anything? You think that being an Atheists affects how I live? You don't like my way of life? What exactly do you know about "my way of life"?

I mean your belief and how it affects your life. Not your personage, not your personality, not your intelligence, not your characther, but what Atheism does to all these that you cannot detect. But how it affects those, comes out of you in your thoughts and conversations, as I have readily seen on display. You have shown me what it does to you, even if you cannot see whats comming out of your mind, I see it, and I know where it comes from.

But I honor your effort to stay away from the insults, that, after our disagreements, I can honor. Now that kind of thing is impressive to me in human nature.

Peace.

 

[Tiberius]

God is the parent you have abandoned. So you must live the rest of your life in defense. Defend why you did that, defend why you lack belief, defend why you would rather come from apes than God. Defense.

Atheists aren't answerable to your imaginary friend.

I understand the pathology of having to defend, what it does to the human physce, all the roads it forces you to travel. Here you belief something that so many others do not, so you conversate on defense. Soon you grow tired of the defense and go on the offense, thinking yourself the superior. No matter what others say, you are convinced in your consciousness.

We do not defend our position because of what we believe, we defend it because others (like you) attack us for having it.

I too am convinced, but I no longer hold a need to defend. I don't care anymore, this stuff is far greater than I. Its out of my hands and I have come to accept that.

And yet you come and constantly post in here. You posted your bit in the opening post. Why all the additional posts? Reading them it seems to me that you are DEFENDING your viewpoint when people disagreed with you!

I don't like lies, nor do I like the human ability to accept lies as truth, and then spread the lies.

And yet you have done nothing to verify your idea of truth except to see if you feel it in your heart. Hardly a good way to find truth, wouldn't you say?

Thats what Atheist are to me, they have rejected the original truth, and are spreading their own fashion of truth.

No, we have rejected your opinion. Don't get so high and mighty that you think your opinion MUST be truth.

And don't forget - our version of truth, science, is backed up by evidence. You don't have to take our word for it. You can look at the hard evidence and see for yourself. Impossible to be so thorough when it comes to your opinion, isn't it?

And they like their fashion, they like having to defend, and its getting to their ego, this struggle they face.

You're deluded about atheists, y'know?

I will never, get this, never accept Atheism as a true valid way of belief. Never! And they can put that in their pipe and smoke it.

Peace.

Again, you speak of peace when you do not show it to atheists. That is hypocritical.

 

[Amill]

God is the parent you have abandoned. So you must live the rest of your life in defense. Defend why you did that, defend why you lack belief, defend why you would rather come from apes than God.

You're under the assumption that people become atheists because they want to, or choose to. I'm not one to think that belief is a choice, but maybe for some people it is. It wasn't a conscious decision in my case though. I grew up in a non religious household but I was never pressured to be a skeptic. My parents let my brother and I find our own truth, and that's exactly what we did. I looked around the world, saw all of these religions, none of which without fault, and figured that none of them were right. Natural explanations for phenomena and for the history of the earth made more sense to me, and I don't see anything around the world that makes me think that an intelligent creator is hanging about. I don't think someone is helping put food on my plate but that doesn't mean that I am selfish and think that I did all the hard work myself, and don't want anyone to take credit for my hard work. I think that's what your grudge is, you think atheists just don't want someone to take credit, or to be in charge of them. I just see thousands of children that starve to death every single day an I DOUBT that a god handpicked me to get food or help with life. I just think I'm fortunate, and I feel awful for the 1 billion malnourished people that exist on this planet.

Why would I rather come from apes than a god? That doesn't make any sense. I am just convinced that we ARE apes and that we are related to all other organisms on this planet. I don't choose or want to be related to slugs, I just acknowledge that I am. I look around the world and see the evidence that we find, and I see that homo sapiens are just another life form. That doesn't mean that I don't think life is special, and that doesn't mean that I think humans aren't unique. I think that all life is awesome, so what if I don't hold our species as more important here on earth. I find myself lucky because I am the product of a ~3.5 billion year descent. Any change in that and I would not exist, so I do hold existence to be special. How does that view make me automatically untrustworthy and selfish? Now the majority of "evolutionists" are theists, do you think of them differently? What about people who believe in just a life force or that a supernatural force created the Universe? Do you judge them the same way you do of atheists? Where do you draw the line for who rejects the truth? What is the truth?

