Mosque at Ground Zero

[Shadow Wolf]

At this moment the only mosque near WTC is Madjid Manhattan, and that has been at the same location(until their lease ended and they moved two doors down) for 30-some years.

This information was actually kinda hard to find. The closest mosque is only alittle over a mile away (probably not by New York standards, but here that would put it about 5 blocks away.) There is also another community center only four blocks away. And there are 100's of mosques throughout New York.
Growing Number of Mosques in New York City « Fox News Insider
Nothing new about mosques in New York - CNN.com
How many miles is the closest mosque to the Ground Zero site? - Yahoo! Answers
And lets not forget about the strip clubs and other shady businesses that, if this is really an issue of morality and sacredness of the site, have already stripped the area of any since of morality and sacredness.

 

[Kathryn]

Bwahahahahah.... :biglaugh:

God I love the "you have a victim complex" card... :slap:

Seriously though... what the flip does anything you posted about history (regardless of your thinking it's accurate or not) have to do with letting someone build a house of worship anywhere? It's totally irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Why do you feel Muslims don't get that right, while others do?

wa:do

Earth to Painted Wolf, Earth to Painted Wolf.

You are proving my point about judgmentalism and kneejerk reactions to those you perceive as "the enemy." I have stated repeatedly that I support the rights of Muslims to build the islamic center/mosque near Ground Zero, but - for some weird reason, you just ignore that and insist on MISREPRESENTING my position.

Demonizing the alleged opposition. Really - it's so obvious...and so sad.

 

[Rakhel]

I honestly don't understand why we are quibbling over where the nearest mosque is but the here we go again.

Masjid Manhattan is 0.2 miles away from the WTC. It has been a mosque since 1970. It is on their webpage.
Masjid Manhattan

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I honestly don't understand why we are quibbling over where the nearest mosque is but the here we go again.

I don't know. Probably because opponents of this community center have been saying to have a mosque 5 blocks, 10 blocks, 20 blocks, and so on. But the fact is, is that within whatever distance they give there is already at least one Mosque.

 

[Rakhel]

The strip clubs and bars concerns are that once Park51 moves in, the imam will use law to shut them down as was done here: West Broadway Bars Facing License Ban

 

[painted wolf]

Earth to Painted Wolf, Earth to Painted Wolf.

You are proving my point about judgmentalism and kneejerk reactions to those you perceive as "the enemy." I have stated repeatedly that I support the rights of Muslims to build the islamic center/mosque near Ground Zero, but - for some weird reason, you just ignore that and insist on MISREPRESENTING my position.

Demonizing the alleged opposition. Really - it's so obvious...and so sad.

You are the one that said I was playing "the victim card".... If you want to be the "victim" now that's ok with me.

I was wondering what point you had in posting the random junk. Like the "camel milkers" insult.

Otherwise hooray for you. (sorry if I misunderstood your position)
I never demonize my enemy btw. Nor do I consider you an enemy. I do hope you do likewise for me.


wa:do

 

[beenie]

The strip clubs and bars concerns are that once Park51 moves in, the imam will use law to shut them down as was done here: West Broadway Bars Facing License Ban

those damn intolerant Muslims...from that article...how DARE they remain NEUTRAL and non-judgmental.

In the meantime, officials at the mosque said they have no objection to the nearby bars and have never had problems with them. A spokesman named Ali said the mosque would remain neutral in the dispute.

"We don't dictate other people's behavior," he said. "We believe in non-judging and tolerance."

 

[painted wolf]

The strip clubs and bars concerns are that once Park51 moves in, the imam will use law to shut them down as was done here

Really... last I heard they were ok with the community center and didn't have any fears of it.
Local strippers okay with Ground Zero mosque

wa:so

 

[Rakhel]

Tell me something? Are you here in NYC? Do you talk to these people are are you just relying on the media for your answers?

 

[painted wolf]

Tell me something? Are you here in NYC? Do you talk to these people are are you just relying on the media for your answers?

No, but I have friends and family in and around the area and I'm hoping to move there to get my PhD eventually. I visit when I can afford to.

Why, should I take your media more seriously than all other media?

wa:do

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The strip clubs and bars concerns are that once Park51 moves in, the imam will use law to shut them down as was done here: West Broadway Bars Facing License Ban

The strip clubs and bars have never been, and likely will not be of a concern. People love saying how Ground Zero is a sacred burial ground, but the fail to realize that morally objectionable businesses have already been running in the same area. Which shows that most of the people who are opposing the community center don't give a damn about morality. They only hate Islam.

 

[Rakhel]

Take what you want, believe what you want. Say the same of me.

I am looking at this from both sides. The Cordoba initiative has the right to build(if they can get their **** together), Muslims have the right to worship where they want(even if it is the Ferry terminal at Whitehall, which they have).

Those that oppose Park51, have the right to oppose it for what ever reason they choose. Whether it is because they feel it's too soon, or they feel their business will suffer, or even if it is racism that is fueling them. they have that right.

