Mormon Church To US Supreme Court: Ban Gay Marriage

[JoStories]

No I did not. I said the reason why Christmas seems like it is not being celebrated as much is because the media, government and retail business have a high proportion of gays working in them who dampen the merriment. Nobody mentioned the media as there are mountains of evidence that proves that gays are very much over represented and in control, thus giving the impression that the world is accepting of the lifestyle. However, I was picked up on the politicians, and rightly so.

Are you serious with the nonsense?? It is not gays that have done a damn thing to Christmas. It is secular individuals and those who are Christian who play into the gifts and such for the children. They are forced by children's relentless screaming and crying and the parent's lack of ability to discipline their children that has made that holiday, which, btw, was stolen from Pagan religious rituals, more secular in nature. Similar to the Easter holiday which is now about bunnies and chocolate. Gays have nothing whatsoever to do with this. Its parents and children.

 

[JoStories]

Once in motion there cycle is controled by nature and the natural laws of the universe.

which were set up by God making God culpable. I don't know how obtuse one has to be to not get this.

 

[JoStories]

God had warned them for years that their behavior would bring them certain death, however, they ignored Him. How many warnings did God give to the prostitutes.

And yet Jesus was compassionate, accepting and caring about prostitutes in the NT. Seems if Jesus is God, then your analogy and assertion are completely false. Unless you are saying God and Jesus are different entities.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Even if that were true, it would be completely irrelevant.

It's the complete opposite of irrelevant because the Supreme Court rules on matters of law, not religion. This whole ruckus is being caused because people who think like you do either can't tell that there's a difference between marriage as it is recognised by religions (specifically yours) and marriage as it is recognised by law - or because you don't want there to be a difference. To put that another way, you'd rather the law of the land reflect your religion's definition of marriage - and to hell with both the Constitution & anyone who doesn't believe the same as you.

The fact remains that certain religions define "marriage" only one way.

That hasn't been affected by the Supreme Court ruling.

By changing the definition and then forcing members of the religion to "recognize" what they do not believe is true marriage, you are destroying their religious freedom.

Name one instance where this has happened.

 

[Serenity7855]

First of all, how do gay people dampen the merriment of Christmas? They don’t like Christmas?

Any way that they can. Why, because they do not believe in the birth of Christ, Christianity have been totally overtly honest about their stance on homosexuality which can cause those with a neurotic disposition to become retaliatory.

Secondly, you said that “95% of the worlds wealth belongs to these handful of atheists who control our governments and all media outlets, like the Belderberg Group of billionaires.”

Yes, absolutely true. let me show you how simply the objective reasoning is that brings me to the conclusion that these people are atheists. Jesus said, A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another, which obviously means that we should care and support those who have not. He also said he will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'. If we ignore our poor and afflicted then we ignore Christs teaching. If these people were Christian then there would be no starving children or poor and destitute people living in squaler. Just that fact tells me that they are not praticing Christians who follow the teaching of Jesus Christ. They are atheists, about that I have no doubt. Those pictures that I see on my TV of starving children are etched on my mind and I hold them responsible for it as much as much as I hold pharmaceutical companies for with holding new cures in order to milk the current ones. It is all about the bottom line. 2 billion dollar pay out for the twin towers after just a few months after buying it, and millions of dollors of government and big business debt wiped off when building 7 mysteriously and inexplicably fell into its own footprint at freefall speed, 2 truck loads of gold in the basement of the twin towers disappeared without a trace. A novice pilot was capable of doing the impossible by crashing a Boeing 747 Aeroplane into an small hole in the Pentagon leaving no trace and flying at 400 knots just 200 feet off the ground a physical impossibility. Only atheists and extremists are capable of such atrocities. but I digress.

When you posted that, another poster asked you to prove that all the world’s wealth is owned and driven by atheists, to which you responded with the following post:

“Ok, I may have slightly exaggerated but 32 MPs is a significant number.

Yes, and I stand by it.

