Wrong.
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Mickiel's proof of God.
- Thread starter mickiel
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How do we know that for sure? As humans we have a huge tendency to think we are the only species that can do that. However, we don't know that for sure and there are some things that animals do that point toward being able to think more abstractably then we generally give them credit for.
Which God? I think consciousness is only proof that WE exist. I don't immediately assume that the existence of consciousness proves there is a God. So I guess I would have to say I disagree with that statement.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
I disagree with that. Humans display shame and quilt in their consciousness, we forgive and have religions and science, animals do not do these things, they are uncivilized and not conscious. Only conscious beings can " Fantasize about their life." I certainly have stated before that I do not believe that any of the ancient cave men were conscious beings as we are, another proof of God. God gave humanity consciousness and thats when civilization truly began in Egypt.
Peace.
PureX
Veteran Member
I think that the degree of consciousness that other animals possess can certainly be argued. And evolution would suggest that it is a matter of degrees, and not of completely different forms of consciousness. But to take up this argument is to begin the thread off track. As I don't see how the exclusivity of human consciousness would have anything to do with consciousness being a proof of God.
First, we're going to need to clarify what exactly you (mickiel) mean by "proof of God". And then how do we begin to contemplate consciousness as such proof. Do you mean proof that God exists in some form apart from the idea of God we have in our minds? Or do you mean that God exists sort of like the internet exists: spread across many human minds at any given time? Or do you mean something else all together?
First, we're going to need to clarify what exactly you (mickiel) mean by "proof of God". And then how do we begin to contemplate consciousness as such proof. Do you mean proof that God exists in some form apart from the idea of God we have in our minds? Or do you mean that God exists sort of like the internet exists: spread across many human minds at any given time? Or do you mean something else all together?
MSizer
MSizer
the word "civilized" is a subjective one, relative to our concept of proper actions. To a ferret, bighting your brother's head for fun is the right thing to do (hell, that sounds like fun to me too). They are concious. They don't experience shame, but nor do psychopaths. Are psychopaths not concious? Of course they are. And so are animals.
Actually, civilization as we know it actually started in Sumer.
Also if you knew anything about animals you would know that they do experience things like shame and there is nothing more forgiving than an animal. They are definitely conscious and in many ways far more "civilized" than humans.
enchanted_one1975
Resident Lycanthrope
The words "I view" imply that you are stating your opinion. No matter how firmly you may believe this it is still an opinion, not fact. Facts provide proof, not opinions. As like the others, it is of my opinion that your views on this are wrong.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Actually my dog seems to exhibit all of the signs of consiousness that you are expounding here.
Also the Bible states (Romans 1) that everything created knows it's creater, implying that everthing has some form of consiousness.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
What can be the orgin of things devine? Consciousness to me is evidence of a higher level of consciousness other than our own. The human brain has not evolved over time, evolutionist have simply spread that falsehood. Consciousness in humans can be traced to the beginning of civilization and language. Things that are not conscious cannot speak and develop civilizations, thats why animals cannot speak languages. And the cavemen lived no differently 2 million years ago, they simply survived on instinct.
But now I do see language as having an evolution, in fact it may well be still evolving. What language does God speak? How does he communicate, does he have a mouth? Communication and consciousness are closely related, and both have been used to keep the existance of God in our human history. Human history by the way is another proof of God.
Peace.
But now I do see language as having an evolution, in fact it may well be still evolving. What language does God speak? How does he communicate, does he have a mouth? Communication and consciousness are closely related, and both have been used to keep the existance of God in our human history. Human history by the way is another proof of God.
Peace.
Runewolf1973
Materialism/Animism
Animals have much higher developed senses than we humans do. If that is the case, why should they not have a sense of consciousness also?
mickiel
Well-Known Member
It was discovered that a certain group of cavemen called " Natufians" in 900 b.c. were burying their dead in ceremonial graves which some view as a sign of consciousness, to which I disagree. These Natufians were not conscious, they could not narratise and had no analog selves to " See" themselves in relation to others. They were signal bound, instinctual, responding each minute to cues in a stimulus response manner and controlled by those cues. They had brains, but had no consciousness. Proof that the location of consciousness is not in the brain. And this shows that God created consciousness.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
MSizer
MSizer
René Descartes tried to argue that animals don't have souls, and so they're nothing but biological machines. He performed dissections on living cats and tried to argue that their cries and attempts to flee were autonomic and that there was no pain or suffering involved. If a guy as intelligent as Descartes can conclude such nonsense, then I'm not suprised people still think animals don't have conciousness.
Runewolf1973
Materialism/Animism
To me, consciousness is nothing special. It is just in my opinion, a form of action/reaction going on in the brain. All energy and matter has this action/reaction to certain levels. I believe that the consciousness that humans possess is just at a higher level of functioning. In a sense, simple action/reaction evolved into awareness/consciousness.
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Atreyu
The Devil herself
Like I said before you obviously have never been to zoo or watched an animal program about monkeys if you had you would realize that they do obviously have a cosncious.They may not be as advanced or intelligent as a human being but they do have a realization of good and bad, They express consern jealousy and other characteristics that determine a conscious.
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mickiel
Well-Known Member
Where is consciousness in the human body? Its not inside our heads, only physiological tissue is in there. Its not in our hearts. In reality, consciousness has no location whatever except as we imagine it. Some just imagine it to be in their head. You can move your consciousness into the next room if you wanted, or into another house, as you think of it being there. Being conscious is using certain parts of your brain inside of your head, but when your riding a bike, the riding does not go on inside your head, it has a definte geographical location, whereas consciousness does not.
This is proof of Gods existance, because we know we are conscious, but we, nor science, can locate our consciousness.
Peace.
This is proof of Gods existance, because we know we are conscious, but we, nor science, can locate our consciousness.
Peace.
Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
this is a really poor argument...
consciousness is a label, a way of seeing a certain faculty of life....
stating it is proof of God because science can't locate it...
is like saying mickey mouse is not from sweden because he doesnt like lute fish
yeah, uh....
come now, please expand upon thios an explain how you draw such conclusions
thank you
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Monkeys are not conscious beings, only humans are. Conscious beings can speak languages and plan for today and tommorrow, while recalling the past and remembering it while they write it down. Conscious people can get on computers and communicate with each other, monkeys can't do that because they are not conscious.
Peace.
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