I don't like lies, nor do I like the human ability to accept lies as truth, and then spread the lies. Thats what Atheist are to me, they have rejected the original truth, and are spreading their own fashion of truth. And they like their fashion, they like having to defend, and its getting to their ego, this struggle they face.

I don't reject the truth, I am just not certain what the truth is, and I'm not convinced that an intelligent creator is the piece that fits. I certainly find the Universe to be odd and I'm not sure why it's here, but the idea that a creator made it doesn't make any more sense to me, and still leaves questions.

I'm not sure if there's anything anybody can tell you that will help you understand, but I seriously hope you can one day realize that people simply are who they are. People are a product of their environment. Their beliefs, thoughts, and ideas are influenced from their surroundings, and aren't consciously controlled or changed. Atheists have a worldview that's different from theists because they have had experiences that have molded their thoughts to have a worldview that is skeptical that this Universe was created by an intelligent being. That says nothing about how they feel or what they think of the Universe, or why they think it's here. You basically judge people based on their harmless thoughts. You see harm in their thoughts because you don't acknowledge that they came to their realizations the same way you did. You think they are consciously going against what you believe because they want to. I just hope one day you will have had experiences that help you realize that people shouldn't be judged on thoughts that don't pertain to the lives and happiness of others.

 

[Diederick]

I will never, get this, never accept Atheism as a true valid way of belief. Never! And they can put that in their pipe and smoke it.

Peace.

Atheism is not a belief, or way of belief.

Atheism is the realization that there isn't an answer for everything and only poses rational theories in an attempt to piece the lack of answers together.

Atheism is the lack of Theism, that is the only thing that unites Atheists: not worshipping some random Deity.

 

[mickiel]

You see harm in their thoughts because you don't acknowledge that they came to their realizations the same way you did. You think they are consciously going against what you believe because they want to. I just hope one day you will have had experiences that help you realize that people shouldn't be judged on thoughts that don't pertain to the lives and happiness of others.

Well I can understand this, and I agree, but I view people as being as they are, both consciously and subconsciously, because thats how God wanted them to be. We are products of our environments, But I view God as in control of the environment Amil. You simply do not, therein is the difference in our perception of things. I have traced " A God" to the root cause of things in my considerations. There is even a cause for our environments, many just think we have created the environment ourselves. And I know it seems to a degree we have, but I just cannot give humans as much power to cause as you have, I cannot. Things were formed before humans were Amil, we were not the first things to exist, even science agrees with that. So the things that existed before we did, are they powerful enough to have produced humans? I say no they are not.

Matter and antimatter existed before us, is the sum total of human existance then precomposed in matter? Now come on, thats a serious leap in presumption. Humanity is far greater than matter, don't you think? So now I am supposed to accept that The human mind, human consciousness, can result from things lesser than what greatness we obviously are? Thats like saying conscuoisness can develop from a rock that developed from antimatter, which popped into existance from nothing! I can't get to that, its just unreasonable. Its avoding the powers that be, because whenever matter came to be, the powers were there before matter combusted into being.

Something " Caused" all that is, I see that something as God.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Atheism is not a belief, or way of belief.

Atheism is the realization that there isn't an answer for everything and only poses rational theories in an attempt to piece the lack of answers together.

Atheism is the lack of Theism, that is the only thing that unites Atheists: not worshipping some random Deity.

Well I can accept these terms, they are reasonable, but I would disagree that Atheist are united. I view no human group as united, but thats just my view. I honor and accept the desire to piece the lack of answers together, now I like that goal, I agree with Atheist there, we should have that desire. My disagreement is the exclusion of a God being the possible answer. It may seem like imagination, overblown mythology, but I actually view the existance of " A God", as a very rational explination of why we are here. I mean it fits in my view of possibilitys, although Gods refusal to reveal himself to all of humanity has not helped the common view of searching curious humans.

