Miracles

[Kenny]

@KenS: Aha I see. I have a nice example of that. My neighbour, female 25, fell of horse. kind of broke something in her back. Not fatal, but could not lift stuff. I told her "come, lets go to this healing session". She said "No I don't believe in this". Sometimes I don't give up easy. So I kept bugging her with this. Finally she went with me (probably to get me silent). Hundreds of people. Christian healer walks up to her asking what her problem is, with tears in her eyes she explained. Praying. Healed. Next day she was lifting 25kg stones in the garden. I thought "don't know if that is smart". But I know also when to shut up. She is healed.

Reminds me of an old friend, which I have lost contact with due to life's movements, who broke her back skiing. Doctors tried two bridges on her back some 40 years ago (when science didn't have as many answers). Both bridges failed and her diagnoses was "no babies and don't lift anything weighing more that 5 lbs".

Believing for a miracle, she went to a miracle service and (supposedly) nothing happened. Going back to her hotel she started weeping and crying as she fell to the floor. After about 5 minutes she stopped and said to herself (according to what she said) - she realized she had no more pain. She got up, moved and still no pain. Went back to John Hopkins and the doctors wrote "We can't explain this, but your back is perfectly normal. We can only call it a miracle".

Two babies later and loving the push of a lawnmower, she is a believer in miracles (as am I)

 

[Trackdayguy]

Reminds me of an old friend, which I have lost contact with due to life's movements, who broke her back skiing. Doctors tried two bridges on her back some 40 years ago (when science didn't have as many answers). Both bridges failed and her diagnoses was "no babies and don't lift anything weighing more that 5 lbs".

Believing for a miracle, she went to a miracle service and (supposedly) nothing happened. Going back to her hotel she started weeping and crying as she fell to the floor. After about 5 minutes she stopped and said to herself (according to what she said) - she realized she had no more pain. She got up, moved and still no pain. Went back to John Hopkins and the doctors wrote "We can't explain this, but your back is perfectly normal. We can only call it a miracle".

Two babies later and loving the push of a lawnmower, she is a believer in miracles (as am I)

Great story.

 

[stvdv]

@KenS: When my neighbour started crying during the healing I had the feeling "Now she will be healed". I have not been able to cry since I was 5 years. So I still have some major challenges. Once I got very, very angry after my father punched me knockout in the face. I got up, gave 3 kicks into his legs (I don't like to hurt in the face), but showing him he went to far (first time I dared to go against him being 48). Afterwards I was healed of a back-injury I had already for a long time. Tried many different things, none worked. So I have the feeling healing has a lot to to with flow of emotions. Anger, Fear, Sadness. Being true to your emotions.

 

[ecco]

Miracle - Wikipedia

Then I guess you might want to consider changing what your listening to. Scepticism is a choice as is what your listening to, if you dont like it I suggest you listen to something else.

Nice try at a failed dodge. I have listened to a lot of things over many years. Skepticism is not a choice as you would imply. Skepticism is a result of listening to many, many different things. Skepticism is a result of investigating and evaluating the results of investigations.

Regarding miracles: No evidence. Repeated investigations have shown no unexplained phenomena. Repeated investigations have shown fraud.
Regarding the healing power of prayers: No evidence. Quite the contrary. Repeated investigations have shown no effect of prayer.

 

[Kenny]

@KenS: When my neighbour started crying during the healing I had the feeling "Now she will be healed". I have not been able to cry since I was 5 years. So I still have some major challenges. Once I got very, very angry after my father punched me knockout in the face. I got up, gave 3 kicks into his legs (I don't like to hurt in the face), but showing him he went to far (first time I dared to go against him being 48). Afterwards I was healed of a back-injury I had already for a long time. Tried many different things, none worked. So I have the feeling healing has a lot to to with flow of emotions. Anger, Fear, Sadness. Being true to your emotions.

I can't help but agree... and what a horrible event to have experienced. My wife had an alcoholic verbal abussive dad who never said "I love you". A lot more to that story.

From what I understand, medically speaking, fear, unbriddled anger, hatred produces hormones in the brain that is actually poinson for the body. Likewise, laughter, happiness, love produces hormones that are health to the body.

Maybe that is why Jesus spend so much time on "forgiving"? Not so much about the one who inflicted the hurt but more about health for oneself?

I know that when my wife forgave her dad, our marriage did a quantum leap. Likewise for her three sisters.

 

[Kenny]

Repeated investigations have shown no effect of prayer.

I have found so many "holes" in those investigations.

For an example... they supposedly picked one group that had no one prayer... how do you determine no one is praying?

On the other side, they picked a group of people that had people praying. Praying what?

 

[Jean Valjean]

Most miracles is under secrecy in protestant nations. In protestant nations the children in sunday school get a medical degree and toil as physicians and learn to teach and preach medical science. In catholic nations the priests still hold the treatment of vaccinations and medicine. That miracles occur can be witnessed at some point of life by every man.

 

[ecco]

Its interesting how some people have the ability to take good news and pervert it with their own sick and twisted concepts.

I call it acknowledging reality. You call it a perversion by sick and twisted concepts.

I guess in the end each person chooses what they believe. For me I'd rather be happy and deluded than an argumentative, sceptic who only ever sees negativity.

You have every right to refer to yourself as deluded. No have no basis to refer to skeptics as argumentative and negative. Acknowledging the true nature of the universe is not negativity, it is enlightening.

What I can tell you as a Psychologist is that toxicity is all coming out of peoples hurt and woundedness. But of course and as we know the blind cant see.

When you worked on your degree in psychology, were you taught that people who disagreed with you were negative and perverted and sick and given to twisted concepts?

When you worked on your degree in psychology, were you taught that people who reject religious BS and reject a belief in supernatural nonsense are full of toxins and hurt and wounded?

