Most American Christians Believe They're Victims of Discrimination

[Demonslayer]

It is a nation of Christians, but it is not a Christian nation.

Very well said. I often used the example, if you went to a car wash and 70% of the people working there were Christian, would you call it a "Christian Car Wash?" Of course not.

If Christians feel persecuted and discriminated against, it's because they cannot have their way in making US law. If anything, they have had their way for far too long.

This is the biggest part for sure. And the "War on Christmas" which really means for a long time Christians could plaster every available surface with their religious bric-a-brac while being blissfully free of having to put up with the bric-a-brac from other religions.

And the greetings of course. Say "Happy Holidays" and the War on Christmas crowd gets mad, as if it's a personal insult and not just an attempt to include the other religions like Judaism that have holidays during the same time period. "I'm Christian, you should say Merry Christmas to me" is what I hear a lot...yet I've never heard anyone who says that kind of thing say Happy Hanukkah when they see a Jew at that time of year. Instead they say Merry Christmas to everyone, even the Jews, and completely miss the point.

 

[Revoltingest]

But "University Studies" sounds more prestigious... I guess... I dunno.

It sounds absurdly pretentious.

 

[Skwim]

The complaints are not really coming from US Christians but from US Evangelical Protestants. If you look at the rash of "gay wedding supply" cases, I don't see any refusals from Catholic shopkeepers. In the UK we've only had two cases. I can't find any on the continent.

Those same fundamentalists who scream "discrimination" have always been happy to practice it, in the past against Catholics, today against Pagans.

Fundies are ready (love) to discriminate against outsiders. It seems to be inherent in their theology. Personally, I think xenophobia has a lot to do with it.


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[9-10ths_Penguin]

The complaints are not really coming from US Christians but from US Evangelical Protestants. If you look at the rash of "gay wedding supply" cases, I don't see any refusals from Catholic shopkeepers. In the UK we've only had two cases. I can't find any on the continent.

Those same fundamentalists who scream "discrimination" have always been happy to practice it, in the past against Catholics, today against Pagans.

Where the Catholic Church tends to object (though not so much individual Catholics, IMO) is with medical and institutional issues. Church representatives tend to get bent out of shape at the idea that Catholic hospitals should have to maintain reasonable standards for end-of-life care and reproductive health.

I've also heard Canadian bishops complain that requiring all government-run schools - including our taxpayer-funded Catholic schools - to allow gay-straight alliances on request of students somehow infringes on the rights of the Catholic Church.

 

[Nous]

I guess journalists feel the need to say something sensational. If anyone read the report on the survey (which few Americans will), one would discover that the headline of The Atlantic article doesn't accurately characterize the survey questions or findings. The following reports the findings relevant to the headline:

White Christian groups hold significantly different opinions than all other religious groups about reverse discrimination. More than six in ten white evangelical Protestants (68%), white mainline Protestants (63%), and white Catholics (62%) say discrimination against whites is now as critical as discrimination against non-whites. In contrast, more than six in ten religiously unaffiliated Americans (67%), black Protestants (66%), and Hispanic Catholics (61%) say discrimination against whites is not as big a problem as discrimination against blacks and other minorities in the U.S.

Perceptions of Discrimination Against Christians

Nearly half (49%) of Americans also say discrimination against Christians has become as big a problem in America today as discrimination against other groups, while half (50%) of Americans disagree. Although there are no significant differences in opinion by race or ethnicity, among white Americans, anxiety about discrimination against Christians varies substantially by social class. More than six in ten (62%) white working-class Americans believe discrimination against Christians is now as big a problem as discrimination against other groups. Only 38% of white college-educated Americans agree, while 62% disagree.

[. . .]

Christians are considerably more likely than non-Christians to perceive significant discrimination against Christians in the U.S., yet there is still significant diversity of opinion among denominations. Nearly eight in ten (77%) white evangelical Protestants say that discrimination against Christians now rivals that of other groups. Substantially fewer white mainline Protestants (54%), white Catholics (53%), black Protestants (53%), and Hispanic Catholics (50% agree that discrimination against Christians is now as big a problem as discrimination against other groups in the America. About eight in ten religiously unaffiliated Americans (78%) and adherents of non-Christian religions (77%) disagree.​

http://www.prri.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/PRRI-Brookings-2016-Immigration-survey-report.pdf

So, of the 62% of "white working-class Americans" who "believe discrimination against Christians is now as big a problem as discrimination against other groups," how "big a problem" do they believe discrimination against other groups is? Probably not very big. Therefore, their belief of discrimination against Christians is apparently not perceived as any larger problem than that.

