Migrant children say they've been forcibly drugged, handcuffed, and abused

[BSM1]

@BSM1

@Revoltingest

This 13-year-old boy recorded his talk with the principal — now he's being charged with an eavesdropping felony

Hey look! This 13 year old boy broke the law and now is faced with a felony. Clearly he needs to be arrested and separated from his family!

It's that black and white! Throw the book at him, I say. Criminals never learn.

As foolish as this appears you are making my case. If the 13 year old is incarcerated he will definitely be separated from his family. If the 13 year old had children they would be separated from him. Sooo...you're saying it's alright to separate a 13 year old from his children but not from a grown man or woman. Talk about heartless.

 

[suncowiam]

As foolish as this appears you are making my case. If the 13 year old is incarcerated he will definitely be separated from his family. If the 13 year old had children they would be separated from him. Sooo...you're saying it's alright to separate a 13 year old from his children but not from a grown man or woman. Talk about heartless.

No, I was making an example of how laws can be flawed.

I don't agree that a 13 year old can be charged as felon for ignorance compared to an adult.

That was pure sarcasm. And proving my point that not all crimes are the same. Context matters!

I do not think black and white like some that choose to compare illegal immigrants to other more severe crimes.

But your like others prioritized punishing illegal immigrants over the welfare of the children involved. There are other solutions that should be considered. Children should not be pawns in determining policies.

 

[Duke_Leto]

Please note the word you constantly throw at us--"Illegal-- again that's-- illegal immigrants". Illegal means a law is broken. If I break the law and I am arrested I know my kids will be taken away from me.

Being Jewish was illegal in Nazi Germany. Crossing an imaginary line in the desert is illegal in this country. In neither circumstance do the 'offences' merit such retaliation.

 

[idav]

You understand what's going to happen to these kids now that Trump has sign the no takeaway order? They will be incarcerated with their parents (or whatever that person is) for the duration. Way to go, lefties.

That’s not a lefties executive order, he didn’t reverse his reversal of Obama policies righties.

 

[idav]

Migrant children say they've been forcibly drugged, handcuffed, and abused in US government detention

Disgusting, but I am sure the apologists will be around shortly.

Most reasonable people are against torture and mistreatment of people but we have a corrupt system of detainment even in my local counties gwho go through many class action lawsuits. People Inhear also don’t want terrorists tortured even. I highly doubt these children need to be out through harsh conditions for being a huge security risk. Trump again said that Democrats are causing so much suffering I get so sick of Trumps scapegoating and the people who buy into it. There were no concentration camps that I know of since WWII so Trump will have quite the legacy and anyone supporting it will have a reckoning.

 

[BSM1]

No, I was making an example of how laws can be flawed.

I don't agree that a 13 year old can be charged as felon for ignorance compared to an adult.

That was pure sarcasm. And proving my point that not all crimes are the same. Context matters!

I do not think black and white like some that choose to compare illegal immigrants to other more severe crimes.

But your like others prioritized punishing illegal immigrants over the welfare of the children involved. There are other solutions that should be considered. Children should not be pawns in determining policies.

Obviously your emotion is clouding your take on reality. Breathe.

Being Jewish was illegal in Nazi Germany. Crossing an imaginary line in the desert is illegal in this country. In neither circumstance do the 'offences' merit such retaliation.

No context to the discussion whatsoever,

 

[suncowiam]

Obviously your emotion is clouding your take on reality. Breathe.



No context to the discussion whatsoever,

You can't gauge my emotions through the web.

I notice you like to divert the topic when you don't want to address it. You've ignored several questions and then change the whole subject matter all together.

Well, Trump changed the policy, so now what. Guess that makes me right and you wrong all along. That doesn't still suggest that I and others like me are for open borders. We were only against the cruel treatment of the children. But I guess it does take some emotions to care about that so your quip is somewhat right.

 

[Revoltingest]

Being Jewish was illegal in Nazi Germany. Crossing an imaginary line in the desert is illegal in this country. In neither circumstance do the 'offences' merit such retaliation.

The comparison is awkward though because we all agree (I hope) that being Jewish
shouldn't be criminalized, but illegal entry should remain illegal in order to have border
security. The only question is how best to handle those who try to enter illegally.
Certainly, it should be managed better than is being done now.

 

[BSM1]

You can't gauge my emotions through the web.

