Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Thing is, this community center happens to be exactly what the surrounding community does need.
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Mosque at Ground Zero
- Thread starter 6Michael6Bennett6
- Start date
Mercy Not Sacrifice
Well-Known Member
Oooh! Oooh! I know this one! Since the "religious" right bought out the Republican Party! That is my final answer!
Mercy Not Sacrifice
Well-Known Member
He has done a lot of good, I believe. He's not perfect, though. But on this one, he absolutely got it right.
No one is perfect.
Mercy Not Sacrifice
Well-Known Member
^ 
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
:biglaugh:
wa:do
wa:do
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Turns out Republicans passed the special law that makes it impossible to prevent this project from being built.
For more irony, press here.
For more irony, press here.
logician
Well-Known Member
Keith Olbermann covered all the bases on this one.
1. It is nonsense equating the work of terrorists with normal practices of a religion - i.e. saying that people of the Islamic religion somehow SHARE in the blame for 9/11. Many were first responders in 9/11, and a number of people of the faith were killed in 9/11.
2. The so-called mosque is just a normal nondescript building at least 4 BLOCKS from ground zero. YOu can't see it from there, and most people couldn't even find it.
3. It's really being used by the repubs and RW to fan more hatred of Islamic people, pushing religious intolerance and bigotry being their strong point.
4. The repubs are trying to make a political issue for the campaign.
1. It is nonsense equating the work of terrorists with normal practices of a religion - i.e. saying that people of the Islamic religion somehow SHARE in the blame for 9/11. Many were first responders in 9/11, and a number of people of the faith were killed in 9/11.
2. The so-called mosque is just a normal nondescript building at least 4 BLOCKS from ground zero. YOu can't see it from there, and most people couldn't even find it.
3. It's really being used by the repubs and RW to fan more hatred of Islamic people, pushing religious intolerance and bigotry being their strong point.
4. The repubs are trying to make a political issue for the campaign.
M
Majikthise
Guest
1. There is no separation of church and state in islamic countries. You ,being an atheist , would find yourself ostracized in short order over there. It happens within christian communities in many parts of THIS country.
2. How about a billboard with a picture of muhammed on it put up ANYWHERE. Not gonna happen, so much for the first amendment.
3.and 4. Why is it that atheists always have to beat the dead horse of the right wing conspiracy when the left has shown itself more than capable of the same predjudices and double standards.
Free thinker means we think.
By the way, I wouldn't trust Olberman's opinion on how to clip your toenails.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
The proposed mosque is two blocks from Ground Zero. I've seen several maps of the area with the site clearly marked.
Democrats are once again throwing the race/creed card and attempting to demonize those who disagree with their stance. Nothing new there.
67% of those polled believe that it is LEGAL for the mosque to be built there. However, nearly the same number believe it is in POOR TASTE for the mosque to be built there.
If the imam and his supporters/funders are truly so concerned about bettering relations within their community, they would not be so adamant about that particular site.
I'm saying they should not be LEGALLY barred from building there. But I also am saying it's poor judgment - at best. Very insensitive.
It's about like Japanese Americans wanting to erect a Shinto temple on the shores of Pearl Harbor ten years after the war. Not cool. That doesn't mean people hate Japanese Americans. It would simply not have been seen as a conciliatory or even neutral statement.
Like I've said before, everything that's legal certainly isn't in good taste or common sense. If that was the case, I could buy whiskey on Sunday around here.
Democrats are once again throwing the race/creed card and attempting to demonize those who disagree with their stance. Nothing new there.
67% of those polled believe that it is LEGAL for the mosque to be built there. However, nearly the same number believe it is in POOR TASTE for the mosque to be built there.
If the imam and his supporters/funders are truly so concerned about bettering relations within their community, they would not be so adamant about that particular site.
I'm saying they should not be LEGALLY barred from building there. But I also am saying it's poor judgment - at best. Very insensitive.
It's about like Japanese Americans wanting to erect a Shinto temple on the shores of Pearl Harbor ten years after the war. Not cool. That doesn't mean people hate Japanese Americans. It would simply not have been seen as a conciliatory or even neutral statement.
Like I've said before, everything that's legal certainly isn't in good taste or common sense. If that was the case, I could buy whiskey on Sunday around here.
i'm conflicted on this issue as well for all the reasons Kathryn stated.
for most issues, i'd say that Muslims should stand their ground (if they want to build a mosque in my neighborhood and people were opposing, for instance)...i'd be the first one out there defending the Freedom of Religion Amendment and making damn sure no one was being victimized.
however, in this case, although the proposed center is blocks away from Ground Zero...why do something just because you "legally can"? i understand they may be trying to better interfaith relations, community relations, etc., but at what expense? i hate to ever side with staunch Republicans who are lying through their teeth to sensationalize and propagandize the issue, but i also can't fully stand behind something that has the public at large opposing it.
quite frankly, if i worked in lower Manhattan, i'm not so sure i'd feel completely comfortable or safe entering the center. people who lost family members on 9/11 (albeit not from any of the proposed owners/members of this center) are very passionate, and i can't stand the sight of angry people...even if misplaced on me. i don't generally give in to the bully-style tactics, but i have to admit this is clearly a different issue. i'm just not sure how i feel about this...
therefore, in my opinion, the center has the right to be there legally, but i question the right in terms of sensitivity and the true essence of moving forward in the community. i have a feeling the powers-that-be are going to push ahead with this plan anyway, but i'm not sure how i feel about it.
i would hope, however, that should Muslims decide to scratch this plan and move the center elsewhere, there would be no opposition to that location should it be zoned properly, etc.
it's a tough one, that's for sure.
edit: i'll add that should the Muslim community decide not to build here, it should be their decision alone, not some crap drummed up by Rush Limbaugh and his lemmings.
