Mirza Ghulam Ahmad - Is he really Al Mahdi and the Messiah?

[Monotheist 101]

You do not follow reason but rather the opinion of Saints, I follow the opinion of Saints only if it makes sense.

What makes so much sense about your Ahmadi Saints opinion that you have accepted another prophet? Did you come to this conclusion by yourself? Or were you raised amidst this Ahmadi Propaganda?

You seem like a nice enough person, What I don't understand is why you choose to hold on to these innovations and apply what was revealed to Muhammad to Ghulam Ahmad? So according to his theory there will be another prophet in 1400 years? is he going to justify his claims using the same ayats of the Quran? The Quran which they have no authority over and was revealed to Muhammad?

Peace

 

[Gharib]

I don't understand how a non-Arab can be the Khalif when the hadith clearly say Imamah (leadership) is only for the Quraysh?

 

[DawudTalut]

................................You seem like a nice enough person, What I don't understand is why you choose...................

[.....said to Rational_Mind]



Peace be on everyone. The other day, I read somewhere someone who was keep calling names to Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) then he wrote self contradictory words:

"....Many Islamic people are genuinely nice, happy, peaceful people, but their religion's texts are not quite so peaceful."

Almost the same is being said here in this forum to the person (Rational_Mind) since of belief that the promsied refomer has come according to prophecy of Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) to regain lost progress and glory of Islam.


[36:31] Alas for My servants! there comes not a Messenger to them but they mock at him.


GOOD FRUITS COME FROM GOOD TREE
HOLY QURAN
[Surah Ibrahim,14:25] Dost thou not see how Allah sets forth the similitude of a good word? It is like a good tree, whose root is firm and whose branches reach into heaven.
[14:26] It brings forth its fruit at all times by the command of its Lord. And Allah sets forth similitudes for men that they may reflect.
[14:27] And the case of an evil word is like that of an evil tree, which is uprooted from above the earth and has no stability.
Ref: alislam.org/quran

BIBLE
Luke 6:44
For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.


GOD DOES NOT ALLOW FALSE TO PROPER AT HIS NAME
Allah sets an argument for the truth of Holy Prophet s.a.w. :

[69:45] And if he had forged and attributed any sayings to Us,
[69:46] We would surely have seized him by the right hand,
[69:47] And then surely We would have severed his life-artery,
[69:48] And not one of you could have held Us off from him.
[69:49] And verily it is a reminder for the righteous.
Ref: alislam.org/quran


Under the positive deduction of the argument of above verses [the verses which are TAZKERATUL MUTTAQIN (69:49)]---- From 1889 to 2013, The peaceful Message (the real face of Islam) of Promised Messiah and Mahdi (peace be on him) who is the ardent devotee and servant of Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) has reached to 202 countries by the Grace of Allah.

The Holy Prophet s.a.w also prophecied Khilafat of two types. One continues by the Grace of Allah and that the truth of prophecy of Holy Prophet s.a.w.......The Khilafat has been promised by Allah to believers who do good deeds:


PROMISE OF KHILAFAT, TO WHOM IT IS GRANTED, AND ITS FRUITS AND AIMS

[24:56] Allah has promised to those among you who believe and do good works that He will surely make them Successors in the earth, as He made Successors from among those who were before them; and that He will surely establish for them their religion which He has chosen for them; and that He will surely give them in exchange security and peace after their fear: They will worship Me, and they will not associate anything with Me. Then whoso is ungrateful after that, they will be the rebellious.
[24:57] And observe Prayer and give the Zakat and obey the Messenger, that you may be shown mercy.
Ref:alislam.org


Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) foretold:
i ) Prophethood shall remain among you as long as Allah shall will. He will bring about its end and
ii ) Follow it with Khilafat on the precepts of prophethood for as long as He shall will and then bring about its end.
iii ) A tyrannical monarchy will then follow and will remain as long as Allah shall will and then come to an end.
iv ) There will follow thereafter monarchical despotism to last as long as Allah shall will and come to an end upon His decree.
v ) There will then emerge Khilafat (Successorship) on the precept of Prophethood. Then he did not say more.
(Ref: Narrater: Companion Huziafah (r.a): Musnad Ahmad, Mishkaat)

#i ) is about Holy Prophet s.a.w.
#ii ) is about Khilafat e Rashidah of Khulfa r.a. of Holy Prophet s.a.w.
#iii ) and #iv ) are periods afterwards.
#v ) These words of Holy Prophet s.a.w. --- i.e. "There will then emerge Khilafat (Successorship) on the precept of Prophethood" --- This Khilafat is of promised Messiah Mahdi a.s. and these blessed words of Holy Prophet s.a.w. also tells the status of promised Messiah Mahdi, i.e. a Prophet (the ardenet devotee and subservient to Holy Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.)


