Most American Christians Believe They're Victims of Discrimination

[Saint Frankenstein]

Evidence for personal experience?
Pbbbbttttttt!
It's how the working world was back in the day.
I was there.
You weren't even born yet.

Yeah, I understand......you don't like it, it must not be true.
So naturally, it's "racist".

So you have no actual evidence for your claims of policies to only hire non-whites and women, just rumors of hush-hush behind closed doors conversations. Thought so. Because obviously a non-white person or a woman could never be more qualified than a white man, right? Damn them dumb non-whites and women stealing the white man's jobs!

 

[Revoltingest]

So you have no actual evidence for your claims of policies to only hire non-whites and women....

As I told you earlier, I was there, & I experienced it first hand.
I never documented so that I could you give you a link 4 decades later.

.....just rumors of hush-hush behind closed doors conversations.

Rumors?
I was there.
It happened.

Thought so. Because obviously a non-white person or a woman could never be more qualified than a white man, right?

Pay attention....I didn't say that, nor can that be deduced from my posts.
But less qualified individuals were hired in order to fill quotas because demand exceeded supply.

Damn them dumb non-whites and women stealing the white man's jobs!

Someone's touchy today.
The less qualified shouldn't feel entitled to a job just because they're 'disadvantaged'.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

As I told you earlier, I was there, & I experienced it first hand.
I never documented so that I could you give you a link 4 decades later.

Rumors?
I was there.
It happened.

Pay attention....I didn't say that, nor can that be deduced from my posts.
But less qualified individuals were hired in order to fill quotas because demand exceeded supply.

Someone's touchy today.
The less qualified shouldn't feel entitled to a job just because they're 'disadvantaged'.

I already gathered that it was just hearsay. I'm not even necessarily denying that those conversations took place. But there's other possibilities, such as supervisors not understanding their own hiring practices or whatever.

 

[Revoltingest]

I already gathered that it was just hearsay.

"Hearsay"

I'm not even necessarily denying that those conversations took place. But there's other possibilities, such as supervisors not understanding their own hiring practices or whatever.

No, just wishful thinking on your part.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

"Hearsay"

It's hearsay to me because I don't have any way to verify it.

No, just wishful thinking on your part.

No way to know either way.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's hearsay to me because I don't have any way to verify it.

Don't believe me then, if you don't want to.
But those of limited work experience ought to be cautious in challenging
without basis the perspective of those long & fully engaged in the economy.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Don't believe me then, if you don't want to.
But those of limited work experience ought to be cautious in challenging
without basis the perspective of those long & fully engaged in the economy.

I asked for evidence that it is or has been a policy of companies to not hire more-qualified white men over less-qualified non-whites and women in the interest of racial or gender quotas and I haven't seen any evidence presented.

And good for you for having a job, but I have health problems that keep me from working or even being able to normally function.

 

[Revoltingest]

I asked for evidence that it is or has been a policy of companies to not hire more-qualified white men over less-qualified non-whites and women in the interest of racial or gender quotas and I haven't seen any evidence presented.

And I'm relating personal experience.
I've no links to offer in evidence.

And good for you for having a job, but I have health problems that keep me from working or even being able to normally function.

For whatever reason, you simply weren't where I was, doing what I was, when I was.
When you relate your personal experiences, I notice you don't provide evidence either.
I don't challenge it.
That would be ridiculous.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Actual evidence for these claims, please. I see right-wingers saying this stuff a fair bit, but it just sounds like a racist conspiracy theory much like the mythical "welfare queens".

Very true. I keep hearing stories of people who have seen it, but I've not found any hard actual evidence of it being a problem.

 

[Revoltingest]

Very true. I keep hearing stories of people who have seen it, but I've not found any hard actual evidence of it being a problem.

Seen it?
I experienced it first hand.
I'm surprised that this history is so unknown to "left wingers".
To deny the experience of others is a double edged sword.
How do you feel when people say the trans-gender phenomenon is phony & driven by whim or fashion?
Do you have proof that you experienced what you say?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I experienced it first hand.

I don't doubt first hand experience, but at the same time, I've not seen any proof this is a widespread problem or phenomena, and some people I have met who claim I do doubt it. And sometimes I wonder if that just an excuse given by employers as to why they didn't hire someone, to totally displace any fault or blame off themselves.

Do you have proof that you experienced what you say?

Yes, actually. But because it's within my brain you can't have it till I'm dead (or maybe imaging has improved enough it doesn't have to be postmortem?).

