Mirza Ghulam Ahmad - Is he really Al Mahdi and the Messiah?

[Monotheist 101]

The Messiah is going to come during the Epic end of time Battle.. Or do you guys not believe in that?
The Messiah will defeat the Dajjal, Who did Ghulam Ahmad identify the Dajjal as?

The difference between you and I is, you say every hadith about Jesus, the Mahdi, end of times, Dajjal has been changed and is not authentic, I am not a Sunni or anything but I refuse to believe that not even a hint of truth would have survived in the Hadith. Where there is a smoke there is usually a fire..

This argument is useless. You guys have made up your mind, locked it and handed the keys to your Ahmadi Khilafa, A blind faith is only good when placed in Allah, not these fabricators... And then you accuse me of being like those who rejected earlier prophets, Im sorry to burst your bubble, but this guy is not a prophet, If he can do it, I know so many others can too. Would you jump ship and join the next prophets side without questioning him and his theories? You have shown your truly colours over the past few posts, repeatedly accusing me of rejecting a prophet of God..how can you be so sure that he was indeed a prophet? Mate the character of Muhammad(Al Ameen/Truthful One) would have convinced me contrast that with a Prayer Dueller and Person who prophecies deaths. Ghulam Ahmad is a Man too caught up in his wants and desires to be important and prove in any bogus way possible that he is a Prophet, when infact he has shamed the Prophet by trying to take away his glory. He is the real enemy of Islam..not me. He has tried to take glory away from our beloved Prophet..not me.. And you have supported him.. not me... So you are asking for divine punishment...not me...and you are like the disbelievers not me...

"Will you then take (Iblis) and his offspring as protectors in preference to Me, although they are an enemy to you?"​

(Qur’an 18:50)

Thus, have We made, for every Prophet, an enemy, the shaytan of mankind and Jinn, inspiring one another with, adorned speech by way of deception."​

(Qur’an 6:112)


"Whoever withdraws himself from the remembrance of (Allah) most gracious, We assign to him a Shaytan to be his comrade."​

(Qur’an 43:36)


"Satan has no authority over those who believe and place trust in their Lord."​

(Qur’an 16:99)

Looks like you have placed your trust in Ghulam Ahmad and not your Lord...Guess Satan has authority over you...

 

[Rational_Mind]

I dont know what fairytale you have been told, Why do u keep comparing me with the Jews and non-believers of Mecca, I havent compared you with other apostates have I?

Who are you to decide who gets divine punishment? I mean just because you choose to believe in this garabage doesnt give you the right to call whoever questions it a non-believer. I havent called you a non-believer or compared you with Mansur Al Hallaj, Have I?

Show some respect if you want the same..

And to the person that found the what he been smoking comment offensive... Open your mind, I didnt imply he was smoking anything bad..could be a ciggerette. Dont take things out of context, you think I meant something bad because thats what you want it to mean..

It seems everytime you comment you express ignorance. I mean to say is that you don't know what you talk about.

In bold I couldn't have seen a bigger lie. I know exactly how the term "what did he smoke" implies. We are not fools. I live in North America, this is a western term. Your conduct is clear.

My attitude towards you is sufficient to warn you. If you find it offensive that you are compared to Jews maybe you should heed to the warning of the Holy Prophet (saw) that said Muslims would become like Jews in the latter days. It is not you but your forefathers who have taught you things that are attributed to the acts of the Jews. I haven't made an attack on early scholars of Islam neither you, but on those who have lost track of the essence of Islam. Those who abrogated the Quran.

I have only been told the fairy tale that a man ascended to Heaven and even that he will descent with angels holding him. But I didn't buy it.

 

[Rational_Mind]

As for Yusuf Asaf theory...not enough concrete evidence..please link me to something scientific that dates it back to that time, and get me some non-Ahmadi and Non theosophical sources which hint at Jesus's travels to India, the theories I have come across hint at him spending time with the Buddhists..Why would he need to do that? What could Jesus possibly learn from Buddha, that God couldnt have taught him?
An excerpt from an article I found..from a neutral source..without the same hidden agenda as the Ahmadis..
full article on..
BBC News - Tourists flock to 'Jesus's tomb' in Kashmir

Unknown years of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your 5-minute research on google I guess is sufficient for this quality of Dawah. In research there is concrete evidence to suggest Jesus (as) passed away, since you have not bothered to research I think I should give up now as my attempts to convince you to research have failed so far. Jesus being in the sky has enough concrete evidence, except there there are no witnesses in history, and not a single verse of the Quran states that. Don't speak on concrete evidence to refute other peoples views until you have tested your own views.