If so, please share with us name of the school so that we can check out their curriculum.

 

[ecco]

I have found so many "holes" in those investigations.

For an example... they supposedly picked one group that had no one prayer... how do you determine no one is praying?

On the other side, they picked a group of people that had people praying. Praying what?

Didn't you read the study? They probably stated how they determined no one was praying and what the praying people were praying for. If the didn't clarify that, then it was not a very good study regardless of the "results".

 

[Kenny]

Didn't you read the study? They probably stated how they determined no one was praying and what the praying people were praying for. If the didn't clarify that, then it was not a very good study regardless of the "results".

Give me which study... I will show you the holes. Suffice to say, as noted by multiple people, prayer did have an effect.

 

[stvdv]

@KenS: Thanks for sharing. Just last week I had a dream in which I was told that my problem was a swelling in my head. When I have it operated I will be healed. Didn't want operation, but didn't understand what was meant. Your explanation makes it now very clear what was meant (no need to operate, but work on my emotional body).

I forgave my father but decided not to see him again, because he says "Son must be grateful to his father and should accept whatever his father does to him".

Since this decision I feel improvement. Goes very slow, but that's natural; evolution is slow anyway. Sometimes flash-evolution called miracle happens, but mostly we just have to sit it out. My nature is very patient, so makes it quite easy for me.

 

[Kenny]

@KenS: Thanks for sharing. Just last week I had a dream in which I was told that my problem was a swelling in my head. When I have it operated I will be healed. Didn't want operation, but didn't understand what was meant. Your explanation makes it now very clear what was meant (no need to operate, but work on my emotional body).

I forgave my father but decided not to see him again, because he says "Son must be grateful to his father and should accept whatever his father does to him".

Since this decision I feel improvement. Goes very slow, but that's natural; evolution is slow anyway. Sometimes flash-evolution called miracle happens, but mostly we just have to sit it out. My nature is very patient, so makes it quite easy for me.

Yes... going can be slow. Forgiveness doesn't translate into staying connected even as forgiving a thief who was a friend doesn't translate into letting him in your home again.

"Son must be grateful to his father and should accept whatever his father does to him". Certainly I have a problem with your dad saying that. I am a Christian, so in that context, I find no support for that statement.

I trust your healing will continue.

 

[stvdv]

@KenS: Thank you brother

 

[ecco]

Give me which study... I will show you the holes. Suffice to say, as noted by multiple people, prayer did have an effect.

You ask me "Which study"? The study YOU referred to. The study YOU stated as an example...


KenS said: ↑
I have found so many "holes" in those investigations.

For an example... they supposedly picked one group that had no one prayer... how do you determine no one is praying?

On the other side, they picked a group of people that had people praying. Praying what?

 

[Kenny]

You ask me "Which study"? The study YOU referred to. The study YOU stated as an example...


KenS said: ↑
I have found so many "holes" in those investigations.

For an example... they supposedly picked one group that had no one prayer... how do you determine no one is praying?

On the other side, they picked a group of people that had people praying. Praying what?

Repeated investigations have shown no effect of prayer.

Which one did YOU quote.

 

[Katzpur]

Most Christian fundamentalists will talk about miracles, healing and supernatural events, I did when I was in that camp.

3 months ago my life partner Chris was diagnosed with breast cancer, its in her family 7 of them have died of it in the past 40 years, so you can imagine the fear the came upon us all. Tests were done biopsy, more tests, 100% confirmed. A date was given for surgery 19th March. at the beginning of March she went to a healing meeting in town where several people gathered around her and prayed, I was there, nothing visible happened. She felt all along that she wouldn't need surgery. She decided to go back to the doctor for more test. 4 Doctors and a surgeon looked at the latest tests, NOTHING. all gone. She went back 5 days later for more tests, still nothing.

How we dont don't know all we know is it appears that something amazing has happened.

I couldn't be happier for you. Something similar happened to my father so I really do believe it's possible. I've never divulged the details publicly because it was such a profound experience that I didn't feel like listening to the naysayers.

 

[dianaiad]

That's nice. Get back to me when you can tell about "miraculous" healings of pancreatic cancer.

Or Multiple Myeloma.

Not, mind you, that I am entirely skeptical of Chris's experience. it could have been the miracle you think it may have been. OR...it could have been that the original tests were 'false positives.' Or...something else.

On the other hand, I'm of the opinion that God doesn't HAVE to do everything through 'supernatural' means. In fact, I rather think that He does most of His interfering through purely 'natural' means. After all, He's the One Who supposedly invented all those 'natural laws" and "laws of physics." Why do people insist that He BREAK them to accomplish something?

I would, were I you or Chris, just enjoy the reprieve. Oh....and have a serious talk about what she might want to do in order to prevent breast cancer, since she is so very much at risk. Perhaps the true miracle here is the wake-up call: not a cure, but a prevention.

 

[dianaiad]

I don't even know if happiness exists and I very much doubt I'll live to 70. My health isn't good, I'm alone and I'm suicidal a lot of the time. I'm not afraid of death. It's all just a ride.

I'm not afraid of death, either.
Dying sucks, though.

 

[dianaiad]

There was a time my ex didn't burn dinner. It must have been a act of God. There is no way she could have done this on her own.

Well, I think that the above explains why she is your ex.

Oh, not that she burned dinner....that you made fun of her for it.

 

[Trackdayguy]

As I have previously said belief is a choice. In the end there is no better reference than experience. Try telling the once blind man who can now see that miracles dont exist or the deaf man who can now hear.

In the end a miracle is something that non of understand, arguing that the God you dont believe in doesn't do miracles is a little bit like arguing that nuclear fusion doesn't happen because you dont understand. Get a life...