Mormons; the Problem of Iron, Alcohol & the Wheel

[rrosskopf]

Sure, they are irrelevant to the conversation, the papyrii and such are just supporting evidence for the likeliness of your self-delusion.

Have you ever had someone give you an answer that made so little sense as to completely disavow you of any sense that they heard what you said? This topic is about anachronisms in the Book of Mormon. THE PHOTOGRAPHS ARE STRONG EVIDENCE THAT THE BOOK OF MORMON WAS WRITTEN IN A LANGUAGE DERIVED FROM THE EGYPTIAN DEMOTIC. "reformed" Egyptian was one of the earliest supposed anachronisms of the Book of Mormon. Yet I have shown photographic evidence that the plates did have reformed Egyptian characters inscribed thereon.

 

[Shad]

Have you ever had someone give you an answer that made so little sense as to completely disavow you of any sense that they heard what you said? This topic is about anachronisms in the Book of Mormon. THE PHOTOGRAPHS ARE STRONG EVIDENCE THAT THE BOOK OF MORMON WAS WRITTEN IN A LANGUAGE DERIVED FROM THE EGYPTIAN DEMOTIC. "reformed" Egyptian was one of the earliest supposed anachronisms of the Book of Mormon. Yet I have shown photographic evidence that the plates did have reformed Egyptian characters inscribed thereon.

Reformed Egyptian is a made up language by Smith. It has zero evidence outside of your book and Smith's claims.

 

[Sapiens]

There aren't as many as you think. Most religions are based on mythology. They claim that ancestors were witnesses, based on something written and passed down through the ages, but the original statements have long since disappeared, and all that is left is the myth. That isn't the case with Mormonism. The restoration of the Lord's church happened in modern times while the world watched.

Which is why the lies are so easy to detect.

 

[Sapiens]

I've had heartburn many times. It was never accompanied with voices. Nor did it feel anything like the Holy Ghost. It sounds like you are desperate to believe that your reality is more real than mine, that your lack of perception somehow trumps my perception. Yet many times the Holy Ghost has led me to do things that have changed peoples lives for the better. At first I kind of fought with it, but now I've grown to trust it. It has also revealed to me future events, that I have watched take place. That is rare; I'm not the mage of all things future; but it has proven itself to me. My faith consists of trusting a being that does exist, and not in believing in a being who may or may not exist. It has also taught me things about human nature, and revealed the meaning of obscure scriptures, and even helped me shop. It lifts me up when I'm depressed, and inspires me to achieve more than my own nature would conceive. It has filled me with indescribable happiness on occasion and is a constant source of encouragement. Without it, my life would be but a shadow of what it is, and my past a shadow of what it could have been.
I am nothing special. You too could lead a life where you knew there was a God, a life where you would be continually inspired by the Holy Ghost, touching the lives of others deeply and profoundly. Your peers might then believe that you are completely crazy, but one person - you - the person that matters, would not. You could know just as assuredly as I know, that the universe is not without love, and not without intelligence.

So you have at least two different types of heartburn. I am not desperate to believe anything, I have no beliefs, you on the other hand appear desperate to authenticate the impossible ... that my friend is the price of belief rather than the seeking of truth.

 

[Sapiens]

Have you ever had someone give you an answer that made so little sense as to completely disavow you of any sense that they heard what you said? This topic is about anachronisms in the Book of Mormon. THE PHOTOGRAPHS ARE STRONG EVIDENCE THAT THE BOOK OF MORMON WAS WRITTEN IN A LANGUAGE DERIVED FROM THE EGYPTIAN DEMOTIC. "reformed" Egyptian was one of the earliest supposed anachronisms of the Book of Mormon. Yet I have shown photographic evidence that the plates did have reformed Egyptian characters inscribed thereon.

There are no non-affiliated experts who take your claims seriously, only Mormon apologists.

 

[rrosskopf]

It has zero evidence outside of your book and Smith's claims.

And the photographs. Don't forget the photographs comparing the Egyptian Demotic to the Nephite script.

 

[Shad]

And the photographs. Don't forget the photographs comparing the Egyptian Demotic to the Nephite script.

You mean photographs of a made up language? Having photographs does not make the language a real one no more than "gahgla ja;a kja;jfaf a;kfjd;" make a real language because I post it here. No non-Moron Egyptologist even considered "reformed Egyptian" at all.

 

[rrosskopf]

You mean photographs of a made up language? Having photographs does not make the language a real one no more than "gahgla ja;a kja;jfaf a;kfjd;" make a real language because I post it here. No non-Moron Egyptologist even considered "reformed Egyptian" at all.

