Minimum Wage

[Prometheus85]

The minimum wage is a hot-button issue for politicians and economists. Every time an amendment comes before the U.S. Congress to raise the minimum wage, advocates and critics pull out some convincing arguments to win over public opinion.

The most common argument in support of the minimum wage is that it protects the workers at the lowest rung of the socio-economic ladder.

Opponents of the minimum wage claim that a fixed minimum wage actually hurts the same low-rung workers it vows to protect.

Which is true? Arguments for or against minimum wage.

 

[Kirran]

The main arguments I have heard against the minimum or living wage are that it will lose workers their jobs because their employers won't be able to afford to keep them on, and that it will damage businesses if they don't have access to sufficiently cheap labour.

From what I suppose you might call a moral perspective, this seems to be investing more value in the interests of the investor than of the worker - why should an employer be permitted to give people less money than will provide for their basic welfare, and keep them beholden by handing them some small scraps out of the profit of the business, just so they can have the luxury of having their own business?

A business has no moral right to exist, from my perspective, if it can't observe basic human rights when it comes to its workers, which is to say provide for the material (and hopefully mental!) welfare of its workers.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Many opponents tend to think it is possible for anyone and everyone to get a better paying job whenever they want, which isn't based in reality. Those who can't, regardless the reason, should not be tossed to the mercy of whatever an employer is willing to pay.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The main arguments I have heard against the minimum or living wage are that it will lose workers their jobs because their employers won't be able to afford to keep them on, and that it will damage businesses if they don't have access to sufficiently cheap labour.

Socialism for the wealthiest of Americans, capitalism for everybody else. Where was my tax incentive to pick a new state to call home?

 

[Kirran]

Socialism for the wealthiest of Americans, capitalism for everybody else. Where was my tax incentive to pick a new state to call home?

To be fair, a massively disproportionate proportion of those who are involved in making the laws and crafting the systems are in the position of employers, investors and the wealthy, so are more likely to empathise with the concerns of people in similar situations than they are with the workers.

 

[BSM1]

The main arguments I have heard against the minimum or living wage are that it will lose workers their jobs because their employers won't be able to afford to keep them on, and that it will damage businesses if they don't have access to sufficiently cheap labour.

From what I suppose you might call a moral perspective, this seems to be investing more value in the interests of the investor than of the worker - why should an employer be permitted to give people less money than will provide for their basic welfare, and keep them beholden by handing them some small scraps out of the profit of the business, just so they can have the luxury of having their own business?

A business has no moral right to exist, from my perspective, if it can't observe basic human rights when it comes to its workers, which is to say provide for the material (and hopefully mental!) welfare of its workers.

Where do you work?

 

[Altfish]

The biggest bonus from increasing the minimum wage is that every penny of it gets spent and usually at local shops and businesses.
So those businesses also boom.
If you give tax cuts to businesses and the wealthy that doesn't happen; the extra money gets put in pension pots and the likes, often in foreign countries.

 

[Darkforbid]

The biggest bonus from increasing the minimum wage is that every penny of it gets spent and usually at local shops and businesses.
So those businesses also boom.
If you give tax cuts to businesses and the wealthy that doesn't happen; the extra money gets put in pension pots and the likes, often in foreign countries.

But you support remaing in the EU, which allows UK businesses the right to import cheep labourers

 

[BSM1]

The biggest bonus from increasing the minimum wage is that every penny of it gets spent and usually at local shops and businesses.
So those businesses also boom.
If you give tax cuts to businesses and the wealthy that doesn't happen; the extra money gets put in pension pots and the likes, often in foreign countries.

Unfortunately the price of labor is included in the overhead. Increasing the price of labor, especially minimal experience and ability labor, increases the price goods and services. Those in business also know that businesses do not pay taxes. Taxes also are included in the cost of producing goods and services, and this also increases the cost to consumers. Eliminating taxes on businesses will reduce the cost of goods and services allowing more people to participate in the buying process. This will increase the demand which, in turn, create the need for more manufacturing facilities and jobs. This is what should be the goal instead of this superficial and artificial charade of raising the pay of entry level labor.

 

[Valjean]

A living minimum wage worked fifty years ago. The working class was prosperous then, but it wasn't pegged to inflation and today 40 hours at minimum wage won't even get you a studio apartment.
If it worked then...

 

[Prometheus85]

Unfortunately the price of labor is included in the overhead. Increasing the price of labor, especially minimal experience and ability labor, increases the price goods and services. Those in business also know that businesses do not pay taxes. Taxes also are included in the cost of producing goods and services, and this also increases the cost to consumers. Eliminating taxes on businesses will reduce the cost of goods and services allowing more people to participate in the buying process. This will increase the demand which, in turn, create the need for more manufacturing facilities and jobs. This is what should be the goal instead of this superficial and artificial charade of raising the pay of entry level labor.