Fifth Ahmadiyya Khalifah (may Allah continue help him) learned from Promised Messiah and Mahdi a.s. and steers the community towards and into love of Allah and Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) to practice real peaceful Islam and he calls the worlds to it ---- to the Islam which has nothing to do with chaos, mayhem, extremism and defeat upon defeat at the hands of non-Muslims --- to the Islam which brings and binds whole humanity under the peace-umbrella of Allah Almighty and Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be on him).


Holy Prohet s.a.w. is mercy for worlds:
"And We have sent thee not but as a mercy for all peoples." (Surah Al-Anbiya 21:108) and verse (24:57) which is in connection with works of Khilafat ends with words "that you may be shown mercy". ------ Both together imply that the Khilafat is the channel of mercy of Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) for humanity.

Good wishes.

 

[Monotheist 101]

GOD DOES NOT ALLOW FALSE TO PROPER AT HIS NAME
Allah sets an argument for the truth of Holy Prophet s.a.w. :

[69:45] And if he had forged and attributed any sayings to Us,
[69:46] We would surely have seized him by the right hand,
[69:47] And then surely We would have severed his life-artery,
[69:48] And not one of you could have held Us off from him.
[69:49] And verily it is a reminder for the righteous.
Ref: alislam.org/quran
Good wishes.

Bro verily Ghulam Ahmad's saintly (unsaintly) death is a sign for the believers, you have said it yourself.

 

[Monotheist 101]

Peace be on everyone. The other day, I read somewhere someone who was keep calling names to Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) then he wrote self contradictory words:

"....Many Islamic people are genuinely nice, happy, peaceful people, but their religion's texts are not quite so peaceful."

Salam Bro,

First of all it does not matter what you've read or what "someone" said. If I started to share everything I have read about Mirza Ghulam Ahmad you guys would be truly offended. So lets just leave it at that, bottom line, there are more writers than there are pairs of eyes to read them. You have to separate the bull from the real. I'm afraid you guys have to sharpen up those skills, your brains a tool, use it.

Almost the same is being said here in this forum to the person (Rational_Mind) since of belief that the promsied refomer has come according to prophecy of Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) to regain lost progress and glory of Islam.

Bro If you are Ahmadi, why not display it "proudly" your profile description says you are a follower of Muhammad, how can that be when you are a follower of Mirza Ghulam?

The reason I called him a nice enough person was because I have had a few discussions with him over the past and read his views on other Islamic matters some of them which I completely agree. The only problem that I have is understanding is, that how can an intelligent person come to the conclusion he has on his own, without "a hand to guide him" in the form of parents, teachers, scholars etc. He keeps saying he is an individual thinker, but every time I ask him to explain why he chose this, the real reason, he gives me the same bogus defense and theories that "learned" Ahmadi scholars have been giving to the Islamic world.

Ultimately we differ in our opinions because I think I have used my intellect to the best of my ability to make an informed unbiased decision, while you guys are claiming the same things Ahmadis before you have, I'm sorry I see no logic in Ghulam Ahmads claims, and looking into his other claims of certainty like identifying the Prophets that were sent to every region and being 100% certain that they are who they are. I cant help but laugh at how an intelligent man was able to fool illiterate but honest people in the search for their creator.

He claimed to have found the burial site of Jesus in India, modern archeologists findings debunk the theory and they identify the site as being Kapilvastu the final resting place of Gautama Buddha, If you take off your Ahmadi sunglasses and look it his character and claims from a neutral point of view, you will realize that he was an ordinary educated man, very educated for his time, that being said compared to today, with the internet, a 5 year old can educate himself more than Ghulam Ahmad could in mid 1850s.

Ive asked Rational Mind several times to read up on some older mystery religions, and greek and hindu panthiesm, you will see that what you claim divine revelation and what they claim divine revelation is indeed one and the same thing. I read about Ghulam Ahmads final speech or one of them, it is said that he was in a trance, and he later claimed that as if something else was saying these words through his tongue and mouth.
Guys what do you think this thing he was talking about? Do you think it was Allah? an Angel? Good or Bad?

I have read about these experiences in detail from various sources, everyone claims to have their own personal differing opinions on the subject, what they agree upon is that it is the divine.

I on the other hand have reached a conclusion through experiences and findings of my own, that it is indeed Satan.