Please spend more time reading less time speaking on topics you know little to nothing about. Making reference to one news article....

 

[Rational_Mind]

The Messiah is going to come during the Epic end of time Battle.. Or do you guys not believe in that?
The Messiah will defeat the Dajjal, Who did Ghulam Ahmad identify the Dajjal as?

Please research. As this is your responsibility. Everything is available to read at alislam.org. I don't feel there is a need for me to discuss such issues further as I am under the impression you are not genuinely interested. I would rather invest time in those who have expressed a genuine interest in Ahmadiyyat.

The difference between you and I is, you say every hadith about Jesus, the Mahdi, end of times, Dajjal has been changed and is not authentic, I am not a Sunni or anything but I refuse to believe that not even a hint of truth would have survived in the Hadith. Where there is a smoke there is usually a fire..

Completely false. Who has told you this?

Please tell me WHY WHY don't you read first hand sources. Do you understand why your opinion has zero weight? Anyone can have any opinion, but nobody cares if it is baseless. I could try here and express my opinion that lead is lighter than oxygen, but quite frankly if it is baseless nobody should bother to waste any of their time on considering it.

This argument is useless. You guys have made up your mind, locked it and handed the keys to your Ahmadi Khilafa, A blind faith is only good when placed in Allah, not these fabricators... And then you accuse me of being like those who rejected earlier prophets, Im sorry to burst your bubble, but this guy is not a prophet, If he can do it, I know so many others can too. Would you jump ship and join the next prophets side without questioning him and his theories? You have shown your truly colours over the past few posts, repeatedly accusing me of rejecting a prophet of God..how can you be so sure that he was indeed a prophet? Mate the character of Muhammad(Al Ameen/Truthful One) would have convinced me contrast that with a Prayer Dueller and Person who prophecies deaths. Ghulam Ahmad is a Man too caught up in his wants and desires to be important and prove in any bogus way possible that he is a Prophet, when infact he has shamed the Prophet by trying to take away his glory. He is the real enemy of Islam..not me. He has tried to take glory away from our beloved Prophet..not me.. And you have supported him.. not me... So you are asking for divine punishment...not me...and you are like the disbelievers not me...

LOL. Again, why should I even bother to continue reading. Does it really matter what you say?

There is milk inside blood. Just as baseless and false. You can pickup allegations from wherever you like, I already know you frankly don't want a response to it. Because, you can never be wrong.

"Will you then take (Iblis) and his offspring as protectors in preference to Me, although they are an enemy to you?"​

(Qur’an 18:50)

Thus, have We made, for every Prophet, an enemy, the shaytan of mankind and Jinn, inspiring one another with, adorned speech by way of deception."​

(Qur’an 6:112)


"Whoever withdraws himself from the remembrance of (Allah) most gracious, We assign to him a Shaytan to be his comrade."​

(Qur’an 43:36)


"Satan has no authority over those who believe and place trust in their Lord."​

(Qur’an 16:99)

Looks like you have placed your trust in Ghulam Ahmad and not your Lord...Guess Satan has authority over you...

Hmm... Although it is your lot that abrogated the Quran. Maybe one should look inside their own before coming out and making accusations.

Good luck.

May Allah have Mercy on You.
May he make you understand that you are raising the allegations that stand against every Prophet of God.

 

[DawudTalut]

........... will there be more prophets? Is is possible?

1-Theoratically they can come because Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) has the unique quality which no other Prophets share:
"And whoso obeys Allah and this Messenger of His shall be among those on whom Allah has bestowed His blessings, namely, the Prophets, the Truthful, the Martyrs, and the Righteous. And excellent companions are these." (Holy Quran 4:70)
Ref: alislam.org/quran

2-The specific news is about coming of A Reformer Prophet from his own Ummah as his subservient, titled as "Promised Messiah, Esa ibne Maryam, Mahdi" whom Holy Prophet s.a.w. called "Esa Nabiullah" i.e. Esa/Jesus the Prophet of Allah in second coming which is metaphoric.

Why Esa a.s?
Beacuse, Holy Quran tells that Holy Prophet s.a.w. is like Hadhrat Musa a.s. (i.e Prophet of Jalal; fast spread, like Sun), thus as after 1400 years there was a reformer (Esa a.s. the Prophet of Jamal; slow spread-300 years, like Moon) in Musa's religion, there was to come a reformer in Holy Prophet s.a.w. 's line, he is metaphorically called Esa ibne Maryam. (a Prophet of Jamal, Like Moon, slow spread-300 years)

 

[DawudTalut]

More

HOLY PROPHET (s.a.w.) SENT GREETINGS FOR PROMISED MESSIAH
The Promised Messiah and Mahdi is a promised figure who is destined
i-To reflect the blessings of Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him)
ii-He is to serve Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) in excelling Islam over all religions.


