Mohammad in the Bible...

[stevecanuck]

Hey. that's something new. Where in the Quran does it call Jesus by the "title" Muhammed?

I think prior to your response, I should say nowhere. Unless you mean some derival of the word hamd. But Even that I am not sure. Yet, I would like to see which verse you are referring to.

Wait a minute ...... wouldn't that be, as you like to say, "cherry picking"?

 

[firedragon]

Wait a minute ...... wouldn't that be, as you like to say, "cherry picking"?

Not at all.

 

[stevecanuck]

Ah, that explains it! The prophecy is about Mohammad Ali.

He said he was a Muslim, but he also said, "I am the greatest (In Arabic - al akbar)". No self respecting Muslim would ever say anything that so much as hinted at a status greater than or equal to Allah's.

 

[stevecanuck]

Anything people want to be in the Bible is in the Bible! "Tent of meeting" = Superbowl. "Staff" = hockey stick. "tablets" = Apple iPad

Ah yes, the book of Gretzky.

 

[stevecanuck]

It's nice when people can have a good dialogue. It is beneficial for both sides. They each learn about each other and their religion. Respect can go a long way even if you disagree. Doesn't mean to hate.

If you can learn anything from other religions, then Allah fell short in his revelations. The Qur'an is supposed to give you ALL you need to know about religion - "this day have I perfected for you your religion". Did he perfect it or not? If he did, then what is left to learn from other religions?

 

[blü 2]

He said he was a Muslim, but he also said, "I am the greatest (In Arabic - al akbar)". No self respecting Muslim would ever say anything that so much as hinted at a status greater than or equal to Allah's.

He said he was a Muslim because his name (Cassius Clay) and religion (Christian) were not things he'd chosen but consequences of slavery, so he changed them both.

Whether it would please Allah to go fifteen rounds with Ali's shade in order to settle the matter is a question I leave to those better informed about Alpha males.

 

[stevecanuck]

Not at all.

Just to confirm - if someone claims that the Qur'an says such and such, and then provides a verse to prove his point, then he's NOT cherry picking. Right?

 

[firedragon]

Just to confirm - if someone claims that the Qur'an says such and such, and then provides a verse to prove his point, then he's NOT cherry picking. Right?

Such and such is unscholarly and vague nonsense mate.

You claimed Jesus was called Muhammed. Give a verse. If you made that up, claim your mistake.

 

[rosends]

Please complain to the Admins that Firedragon should be restricted to a private chat.

Swing and a miss. I'm not the one who thinks you should be restricted. You are the one who has a problem when I answer what you post in public. Maybe if you want a private chat, you should complain to the Admins that Firedragon should be restricted to a private chat.

 

[firedragon]

Swing and a miss. I'm not the one who thinks you should be restricted. You are the one who has a problem when I answer what you post in public. Maybe if you want a private chat, you should complain to the Admins that Firedragon should be restricted to a private chat.

K

 

[firedragon]

but he also said, "I am the greatest (In Arabic - al akbar

Akbar does not mean "greatest".

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It doesn't say anywhere that these accounts were "written down in a book". Never.

.

"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful."
7:157

So, this translation is wrong in your opinion? It says "written". This is a sahih international translation.

I honestly don't understand what you mean. I am not claiming. Quran claims that, they find Muhammad written in what they have of the Torah and Injil.
But thanks. If what you believe make sense to you, let it be.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So basically you are far superior in knowledge and ilme ghaib than God right?

Nice.

So, then in your opinion Allah wants people to blindly accept that Muhammad was described in previous Revelations, such as Torah and Injil, even though according to you there is no evidence of that, since no such Books were ever written.

Nice
Very logical

 

[firedragon]

Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written

See. You are an expert in the arabic language. Please advice me if Kuthuban really means it was found in a physically written document.

Thanks in advance.

 

[firedragon]

So, then in your opinion Allah wants people to blindly accept that Muhamamd was described in previous Revelations, such as Torah and Injil, even though according to you there is no evidence of that, since no such Books were ever written.

Nice
Very logical

The problem you have is that you are superficially equating the Thaurath and Injeel are what you consider is the Bible.

that's your personal problem. Its not related to me. So you are asking false questions based on your false premise.

Dont make false claims about other peoples premises. First, ask questions about the other persons premises. And of course you can always open a thread to understand other peoples premises. You are an arabic expert, and you can have that conversation.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The problem you have is that you are superficially equating the Thaurath and Injeel are what you consider is the Bible.

that's your personal problem. Its not related to me. So you are asking false questions based on your false premise.

Dont make false claims about other peoples premises. First, ask questions about the other persons premises. And of course you can always open a thread to understand other peoples premises. You are an arabic expert, and you can have that conversation.

I understand your view. But I don't see your view is compatible with what the Quran says.

 

[firedragon]

I understand your view. But I don't see your view is compatible with what the Quran says.

that's just some random statement. Anyone can make statements. Its like someone saying "I dont see your husband is actually your husband"

That kind of rhetoric should be kept for gossip.

I will cut and paste my post so that you dont miss it or just ignore it.

The problem you have is that you are superficially equating the Thaurath and Injeel are what you consider is the Bible.

that's your personal problem. Its not related to me. So you are asking false questions based on your false premise.

Dont make false claims about other peoples premises. First, ask questions about the other persons premises. And of course you can always open a thread to understand other peoples premises. You are an arabic expert, and you can have that conversation.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

See. You are an expert in the arabic language. Please advice me if Kuthuban really means it was found in a physically written document.

Thanks in advance.

I am not expert in Arabic, but enough familiar with it to recognize a correct translation, if i investigate the matter. But if you are willing to have sincere discussion, we can try...

ٱلرَّسُولَ ٱلنَّبِىَّ ٱلْأُمِّىَّ ٱلَّذِى يَجِدُونَهُۥ مَكْتُوبًا عِندَهُمْ فِى ٱلتَّوْرَىٰةِ وَٱلْإِنجِيلِ



What does يجدونه mean?

According to the word to word column, it means, "they find him"

Ayah al-A`raf (The Heights, The Elevated Places) 7:157 Word for Word at IslamAwakened.com

It's root is وجد، which is repeated many times in other verses. It always mean Finding
Here are other verses.

Ayah al-A`raf (The Heights, The Elevated Places) 7:157 Word for Word at IslamAwakened.com

As regards to مكتوبا، it obviously means Written.

عندهم obviously mean, "with them"

The next two words make it clear

في تورات و الإنجيل

In Torah and Injil.

It cannot be anymore clear than this. Quran is making this claim.
But because some Muslims cannot find Muhammad mentioned in the Torah and Injil, they have no other way, except to say, Torah and Injil that exist today are not what Allah speaks of in the Quran.

 

[Wandering Monk]

It's funny how Christians and Muslims want to write themselves into the Jewish bible.

 

[firedragon]

I am not expert in Arabic, but enough familiar with it to recognize a correct translation

Really. So could you please explain the difference between Nakthub and Akthub?

Thanks.