for most issues, i'd say that Muslims should stand their ground (if they want to build a mosque in my neighborhood and people were opposing, for instance)...i'd be the first one out there defending the Freedom of Religion Amendment and making damn sure no one was being victimized.
however, in this case, although the proposed center is blocks away from Ground Zero...why do something just because you "legally can"? i understand they may be trying to better interfaith relations, community relations, etc., but at what expense? i hate to ever side with staunch Republicans who are lying through their teeth to sensationalize and propagandize the issue, but i also can't fully stand behind something that has the public at large opposing it.
quite frankly, if i worked in lower Manhattan, i'm not so sure i'd feel completely comfortable or safe entering the center. people who lost family members on 9/11 (albeit not from any of the proposed owners/members of this center) are very passionate, and i can't stand the sight of angry people...even if misplaced on me. i don't generally give in to the bully-style tactics, but i have to admit this is clearly a different issue. i'm just not sure how i feel about this...
therefore, in my opinion, the center has the right to be there legally, but i question the right in terms of sensitivity and the true essence of moving forward in the community. i have a feeling the powers-that-be are going to push ahead with this plan anyway, but i'm not sure how i feel about it.
i would hope, however, that should Muslims decide to scratch this plan and move the center elsewhere, there would be no opposition to that location should it be zoned properly, etc.
it's a tough one, that's for sure.
edit: i'll add that should the Muslim community decide not to build here, it should be their decision alone, not some crap drummed up by Rush Limbaugh and his lemmings.
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I know you stated countless times your support of their right to build the center/mosque, i'm merely trying to understand how do you see this as insensitive. The example of japan would have been similar if it were a couple of japanese that pulled off something bad and so on. But that was a war. Unlike in 9/11 case where a few muslims did it. I can't see how would anybody justifiably have ill-feelings towards this based on its insensitivity. Especially when one puts in mind the part that you stated here countless times too, that this thing is 2 blocks away, and not even visible from ground zero.
IMO the Mosque should go ahead although my heart goes out to the victims families of 9/11,i don't think moving the goalposts of the constitution would be a good thing.
This is absurd. I don't understand. The attack was done by some Muslims, not by all Muslims. This is like saying Germans can't have a language center at certain places because of what Hitler did. Heck, that was even worse because the war was against the entire country "Germany".
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Only "some Japanese" bombed Pearl Harbor.
The images of jubilant middle eastern Muslims dancing in the streets celebrating 9/11 are forever etched in the minds of many people. We know it was only "some Muslims" that flew those planes into those buildings - but we also know that thousands and thousands of Muslims worldwide celebrated that event as an Islamic victory. This is what I call an "unfortuate truth."
I don't recall ANY American Muslims doing so (though I'm sure there were some radicals - Muslim AND non Muslim - who thought the US deserved exactly what happened that day). I do recall scattered instances of American Muslims being harrassed shortly after 9/11. This is also an "unfortunate truth."
The bottom line is that emotions run very high, and are still very raw, regarding the events of that terrible day. To me, this imam is pouring salt in wounds. He knows that many New Yorkers, who were very personally impacted that day, and whose loved ones will never even be FOUND, oppose the PROXIMITY of this mosque. For whatever reasons, he has decided to be incredibly insensitive to their feelings. This is also an "unfortunate truth."
This brings his motives into speculation and suspicion. HE has instigated this level of suspicion by his level of insensitivity.
Most New Yorkers don't oppose the mosque's location just because it's a Muslim mosque (there are at least 100 mosques in NYC and to my knowledge, their members worship freely and peacefully in those mosques). Most people simply don't want it in the same vicinity that their loved one's ashes floated to the ground.
The images of jubilant middle eastern Muslims dancing in the streets celebrating 9/11 are forever etched in the minds of many people. We know it was only "some Muslims" that flew those planes into those buildings - but we also know that thousands and thousands of Muslims worldwide celebrated that event as an Islamic victory. This is what I call an "unfortuate truth."
I don't recall ANY American Muslims doing so (though I'm sure there were some radicals - Muslim AND non Muslim - who thought the US deserved exactly what happened that day). I do recall scattered instances of American Muslims being harrassed shortly after 9/11. This is also an "unfortunate truth."
The bottom line is that emotions run very high, and are still very raw, regarding the events of that terrible day. To me, this imam is pouring salt in wounds. He knows that many New Yorkers, who were very personally impacted that day, and whose loved ones will never even be FOUND, oppose the PROXIMITY of this mosque. For whatever reasons, he has decided to be incredibly insensitive to their feelings. This is also an "unfortunate truth."
This brings his motives into speculation and suspicion. HE has instigated this level of suspicion by his level of insensitivity.
Most New Yorkers don't oppose the mosque's location just because it's a Muslim mosque (there are at least 100 mosques in NYC and to my knowledge, their members worship freely and peacefully in those mosques). Most people simply don't want it in the same vicinity that their loved one's ashes floated to the ground.
HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
Coming in new to this so I may have missed this point being made already;
Have the people who consider it insensitive to have an Islamic Centre/Mosque built near Ground Zero considered the similar insensitivity of opposing it? Don't you think peaceful American Muslims might feel just as upset at being implicitly linked with the murderous terrorists and being effectively told they have no place in a whole section of the city as (some of) the 9/11 victims and families feel at the idea of the Mosque being built near by?
Have the people who consider it insensitive to have an Islamic Centre/Mosque built near Ground Zero considered the similar insensitivity of opposing it? Don't you think peaceful American Muslims might feel just as upset at being implicitly linked with the murderous terrorists and being effectively told they have no place in a whole section of the city as (some of) the 9/11 victims and families feel at the idea of the Mosque being built near by?