That is why Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) commanded to convey his greetings /salam to Promised Messiah when he comes. This greeting / salam from Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) indicates that peace and excellence accompanies the Promised Messiah. If this man was to be the same as early Messiah of Injeel / Bible, this special sending of greeting does not stand valid because:
i-- if this promised man was to come from heavens, he would have met Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) there and received his greetings, as friends exchange greetings / salam.
ii-- Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) met Messiah in Me’raj (Ascension) and said greeting / salam to him.
Thus the commandment of Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) to convey his greetings / salam to the promised man means that he (s.a.w.) had not met him. This was not ordinary greeting / salam by Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him).



REASON FOR COMING of PROMISED MESSIAH
He was sent as HAKAM and ADAL to decide disputes. He came on time, at the start of century (1889) at the time of chaos.


SUCESSOR HAS TO BE FROM UMMAH
“Allah has promised to those among you who believe and do good works that He will surely make them Successors in the earth, as He made Successors (from among) those who were before them; and that He will surely establish for them their religion which he has chosen for them; and that He will surely give them in exchange security (and peace) after their fear: They will worship Me, (and) they will not associate anything with Me……….” (Surah Al Nur, from verse 56 of chapter 24)


It clearly shows the Successors would be from the Ummah; not come from sky / heavens. [Promised Reformer is serving Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) thus is his Successor]. According to this verse, hadith says: What a state you will be in when the son of Mary will descend among you while he will be your Imam from among you? In another version it is said: He will lead you from among you. (Bukhari, Masnad e Ahmad)


DUTIES OF PROMISED MESSIAH
The doctrine that Hadhrat Esa a.s was put to cross to become salvation for the sins of mankind is not correct. The cross has become a symbol for this mistaken belief. The era was full of effects of this erroneous belief. The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) gave the title of ‘Messiah, Esa Ibne Maryam’ to the Reformer. It is a metaphor, meaning the Reformer would correct that mistake.

His duties are mentioned as the Reformer would be Imam Mahdi (i.e. guided by God), Hakam and Adal (Arbitrator and Justice) , breaker of the cross (i.e. corrector of wrong belief of salvation), pig destroyer (defeater of those who are metaphorically like pigs; who oppose divine message, stopper of Jizya (i.e. no more war), distributor of wealth which people would not get (i.e. he would distribute spiritual wealth but people would seek material wealth; time of materialism) (Bukhari, Ibne Maja, Masnad e Ahmad) …These ahadith are according to Holy Quran, because essentially these are the jobs which every Prophet does --- Reformations.


TWO VERY DIFFERENT APPEARANCES OF MESSIAH
Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) mentioned two very different appearances of ‘Messiah ibne Maryam’.
i-Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) saw in dream at night that a handsome man circuiting Kaaba, the man was of brownish complexion, long straight hairs with water drops dripping, he (s.a.w.) was told the man was Messiah ibne Maryam. (Bukhari)
ii-Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) saw (spiritually) Esa (Messiah ibne Maryam), Musa (Moses) and Ibrahim (Abraham), peace be on them. Esa was of red complexion, curly hairs and wide chest. Musa was of brownish complexion and heavy built with straight hairs. (Bukhari)


Clearly two different men with different sphere of works are being told here.
The first Esa was of red complexion, curly hairs and wide chest. Musa is mentioned there too. It means this first Esa was of Bani Israel.
The second Esa was of brownish complexion, long straight hairs with water drops dripping. He was circuiting Kaaba. This means this Esa is follower of Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) and the duty of second Esa is to defend Islam against Dajjal (the negative forces who opposes message of Unity of God which is raised from Kabba; Dajjal is anti-Unity of God, Dajjal are those religious clergies who are against truth and play tricks to bring chaos and killings on the name of God.)

 

[Monotheist 101]

I dont know guys, this discussion is a lost cause, we will never reach a common ground.

My core belief is that if I have faith in my true creator, that is the ultimate truth that I will be judged for, I cannot risk placing my trust in anyone other than the Prophet Muhammad and the Holy Quran, It would be foolish of me to do so with so much ease as you have, It would mean that I didnt learn a lesson from our history, that repeats itself.

Best of luck to you guys, May God bless us all and guide us on the right path. I will continue with the belief that I dont need "your" promised reformer to bring me closer to my God.