Westminster becomes the world's gayest Parliament with 32 openly gay, lesbian and bisexual MPs

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lesbian-bisexual-MPs-compared-10-Holland.html

Global wealth inequality: top 1% own 41%; top 10% own 86%; bottom half own just 1%

https://thenextrecession.wordpress....nequality-10-own-86-1-own-41-half-own-just-1/

Big Business Increasingly Supports Gay Rights

From Chick-fil-A to Apple, more and more major companies are taking policy positions on gay marriage. Arguably, there’s a business case for supporting it. Google, Starbucks, Nike, General Mills, and other big brands have all opened themselves up to both the potential risk and opportunity of supporting LGBT equality. Even Lloyd Blankfein, CEO of Goldman Sachs, announced his support in a Human Rights Campaign public service announcement: “America’s corporations learned long ago that equality is just good business and it’s the right thing to do.”

There has been a steady increase in the number of large employers including sexual orientation in non-discrimination policies and offering same-sex partner benefits. A 2010 Mercer survey of about 3,000 companies found that same-sex benefits were offered by 72 percent of companies employing more than 20,000 people. Americans align themselves with brands that reflect their values — and according to recent opinion polls by Gallup, ABC, and CNN, marriage equality is now supported by a majority of mainstream Americans.
https://hbr.org/2012/09/big-business-increasingly-supp”

Yes, that is correct

Then I and another poster pointed out that gay people are still underrepresented in Parliament to which you replied, “32 is quite a few and can make a big difference.”

Yes, you did, which was quite a surprise as that is not what I was talking about. Yes, that too is correct and I stand by it

So it appears that you are the one who took your point off course by responding with stats about gay people rather than atheists having something to do with Christmas.

I used both as an example

Furthermore, I don’t see that Christmas isn’t being celebrated as much (at least where I live). Quite the opposite in fact – Christmas now starts the day after Halloween and lasts until at least New Year’s day. It’s a “season” rather than one day a year.

There is a difference in celebrating the arrival of a big fat man, dressed in red, who will shimmy down you chimney whilst you sleep and the birth of Christ, which is the real meaning of Christmas. In my country the celebration of His birth is very much discouraged. We are not even allowed to call the chocolate eggs we give away to our children at this time of year "Easter Eggs" because the Moslems here have complained about it.

Then why post the stuff about gay British MPs at all?

Because the posses the authority and power to take the Christ out of Christmas

As far as I can tell, gay people don’t hate Christmas.

That is your opinion.

Then why say this, “I was demonstrating that minorities can have dramatic effects on majorities.” ?

Because they can

 

[Serenity7855]

Such immoral ideas prove that YHVH is not God.

A real God, - and one whom supposedly put out that - DO NOT MURDER LAW, - would not then illogically and immorally murder the innocent, - for the crimes of others.

*

He didn't. You must be reading it subjectively.

 

[Demonslayer]

In my country the celebration of His birth is very much discouraged. We are not even allowed to call the chocolate eggs we give away to our children at this time of year "Easter Eggs" because the Moslems here have complained about it.

Where do you live?

 

[SkepticThinker]

They are natural disaster that are triggered by laws of the universe.

Nature laws of the Universe is basically Moral Accountability, or cause and effect. Bang your head against a brick wall and you end up with a headache. Act in a unrighteous, abominable, odious and reprehensible manner and you will be destroyed

A Natural Law is Gravity

natural law

noun

plural noun:natural laws

1. 1.
a body of unchanging moral principles regarded as a basis for all human conduct.
"an adjudication based on natural law"

2. 2.
an observable law relating to natural phenomena.
"the natural laws of perspective"

Once in motion there cycle is controlled by nature and the natural laws of the universe.


The Natural Laws of the Universal Consciousness.

There is a single, intelligent Consciousness that pervades the entire Universe - the Universal Mind. It is all knowing, all powerful, all creative and always present. As it is present everywhere at the same time, it follows that it must also be present in you - that it is you. Your mind is part of the one Universal Mind. This is not simply a philosophical ideal passed down to us through the ages. It is an exact scientific truth. Know it, believe it, apply it and you will see your life transform in miraculous ways. A law of the universe is not to disobey God as the universal consciousness will detect it and act accordingly. The universe is alive and awake. It hears everything you say and think and acts upon it. When enough of us become wicked and debaucherous then the universal mind reacts. God saw it coming and warned them. They didn't listen so they reaped the reward.