Why lie to your ownself and say that I am using my brain?, when really you are actually just using the Ahmadi scholars brain, the same one that taught you what to say and what ayats of Quran to qoute (bogusly) to defend Ghulam Ahmads claims.

I will repeat myself and say that I have allegience to no sect, I am not Muslim because I was born into a Muslim family, I have extensively looked into anything that will get me closer to the truth, The truth in your case is that you are blindly following a major major major innovation in our beautiful religion of Islam.

May Allah guide all of Us
Peace on You Bro.

 

[DawudTalut]

Peace be on everyone. The main job of Promised Messiah Mahdi, according to his master Holy Prophet s.a.w. is to bring humanity back to Islam and he is called Hakam and Adal i.e. he brings the glory to real Islam which had weakened in practice.

http://www.alislam.org/topics/messiah/index.php

May Allah guide all of us and keep us on straight path once He grant it to us. Allah has His doors always open if we dispute anything, we can always pray to Him for specific removal of doubts for our peace of mind and heart.

Amen Allahumma Amen. Peace be on everyone.

 

[Monotheist 101]

Peace be on everyone. The main job of Promised Messiah Mahdi, according to his master Holy Prophet s.a.w. is to bring humanity back to Islam and he is called Hakam and Adal i.e. he brings the glory to real Islam which had weakened in practice.

The Promised Messiah

May Allah guide all of us and keep us on straight path once He grant it to us. Allah has His doors always open if we dispute anything, we can always pray to Him for specific removal of doubts for our peace of mind and heart.

Amen Allahumma Amen. Peace be on everyone.

I would have jumped ship and joined your side if Mirza Ghulam Ahmad had brought glory to Islam he has lived and passed away over a century ago, where is this glory you speak of?, In my eyes he has not brought glory but shame to Islam.
Thats my personal opinion, you might disagree

 

[Rational_Mind]

I would have jumped ship and joined your side if Mirza Ghulam Ahmad had brought glory to Islam he has lived and passed away over a century ago, where is this glory you speak of?, In my eyes he has not brought glory but shame to Islam.
Thats my personal opinion, you might disagree

I hope you understand that in our view your opinion has equivalent value as a pastors opinion on Islam who speaks against it without ever reading the Quran or the teachings of the Holy Prophet (saw).

Your primary source of information was from those who rejected him. If my primary source of information on Islam came from Jews or Christians it would parallel 1 to 1, with your allegations on the Promised Messiah (as).

Every statement you make only gives me more confidence that I have found the true path. Although it may sound unreal, the point I am making is that your response is the exact same as the response from those who opposed the Holy Prophet (saw). In fact, this is how the Holy Prophet (saw) asked to identify the 73rd sect.

1. You allege a cursed death. Disbelievers said the exact same thing after the Death of the Holy Prophet (saw). On the same basis you are, what others have said to you.

2. You allege he was well educated. Disbelievers said the Holy Prophet (saw) was taught everything from a Jew. Just as baseless and false. Muslims also know true knowledge of Quran only comes from God.

3. You allege he was influenced by Satan. Disbelievers said the EXACT same thing. That his revelations were under influence. In fact, since you are not aware, read out on the state of the Holy Prophet (saw) at the time he was receiving revelation.

Your misunderstandings are due to the lack of knowledge of the life of the Holy Prophet (saw). Because every allegation you raise parallels the allegations disbelievers raised against the Holy Prophet (saw). If you were aware you would never state the things you did, you would understand that by raising such allegation it is also valid to be falsely put on the Holy Prophet (saw).

As for your allegation stating that I am brainwashed. It is completely unfair.

1. I have read your views from mainstream sources. And you have never read ours from our source but rather anti-ahmadiyya publications. You have admitted to knowing nothing about Ahmadiyyat in your first PM then two days later you are an expert while admitting to never have read a primary source. You are heavily heavily influenced by bias. Use primary sources, this is what we learn to have fair research. If I studied history of Islam from anti-Islam sources I would falter on their bias.

2. We are encouraged to study the views of other sects. I can guarantee you that an Ahmadi on average know more about mainstream view than does a mainstream Muslim. I spend more time telling Muslims like yourself what their view is, because they themselves are unaware. I can produce numerous statements by mainstream scholars advising never to read Ahmadiyya literature. So who has something to hide?

I have already noted that you are in denial. I cannot change your mind. Quran warns against rejecting on the first step as Allah (swt) seals the heart as a punishment. Which is why so many people wrongly rejected the Holy Prophet (saw), they simply did it on the word of other men. Never went to the source, after such it was too late for most of them.