ا إِلَّهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

There is no god but Allah, Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.

I donot need anyone else. But if you feel the need than be my guest. Its risky business in my opinion.

 

[F0uad]

I don't understand on what basis they reject other so called prophets but they openly embrace Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is it because you grew up with the beliefs?
I personally don't see any difference between Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and all the other so proclaimed prophets, messiahs and mahdi's.

 

[Rational_Mind]

I don't understand on what basis they reject other so called prophets but they openly embrace Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is it because you grew up with the beliefs?
I personally don't see any difference between Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and all the other so proclaimed prophets, messiahs and mahdi's.

Name a single Prophethood claimant who came after the Holy Prophet (saw), did not abrogate the Quran, Defended Islam from Attacks, and formed a community that is blessed with Khilafat and is growing anywhere near at the rate Ahmadiyya Community (fastest growing Muslim Sect).

There is a big difference between the claims of the Promised Messiah (as) but you wouldn't know as you quite frankly are not interested. Name one book of the Promised Messiah (as) you have read and I will consider that you were not just fed lies about Ahmadiyyat while growing up.

 

[F0uad]

Name a single Prophethood claimant who came after the Holy Prophet (saw), did not abrogate the Quran, Defended Islam from Attacks, and formed a community that is blessed with Khilafat and is growing anywhere near at the rate Ahmadiyya Community (fastest growing Muslim Sect).

What this is all nonsense if he did defend Islam why create one more sect?
Where is hes Khaliphate? Please show me where he established a Chaliphate, he was not even a governor or a major of a city or village.

Fastest growing Muslim sect maybe according to your references but my references say that Sunni Islam is growing faster.

There is a big difference between the claims of the Promised Messiah (as) but you wouldn't know as you quite frankly are not interested. Name one book of the Promised Messiah (as) you have read and I will consider that you were not just fed lies about Ahmadiyyat while growing up.

Stop making assumptions about me when you don't know me, do you really think i knew anything about the Ahmadiy sect before i came on this forum? I never read Anti-Ahmadiy sources only Pro-Ahmadiy sources that just contradict the beliefs and views i have of Islam.


Ill ask my question again since you have not addressed it, why not follow other so called Prophets and Messiahs or Mahdi's who can also use the Quran or hadith ''out of context'' to support there claims?

 

[Rational_Mind]

What this is all nonsense if he did defend Islam why create one more sect?

Allah (swt) planted the seed for a community of believers at the hands of the Promised Messiah (as). Meanwhile other Sunni Muslims formed a sect over whether the Holy Prophet (saw) is Bashr or Noor. Another one formed a sect over whether one should raise there finger in salat. etc...etc.. The difference is that this community was founded with the purpose to revive the true spirit of Islam which has essentially been lost among the vast sects. Hence, this is why Ahmadiyyat is the One True Sect (in our view). It is different from any other.

Where is hes Khaliphate? Please show me where he established a Chaliphate, he was not even a governor or a major of a city or village.

I am talking about Khilafat as was established after the Holy Prophet (saw) with the successors Hazrat Abu Bakr (ra), Hazrat Uthman (ra), Hazrat Umar (ra), and Hazrat Ali (ra). Not Caliphate..

Khilafat and Caliphate

Fastest growing Muslim sect maybe according to your references but my references say that Sunni Islam is growing faster.

I am referring to independent sources, meaning not an Ahmadiyya Research Publication but rather a Non-Muslim source that wouldn't be as biased as a Muslim source due to lack of conflict of interest. Also "Sunni" identifier is rather vague as we know that it is not one sect. Ahmadi Muslims are also Sunni Muslims.

Ahmadiyya Fastest Growing Sect

Stop making assumptions about me when you don't know me, do you really think i knew anything about the Ahmadiy sect before i came on this forum? I never read Anti-Ahmadiy sources only Pro-Ahmadiy sources that just contradict the beliefs and views i have of Islam.

Okay, I apologize. Please name a single book of the Promised Messiah (as) you read before rejecting his claim. I have to commend you on stating that some of our view contradict you views on Islam rather then stating they contradict Islam. Which is why I would advise you to further research into our views and see how closely linked they are with the Quran, Sunnah, and Hadith. Everyone firmly believes they follow these three sources, if they truly did there wouldn't be such divisions as exist today. Hence, the Promised Messiah (as) was sent by God to resolve these divisions in Islam. Under Gods blessing this community is growing and absorbing converts from all other Muslim Sects.

Most beautifully the Promised Messiah (as) writes:

The time demanded the Messiah and no one else. Had I not come, someone else would have come in my place.