The Spiritual Law of ATTRACTION

“To better understand the Law of Attraction, see yourself as a magnet attracting unto you the essence of that which you are thinking and feeling. And so, if you are feeling fat, you cannot attract thin. If you are feeling poor, you cannot attract prosperity. And so on. It defies Law.

The more you come to understand the power of the Law of Attraction, the more interest you will have in deliberately directing your thoughts—for you get what you think about, whether you want it or not. Without exception, that which you give thought to is that which you begin to invite into your experience.”

http://www.mind-your-reality.com/universal_mind.html

niether would I, however, you are not God having His wisdom and Knowledge so it is a mote point.

Or we could just look at it a different way and notice that natural events just happen, and they are beyond our control. Why attach all this unnecessary baggage to it?

The "natural laws of the Universal Consciousness" are not scientific truth.

So god is the universe, and this universe will get you if you’re wicked and debaucherous, but only sometimes and only in some places and there’s no real way of knowing if you’ve been sent a hurricane or an earthquake just randomly or if it’s because you’ve been wicked and debaucherous. Or you can carry on with wicked actions indefinitely and nothing at all will happen to you.

This is simple, we do not see the whole picture whereas God does. That is why we should obey Him as he knows what is best for us. He knows when the universal laws will be evoked.

Sorry, I don’t blindly obey anybody, especially without any explanation. If something doesn’t make sense, I’m not going to just accept it and I don’t think anybody else should either.

I have to say, I find these kinds of assertions to be kind of strange. I mean, you seem to know (or claim to know) so much about this god you worship right down to the “spiritual laws of attraction” and “natural laws of the universal consciousness” and who this god punished in the past and exactly why, and on and on with the minutiae. But when you come upon a difficult question or a counterpoint, all of a sudden it’s all so mysterious and we can’t know the whole picture and who really knows.

Well no it is not. The people of the Old Testament were under the Mosaic Laws. The people of the New Testament, right up until the present day, are under the Abrahamic Covenant.

So that means what? That god no longer feels like warning people about their terrible and potentially natural disaster-inducing behavior?

it is not for me to judge them. God judges us all individually according to the environment that we exist in. You do not know the stories of these prostitutes and why they do what they do. Secondly, there is no comparison between the sins of the prostitutes and those of the people in Sodom and Gomorrah. So wicked were they that God found it necessary to warn them.

I didn’t ask you to judge them. I’m trying to point out that natural disasters have nothing to do with people’s behavior and there’s really no evidence to indicate that we should believe that. Naturally disasters apparently just happen without rhyme or reason.

.

Read the stories in the Old Testament.

I have read them. I am talking about now. How do we determine the next time there is a natural disaster whether it is just random or the result of somebody’s sinfulness?

Not at all, we do not live under the Mosaic Laws anymore.

So god used to get human beings to carry out his dirty work for him, but changed his mind and decided not to do that anymore, but he still sends natural disasters to punish people?

Because we know that we do not live under the Mosaic Laws anymore. That woman will be judged in accordance with the Abrahamic Covenant.

Just as a matter of interest, what would be the reason for a perfect God to influence a mother to kill her children. What would be the greater good, as God cannot do no wrong, if He could then He would cease to be God. The people in Sodom and Gomorrah were unimaginably wicked, so much so that the crossed the line and the universe responded.

I don’t know. You’re the one saying that we can’t see the whole picture like this god can and that this god knows what’s best for us, even if we don’t. So maybe there is some greater cause to that woman murdering her children that we just can’t understand (according to your line of reasoning). Maybe her kids were going to grow up to be serial killers or something. Who knows.

Well yes, of course it would, you have not been touched by the Spirit of God. The eyes of your understanding have yet to be opened.

And that looks like a cop out to me too. You just said we can’t understand why god does what “he” does and that there’s a bigger picture we can’t understand.

