More Dawkins idiocy...

[SkepticThinker]

Augustus,

Based on your last post, it appears you don't understand Dawkins very well. While I can't speak for him, my experience of reading his work and listening to his talks would lead me to say that Dawkins believes:

- Ideologies like Stalinism are similar to religion in that they both rely heavily on dogmatism over critical thinking.
- Valuing science and reason DOES lead to secular humanism. (Personally, I'd be interested in any counter-examples that you have.)
- There is much evidence that secular humanism DOES lead to morally positive results, e.g. Scandinavia.

Don't forget the authoritarian and worship-demanding "dear leader" component.

 

[Augustus]

What is wrong or dangerous with not living mythology ?

Humanism is mythology.

 

[outhouse]

Do you believe he thinks humanism is more rational than religion?

You mean why is academia and education better then mythology?

 

[Robert.Evans]

Well you are too much into your beliefs, you cannot see beyond your belief's because you are blinded by your beliefs, Dawkins isn't blinded by any beliefs, he simply say's what is known, not that which is not known, or believe to be known.

Well that is always an easy stance isn't it. I will tell you what is front of my face and therefore I can't be wrong. Sometimes we look deeper. He doesn't want to. He has been pruned out and is the scorned man now. Why else would he spend so much time on this hobby of us, other than the fact he makes millions of cause out of the gullible.
If he is just going to stick with materialistic arguments, then he will win. He can prove them. But why then debate it in the first place?

 

[outhouse]

Sometimes we look deeper

That can be very meaningless and vague. It also does not recognize the fanaticism that refuses education and knowledge

 

[outhouse]

Humanism is mythology.

Factually it Is not.

 

[outhouse]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism

Humanism is a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism, empiricism) over unthinking acceptance of dogma or superstition


IN other words.

Reality over superstition.

 

[Augustus]

Ideologies like Stalinism are similar to religion in that they both rely heavily on dogmatism over critical thinking.

Humanism is not based on objective reason either. It contains dogmas regarding 'human rights', etc. that are invented transcendent concepts with no basis in historical reality.

Valuing science and reason DOES lead to secular humanism. (Personally, I'd be interested in any counter-examples that you have.)

Tell that to the Enlightenment.

For example, Adam Smith's free market economics relies entirely on Divine Providence. Liberal economics is based on religion.

Locke argued that American 'Indians' didn't deserve land as they didn't commoditise it.

Jacobinism and French Revolutionary anti-religious murder, the 'cult of reason' etc. were based on science and reason.

Ditto Marxism

Scientific racism was a widely accepted product of the Enlightenment and we know where that led to.

There is no reason, and no evidence, that science and reason = secular humanism.

Humanism itself rests on the concept of human rights and humanity as a concept. These are cultural constructs that didn't exist prior to universal monotheism and its secular offshoots.

There is much evidence that secular humanism DOES lead to morally positive results, e.g. Scandinavia.

Again, this is not relevant to my point.

 

[outhouse]

Humanism is not based on objective reason either. It contains dogmas regarding 'human rights', etc. that are invented transcendent concepts with no basis in historical reality.

Rhetoric.

Provide sources.

 

[Augustus]

You mean why is academia and education better then mythology?

The mistaken assumption that academia and education = humanism. A demonstrable falsehood. See the Enlightenment.

Factually it Is not.

Please demonstrate its factual basis then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism

Humanism is a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism, empiricism) over unthinking acceptance of dogma or superstition


IN other words.

Reality over superstition.

That's what it normatively thinks it does.

Why would anybody who looked at the evidence believe that there was such a thing as "humanity". There are people, that is it.

Rhetoric.

Provide sources.

Is the burden of proof not on you to show that humanism is based on reason and evidence?

Look at the Humanist manifesto 3 that Dawkins is a signatory of, burden of proof is on you to show me that this is not predicated on baseless assumptions.

This is what you expect of religious ideology, don't move the goalposts.

 

[outhouse]

Please demonstrate its factual basis then.

a philosophy is not a factual basis or mythology.

Try again.

 

[outhouse]

Why would anybody who looked at the evidence believe that there was such a thing as "humanity".

So that people can live closer to reality, and stop making ancient mens mistakes of attributing mythology to nature when it has no place.

It sure is better then primitive mythology, and people that think they mythology is the best version and try and commit genocide on people with different mythology

 

[outhouse]

Please demonstrate its factual basis then.

I provided a credible source that showed it is not mythological, and avoids making ancient mens mistakes still followed by most people today.

 

[Augustus]

a philosophy is not a factual basis or mythology.

Try again.

You're not making sense

So that people can live closer to reality, and stop making ancient mens mistakes of attributing mythology to nature when it has no place.

It sure is better then primitive mythology, and people that think they mythology is the best version and try and commit genocide on people with different mythology

Why does replacing one invented concept with another bring you closer to reality?

I provided a credible source that showed it is not mythological, and avoids making ancient mens mistakes still followed by most people today.

What source was that?

You are also still completely missing the point. When you said Olinda was wrong, she (?) was correct.

I'm not religious. Not arguing for religion. Not arguing for any ideology.

Just saying Dawkins' views have no objective grounding. They are myths like those he despises (myth doesn't mean ancient story or false either)

What is your evidence that humanism represents anything other than personal preference?

I'll reply if you deal with this, if not never mind.

 

[icehorse]

Hey Augustus,

If you're arguing for relativism, you've got yourself a fine "get out of jail free" card. Every conversation can be scuttled when you play the relativism card.

If you're not a relativist, are you claiming that morals came from a deity?

If not, then... ?

 

[outhouse]

You're not making sense

You need to actually read the definition then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism


Humanism is a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism, empiricism) over unthinking acceptance of dogma or superstition

 

[Augustus]

Hey Augustus,

If you're arguing for relativism, you've got yourself a fine "get out of jail free" card. Every conversation can be scuttled when you play the relativism card.

If you're not a relativist, are you claiming that morals came from a deity?

If not, then... ?

Human morality must have something to do with human nature. What about human history says humanism is our final destination?

Humans are animals, dogs don't follow caninism.

 

[dust1n]

But, the problem with utopian thinkers is that they can see the irrational utopianism in the ideas of others, but not within themselves.

Pst, I could fix that if I can ran the world.

 

[icehorse]

Human morality must have something to do with human nature. What about human history says humanism is our final destination?

Humans are animals, dogs don't follow caninism.

I don't think anyone here claimed that humanism is our final destination. I think that those of us who are siding with Dawkins in this case are saying that it's the best thing we've come up with so far. At least that's what I'd say.

 

[outhouse]

I don't think anyone here claimed that humanism is our final destination. I think that those of us who are siding with Dawkins in this case are saying that it's the best thing we've come up with so far. At least that's what I'd say.

Agreed.

What is better then not making ancient mens mythological mistakes of replacing reality with mythology, because they had little understanding of the natural world around them.