Which explains that he stated that his claim can be proven by the state of the World at his arrival. Before his coming many many Muslim Saints had stated his coming was near, they knew it was time. They also had revelations from God about his coming just as Allah (swt) reveals to Saints before the coming of any Prophet (as). Just as the Jews received revelations that the Holy Prophet (saw) emergence was near and many Saints migrated to Mecca to await his arrival.

Ill ask my question again since you have not addressed it, why not follow other so called Prophets and Messiahs or Mahdi's who can also use the Quran or hadith ''out of context'' to support there claims?

Like I have stated before the Quran cannot be used "out of context". I also demonstrated that Hadith all indicate the truth of the Promised Messiah (as) claims. You have not openly addressed my questions about the lack of connection between your views and the Hadith you propose supporting them. As it appears, your views on coming of Isa (as) are rather those that you acquired from others and you seem to see things that contradict the two most Authentic Books of Hadith. Most of all, you have not acknowledge the proof I outline in the Quran and even asked why you are avoiding it.

I hope you take more time to study Ahmadiyyat and you will realize why Ahmadi Muslims accepted the Promised Messiah (as), it is the same reason mankind accepted true Prophets in the past, there is a difference between false claimants and true claimants. The most obvious being, divine support. At the time of the Promised Messiah (as) his enemies are on record to have stated that his community would not last after his death as it would come upon divine punishment, today those people have passed away and it is all to clear that Ahmadiyyat has reached the corners of the Earth (200+ countries), and even further through the first 24/7 "Dawah" Channel ever made.

Peace be Upon You,

 

[Monotheist 101]

What this is all nonsense if he did defend Islam why create one more sect?
Where is hes Khaliphate? Please show me where he established a Chaliphate, he was not even a governor or a major of a city or village.

Fastest growing Muslim sect maybe according to your references but my references say that Sunni Islam is growing faster.


Stop making assumptions about me when you don't know me, do you really think i knew anything about the Ahmadiy sect before i came on this forum? I never read Anti-Ahmadiy sources only Pro-Ahmadiy sources that just contradict the beliefs and views i have of Islam.


Ill ask my question again since you have not addressed it, why not follow other so called Prophets and Messiahs or Mahdi's who can also use the Quran or hadith ''out of context'' to support there claims?

Bro I think this is a lost cause..there is no point in arguing with engraved emotions..
You are right according to neutral sources..Sunni Islam is the fastest growing sect..I believe the Sunnis are Good representatives of Islam..but they should loosen their grip on hadith/bukhari and tighten their grip on the Quran..

What I mean to say is..societies/cultures/norms change over time that is part of how the world works..but the ultimate truth has not and will not change which is..God is One he has always been One. With that belief I place my trust in his promise to always protect the Quran..he never promised to protect the tradition of the Prophet..or what was authenticated by a Human Being (Bukhari), every 'Human" is driven by his ego to some extent (leaving the door open for innovations)

 

[F0uad]

Allah (swt) planted the seed for a community of believers at the hands of the Promised Messiah (as). Meanwhile other Sunni Muslims formed a sect over whether the Holy Prophet (saw) is Bashr or Noor. Another one formed a sect over whether one should raise there finger in salat. etc...etc.. The difference is that this community was founded with the purpose to revive the true spirit of Islam which has essentially been lost among the vast sects. Hence, this is why Ahmadiyyat is the One True Sect (in our view). It is different from any other.

So he established a sect that even has it owns sects? Where is the unity of that? You said he defended Islam, defended of what? More Sects occurred during hes live-time and there are more now 200 - 100 years after him.

I am talking about Khilafat as was established after the Holy Prophet (saw) with the successors Hazrat Abu Bakr (ra), Hazrat Uthman (ra), Hazrat Umar (ra), and Hazrat Ali (ra). Not Caliphate..

So with your words-play i can call myself a Khilafat therefore your claim has no real meaning. Again my question is why not follow the other proclaimed ''Khilafats'' they even had more followers.

I am referring to independent sources, meaning not an Ahmadiyya Research Publication but rather a Non-Muslim source that wouldn't be as biased as a Muslim source due to lack of conflict of interest. Also "Sunni" identifier is rather vague as we know that it is not one sect. Ahmadi Muslims are also Sunni Muslims.

Ahmadiyya Fastest Growing Sect

I can do the same and no Ahmadi Muslims are not Sunni Muslims just ask any Sunni.