I notice you like to divert the topic when you don't want to address it. You've ignored several questions and then change the whole subject matter all together.

Well, Trump changed the policy, so now what. Guess that makes me right and you wrong all along. That doesn't still suggest that I and others like me are for open borders. We were only against the cruel treatment of the children. But I guess it does take some emotions to care about that so your quip is somewhat right.

And you really believe Trump is? That's a total emotional response and irrational as well. Your turn.

 

[suncowiam]

I treat people as individuals.
My post was an appropriate response to yours alone.

You have bias and agenda like the rest of us.

You might not be as extreme but don't point the finger at others to suggest you're doing better or you consistently do so. You're very agenda driven especially on topics of guns and capitalism. Again, we all are but suggesting others doing so to try to weaken their position is just hypocritical.

Yeah, I'm agenda driven on this topic. I don't want kids separated from their parents. The focus is to ensure their safety and well-being. If it sacrifices our laws and borders then so be it. Again, I don't have a solution but I sure heck do not want kids to suffer.

Plus, what is the definition of an open mind in this scenario? To be empathetic to illegal immigrants as to why they are fleeing their home situations? Or to agree with the letter of the law, word by word?

So I said you and others are arguing technicality that being arrested deserves separation. If we assume the law is fair then sure but that premise has not been agreed upon. There are other ways to tackle this issue where we can still ensure the safety and well being of these kids. And no, I do not need to offer solutions.

 

[suncowiam]

And you really believe Trump is? That's a total emotional response and irrational as well. Your turn.

Uhm... He signed an executive order to stop separating children from migrant families at the border. Your reality isn't the same as mine I guess.

Opinion | Kevin Johnson: Trump's executive order ended family separations, but legal hurdles remain

 

[Revoltingest]

You have bias and agenda like the rest of us.

I don't know why you pursue this.
Everyone has their biases, yes.
I've never said otherwise.

You might not be as extreme but don't point the finger at others to suggest you're doing better or you consistently do so. You're very agenda driven especially on topics of guns and capitalism. Again, we all are but suggesting others doing so to try to weaken their position is just hypocritical.

Yeah, I'm agenda driven on this topic. I don't want kids separated from their parents. The focus is to ensure their safety and well-being. If it sacrifices our laws and borders then so be it. Again, I don't have a solution but I sure heck do not want kids to suffer.

Plus, what is the definition of an open mind in this scenario? To be empathetic to illegal immigrants as to why they are fleeing their home situations? Or to agree with the letter of the law, word by word?

So I said you and others are arguing technicality that being arrested deserves separation. If we assume the law is fair then sure but that premise has not been agreed upon. There are other ways to tackle this issue where we can still ensure the safety and well being of these kids. And no, I do not need to offer solutions.

You incorrectly attribute the word "deserve" to me.
I recommend reading the words I post, & not changing them.
That would change my meaning.

 

[Underhill]

Unless it is the second, or subsequent, crossing attempt, then it is a felony (or if there are other actionable crimes involved, like drug smuggling).

And what happens to those that are asking for asylum at our border? They are held until a hearing can determine if they qualify. This could take years. What do we do with the kids during that time? Evidently you want them to stay incarcerated with their parents during this time. But aren't you really saying "Let's let them in and to hell with our laws"? Again, these folks can apply for asylum in various places in Mexico without the fear of having whatever minor that's with them taken away. You're being played.

They could. And Asylum would be denied. So your point is mute. It's like saying a drug addict could go to CVS to get his heroin.

 

[suncowiam]

Please note the word you constantly throw at us--"Illegal-- again that's-- illegal immigrants". Illegal means a law is broken. If I break the law and I am arrested I know my kids will be taken away from me.

And this point is where it becomes strange.
We hear no objections when it's done to citizens within the country.

You made the equivalence of US criminals and illegal immigrants and why they deserved separation from this comment.

Possibly you should at least take responsibility of your actions and words.

What I pursue is my business.

You play like you're indepedent and make claims that you're not a Trump supporter but your actions speak much louder than what you've professed. Particularly if you voted him and will vote for him again.

 

[Revoltingest]

You made the equivalence of US criminals and illegal immigrants and why they deserved separation from this comment.