Anyway, I thought the more interesting findings were those showing the general disapproval of Trump's proposal on building a wall at the border with Mexico and his discriminatory immigration proposal.

 

[Nous]

It does happen though.
In the 70s, I was turned away from a reactor operator job (Phoenix Memorial Reactor)
here at my university because they were under orders to hire only blacks & women.

Quota systems were struck down with Bakke in 1978. And to the best of my knowledge, Nixon's "Philadelphia Plan" did not apply to federal contractors beyond Philadelphia until the 70s. I feel certain there were few while males who suffered due to racial or gender quotas during that brief window. It isn't as though while males in the 70s were lacking employment opportunities outside of the federal government.

 

[Revoltingest]

Quota systems were struck down with Bakke in 1978. And to the best of my knowledge, Nixon's "Philadelphia Plan" did not apply to federal contractors beyond Philadelphia until the 70s. I feel certain there were few while males who suffered due to racial or gender quotas during that brief window. It isn't as though while males in the 70s were lacking employment opportunities outside of the federal government.

Whether the group is lacking or not, I'm not a fan of race or gender based discrimination.
And it still goes on, but with a more nebulous approach than rigid quotas.

 

[Acim]

Can you give some examples? All the cases I can think of are ones where many different religions, Christianity included, are welcome at the table.

I get the impression that you may be thinking of, say, acknowledging Ramadan or Diwali while not recognizing the Christian holidays that our society not only recognizes but is built to accommodate.

I can provide examples, but none that are recent. So, would rely on google search. Like one I came across on such a search was about cross (from wreckage) at ground zero of WTC after 9/11 attacks. Atheist group sought to have it removed as it was promoting religious symbolism. I think atheist group lost the case, but is example. I'm talking more about symbolism than holiday or ritual type stuff.

I thought I did: personal prayer isn't the issue; state-sanctioned prayer is.

I remember being made to recite the Lord's Prayer in school; not okay. A Christian choosing to recite the Lord's Prayer on their own in school: okay.

I see us agreeing on this, such that any case that I might cite where school admin disallowed student prayer on their own/in group during school would be agreed that they were mistaken about (constitutional) law. It comes up in my awareness about once or twice a year. If it comes up again (as news story), I'll try to remember this thread and bump it.

It isn't spite; it's a desire for fairness and accountability in government. It's also making governments uphold the law.

Spite is how it appears to the people perceiving discrimination is occurring. Like how some of us don't want illegal immigration occurring and may be very assertive in resisting that due to our desire to make government uphold the law. Others perceive it as anti-some particular group and see all actions as spiteful toward that particular group. Regardless of how much it is explained to be about the law, the person feeling discriminated against, or those sympathizing with their perspective don't hear that part of the argument.

 

[Nous]

Whether the group is lacking or not, I'm not a fan of race or gender based discrimination.
And it still goes on, but with a more nebulous approach than rigid quotas.

I'm not a fan of such discrimination either. In the matter of employment, no discrimination in favor of particular minority races/ethnicities has passed strict scrutiny, as the Court required for such programs.

 

[Spideymon77]

The movie "God's Not Dead" and "God's Not Dead 2" really nailed that into the coffin.

I live in a place where mostly everyone is Catholic or Christian. Lucky for me, everyone I know that's religious accepts me for who I am!

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

People from the majority/dominant group always promote a narrative that they're the persecuted ones when they want to deflect attention from their discriminatory behavior.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

"But especially to those who believed that America was once a Christian nation"

America was never a Christian nation, it was not founded to be a Christian nation, and unless the First Amendment of the US Constitution is changed, America never will be a Christian nation. It is a nation of Christians, but it is not a Christian nation. If Christians feel persecuted and discriminated against, it's because they cannot have their way in making US law. If anything, they have had their way for far too long. There are Christian groups still protesting legalized same sex marriage in the US... as if it affects them. When NJ was debating legalizing same sex marriage back in 2006-2007, Gov. Christie, a "devout Catholic", refused to sign the bill citing his religious beliefs. It took a lawsuit in which the state supreme court ruled that not legalizing same sex marriage violated the state constitution. So for a while at least, he imposed his Christianity on a secular state. It doesn't sound like he was the one being discriminated against.