Religious believers accept the possibility of God on faith, I have no Faith, so my determination has had to come in other ways. I am not a religious man, I don't like Religion at all, NONE of them. But yet I believe in God. So I stand alone in my belief, which is not to say that I am the only believer in God, no, I am not meaning that. I mean I look for God on my own. I will determine this on my own, or have determined it on my own, because its an ongoing process. I have used Archaeology, Atheism, Romance, facts, Science, all kinds of information and observations, but the root ingredient that cannot be avoided in anything that I have examined, is my own Consciousness.

And I want to go into what I mean by that.

Peace.

 

[richardlowellt]

I mean your belief and how it affects your life.

I can only say this one more time and thats it, Atheists have NO belief, so how can a non-belief affect my life. Your ignorance is staggering, you know nothing about what it is to be an Atheist, you know nothing about evolution, and your discriminatory.

You have shown me what it does to you, even if you cannot see whats comming out of your mind, I see it, and I know where it comes from.

Your insults continue, I don't know what comes out of my own mind but you do? You know were it comes from? You have no idea what's in my mind.

My conversations with you are over, do yourself a big favor and learn what both evolution and Atheists are all about.

 

[Tiberius]

Mickiel, if God is that which caused all that there is, what caused God?

You see, if something as complex as the universe needs a creator, then why is it that God (who must be more complex than the universe) does not need a creator?

And if a complex God doesn't need a creator, why don't we just say that the universe (which is less complex) doesn't need a creator either?

So do complex things need creators or not?

 

[Amill]

Well I can understand this, and I agree, but I view people as being as they are, both consciously and subconsciously, because thats how God wanted them to be. We are products of our environments, But I view God as in control of the environment Amil. You simply do not, therein is the difference in our perception of things.

I don't view god as being in control of the environment around me because the environment around me has not convinced me to believe that's the case. It still boils down the fact that I am just not convinced, not that I choose not to.

 

[Diederick]

Well I can accept these terms, they are reasonable, but I would disagree that Atheist are united. I view no human group as united, but thats just my view. I honor and accept the desire to piece the lack of answers together, now I like that goal, I agree with Atheist there, we should have that desire. My disagreement is the exclusion of a God being the possible answer. It may seem like imagination, overblown mythology, but I actually view the existance of " A God", as a very rational explination of why we are here. I mean it fits in my view of possibilitys, although Gods refusal to reveal himself to all of humanity has not helped the common view of searching curious humans.

God is, by most Atheists, not excluded as a possibility, at all. We just find that possibility terribly small, very improbable; so we first look at the better alternative. You must have heard this before, but it would be unscientific to say there definitely is no God, same as it would be unscientific there are no fairies or flying teapots. Practically everyone in the world is pretty sure fairies do not exist, and if they would have read Russel's hypothesis, they would think the same of the teapot. But God, is not different - apart from that God has so many people 'believing' in him. There is just as little evidence for God, as there is for the lack of fairies or flying teapots.

So don't say we disregard the possibility of God, we only find it too improbable to be worth the money and effort normally put into ground-breaking theories (of science).

Religious believers accept the possibility of God on faith, I have no Faith, so my determination has had to come in other ways. I am not a religious man, I don't like Religion at all, NONE of them. But yet I believe in God. So I stand alone in my belief, which is not to say that I am the only believer in God, no, I am not meaning that. I mean I look for God on my own. I will determine this on my own, or have determined it on my own, because its an ongoing process. I have used Archaeology, Atheism, Romance, facts, Science, all kinds of information and observations, but the root ingredient that cannot be avoided in anything that I have examined, is my own Consciousness.

If you say you are 'experiencing' God as part of your consciousness, I would call that Faith, especially since you're doing something with it.

And you're not alone, you're a Deist, if you really don't do religion. But if you've figured all this out yourself, how come you use Bible verses and are so blatantly Abrahamic? - be the latter with some distortion.

 

[mickiel]

Well one good thing has happened this mouring, one less Atheist to hound me.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

God is, by most Atheists, not excluded as a possibility, at all. We just find that possibility terribly small, very improbable; so we first look at the better alternative. You must have heard this before, but it would be unscientific to say there definitely is no God, same as it would be unscientific there are no fairies or flying teapots. Practically everyone in the world is pretty sure fairies do not exist, and if they would have read Russel's hypothesis, they would think the same of the teapot. But God, is not different - apart from that God has so many people 'believing' in him. There is just as little evidence for God, as there is for the lack of fairies or flying teapots.