Because I know that the Mosaic Laws were fulfilled by Jesus during the Sermon on the Mount. We will not be allowed to reach the wickedness of Sodom and Gomorrah ever again as the second coming will precede that point.[/QUOTE]Oh okay, so natural disasters aren’t punishment from god then?

 

[Serenity7855]

I have no idea what you think you were proving by this post because what you said was that the world's wealth was all held by atheists. You said:

You are misrepresenting me again. I didn't say that the world's wealth was all held by atheists. What I said was that 95% of the worlds wealth is held by just 5% of the population of the world. I was wrong, it is, according to this article, 99% is held by atheists and just 1% is owned by the poor and needy. Those 1% have membership in groups such as the Beilderberg Group of billionaires who influence the governments of the world, and you think that 32 MPs can't influence the Bristish governmey. If 62 individuals,or 13 families, have influence over world wide governments then it is more than plausible that 32 gays can dampen down the celebration of the birth of Christ. To think otherwise is blinker visioned and naive.

The reason that it seems like nobody celebrates it now is because almost all major media companies, most politicians and retail company executives and owners are atheists who control what we see and what we don't see. 95% of the worlds wealth belongs to these handful of atheists who control our governments and all media outlets, like the Belderberg Group of billionaires. So, you got it wrong. Christianity will be with us until Jesus Christ returns in all His Glory and majesty and we will be fighting these handful of dictators until He does..

You will note what I bolded and underlined. That was what I asked to you prove. This other....I will address separately but this is NOT what I asked you to prove.[/QUOTE]

Like all inductive reasoning, that is not a problem for me to answer, just like all of the prepositions you have tried to discredit God with and failed. Nobody has been able to do it for 2000 years so the chances of a lone wolf on a debating forum is pretty slim, but here goes. This is the same answer that I gave Skeptic Thinker. Let me show you how simply the objective reasoning is that brings me to the conclusion that these people are atheists. Jesus said, A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another, which obviously means that we should care and support those who have not. He also said he will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'. If we ignore our poor and afflicted then we ignore Christs teaching. If these people were Christian then there would be no starving children or poor and destitute people living in squalor. Just that fact tells me that they are not praticing Christians who follow the teaching of Jesus Christ. They are atheists, about that I have no doubt. Those pictures that I see on my TV of starving children are etched on my mind and I hold them responsible for it as much as much as I hold pharmaceutical companies for with holding new cures in order to milk the current ones. It is all about the bottom line. 2 billion dollar pay out for the twin towers after just a few months after buying it, and millions of dollors of government and big business debt wiped off when building 7 mysteriously and inexplicably fell into its own footprint at freefall speed, 2 truck loads of gold in the basement of the twin towers disappeared without a trace. A novice pilot was capable of doing the impossible by crashing a Boeing 747 Aeroplane into an small hole in the Pentagon leaving no trace and flying at 400 knots just 200 feet off the ground a physical impossibility. Only atheists and extremists are capable of such atrocities. but I digress.

 

[Serenity7855]

Where do you live?

Wales in the UK. If you are around this way pop in for a cuppa.

 

[Serenity7855]

Are you serious with the nonsense?? It is not gays that have done a damn thing to Christmas. It is secular individuals and those who are Christian who play into the gifts and such for the children. They are forced by children's relentless screaming and crying and the parent's lack of ability to discipline their children that has made that holiday, which, btw, was stolen from Pagan religious rituals, more secular in nature. Similar to the Easter holiday which is now about bunnies and chocolate. Gays have nothing whatsoever to do with this. Its parents and children.

No, it was not stolen from Pagan religious rituals, they still have there and Christ was born in April but the celebration of his birth was moved to December.

It is my opinion that gays and atheists have taken the Christ out of Christmas because the are in key positions to be able to do that, especially in the media industry.

Parents and children follow societies norm. Government and the media industry set those norms.

 

[Demonslayer]

Wales in the UK. If you are around this way pop in for a cuppa.

My advice is, keep saying "Easter Eggs" and screw anyone who doesn't like it.

Always wanted to check out Wales...I've never been to the UK.

 

[Serenity7855]

which were set up by God making God culpable. I don't know how obtuse one has to be to not get this.