I apologize that you have such a negative sentiment about Ahmadiyyat. If you had studied history you would have learned that at the time of the Promised Messiah (as) Islam was nearly succumbing to outside and inside attacks. Most of the refutations against Islam you read today were HEAVILY HEAVILY influenced by the Promised Messiah (as). Without them, Islam would not have survived, because it was the work of God that protected it.

If you look further into Ahmadiyyat, you will learn it has solved all the problems that Muslims like yourself (which are a few) care to admit.

Apparently we did damage to Islam while we are one of the few Muslim groups recognized as peaceful and those who actually did the most to liberate Muslim countries (lookup Chaudary Zafarullah Khan).

I hope your sentiments change and you give yourself more time to research. Comparing Ahmadiyyat to satanic cults is way way out of line. If such was true than the Quran would be wrong, because good fruits don't come from bad trees. To find the good fruits you should atleast check the tree yourself and not listen to hearsay.

Peace be Upon You

 

[Monotheist 101]

I have already noted that you are in denial. I cannot change your mind. Quran warns against rejecting on the first step as Allah (swt) seals the heart as a punishment. Which is why so many people wrongly rejected the Holy Prophet (saw), they simply did it on the word of other men. Never went to the source, after such it was too late for most of them.

I apologize that you have such a negative sentiment about Ahmadiyyat. If you had studied history you would have learned that at the time of the Promised Messiah (as) Islam was nearly succumbing to outside and inside attacks. Most of the refutations against Islam you read today were HEAVILY HEAVILY influenced by the Promised Messiah (as). Without them, Islam would not have survived, because it was the work of God that protected it.

I am in denial that is true. What is false is that you claim I would have rejected the True Prophet Muhammad and 'the miracle' of the Quran. The difference between Your Promised one and Muhammad is that your Promised one hasn't convinced me enough, I will remain in denial until he brings proof, which he hasnt he has only qouted the Quran that was given to Muhammad and which he has no authority over, out of context and with an underlying agenda.

 

[Monotheist 101]

If such was true than the Quran would be wrong, because good fruits don't come from bad trees. To find the good fruits you should atleast check the tree yourself and not listen to hearsay

Have you ever heard of Good fruits not being harvested properly and thus rotting and falling off the "Good" tree?

 

[Rational_Mind]

I am in denial that is true. What is false is that you claim I would have rejected the True Prophet Muhammad and 'the miracle' of the Quran. The difference between Your Promised one and Muhammad is that your Promised one hasn't convinced me enough, I will remain in denial until he brings proof, which he hasnt he has only qouted the Quran that was given to Muhammad and which he has no authority over, out of context and with an underlying agenda.

If you are looking for a new book please look into Bahaism. At one end allegations are made that Ahmadis abrogate Quran while this is mainstream view, on the other they request where is his book.

What do you mean he has no authority over? What is authority? Who provides it? What do you even mean?

The FACT is Quran cannot be manipulated. Which is why I am now sure till my death I will continue to wait for people like yourself to reject a Prophet of God using the Quran and will die waiting.

On the other hand more sects will form and continue to abrogate the Quran and innovate interpretations with no knowledge or divine support. Continue to argue over a firm book they lack knowledge of and refuse the guidance Allah can only provide through a Prophet of God, as he has always done. Yet of they continue in arrogance with new innovations daily eventually they will be abrogated under divine punishment. If the state of the world today isn't sufficient warning that a Prophet has come I don't know how many signs need to be denied.

I am tired of hearing false allegations, if this is the quality of Dawah may God save such souls that need to adopt ways of disbelievers.

Peace be Upon

 

[Rational_Mind]

Have you ever heard of Good fruits not being harvested properly and thus rotting and falling off the "Good" tree?

The analogy evades you. What are you thinking that rotted and fell?

Let me make it a bit clearer. Among Muslims today they have abrogated the Quran, taken Scholars for Gods, declared each other kafirs, shed the blood of their brothers and sisters, do I really need to continue. The Quran is there, people are astray. Which is why Prophet of God are sent. To bring them back. Lost of understanding is the disease.

 

[Monotheist 101]

So is this an ongoing process? will prophets continue to be sent? every 1400 or so years?

 

[Monotheist 101]

Bro in my eyes, any sect that was formed is wrong, from the 1st Shia/Sunni sects to the countless others, I have no interest in wasting my limited time on this earth on reading innovations, I have not read the Bahai Books, neither am I interested.

