mormonism racist?

[DeepShadow]

Another possibility is that the racism expressed in the book is, like all racisms throughout history, not total, or not totally consistent/coherent. Racism is not an all-or-nothing phenomenon.

I would agree, bearing in mind that I believe the book's racism is coming from narrators, not from a single author. That is, the narrators WORDS are racist, but the overarching STORY is actually quite egalitarian. If anything, the story is about racist Nephites learning what's really important.

 

[DeepShadow]

In all of these cases, despite the "non-racist" actions, I think it's fair to say the racist actions remain racist.....and in the BoM lines about God cursing people with a skin of blackness, and contrasting this with being "white and delightsome" is racist if anything is.

Unless this is a racist/bigoted narrator's interpretation of events. God may have done nothing more than tell them not to intermarry with unbelievers, and pointed out that they could tell the unbelievers by their darker skin. Bigotry fills in the rest.

 

[cardero]

Unless this is a racist/bigoted narrator's interpretation of events. God may have done nothing more than tell them not to intermarry with unbelievers, and pointed out that they could tell the unbelievers by their darker skin.

Isn't deciding not to marry someone because they are of a different creed a form of prejudice?

 

[DeepShadow]

Isn't deciding not to marry someone because they are of a different creed a form of prejudice?

Only in the most literal sense. If you have different values, different goals, etc., I don't think deciding not to marry is a bad idea. These creeds are much more substantial than mere family ties.

Do you think an atheist is prejudiced when (s)he refuses to marry a fundamentalist Christian? I don't.

 

[cardero]

Do you think an atheist is prejudiced when (s)he refuses to marry a fundamentalist Christian? I don't.

I don’t think atheist’s have a deity that would integrate a doctrine that would involve telling the non-believer not to marry someone on the basis that their partner was a believer.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Unless this is a racist/bigoted narrator's interpretation of events. God may have done nothing more than tell them not to intermarry with unbelievers, and pointed out that they could tell the unbelievers by their darker skin. Bigotry fills in the rest.

Valid points, all.

(Of course you could also say God's involvement in the first place was merely the superstitious narrator's (or author's) interpretation of events....God may have done nothing at all, some people simply have darker skin for natural reasons, conflict and superstition fills in the rest.)

 

[DeepShadow]

I don’t think atheist’s have a deity that would integrate a doctrine that would involve telling the non-believer not to marry someone on the basis that their partner was a believer.

You're missing the point; let's break it down. Beliefs are one of the factors in choosing a life partner, would you agree?

 

[Sunstone]

Beliefs are one of the factors in choosing a life partner, would you agree?

I saw a study on that once. For fundamentalists, beliefs are more a factor in choosing a partner than for more liberal religious groups.

 

[Watchmen]

I saw a study on that once. For fundamentalists, beliefs are more a factor in choosing a partner than for more liberal religious groups.

Hogwash.

Beliefs are not-religious specific. An atheist has beliefs too. Are you saying an atheists beliefs would not be a factor when considering whether or not to marry a theist?

 

[Autodidact]

Hogwash.

Beliefs are not-religious specific. An atheist has beliefs too. Are you saying an atheists beliefs would not be a factor when considering whether or not to marry a theist?

Actually I believe that what he said is that when comparing fundamentalists to more liberal religionists, the fundamentalists tend to find shared beliefs a more important factor in choosing a partner.

I don't think he said anything at all about atheists in particular, nor did he say that beliefs would not be a factor for the liberals, just less of a factor than for fundamentalists.

 

[Watchmen]

But DeepShadow's post wasn't limited to religionists. His was a general question about beliefs. Sunstone's post attempted to limit the scope of DeepShadow's question.

 

[DeepShadow]

Thanks, Watchmen. Yeah, that's an interesting study--do you a have a source? Nevertheless, comparing different religionists doesn't extrapolate very well outside the boundaries of the study does it?

Anyway, this is about beliefs as a factor in selecting a partner, and how great a role they play. To tie this back to the thread, in what sense is this prejudiced or racist?

 

[Quiddity]

Actually I believe that what he said is that when comparing fundamentalists to more liberal religionists, the fundamentalists tend to find shared beliefs a more important factor in choosing a partner.

I don't think he said anything at all about atheists in particular, nor did he say that beliefs would not be a factor for the liberals, just less of a factor than for fundamentalists.

Maybe watchmen was indicating that atheist can also be fundamentalist?

Or maybe a liberal is only tolerant if he/she is not marrying a fundamentalist?

 

[DeepShadow]

Heh yeah! If an atheist wants to marry a fundamentalist who doesn't want to marry him back, does that count as fundamentalist exclusion or atheist inclusion, or both? Maybe neither?

 

[Katzpur]

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned: if the Book of Mormon is racist against dark skin, why is the most righteous group in the book (People of Ammon) dark skinned? And the most wicked (Gadianton robbers) light skinned? Anyone want to field that one?

At last, my mentor returns. :yes: And I've been on vacation for a week so I've missed the latest posts on this thread. Why are you never here when we need you most?

 

[maklelan]

Yes Mormonism is extremely racist, not long ago blacks couldn't even become ordained.

They couldn't in the Old Testament either. In fact, only one family could be ordained. How bigoted. In the New Testament the gospel was only meant for the Jews until well after Christ's death. Also bigoted. Men are the only ones who can be ordained in most Christian religions these days. Very bigoted.

We should also deal with the bigotry of mother nature, though. We don't want any bigots to get away unchastised. Only women can give birth. How sexist. Only men can get prostate cancer. Also sexist. For shame.

Given that Mormonism originated in 19th century America it's hardly surprising.

Given that 19th century Mormonism also opposed slavery and Joseph Smith ordained a black man to the priesthood, I think your assessment is rather reductionist and naive.

How anyone can still believe in this vile rubbish is astounding.

As compared to how anyone could believe in a talking donkey and a worldwide flood, or compared to believing something else?

 

[Sola'lor]

We should also deal with the bigotry of mother nature, though. We don't want any bigots to get away unchastised. Only women can give birth. How sexist. Only men can get prostate cancer. Also sexist. For shame.

We must wipe all bigotry from the face of the EARTH!!!:fork:

 

[tomasortega]

wow this is amazing, i opened this thread not too long ago, then i took a break from this site and now its at around 350 posts?

 

[tomasortega]

They couldn't in the Old Testament either. In fact, only one family could be ordained. How bigoted. In the New Testament the gospel was only meant for the Jews until well after Christ's death. Also bigoted. Men are the only ones who can be ordained in most Christian religions these days. Very bigoted.

We should also deal with the bigotry of mother nature, though. We don't want any bigots to get away unchastised. Only women can give birth. How sexist. Only men can get prostate cancer. Also sexist. For shame.



Given that 19th century Mormonism also opposed slavery and Joseph Smith ordained a black man to the priesthood, I think your assessment is rather reductionist and naive.



As compared to how anyone could believe in a talking donkey and a worldwide flood, or compared to believing something else?

very pubescent how you attempt to justify the bigotry in mormonism by pointing out bigotry in christianity and judaism.

like a little 4th grader justifying his mocking of a mentally retarded classmate by saying "but everyone else did it!"

besides, you are only destroying your own argument by pointing out bigotry in the bible because mormons also believe in the absurdities of the old and new testament. mormons simply took it to the next level in lala land by adding their own book to the mix

 

[Watchmen]

Don't you mean prepubescent??? If you're going to insult someone, try to do it right.