Okay, I apologize. Please name a single book of the Promised Messiah (as) you read before rejecting his claim. I have to commend you on stating that some of our view contradict you views on Islam rather then stating they contradict Islam. Which is why I would advise you to further research into our views and see how closely linked they are with the Quran, Sunnah, and Hadith. Everyone firmly believes they follow these three sources, if they truly did there wouldn't be such divisions as exist today. Hence, the Promised Messiah (as) was sent by God to resolve these divisions in Islam. Under Gods blessing this community is growing and absorbing converts from all other Muslim Sects.

I haven't read a book i have read claims such as the ''crusifiction'' of Jesus(pbuh), the Mahdi and Messiah being the person, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad being the Mahdi and Messiah and i can name several more. Again your making the claim that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a good thing but the only thing i see is him making one more ''sect'' actually the Ahmaidy Sect itself has sects.

Most beautifully the Promised Messiah (as) writes:

Which explains that he stated that his claim can be proven by the state of the World at his arrival. Before his coming many many Muslim Saints had stated his coming was near, they knew it was time. They also had revelations from God about his coming just as Allah (swt) reveals to Saints before the coming of any Prophet (as). Just as the Jews received revelations that the Holy Prophet (saw) emergence was near and many Saints migrated to Mecca to await his arrival.

This statement itself contradicts my beliefs because according to my belief the Messiah and the mahdi had different tasks then he preformed and in my belief they would occur in a different time then your Mirza Ghulam Ahmad did.

Like I have stated before the Quran cannot be used "out of context". I also demonstrated that Hadith all indicate the truth of the Promised Messiah (as) claims. You have not openly addressed my questions about the lack of connection between your views and the Hadith you propose supporting them. As it appears, your views on coming of Isa (as) are rather those that you acquired from others and you seem to see things that contradict the two most Authentic Books of Hadith. Most of all, you have not acknowledge the proof I outline in the Quran and even asked why you are avoiding it.

This again? Serious ill repeat myself again you have given ZERO specific references supporting your Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to be the Mahdi or Messiah from Islamic sources. You have used a fabricated source twice to proof your case don't you consider yourself to be dishonest and be actually falling in a hole when try to support your claims with Islamic sources?

I hope you take more time to study Ahmadiyyat and you will realize why Ahmadi Muslims accepted the Promised Messiah (as), it is the same reason mankind accepted true Prophets in the past, there is a difference between false claimants and true claimants. The most obvious being, divine support. At the time of the Promised Messiah (as) his enemies are on record to have stated that his community would not last after his death as it would come upon divine punishment, today those people have passed away and it is all to clear that Ahmadiyyat has reached the corners of the Earth (200+ countries), and even further through the first 24/7 "Dawah" Channel ever made.

I understand why the Ahmadiyat ''community'' accepted Mirza Ghulam Ahmad its the same reason as why the other followers of other so claimed ''prophets, madhi's and messiahs's'' followed them.

Peace be Upon You,

Same for you.

 

[Rational_Mind]

Run along F0uad. I am tired of your games. Every statement you cannot respond to you avoid it and runaway. Always stating I am using faulty sources. I think your heart is at fault.

Like I said before, you have not read a single book of his. Yet you are the expert to tell us all how his claim was false.

I am a Ahmadi Muslim, so I am Sunni by definition. I know that there are enough Sunni Muslims who would not see you as a Muslim either. And I am sure there are many Sunni Muslims who you would not see as Muslims.

All Sects ended with the coming of Promised Messiah (as). Like the Hadith says, just as Jesus (as) came he abolished all sects in the sense that he formed the 73rd true sect. Sects will always exist, but they will not be guiding one to the truth. What happened after the coming of Jesus (as) will happen again, the acceptors of the Messiah will make up majority. Those sects will still exist, but would lead to, as the Hadith says, Hell fire.

May God Save You.

 

[Monotheist 101]

Run along F0uad. I am tired of your games. Every statement you cannot respond to you avoid it and runaway. Always stating I am using faulty sources. I think your heart is at fault.

Like I said before, you have not read a single book of his. Yet you are the expert to tell us all how his claim was false.

I am a Ahmadi Muslim, so I am Sunni by definition. I know that there are enough Sunni Muslims who would not see you as a Muslim either. And I am sure there are many Sunni Muslims who you would not see as Muslims.

All Sects ended with the coming of Promised Messiah (as). Like the Hadith says, just as Jesus (as) came he abolished all sects in the sense that he formed the 73rd true sect. Sects will always exist, but they will not be guiding one to the truth. What happened after the coming of Jesus (as) will happen again, the acceptors of the Messiah will make up majority. Those sects will still exist, but would lead to, as the Hadith says, Hell fire.