You obviously, haven't even read the article. Read it, and then we can have a real conversation.

 

[Shad]

You obviously, haven't even read the article. Read it, and then we can have a real conversation.

No need, I already know how a specific discipline of my field views your made up language. Your article does nothing to change the fact that "reformed Egyptian" is not taught or even considered a language by the people that are experts in ancient Egyptian language forms. Beside there is no article for me to read, just comments from you about the language.

 

[Sapiens]

No need, I already know how a specific discipline of my field views your made up language. Your article does nothing to change the fact that "reformed Egyptian" is not taught or even considered a language by the people that are experts in ancient Egyptian language forms. Beside there is no article for me to read, just comments from you about the language.

Reformed Egyptian is complete and utter nonsense.

 

[rrosskopf]

There are no non-affiliated experts who take your claims seriously, only Mormon apologists.

That's all that one could reasonably hope for. I don't see atheists jumping at the chance to take the Book of Mormon seriously. Most won't even bother to look. Their loss.

One of the anachronisms in the Book of Mormon was a Nephite system of weights and measures. Although the chapter heading was erroneously titled coins, it is clear from the description that these were weights used for measuring grain. It is also an anachronism in Joseph Smith's day, where such a system was unheard of. It wasn't an anachronism in 6th century BC Egypt or Jerusalem, where both countries had similar, if not identical, systems. http://ancientamerica.org/library/media/HTML/a0unccm4/136 Nephite Weights and measures.htm?n=0
http://ancientamerica.org/library/media/HTML/8hzhox5n/23. MESOAMERICAN WEIGHTS AND MEASURES.htm?n=0

 

[prometheus11]

That's all that one could reasonably hope for. I don't see atheists jumping at the chance to take the Book of Mormon seriously. Most won't even bother to look. Their loss.

One of the anachronisms in the Book of Mormon was a Nephite system of weights and measures. Although the chapter heading was erroneously titled coins, it is clear from the description that these were weights used for measuring grain. It is also an anachronism in Joseph Smith's day, where such a system was unheard of. It wasn't an anachronism in 6th century BC Egypt or Jerusalem, where both countries had similar, if not identical, systems. http://ancientamerica.org/library/media/HTML/a0unccm4/136 Nephite Weights and measures.htm?n=0
http://ancientamerica.org/library/media/HTML/8hzhox5n/23. MESOAMERICAN WEIGHTS AND MEASURES.htm?n=0

If you could show WHY atheists are "losing" to not believe, you would really have something.

 

[rrosskopf]

No need, I already know how a specific discipline of my field views your made up language. Your article does nothing to change the fact that "reformed Egyptian" is not taught or even considered a language by the people that are experts in ancient Egyptian language forms. Beside there is no article for me to read, just comments from you about the language.

That's what happens when you miss the first part of a conversation. You blather on about stuff that is irrelevant. http://www.shields-research.org/Scriptures/BoM/Anthon_Transcript-Crowley/1942_02-IE.PDF
Note the little "r"; there are several scripts that could be referred to as reformed Egyptian. The Demotic and the Hieratic are the two most notable, but there are others. Phoenician letters also came from the Egyptian. Now if you meant to say that there are no university classes on the Nephite script, you would be correct. We don't have a big enough sample base to crack the code or learn the language. It is only big enough to see the obvious influence of the Egyptian Demotic. To prove me wrong, all you have to do is prove that the Egyptian Demotic Dictionary, quoted in the article, with photographs, was a scam.

 

[Shad]

Reformed Egyptian is complete and utter nonsense.

It's nothing more than doodling passed off as a language. It has no similarity to any form of Egpytian

That's all that one could reasonably hope for. I don't see atheists jumping at the chance to take the Book of Mormon seriously. Most won't even bother to look. Their loss.

One of the anachronisms in the Book of Mormon was a Nephite system of weights and measures. Although the chapter heading was erroneously titled coins, it is clear from the description that these were weights used for measuring grain. It is also an anachronism in Joseph Smith's day, where such a system was unheard of. It wasn't an anachronism in 6th century BC Egypt or Jerusalem, where both countries had similar, if not identical, systems. http://ancientamerica.org/library/media/HTML/a0unccm4/136 Nephite Weights and measures.htm?n=0
http://ancientamerica.org/library/media/HTML/8hzhox5n/23. MESOAMERICAN WEIGHTS AND MEASURES.htm?n=0

Your source is unpublished and replies upon your religious supposition. Beside people did have systems to measure grain and have for centuries. Both the imperial and US customs were reformed in the same century Smith lived. Your ignorance of such a system is not an argument. Your own citation shows that such weight systems existed. Also you own reference contradicts itself.