 

[Ingledsva]

I have a friend who got a Masters degree specifically planning to teach at university level.
Towards the end the MA students were invited to sit in on the process of hiring staff and profs.
He quickly realized that as a white male he had zero chance of getting such a position. Affirmative Action was the order of the day. Much less qualified applicants would get the jobs for the foreseeable future if they were black or female.
Tom

But that assumes they are less qualified.

Affirmative action came into being because companies wouldn't hire blacks or women - regardless of their qualifications.

If a white male, a black male, and a woman of any color, had the same education and background - they would hire the white male!

Interestingly, studies also found that teachers also gave white males higher scores for the exact same paper.

We live in an age where there is still mass discrimination against blacks and women. Briton just in the last couple of years finally changed their law to allow a firstborn female child to be crowned.

*

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Saint Frankenstein, it is right there in black and white. Its called "Affirmative Action". This forces employers to take note of skin color rather than be colorblind and gauge solely and qualifications and experience.

 

[Demonslayer]

I asked for evidence that it is or has been a policy of companies to not hire more-qualified white men over less-qualified non-whites and women in the interest of racial or gender quotas and I haven't seen any evidence presented.

I might not be quite as ancient as the vererable Revoltingest, but I remember racial quotas. Specifically I remember my father...already a fairly racist man (well, to be fair he sort of hated everything) coming home ranting about the n___rs taking everyone's jobs. He had been turned down three times for a promotion in a two year period, two black guys and a woman receiving the promotions ahead of him. (He eventually got the promotion, but was still angry for some reason)

Could he prove they weren't more qualified? Of course not, that was kind of the point it was hard to prove these things but in cases where it was anywhere near close, hiring managers often chose the minority to keep their quota.

In 1978 there was a case U of California v. Allan Bakke that struck down quotas...evidence that quotas were commonly being used and needed to be addressed in the courts.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/affirmativetimeline1.html

 

[Demonslayer]

nt Frankenstein, it is right there in black and white.

No pun intended?

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't doubt first hand experience, but at the same time, I've not seen any proof this is a widespread problem or phenomena, and some people I have met who claim I do doubt it. And sometimes I wonder if that just an excuse given by employers as to why they didn't hire someone, to totally displace any fault or blame off themselves.

No, the days of affirmative action & quotas actually existed.
Geeze Louise.....this reminds me of moon landing denial.

Yes, actually. But because it's within my brain you can't have it till I'm dead (or maybe imaging has improved enough it doesn't have to be postmortem?).

Oh, come on!
Just slice a little off for us to examine now.
You won't miss it.
@Wirey did, & he.....uh....never mind.
They opened him up, & only found....

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

No pun intended?

LoL ... No.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No, the days of affirmative action & quotas actually existed.
Geeze Louise.....this reminds me of moon landing denial.

"The days of" part is what I'm referring to. As I said, I've not seen proof or evidence that it is a problem. Today, I've read of a few cases that have ruled against it. I don't doubt "the days" of the dinosaurs being forced to 'Nam just because it's us pre-dinosaurs who haven't had a problem with the draft.

 

[viole]

There is a strong current of that in Christian history. Matthew 5:11, for example. There's stories of early Christians actually wanting to be killed by Roman authorities, who thought they were insane. They were say things like "if you want to die so badly, there's a cliff - throw yourself off of it".

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/08/the-evangelical-persecution-complex/375506/

I can understand the confusion of the Romans. They could not appreciate the difference between suicide and wanting to be killed. Silly Romans , no sense of humor.... Maybe that could be an inspiration for "the life of Brian, part 2: Brian strikes back".

Ciao

- viole

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is a strong current of that in Christian history. Matthew 5:11, for example. There's stories of early Christians actually wanting to be killed by Roman authorities, who thought they were insane. They were say things like "if you want to die so badly, there's a cliff - throw yourself off of it".

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/08/the-evangelical-persecution-complex/375506/

I made it around to reading that article, and it is spot on. And the worst part is, no one bothers to do any fact checking. There are many people around who believe praying in public school is illegal, especially among the deeper Conservative groups (Baptists especially). They say it's risky to wear a cross to school, condemn the ACLU for taking Mangers out of Courthouse lawns, but completely ignore the cases where the ACLU has fought for the rights of Christians. The group that article is describing creates a very nightmarish view upon the world, one filled with dangers, risks, and being a victim. You will be a victim for loving Christ, and the world is out to get you because the Devil is everywhere and in everything. It is very much a cult of fear, and it has the very real potential to be psychologically destructive and tormenting, and it often comes with risks to others.
Unfortunately they will need to face some persecution, because we need to acknowledge that such views of fear, paranoia, and hatred just do not belong in our society.