May God Save You.

Your not Sunni by definition..You are Ahmadi..a follower of Mirza Ghulam..if you were Sunni you would have followed the tradition of the Prophet..the most important of which was..there will be no more prophets after him...

The reason I didnt respond earlier to any of your qoutes from the Quran is...because you manipulate its meanings to fit your belief..you take it out of context...

I dont know why Fouad keeps trying tho...maybe he hasnt lost faith in you like I have..

Peace and God Bless

 

[Monotheist 101]

.
. Like the Hadith says, just as Jesus (as) came he abolished all sects in the sense that he formed the 73rd true sect.
May God Save You.

First you contradict the Holy Prophets teachings by taking another Prophet..and again you contradict his teachings by saying there will be 73 sects..while the number mentioned in authentic sources is 72..anything to keep you from bursting your bubble ey?

I couldnt agree more with Fouad (Atlast we agree on something bro!! ) when he says the reason Mirza Ghulam has followers is the same as the reason why any other of the decievers/dajjals have or will have followers..

You are also wrong in saying the Quran cannot be used out of context...Mirza Ghulam is proof of that...any statement when partially concealed or seperated from a narrative can be used out of context..Another valid point is that the Quran, stops being a the Quran when translated..rather an interpretation of the translator..wonder why no one will ever be able to change the arabic Quran? It is a perfectly balanced equation...adding a single letter would unbalance the beauty/poetry of the whole book..nobody not even the Arabs have been able to replicate anything similar to it...Mirza Ghulam translated it, that is why he was able to make all these claims..You reckon if he was based in an Arab speaking country..his lies wouldnt be caught out before they had left his tongue? The reason people in sub-continent punjab believed him was because to them..he was translating the word of God for them..when infact he was changing and skewing the message..

Ahmadiyat isnt the fastest growing sect..does that help you sleep at night? lol..

 

[Rational_Mind]

Your not Sunni by definition..You are Ahmadi..a follower of Mirza Ghulam..if you were Sunni you would have followed the tradition of the Prophet..the most important of which was..there will be no more prophets after him...

The reason I didnt respond earlier to any of your qoutes from the Quran is...because you manipulate its meanings to fit your belief..you take it out of context...

I dont know why Fouad keeps trying tho...maybe he hasnt lost faith in you like I have..

Peace and God Bless

I am Sunni, thank you.

The only difference being a Sunni who accepted the Imam Mahdi and Promised Messiah (as) hence, completely followed the instruction of Holy Prophet (saw).

So until you find your Imam I am actually following in the footsteps of the Sahaba who did bait at the hands of their four righteous Khalifas.

 

[Rational_Mind]

First you contradict the Holy Prophets teachings by taking another Prophet..and again you contradict his teachings by saying there will be 73 sects..while the number mentioned in authentic sources is 72..anything to keep you from bursting your bubble ey?

I couldnt agree more with Fouad (Atlast we agree on something bro!! ) when he says the reason Mirza Ghulam has followers is the same as the reason why any other of the decievers/dajjals have or will have followers..

You are also wrong in saying the Quran cannot be used out of context...Mirza Ghulam is proof of that...any statement when partially concealed or seperated from a narrative can be used out of context..Another valid point is that the Quran, stops being a the Quran when translated..rather an interpretation of the translator..wonder why no one will ever be able to change the arabic Quran? It is a perfectly balanced equation...adding a single letter would unbalance the beauty/poetry of the whole book..nobody not even the Arabs have been able to replicate anything similar to it...Mirza Ghulam translated it, that is why he was able to make all these claims..You reckon if he was based in an Arab speaking country..his lies wouldnt be caught out before they had left his tongue? The reason people in sub-continent punjab believed him was because to them..he was translating the word of God for them..when infact he was changing and skewing the message..

Ahmadiyat isnt the fastest growing sect..does that help you sleep at night? lol..

Your conduct helps me sleep at night. Everytime you adapt to the arguments of Kuffar a Mecca it reassures me that according to Prophecy the time has come and the Promised Messiah (as) fulfilled them one to one. Hence, the response from the believers is as expected.

The Promised Messiah claimed that the source of his learning was no other than the All-Knowing God Who had graciously endowed him with knowledge of His Holy Book and of the Arabic language. "The Gracious Lord taught the Quran". This was a Divine promise supplemented with another gift in the shape of a perfect knowledge of 40,000 root-words of the Arabic language. I have been granted the miracle of eloquent and elegant speech in the likeness of the Holy Quran and there is none who can compete with me" said the Promised Messiah. (Zaruratul Imam, page 25).