What we will never agree upon is whats so special about Mirza Ghulam that you love him so dearly and regard him so highly? In my eyes he is another innovator. Jesus is supposed to unite the Christians and Muslims, Ghulam Ahmad didnt do that, he is supposed to be the promised messiah for the Jews and he is supposed to fulfill his incomplete prophecies. Mirza Ghulam again didnt do that. Instead Mirza Ghulam identified Guatama Buddhas shrine as that of Jesus ibn Maryam and claimed himself divinely influenced....
My good mate Bob would say something like "what's this Ghulam dude been smoking?"

 

[DawudTalut]

My good mate Bob would say something like "what's this Ghulam dude been smoking?"

Please do not be disrespectful in debate, if you do not agree.

 

[Rational_Mind]

The grave in Kashmir was well known as Jesus (as) by name Yusuf Asaf. By local people we have on paper their signatures. It has been identified by Non-Muslim researchers as grave of Jesus (as). There is a BBC documentary on it. Stop speculating from anti ahmadiyya literature. Using cult.info will not only embarrass you but also blemish Islam.

A prophet does not enforce religion on others. You are claiming that he will achieve in his lifetime the unity among religions that Holy Prophet (saw) did not achieve. Why is it that every allegation at its roots is placed exactly the one Jews raised when stating the Holy Prophet (saw) and Jesus (as) didn't unite them. The rejectors are comical, they reject and then say why didn't we get united. I guess that is just asking for divine punishment then complaining why isn't the Messiah coming....

 

[Rational_Mind]

So is this an ongoing process? will prophets continue to be sent? every 1400 or so years?

I am finding it disturbing that every false allegation I refute I get no apology. All I will say is read the Quran as I answers your questions. God sent prophets when needed, not when how or when man desire them. Rejecting a Prophet on this question again parallels rejection that other nations did.

 

[Monotheist 101]

I am finding it disturbing that every false allegation I refute I get no apology. All I will say is read the Quran as I answers your questions. God sent prophets when needed, not when how or when man desire them. Rejecting a Prophet on this question again parallels rejection that other nations did.

Let me rephrase that question? Was Ghulam Ahmad the last prophet according to Ahmadiyat? will there be more prophets? Is is possible?

You dont deserve an apology(other than calling you brainwashed etc. i got carried away I have edited that out)..why are you expecting one?..do you think the whole Islamic world will apologize to your Khilafa? I highly doubt that and think it should be the other way round.

 

[Monotheist 101]

I guess that is just asking for divine punishment then complaining why isn't the Messiah coming....

I dont know what fairytale you have been told, Why do u keep comparing me with the Jews and non-believers of Mecca, I havent compared you with other apostates have I?

Who are you to decide who gets divine punishment? I mean just because you choose to believe in this garabage doesnt give you the right to call whoever questions it a non-believer. I havent called you a non-believer or compared you with Mansur Al Hallaj, Have I?

Show some respect if you want the same..

And to the person that found the what he been smoking comment offensive... Open your mind, I didnt imply he was smoking anything bad..could be a ciggerette. Dont take things out of context, you think I meant something bad because thats what you want it to mean..

 

[Monotheist 101]

As for Yusuf Asaf theory...not enough concrete evidence..please link me to something scientific that dates it back to that time, and get me some non-Ahmadi and Non theosophical sources which hint at Jesus's travels to India, the theories I have come across hint at him spending time with the Buddhists..Why would he need to do that? What could Jesus possibly learn from Buddha, that God couldnt have taught him?
An excerpt from an article I found..from a neutral source..without the same hidden agenda as the Ahmadis..

His family home almost overlooks the shrine, and he is witheringly dismissive of the notion that Jesus was buried there.
"It's a story spread by local shopkeepers, just because some crazy professor said it was Jesus's tomb. They thought it would be good for business. Tourists would come, after all these years of violence.
"And then it got into the Lonely Planet, and too many people started coming.
"And one foreigner…" he gave me an apologetic look, "broke off a bit from the tomb to take home with him. So that's why it's closed now."
On cue, a couple of unwashed and exhausted Australians appeared, carrying the latest edition of the Lonely Planet travel guide to India, which, sure enough, carried the tale of Jesus's tomb, with some caveats about crackpots and blasphemy.
They asked me to take a photo of them outside the shrine - but were not desperately disappointed that it was closed.
The tomb of Jesus was just another place to tick off on their tourist-in-India must-visit list.

full article on..
BBC News - Tourists flock to 'Jesus's tomb' in Kashmir