Minimum Wage

[Koldo]

No, what I wrote was accurate. Every job is held by choice. There is no slavery in the U.S. A “hard choice” is still is choice.

Do you mean that 'do' or 'die' is a choice?
Then choosing to obey, even as a slave, is still a choice. You can't eat your cake and have it too.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Such fatalism. I reject your premise. Everyone is responsible for themselves and the choices they make. Slavery is illegal. Every job is held by choice.

I would argue choice, as "take this job or don't feed your kids or pay the bills" doesn't lend muc h of a choice to the situation. Also many places lack opportunities. That's why Indiana hemorrhages college grads. But not everyone has the resources or ability to pick and move. And in Indiana, even with a degree, the best possible pay I could get was just barely above the poverty line and far, far below the nation average for what I was doing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So kids can work.
It is a legitimate concern.

It is, but we also need to ditch this myth that humiliating fast food and cashier jobs are needed to teach them "work skills." Following directions, basic mathematics, showing up on time, those are things they should be learning in school. Which many schools are failing in.

 

[Audie]

It is, but we also need to ditch this myth that humiliating fast food and cashier jobs are needed to teach them "work skills." Following directions, basic mathematics, showing up on time, those are things they should be learning in school. Which many schools are failing in.

"Should"

Of possible interest, domestic helpers in HK
are paid about half the minimum wage
($4.50 USD for locals)
These women are mostly from Philippines.

All speak good English, a big percent have
college degrees. They get 12 hrs off per
week, and most of them send their money
back to their families.

If the mandated salary were equal to the
local rate, a lot of them would lose their
jobs.

 

[SomeRandom]

So kids can work.
It is a legitimate concern.

I dunno. We have minimum wage laws and everyone still starts working at like age 14. Or 15, depending on what the union negotiations are in certain companies. Often the kids still get preference anyway, since wages are age based. Besides kids can only work certain hours anyway (after school and holidays) and according to our fair work agreements, kids usually have strict legal limits on working hours to ensure healthy work, education balance. Which slowly relaxes as they age. So I always found the concern largely trivial.

 

[Watchmen]

Increasing minimum wage does not always equate to more wages for low income workers. Care and point: Bernie had to increase his workers’ wages to $15/hour (the minimum wage he is also preaching), but had to cut hours to be able to do so! He proved his critics’ point!

 

[Kirran]

"Should"

Of possible interest, domestic helpers in HK
are paid about half the minimum wage
($4.50 USD for locals)
These women are mostly from Philippines.

All speak good English, a big percent have
college degrees. They get 12 hrs off per
week, and most of them send their money
back to their families.

If the mandated salary were equal to the
local rate, a lot of them would lose their
jobs.

They get room and board?

 

[Audie]

They get room and board?

Yes that is the basis for the difference.

 

[Kirran]

Yes that is the basis for the difference.

That does change the situation! I don't see an especial problem with paying lower wages if full room and board are provided. Although I am sure there is exploitation of domestic workers going on in HK, as there tends to be everywhere.

Totally off-topic, but how are things in HK this week?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Where do you work?

Pre-emptively setting up for a gatekeeping defence, I see.

 

[Valjean]

Smith's invisible hand was Divine Providence...

Like slavery?
Left to employers alone, this is exactly what we'd end up with.

 

[Valjean]

Such fatalism. I reject your premise. Everyone is responsible for themselves and the choices they make. Slavery is illegal. Every job is held by choice.

Wage slavery isn't illegal, and many undesirable jobs are held by necessity.
Work or starve, work or live in a tent, work or lose your kids -- not much of a choice.

 

[Shad]

I would argue choice, as "take this job or don't feed your kids or pay the bills" doesn't lend muc h of a choice to the situation. Also many places lack opportunities. That's why Indiana hemorrhages college grads. But not everyone has the resources or ability to pick and move. And in Indiana, even with a degree, the best possible pay I could get was just barely above the poverty line and far, far below the nation average for what I was doing.

What is your degree?

 

[Valjean]

It is, but we also need to ditch this myth that humiliating fast food and cashier jobs are needed to teach them "work skills." Following directions, basic mathematics, showing up on time, those are things they should be learning in school. Which many schools are failing in.

These "temporary" jobs often turn into careers, these days. Many of them aren't held by kids, but by adults or the elderly. even by people with graduate degrees who couldn't find employment elsewhere.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What is your degree?

Psychology.

 

[Shad]

Psychology.

The state must have a disaster of a medical/health system then. Geez

 

[Valjean]

That does change the situation! I don't see an especial problem with paying lower wages if full room and board are provided. Although I am sure there is exploitation of domestic workers going on in HK, as there tends to be everywhere.

Totally off-topic, but how are things in HK this week?

Slaves got room and board.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The state must have a disaster of a medical/health system then. Geez

It actually does. Ever since my first serious knee injury at 17 (torn ACL), before I started having weight problems, doctors were reluctant to work on me for this reason or that. My insomnia has went for many years untreated, and despite efforts on my part to discuss various symptoms I have at least one or two undiagnosed conditions because no one wanted to discuss or talk about my symptoms as a whole. As for what's there, in regards to mental health, it's basically a job desert for clinicians. Which means clients have slim pickings when seeking care.
In California things are very different. Doctors are willing to talk and treat me, and there are more resources for health care, both as a patient and provider.
And it's not just healthcare. Last I checked, Indiana loses approximately half of all it's college grads, with the greatest losses coming from engineering students, with 75% of those grads leaving state.

 

[Shad]

It actually does. Ever since my first serious knee injury at 17 (torn ACL), before I started having weight problems, doctors were reluctant to work on me for this reason or that. My insomnia has went for many years untreated, and despite efforts on my part to discuss various symptoms I have at least one or two undiagnosed conditions because no one wanted to discuss or talk about my symptoms as a whole. As for what's there, in regards to mental health, it's basically a job desert for clinicians. Which means clients have slim pickings when seeking care.
In California things are very different. Doctors are willing to talk and treat men, and there are more resources for health care, both as a patient and provider.
And it's not just healthcare. Last I checked, Indiana loses approximately half of all it's college grads, with the greatest losses coming from engineering students, with 75% of those grads leaving state.

Honestly look at immigration to Canada. Medical professionals are in high demand with reasonable wages under a government run system. You could be fast tracked just by profession alone.

Reasonable is about 120k a year CDN. Workload is a variable.

 

[Kirran]

Slaves got room and board.

Yeah, that's true. But still, I think it can change things.