Maybe as obtuse and ignorant to science as you are. It is the universal mind that reacts to evil not God. He just warns us to stop it or else. Not a hard concept to grasp and borne out by science as well. Do you know anything about quantum physics. If you do then meet God, in my opinion.

 

[Serenity7855]

My advice is, keep saying "Easter Eggs" and screw anyone who doesn't like it.

Always wanted to check out Wales...I've never been to the UK.

That is exactly what I do.

Wales is called the garden of the UK. It is very beautiful here. Ask Katspur, she came across here last September.

 

[Serenity7855]

And yet Jesus was compassionate, accepting and caring about prostitutes in the NT. Seems if Jesus is God, then your analogy and assertion are completely false. Unless you are saying God and Jesus are different entities.

Why would you think that they are not separate entities. Throughout the Bible God and Jesus are portrayed as separate individuals. When Jesus said, father, forgive them they no not what they do. who was he talking to, himself. Their are many such examples that prove that God and Christ are two separate and distinct individuals.

 

[Demonslayer]

That is exactly what I do.

Good, because I keep hearing about this War on Christmas, and yet every Christmas season I see the malls decorated, Christmas Carols playing on the radio, Christmas specials on TV, etc, etc. I hear people saying "we can't say Merry Christmas anymore" and yet I hear people saying Merry Christmas all the time.

Methinks this "war" is mostly in the minds of the very religious, to whom a mere mention of "Happy Holidays" counts as some sort of attack on their faith.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Good, because I keep hearing about this War on Christmas, and yet every Christmas season I see the malls decorated, Christmas Carols playing on the radio, Christmas specials on TV, etc, etc. I hear people saying "we can't say Merry Christmas anymore" and yet I hear people saying Merry Christmas all the time.

Methinks this "war" is mostly in the minds of the very religious, to whom a mere mention of "Happy Holidays" counts as some sort of attack on their faith.

It pretty much is because for some people Christianity only ever makes sense in a combative, confrontational context e.g. them vs. the sinful world, them vs. the unbelievers etc. Their Christian faith isn't likely to be strengthened if they're not being 'persecuted' for something...

 

[SkepticThinker]

Any way that they can. Why, because they do not believe in the birth of Christ, Christianity have been totally overtly honest about their stance on homosexuality which can cause those with a neurotic disposition to become retaliatory.

What ways would “any way they can” be? They don’t seem to be doing a very good job of it.


As Joe Stories pointed out, Christmas isn’t just about Christ anymore. It’s about family, gift giving, Santa Claus, consumerism, etc. Heck, I’m an atheist and I celebrate Christmas and have no desire to get rid of it. It’s my favourite time of year.

Yes, absolutely true. let me show you how simply the objective reasoning is that brings me to the conclusion that these people are atheists. Jesus said, A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another, which obviously means that we should care and support those who have not. He also said he will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'. If we ignore our poor and afflicted then we ignore Christs teaching. If these people were Christian then there would be no starving children or poor and destitute people living in squaler. Just that fact tells me that they are not praticing Christians who follow the teaching of Jesus Christ. They are atheists, about that I have no doubt. Those pictures that I see on my TV of starving children are etched on my mind and I hold them responsible for it as much as much as I hold pharmaceutical companies for with holding new cures in order to milk the current ones. It is all about the bottom line. 2 billion dollar pay out for the twin towers after just a few months after buying it, and millions of dollors of government and big business debt wiped off when building 7 mysteriously and inexplicably fell into its own footprint at freefall speed, 2 truck loads of gold in the basement of the twin towers disappeared without a trace. A novice pilot was capable of doing the impossible by crashing a Boeing 747 Aeroplane into an small hole in the Pentagon leaving no trace and flying at 400 knots just 200 feet off the ground a physical impossibility. Only atheists and extremists are capable of such atrocities. but I digress.

Well, I don’t know, the US is full of Christians and yet there are millions of people living in poverty all over the country. So maybe it takes more than just Christianity to solve all our problems.