You cannot yell "1st Amendment" in support of Park51 and not allow the same rights to those that oppose it.

 

[Kathryn]

You are the one that said I was playing "the victim card".... If you want to be the "victim" now that's ok with me.

I was wondering what point you had in posting the random junk. Like the "camel milkers" insult.

Otherwise hooray for you. (sorry if I misunderstood your position)
I never demonize my enemy btw. Nor do I consider you an enemy. I do hope you do likewise for me.


wa:do

Well, to be fair, I didn't say you were playing the victim card - I ASKED if you were playing the victim card. I think. )(

Anyway, my point with the "random junk" was that I don't believe that Mighty Whitey is solely responsible for the chaos and violence that is part of so many predominately Muslim countries. Apparently they've been fully capable of creating their own violence and chaos without Western help for well over 1000 years.

Not to say they're any worse than Western countries when it comes to history - that's not the case as far as I can tell. But it's not accurate to say that they were peaceful, artsy, lovely people until Western civilization jacked with them in the 20th century. They've pretty much gotten themselves into one situation after another - like most people and most countries.

Heck, today in the 21st century, a peaceful Muslim citizen has more of a chance of being killed by a fellow Muslim than they do by anyone else.

Oh, by the way, no problem about the misunderstanding of my position. These are inflammatory things we're discussing. It's easy to read too much or too little into others' opinions. I am guilty of the same thing at times.

Peace!

 

[Smoke]

The strip clubs and bars have never been, and likely will not be of a concern. People love saying how Ground Zero is a sacred burial ground, but the fail to realize that morally objectionable businesses have already been running in the same area. Which shows that most of the people who are opposing the community center don't give a damn about morality. They only hate Islam.

I object to the notion that strip clubs and bars are morally objectionable businesses. You may be thinking of the law offices and brokerage houses in the area.

You cannot yell "1st Amendment" in support of Park51 and not allow the same rights to those that oppose it.

Yeah, everybody's got a right to talk **** if they want to. But they don't just want to talk ****, they want to shut the Muslims down. You don't have a First Amendment right to take away somebody else's First Amendment rights.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You cannot yell "1st Amendment" in support of Park51 and not allow the same rights to those that oppose it.

It's like gay marriage. If it's ever allowed nationally, I will stand by the church that wants to deny wedding gay couples. It is there right in America. But I have not heard of one valid reason to oppose this community center. Any reasons given are very easily countered and debunked.

I object to the notion that strip clubs and bars are morally objectionable businesses. You may be thinking of the law offices and brokerage houses in the area.

I'm not a big fan of visiting strip clubs, but I see them as a good sign. It means that there are less sexual hang ups and society has advanced enough for them to exist. However, as for the holier than thou crowd who likes to pretend to speaking from moral grounds.....I don't know what to say of them.

 

[Rakhel]

I'm not a big fan of visiting strip clubs, but I see them as a good sign. It means that there are less sexual hang ups and society has advanced enough for them to exist.

I'm sorry, but it depends on the skill of the stripper on whether strip clubs are a good thing. There is more to being a stripper than just taking your clothes off.

I swear. I wish they would bring back burlesque.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm sorry, but it depends on the skill of the stripper on whether strip clubs are a good thing. There is more to being a stripper than just taking your clothes off.

Depends on the club. Some have bigger girls who really don't do much other than take their clothes off, some have talented girls who can really work a pole, and some are artistic and create the feeling of lust while leaving plenty to the imagination. But I do agree about the burlesques. They are very classy, and the girls usually can actually dance, and it's sexy and sexual at the same time, all while leaving the imagination plenty of room to create it's own fantasy.

 

[Meow Mix]

I'm sorry, but it depends on the skill of the stripper on whether strip clubs are a good thing. There is more to being a stripper than just taking your clothes off.

I swear. I wish they would bring back burlesque.

I agree wholeheartedly with what you've said here.

I worked at a club to pay for my undergraduate studies without having to take out excessive loans. I don't find anything "morally objectionable" about the idea itself, though it's certain there are a lot of morally objectionable people that attend. That being said, "correlation doesn't imply causation." Just because there are some scumbags that abuse an outlet for erotic art (which it can definitely be, and again I'm with you on bringing back burlesque!) doesn't mean the whole thing is dirty and debased.

 

[Magic Man]

Yes the Cordoba House has every right to be built, if they bought the building legally and if they can come up with the funds to build it. Yet, the survivors haven't healed from the attack. Every year, people file onto that site, just to hear the names of loved ones read. Just to hear the bell sound to mark the death of thousands.

They haven't healed and forcing them to do so is not right.

No one is trying to force them to heal. What they are trying to force them to do is realize that their grief doesn't excuse their bigotry.

 

[Rakhel]

No one is trying to force them to heal. What they are trying to force them to do is realize that their grief doesn't excuse their bigotry.

Find a new argument. Some of those that oppose the building are Muslim.