Even the leading luminaries of the Arab world dared not take up this challenge which came from an inhabitant of a village of the Punjab where Arabic was neither spoken nor written as a living language but was treated as a classic language. No doubt it was held in great reverence, but it was far from being the medium of education anywhere in the entire subcontinent.

Ijazul Masih was his first book in choice Arabic language on the excellencies and exegesis of the Holy Quran that carried his challenge to the ulema of the Arab and non-Arab world. The prominent Egyptian writer Allama Rashid Raza, Editor of the Almanar (Cairo), was especially invited to pick up the gauntlet. The Promised Messiah said that if anyone would come up with a comparable performance he would burn his manuscript. He observed:

Even if their fathers and their sons and their helpers and their learned and their wise and their jurists put their heads together they will not be able to produce a commentary like it.
He further declared that `this is a book which has no equal and whoever attempted to prepare its answers would be humbled and put to shame. The Promised Messiah prepared a number of scholarly works since then in Arabic of unique charm and wonderful artistic beauty and overflowing with enthralling exposition of the subtleties of the Holy Book.
1. Minanur Rahman; 2. Khutba Ilhamia; 3. Najmulhuda; 4. Tuhfatul Baghdad; 5. Nurul Haq; 6. Ijaz-e-Ahmadi; 7. Hamamatul Bushra; 8. Lujjatun-Nur; 9. Hujjatullah; 10. Mowahibur Rahman; 11. Albalagh; 12. Targhibul Momineen; 13. Sirrul Khilafa; 14. Istifta; 15. Sirat-ul-Abdal; 16. Karamat-us-Sadiqeen; 17. Al-Anzar; 18. Itmamul Hujjat; 19. Alhuda etc.

Always put to shame.

 

[Rational_Mind]

More about his Arabic Works:

The Promised Messiah's Arabic works

When he announced his claim and turned to the work of reform, his critics first attacked his lack of learning. They described him as a Munshi, that is to say, a half-educated scribe. He was literate; so he was able to write. Some of his writings had attracted attention; so he had come to have a reputation. He was no scholar, knew no Arabic, and did not have the qualifications to pronounce on religious matters. This criticism was raised in every conversation and in every hostile writing. A wall of prejudice was erected against him. It was untrue to say that he knew no Arabic, however. He had read the standard books. But he had certainly not had the benefit of instruction from any great scholar. He had earned no testimonial after study at an old school. He was not one of the leading Ulema of the country, nor was he a Maulvi of any status. When this criticism spread far and wide and the Mullas started trumpeting it in and out of season, God granted him special knowledge of the Arabic language. According to him, God endowed him with a vocabulary of 40,000 words in a single night. He was granted miraculous competence in the Arabic language; he was commanded to write Arabic books and promised special help. His first attempt in Arabic prose was a chapter he appended to his book Aina-i-Kamalat-i-Islam. This chapter contained a challenge to those who found fault with his lack of Arabic. He asked critics to produce something better. Nobody accepted the challenge. He then wrote book after book in Arabic. The number of his Arabic works amounts to more than twenty. Some of these were accompanied by offers of rewards amounting in some cases to Rs 10,000. (These cash rewards can still be won by anyone who produces something which equals them in beauty and power of language.) Nobody took up the challenge; nobody produced anything in reply. Some of his Arabic books were written as a challenge to Arabs. Even they failed to write in reply, and withdrew from the field. One of his books was addressed to Syed Rashid Riza, the well-known editor of Al-Manar. The Syed was invited to write in reply, but he did not. Other Arabs were similarly invited, and they did not.
Maulvis in the Indian sub-continent showed they were beaten when they said that the Arabic works said to have been written by Hazrat Mirza Sahib had really been written by an Arab who worked for him in secret. This criticism made it quite clear that the standard of his Arabic works was really very high; but his critics thought they were written for him by someone else. Hazrat Mirza Sahib met the criticism by suggesting that his adversaries could have the help of as many Arab and Syrian writers as they liked. Repeated efforts were made to attract them to this literary contest but nobody came forward. These Arabic works are still without a reply.

 

[Rational_Mind]

You are also wrong in saying the Quran cannot be used out of context...Mirza Ghulam is proof of that...any statement when partially concealed or seperated from a narrative can be used out of context.

Never will you, nor your children, no any of your accomplices defend your view from the Quran. Because:

[41:43] Falsehood cannot approach it either from before or from behind it. It is a revelation from the Wise, the Praiseworthy.