I give money to charity and I donate clothing to the poor. I am an atheist. Bill Gates donated $1 billion to charity last year (he founded the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation), and he’s an atheist too. Warren Buffett (also an atheist) donated almost $3 billion to charity last year (and does so on a yearly basis). So I guess I’m wondering what you’re talking about.

How do you know that the pharmaceutical companies are withholding cures from us?

I’m not getting into the 9/11 conspiracy stuff. Sorry.

Yes, and I stand by it.

I don’t know why you would because it contradicts your own point.

Yes, you did, which was quite a surprise as that is not what I was talking about. Yes, that too is correct and I stand by it

But it does relate to what you were talking about. First you said it was a vast majority and then corrected that. But that was supposed to be your point in the first place. So if it didn’t pan out, shouldn’t you drop it?

In pointing out that gay people are still underrepresented in Parliament even though 5% of British MPs are gay or bisexual, I was attempting to show you that there’s clearly not some gay conspiracy going on to end Christmas and take over the world, rather these MPs are there representing the people, which is what they are supposed to be doing.

I used both as an example

There is a difference in celebrating the arrival of a big fat man, dressed in red, who will shimmy down you chimney whilst you sleep and the birth of Christ, which is the real meaning of Christmas.

That’s the real meaning, for you. It has all kinds of meanings to all kinds of different people. I don’t celebrate the birth of Christ at Christmas. You don’t really think Jesus was born on December 25th/Winter Solstice, do you?

In my country the celebration of His birth is very much discouraged. We are not even allowed to call the chocolate eggs we give away to our children at this time of year "Easter Eggs" because the Moslems here have complained about it.

I see a lot of people saying things like that around here too but I usually find it to be exaggerated and overblown. People seem to think we can’t say “Merry Christmas” anymore but I’ve never actually met anybody who said it to anybody and received some terribly negative response for it. I mentioned on another thread somewhere around here how I accidently wished a Muslim woman a Merry Christmas once and she just wished me one right back (instead of getting upset about it).

But really, who can tell you what you choose to celebrate in the comfort of your own home? Surely nobody is coming to your Christmas celebrations and shutting them down because you’re celebrating the birth of Christ.

Because the posses the authority and power to take the Christ out of Christmas

How on earth can they do that? Do they control you personally?

That is your opinion.

Yes, well I don’t see any reason to think that gay people, specifically, have something against Christmas.

Because they can

You told me that was not the point you were making.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Good, because I keep hearing about this War on Christmas, and yet every Christmas season I see the malls decorated, Christmas Carols playing on the radio, Christmas specials on TV, etc, etc. I hear people saying "we can't say Merry Christmas anymore" and yet I hear people saying Merry Christmas all the time.

Methinks this "war" is mostly in the minds of the very religious, to whom a mere mention of "Happy Holidays" counts as some sort of attack on their faith.

This ^^^^

 

[sojourner]

You can interpret the scriptures that way if you wish, but I would remind you of Peter's teaching that the scriptures should not be of any private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20).
It's not a "private" interpretation. Fact is, unless we know exactly what is being condemned, we can't come up with any interpretation based on solid exegesis. Leaping to conclusions based on an incomplete knowledge is hardly giving "God's word" its due, don't you think?

Ancient and modern scripture agree that homosexuality is a sin.

No it doesn't. No universally -recognized canon of Christian scripture "agrees that homosexuality is a sin." Lying about it doesn't magically make it true.

That is hypocritical of you because the Supreme Court, through their redefining of what marriage is and its purposes, has "foisted" their belief in regards to marriage upon society through legislation.

No they haven't. They're not forcing anyone to do anything -- other than to recognize equal rights under the law. If you don't believe in homosexual marriage, no one's twisting your tail to enter into a marriage contract with a homosexual.

On a religious forum website, my religious beliefs and opinions are far from immaterial.

You think someone's opinion is only "material" when the loudest people agree with them?

No, but you seem to think that your opinion is entitled to more weight than either the law, science, or biblical exegesis.

I don't know what this means. What is a "non-term"? Is that related to court or school?

"Gender confusion" is a non-term, because it doesn't describe anything real in this context. it's a hyperbolic term derived from fear and misunderstanding. Therefore, it's a non-term.