"The important idea that the reader should grasp here is that, although the proportions are not quite exactly the same as the Nephite system, the Guatemala Indians were using a weights and measure system, a custom that had its origins long before the advent of avoidupois ounces"

"My brass measures set from Guatemala has five cups. A plug which fills the smallest cup weighs the same as the cup. Each cup doubles the previous in both weight and volume measure. The four cups with the plug equal the fifth container cup with the lid. If I just use the four cups and plug without the lid cup, they match the Book of Mormon system of higher measures exactly- (1+2+4=7).”"

It helps reading what you link so others do not need to show you errors you could of found yourself.

 

[Shad]

That's what happens when you miss the first part of a conversation. You blather on about stuff that is irrelevant. http://www.shields-research.org/Scriptures/BoM/Anthon_Transcript-Crowley/1942_02-IE.PDF

http://www.shields-research.org/Scriptures/BoM/Anthon_Transcript-Crowley/1942_02-IE.PDF

Useless tripe. I have symbols on my keyboard that resemble Egyptian. If I remove the dot from the question mark it looks like Egyptian.... a shepherd's crook. Congratulations on find symbols that look similar but is gibberish if treated as actually Egyptian. Each one of these similarities can also be used in reference to other scripts. Heck some of the figures look like modern numbers. I see a 2s, 3s, 4s. Heck figure 64 is a dot... dots are one of the most common symbols in written languages.... Heck using your standards I could claim every instants of a J is really an I. The tail is just the writing style not an actual letter. Heck maybe W is really Egyptian. After all if we allow symbols not only to change but shift angles why not? Figure 160 to be exact. Nevermind that Crowley is an attorney not an linguists nor Egyptologist. Argument from authority. More so he only argues could be and does nothing to support his speculation beside faith and a creative imagination. Consider such speculation is rejected by experts.

Note the little "r"; there are several scripts that could be referred to as reformed Egyptian. The Demotic and the Hieratic are the two most notable, but there are others. Phoenician letters also came from the Egyptian. Now if you meant to say that there are no university classes on the Nephite script, you would be correct. We don't have a big enough sample base to crack the code or learn the language. It is only big enough to see the obvious influence of the Egyptian Demotic. To prove me wrong, all you have to do is prove that the Egyptian Demotic Dictionary, quoted in the article, with photographs, was a scam.

\

Note my argument about Js and Is. I guess I just made "reformed" English. I have no need to prove you wrong as you have not proven you are even correct. I didn't say your faith language was not taught. I said it is not even considered Egyptian at all. It is a made up language unique to your religion and your religion only.

 

[rrosskopf]

If you could show WHY atheists are "losing" to not believe, you would really have something.

When one doesn't believe in God, they lose out on the society of God.

 

[rrosskopf]

Your source is unpublished and replies upon your religious supposition.

Yeah, I was being lazy. There are several published articles, but finding them on the internet is problematic. The site with the best article has a broken search engine. As a programmer, that stuff drives me mad. What's the point of a large library of university level articles, if one cannot find them? In this case, the search engine does find the articles; but clicking on the results redirects to the home page. I'll see if I can find a better source for you.

 

[prometheus11]

When one doesn't believe in God, they lose out on the society of God.

Not accepted. "Society of God" cannot be distinguished from fantasy.

 

[Sapiens]

Not accepted. "Society of God" cannot be distinguished from fantasy.

It is like giving up a promised pony ride on a unicorn, nothing at all lost.

 

[rrosskopf]

I have symbols on my keyboard that resemble Egyptian.

Yes, English too borrows from the Egyptian, and could be called reformed Egyptian. Most modern alphabets trace back to Egyptian. That is why one must compare all of the symbols, noting both the similarities and differences, and the complexity of the letters. Take for example, the 10 most complex symbols from the small sample of Nephite, and see if they are similar to anything that Joseph Smith could have seen/read, etc. Then compare them to the Demotic, and see if they are similar to those. I have compared the symbols to several ancient scripts, and the only hole-in-one is the Demotic, a language that was used by traders to Egyptian in 600 BC., a language which Nephi could have known. To chalk it up to coincidence is naive. It is true that the Rosetta stone had been found, and perhaps some of these characters were on it; perhaps a local newspaper published photos of some of them; that would be a strong argument that Joseph Smith or someone else copied the letters from the photographs, but after 180 years, no such source has been found. Joseph Smith was a poorly educated farmer, who didn't like to read. He had about 3 years of formal schooling. So, yes - I find the photographs to be compelling evidence, whether peer reviewed or not.