This should help clarify the crime of illegal entry....
Is it a Crime to Enter The U.S. Illegally? - AllLaw.com
So the issues really are....
- Should it be illegal? (That's up to Congress.)
- How best to handle those who enter illegally?

Possibly you should at least take responsibility of your actions and words.

Who says I don't?

What I pursue is my business.

And I may question it when you post about it to me.

You play like your indepedent and make claims that you're not a Trump supporter but your actions speak much louder than what you've professed. Particularly if you voted him and will vote for him again.

Do you try to make this personal because you're angry & emotional,
in which case you're behaving as badly as Trump would?
Or is it only that you fail at addressing the issues, & need to deflect?

See what happens when you're snarky?
You inspire a response in kind.
Now, behave yourself, & you'll see that I'm nicer.

 

[suncowiam]

This should help clarify the crime of illegal entry....
Is it a Crime to Enter The U.S. Illegally? - AllLaw.com

Who says I don't?

And I may question it when you post about it to me.

Do you try to make this personal because you're angry & emotional,
or is it because you're failing in addressing the issues?

I've never disagreed that it is a crime. But not all crimes are punished the same way. We should consider the context of the family here and how it affect the kids. To lump it all up in and follow by the letter of the law is morally unfair to the kids.

As far as I know, I've addressed all the issues. What haven't I addressed? The only personal part about this is that I was a kid as a boat refugee escaping communism. So if you think it's all geared towards you than I apoloize because the issue didn't start with you. If that doesn't work for you then you're just going to accept that this topic can be sensitive and might deserve a qualifying amount of emotions from some?

But again, what issues have I not addressed?

 

[Revoltingest]

I've never disagreed that it is a crime. But not all crimes are punished the same way. We should consider the context of the family here and how it affect the kids. To lump it all up in and follow by the letter of the law is morally unfair to the kids.

I agree.

As far as I know, I've addressed all the issues. What haven't I addressed? The only personal part about this is that I was a kid as a boat refugee escaping communism. So if you think it's all geared towards you than I apoloize because the issue didn't start with you. If that doesn't work for you then you're just going to accept that this topic can be sensitive and might deserve a qualifying amount of emotions from some?
But again, what issues have I not addressed?

I'm empathy challenged.
Some consider that a great failing.
But then I notice that they've little empathy for my ilk.
Ironic, eh.

Anyway, the main issue I'd like all to address is how to
achieve acceptable border security. There's far too much
complaining about what is, but too little discussion of what
should be.
A big problem is that government authority is always backed
up by threat of violence. The trick is to minimize use of this
threat. Is a "wall" the answer to minimizing illegal crossings?
It would appear to be part of an overall solution.

 

[suncowiam]

I agree.

I'm empathy challenged.
Some consider that a great failing.
But then I notice that they've little empathy for my ilk.
Ironic, eh.

Anyway, the main issue I'd like all to address is how to
achieve acceptable border security. There's far too much
complaining about what is, but too little discussion of what
should be.
A big problem is that government authority is always backed
up by threat of violence. The trick is to minimize use of this
threat. Is a "wall" the answer to minimizing illegal crossings?
It would appear to be part of an overall solution.

There is no easy solution. If there was, this would have been solved a long time ago.

All I'm saying is that we have to be humane to the issues at hand, whatever they may be. It would have been much easier to solve this if we could use more force but then many of us would just question ourselves.

I think we have to accept that being a great nation this will always be an issue. People will want to migrate here, legally or illegally. We just have to bare that burden but we can do so humanely.

[Edited]. My issue with the wall is I don't know if it will work. If it can be proven to work then it would be easier to accept.

 

[Revoltingest]

There is no easy solution. If there was, this would have been solved a long time ago.

All I'm saying is that we have to be humane to the issues at hand, whatever they may be. It would have been much easier to solve this if we could use more force but then many of us would just question ourselves.

I think we have to accept that being a great nation this will always be an issue. People will want to migrate here, legally or illegally. We just have to bare that burden but we can do so humanely.

I agree.

[Edited]. My issue with the wall is I don't know if it will work. If it can be proven to work then it would be easier to accept.

If the "wall" reduces contact between government & the illegals
by discouraging sneaking in, then this would be an improvement.

 

[fantome profane]

I agree.

If the "wall" reduces contact between government & the illegals
by discouraging sneaking in, then this would be an improvement.

If my farts smelled like jasmine, then this would be an improvement.