I don't disagree with what you have said, but I feel it is out of place; because in the context of the survey, those who believe that U.S. was once a "Christian nation" were more inclined to feel discriminated against. The truth of the matter is of little importance compared to the belief held by those surveyed.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

I've noticed odd experience requirements too, but I don't see a pattern.
I once worked at a company which required 10 years experience there to become "senior engineer".
The same company had ads looking for "senior engineers" with 5 years engineering experience.

It is common HR practice to post greater qualifications than what you would actually "settle" for; so as a former Business Admin student, these kinds of things no longer surprise me.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Sometimes I wonder whether some Christians do not enjoy being persecuted, deep inside. Because of some twisted logic, that might make them feel to be right. Like their martyrs. I might be a bit superficial, tho.

As a former Christian, I would tell you that yes; delusions of victimization feed their dogma. As a store owner, I would be inclined to set dress code policies that would include banning of all visible religiously-oriented jewelry when working directly with the public. Certain Christian would view this as discrimination against them (in spite of the fact that this pertains to pinnacles, Thor's hammers, Yin-Yang, and other religious accoutrements) and would be confirmation bias to them that the dogma of "the devil is under every bush, rules the world and is out to get you" is correct.

 

[Orbit]

Most American Christians Believe They're Victims of Discrimination

Interesting article. Please discuss.

If they mean we sue them when they try to legislate other Americans to follow their religion and its laws, then yes.

 

[Godobeyer]

Most American Christians Believe They're Victims of Discrimination

Interesting article. Please discuss.

I can't believe my eyes

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When a religion has political power and influence, and it uses this to shape government and society, criticisms of injustice and systemic problems end up reflecting on the religion.

Any religion that imposes itself on people who don't want it should be prepared to hear what those people think of it... even if it comes in the form of "scorn and ire".

Yeah. I don't care much for being told I can't do something just because it's some religious belief. The most irritating of which is when I forget it's Sunday, plan out a nice dinner, go to buy a needed alcohol to cook my dinner, forget it's Sunday, and be told "sorry" when I get to the register.
And then there is all the discrimination that people should be a religious right. That one isn't irritating, it's potentially frightening.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It does happen though.
In the 70s, I was turned away from a reactor operator job (Phoenix Memorial Reactor)
here at my university because they were under orders to hire only blacks & women.
(Other examples abound.) I did have an interesting discussion with its director, who
wasn't comfortable with the situation.

Such was common back in the day.
My father, an engineering manager at Ford, was also prohibited from hiring white males for a spell.
When I went to work for Northrop, I was the only white male in the group of newly graduated new hires.

But regarding religious discrimination, I never experienced any, nor did I ever see
it for anyone else. Of course, it could've happened without my knowing about it.
Btw, I've hired plenty'o Xians, deists, heathens, Jews, & unidentified.

I have a friend who got a Masters degree specifically planning to teach at university level.
Towards the end the MA students were invited to sit in on the process of hiring staff and profs.
He quickly realized that as a white male he had zero chance of getting such a position. Affirmative Action was the order of the day. Much less qualified applicants would get the jobs for the foreseeable future if they were black or female.
Tom

Actual evidence for these claims, please. I see right-wingers saying this stuff a fair bit, but it just sounds like a racist conspiracy theory much like the mythical "welfare queens".

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Sometimes I wonder whether some Christians do not enjoy being persecuted, deep inside. Because of some twisted logic, that might make them feel to be right. Like their martyrs. I might be a bit superficial, tho.

Ciao

- viole

There is a strong current of that in Christian history. Matthew 5:11, for example. There's stories of early Christians actually wanting to be killed by Roman authorities, who thought they were insane. They would say things like "if you want to die so badly, there's a cliff - throw yourself off of it".

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/08/the-evangelical-persecution-complex/375506/

 

[Revoltingest]

Actual evidence for these claims, please.

Evidence for personal experience?
Pbbbbttttttt!
It's how the working world was back in the day.
I was there.
You weren't even born yet.

I see right-wingers saying this stuff a fair bit, but it just sounds like a racist conspiracy theory much like the mythical "welfare queens".

Yeah, I understand......you don't like it, it must not be true.
So naturally, it's "racist".
Btw, you forgot to add "sexist".