Mosque at Ground Zero

[painted wolf]

Well, to be fair, I didn't say you were playing the victim card - I ASKED if you were playing the victim card. I think. )(

I took the question as an implication.

Anyway, my point with the "random junk" was that I don't believe that Mighty Whitey is solely responsible for the chaos and violence that is part of so many predominately Muslim countries. Apparently they've been fully capable of creating their own violence and chaos without Western help for well over 1000 years.

Not to say they're any worse than Western countries when it comes to history - that's not the case as far as I can tell. But it's not accurate to say that they were peaceful, artsy, lovely people until Western civilization jacked with them in the 20th century. They've pretty much gotten themselves into one situation after another - like most people and most countries.

Exactly... But we have had a role to play, especially during the post WWII-Cold War era. I think it's important to remember we don't have lilly white hands and that our bad choices will return to us.

Heck, today in the 21st century, a peaceful Muslim citizen has more of a chance of being killed by a fellow Muslim than they do by anyone else.

And Christians by fellow Christians.... it's tragic.

Oh, by the way, no problem about the misunderstanding of my position. These are inflammatory things we're discussing. It's easy to read too much or too little into others' opinions. I am guilty of the same thing at times.

Peace!

And to you!

wa:do

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Bwahahahahah.... :biglaugh:

God I love the "you have a victim complex" card... :slap:

Seriously though... what the flip does anything you posted about history (regardless of your thinking it's accurate or not) have to do with letting someone build a house of worship anywhere? It's totally irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Why do you feel Muslims don't get that right, while others do?

wa:do

It is a lot harder to recognize bias when it works in someone's favor than when it works against them.

I honestly don't understand why we are quibbling over where the nearest mosque is but the here we go again.

Masjid Manhattan is 0.2 miles away from the WTC. It has been a mosque since 1970. It is on their webpage.
Masjid Manhattan

Careful, you're using facts here. The Right has a well-documented allergy to facts.

you tell them they are being bigoted and see how far you get.

So we're supposed to respect their egos? Screw 'em. If people use hate speech, bigotry, racism, sexism, or the like, they DESERVE to be talked down to. They DESERVE to be put in their place. They DESERVE to be silenced.

And if that offends them then they can go pray about it.

 

[dieingchild]

I won't read 63 pages of this, and I don't think any somwhat sane person would.
I say instead of arguing over building a muslim comunity center several blocks away from "ground zero" let's let them build one right there on the site. It seems to me the best thing we can do is just let people of any religion (muslim or not) worship the way they will.

 

[croak]

I won't read 63 pages of this, and I don't think any somwhat sane person would.

No worries, I am aware that I fall short of the sanity line.

I say instead of arguing over building a muslim comunity center several blocks away from "ground zero" let's let them build one right there on the site. It seems to me the best thing we can do is just let people of any religion (muslim or not) worship the way they will.

Now that seems more controversial. I'm under the impression they have building plans for "Ground Zero", and I don't think it includes a place of worship. It might.

Atrocities have been committed everywhere, and people have built over the remains of people and buildings many times over.

 

[beenie]

I won't read 63 pages of this, and I don't think any somwhat sane person would.
I say instead of arguing over building a muslim comunity center several blocks away from "ground zero" let's let them build one right there on the site. It seems to me the best thing we can do is just let people of any religion (muslim or not) worship the way they will.

I wouldn't support that. I don't know what should be built on Ground Zero, but I don't think it should be a religious anything.

 

[tumbleweed41]

I wouldn't support that. I don't know what should be built on Ground Zero, but I don't think it should be a religious anything.

Personally, I think they should build another trade center.

If there is a death in the family, you can either leave the the room as is as a memorial, or, after a time, utilize the room as it was intended.
Any psychologist will tell you there is a time to move on.
(Not to mention it is a big old middle finger to those who thought they could bring us down.)

 

[dieingchild]

Ok perhaps I should clarify, I don't really care what they build on the site of the trade centers. I don't live in New york so why should I ? I just think telling people who are just as American as any other American that they can't set up a religious resource center is just inviting more trouble. Just because a fringe group happens to be militant its still not all of them.

 

[FluentYank3825]

I recently read an article in Time magazine about how "Islamaphobic" some Americans are becoming, even some Christian evangelists who consider Islam "the arm of Satan". Personally, I myself agree that anyone of any faith who persecutes another's faith for actions performed by an extreme minority population of that faith needs some serious self-examinations. While it is sad that so many Americans died on 9/11, we must remember that militant Islamic terrorists do not represent the Islamic faith as a whole, and to say that all muslims are terrorists is outright prejudiced and disrespectful.