In actuality, this doesn't always occur because there is a limit on the ability for the business to raise prices, mostly due to competition from places that have a different minimum wage level. Also since training a person to any job costs money reducing turnover is another option other than the standard cut hours/jobs or raise prices argument that you presented. In fact, a University of Washington survey seemed to prove that prices don’t rise in tandem with a wage increase.

Early analysis of Seattle’s $15 wage law: Effect on prices minimal one year after implementation

 

[whirlingmerc]

The minimum wage is a hot-button issue for politicians and economists. Every time an amendment comes before the U.S. Congress to raise the minimum wage, advocates and critics pull out some convincing arguments to win over public opinion.

The most common argument in support of the minimum wage is that it protects the workers at the lowest rung of the socio-economic ladder.

Opponents of the minimum wage claim that a fixed minimum wage actually hurts the same low-rung workers it vows to protect.

Which is true? Arguments for or against minimum wage.

I do think there is a higher barrier to a full time job now with the requirements for expensive benefits

The min wage in Seattle and in some remote rural setting should probably not be the same

 

[Twilight Hue]

The minimum wage is a hot-button issue for politicians and economists. Every time an amendment comes before the U.S. Congress to raise the minimum wage, advocates and critics pull out some convincing arguments to win over public opinion.

The most common argument in support of the minimum wage is that it protects the workers at the lowest rung of the socio-economic ladder.

Opponents of the minimum wage claim that a fixed minimum wage actually hurts the same low-rung workers it vows to protect.

Which is true? Arguments for or against minimum wage.

Given the nature of business. There will be a drive for automation , and downsizing of staff to make up the difference among other cost-cutting measures.

Some of course get a higher wage but, the trade off is probably going to be in the form of even more workloads and longer hours. And it isn't going to be just the bottom rung workers who benefit. The raises are going to have a domino effect through the entire business hierarchy.

Already the McDonald's in my area has installed kiosks and eliminated staff.

 

[Jollybear]

The minimum wage is a hot-button issue for politicians and economists. Every time an amendment comes before the U.S. Congress to raise the minimum wage, advocates and critics pull out some convincing arguments to win over public opinion.

The most common argument in support of the minimum wage is that it protects the workers at the lowest rung of the socio-economic ladder.

Opponents of the minimum wage claim that a fixed minimum wage actually hurts the same low-rung workers it vows to protect.

Which is true? Arguments for or against minimum wage.

Abolish the minimum wage all together.

The free market will decide fair wages.

A wage law just increases unemployment.

"There are nine countries with no minimum wage (Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Austria, Germany, Italy, Switzerland.) Five of the nine have a lower unemployment rate than Luxembourg, the best of the other group. The median country is Iceland, with a 5.5% unemployment rate."

 

[Kirran]

Where do you work?

Zero-hours labouring on a farm, but I have an interview for another job today!

 

[Altfish]

But you support remaing in the EU, which allows UK businesses the right to import cheep labourers

But they still have to pay the minimum wage, so it is no cheaper than using UK labour.

 

[Altfish]

Unfortunately the price of labor is included in the overhead. Increasing the price of labor, especially minimal experience and ability labor, increases the price goods and services. Those in business also know that businesses do not pay taxes. Taxes also are included in the cost of producing goods and services, and this also increases the cost to consumers. Eliminating taxes on businesses will reduce the cost of goods and services allowing more people to participate in the buying process. This will increase the demand which, in turn, create the need for more manufacturing facilities and jobs. This is what should be the goal instead of this superficial and artificial charade of raising the pay of entry level labor.

So, you are saying pay them peanuts?
In most civilised countries, if people are on poverty wages the government subsidises them, so you pay both ways. At least it gives the workers some respect if they are not relying on hand outs

 

[Darkforbid]

But they still have to pay the minimum wage, so it is no cheaper than using UK labour.

Contract work is exempt from minimum wage law

 

[Altfish]

Contract work is exempt from minimum wage law

Depends what you mean by 'contract work' - certainly the Leavers (the likes of Banks and Tim Martin) hope leaving the EU will enable them to pay their workers less, by putting them on worse contracts.

 

[Darkforbid]

Depends what you mean by 'contract work' - certainly the Leavers (the likes of Banks and Tim Martin) hope leaving the EU will enable them to pay their workers less, by putting them on worse contracts.

'Some businesses have been disguising employees as independent contractors to avoid paying minimum wage, holiday pay, sick pay and other benefits. Uber, Deliveroo and Pimlico Plumbers have recently been sued for this reason.' The government has a bill in the works that aims to put a stop to this practice. If it becomes law, service providers will be considered employees by default. It’ll be up to employers to prove that a person is an independent contractor.'