So don't say we disregard the possibility of God, we only find it too improbable to be worth the money and effort normally put into ground-breaking theories (of science).

If you say you are 'experiencing' God as part of your consciousness, I would call that Faith, especially since you're doing something with it.

And you're not alone, you're a Deist, if you really don't do religion. But if you've figured all this out yourself, how come you use Bible verses and are so blatantly Abrahamic? - be the latter with some distortion.

Fair enough, you reason well here, I respect that. But I do not believe that Atheist do not disreguard the possible existance of God.
You ask why I use the bible, because I agree with it. Its soundness, its wisdom, its uncanny way of describing human nature.I see how human nature is so perverted in so many, so lost, so confused. Eccle. 7:13 explains to me why. Who is able to straighten what God has bent? Thats whats wrong with humanity, its creator has subjected them to carnal tendency, literally locked us into confusion, and we, of ourselves, cannot get out of it. Romans 11:32 explians further to me that God has shut up ALL into this strange behavior we call human nature, only so that one day he will free us from it.

This perfectly explains to me whats really going on with humanity, our endless confusion. And God wants this for now. He wants the confusion, the suffering, because you know, with his gift of eternal life, we will always remember what it was like to be human and without him. Its a curse to be without God, and we all are suffering because he has not revealed himself. Such a gift as living forever, the things we go through now are meaningless as compared to living forever in Peace and Joy with our true roots. But such a thing is unbelievable, we just can't get to that type of thing as being true.

But it makes sense to me. More than happenstance human existance, evolving from nothing, there is more to this than we know. I have taken hold to that hope, but beyond that, I have reasoned that God did all this, and science has proven that to me. Its been centuries of science, and they still cannot explain how we got here in a manner that even the totality of scientist can agree on.

How long will we deny our roots, its been staring us in the face for all these historical centurys. Yet we seek out other alternitives, in ignorance we look for something " Other Than God." I have considered many things, and all of my considerations point to God. Addiction to me is proof of God. God created consciousness and gave it life within itself. That life, without Gods guidance, has the ability to addict itself to ANYTHING! Without the guidance of the parent, the child will grab hold of anything on its own.

God knew this all too well when he placed us into an environment of confusion. He is teaching an eternal lesson to humanity, and such is his price for his matchless gift of eternity, we will be always convinced of his superioity, his Goodness, we, like no other creation of God, will have experienced for ourselves what Life, Consciousness, addiction to weak frail flesh which is devoid of God, can be like. Its horrible and degrading. I think this is what God is doing, moreover I hope its what he is doing, I am just not sure enough. But I suspect this to be so.

Although I do not know God, he has continually shown me why I am, as I am. And there is no escape to being how I am, he needed no other examples than me to myself. And I read these bible verses and they perfectly explain to me this prison of the earth. Yes, thats right, the earth is a prision, a giant incubator which holds the babies in wait. We grow but we do not grow. We think but we are not conscious of the spirit world of God. We walk around in the dark and believe we think for ourselves. Addicted to our own consciousness.

Peace.

 

[Tiberius]

Well one good thing has happened this mouring, one less Atheist to hound me.

Peace.

If you don't want atehists to "hound" you, why do you come and post where you encourage them to do so?

If you're gonna invite someone to the party, don't start *****ing about it when they turn up.

 

[Diederick]

But, don't you see why Atheists would claim there is not enough evidence for God?

Like I said before, though God seems to answer everything (for now disregarding that the God hypothesis actually creates a lot of big questions) there is no evidence at all to be found in reality. For a scientific approach, on the other hand, all there is is evidence and what cannot be empirically proven exists as theory - either widely accepted as undoubtedly true or as a possible hypothesis, more like philosophy than science.

 

[mickiel]

But, don't you see why Atheists would claim there is not enough evidence for God?

Like I said before, though God seems to answer everything (for now disregarding that the God hypothesis actually creates a lot of big questions) there is no evidence at all to be found in reality. For a scientific approach, on the other hand, all there is is evidence and what cannot be empirically proven exists as theory - either widely accepted as undoubtedly true or as a possible hypothesis, more like philosophy than science.

There is evidence, just none that you can see and discern.

Peace.