Personally, I say that these pastors and evangelists opposing Islam should concern themselves more about the growing trend of religious disaffiliation affecting their own congregations, which I would say to them is a much larger threat to their interests than Muslims building mosques.

 

[jonman122]

the problem isnt that all muslims ae bad, but this is going to rally those muslims that are anti-religious in to believing they outright won the war, a mosque in their honor is being built nearly right beside the site of their successful attack! what a victory!

 

[darkendless]

I see the problem being that as soon as muslims become extreme by some way they are no longer muslims, thus, Islam in general washes their hands of those that reflect poorly upon their religion rather than taking it on the chin and trying to do something about it. Sad really.

 

[croak]

the problem isnt that all muslims ae bad, but this is going to rally those muslims that are anti-religious in to believing they outright won the war, a mosque in their honor is being built nearly right beside the site of their successful attack! what a victory!

In their honour? I wouldn't be surprised if they thought the Muslims planning the centre were traitors, not real Muslims, etc. I don't think fundamentalists appreciate Sufis.

That, and considering that the mosque is pretty much a prayer room in a community centre, I don't foresee any victory parades.

And seriously, even if it was a mosque right on 'Ground Zero', why would that make them think "they outright won the war"? Wouldn't that consist of America turning into an Islamic state or something along those lines?

What a great victory for Americans, in that case; being intimidated by the mere idea of some fundamentalists jumping for joy into protesting this building.

-shakes head-

 

[Wicked Witch]

There is no "Mosque at Ground Zero". It is a community center with a floor dedicated to Muslim worship in it, and it's actually several blocks away from Ground Zero.

If it was a church or a synagogue in one floor of the building, nobody would give a damn.

 

[darkendless]

There is no "Mosque at Ground Zero". It is a community center with a floor dedicated to Muslim worship in it, and it's actually several blocks away from Ground Zero.

If it was a church or a synagogue in one floor of the building, nobody would give a damn.

In a time like this one can say "only in America" whilst rolling their eyes.

 

[Requia]

Any psychologist will tell you there is a time to move on.
(Not to mention it is a big old middle finger to those who thought they could bring us down.)

One of the proposals for a replacement WTC was designed to look exactly like that. I still think they should have built it.

 

[beenie]

the problem isnt that all muslims ae bad, but this is going to rally those muslims that are anti-religious in to believing they outright won the war, a mosque in their honor is being built nearly right beside the site of their successful attack! what a victory!

oh please. i'm not even going to touch this one.

 

[darkendless]

oh please. i'm not even going to touch this one.

I think you'd be suprised how many Yankees would actually buy that.

 

[beenie]

I think you'd be suprised how many Yankees would actually buy that.

nothing surprises me anymore.

 

[beenie]

I see the problem being that as soon as muslims become extreme by some way they are no longer muslims, thus, Islam in general washes their hands of those that reflect poorly upon their religion rather than taking it on the chin and trying to do something about it. Sad really.

you are correct, this is a huge problem. the Muslim community needs to recognize this problem and deal with it. in my area, efforts are being made (in the form of inter-faith dialogues, both at churches/synagogues and the mosques...as well as "neutral" community center locations. the problem is, we are preaching to the choir here, as the Muslims in my area (with the exception of a few) are not extremists anyway. those who are extremists...well, sadly they won't attend these gatherings anyway, as they have the self-labeled "holier-than-thou" complex.

 

[darkendless]

you are correct, this is a huge problem. the Muslim community needs to recognize this problem and deal with it. in my area, efforts are being made (in the form of inter-faith dialogues, both at churches/synagogues and the mosques...as well as "neutral" community center locations. the problem is, we are preaching to the choir here, as the Muslims in my area (with the exception of a few) are not extremists anyway. those who are extremists...well, sadly they won't attend these gatherings anyway, as they have the self-labeled "holier-than-thou" complex.

Exactly right, those who need to be spoken to are full of their own sense of self importance. I think a lot of Islamaphobia though does arise because the first thing to top leaders of Islam do when there is an attack is wash their hands of responsibility. It causes a lot of confusion about who is who in the muslim world.

 

[Smoke]

Personally, I think they should build another trade center.

I've been half expecting somebody to suggest a 900-foot statue of Ronald Reagan.