Most here attack or defend. Are there any that just seek God.

[Greatest I am]

If you "seek" God, I'd have to say you probably already missed it.

I no longer seek. I have filled that need.

Because you do not understand you attack and mock. You wear the doubt in your God badly.

If all things are one, then they must be healthy and ordered. One does not perceive the oneness of things in chaos. The ordered oneness you see is perfect otherwise you could not see it. This is gnosis.

Continue to seek God because a God that never reveals himself to you beyond doubt is imagination.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

when did i ever say that I give my philosophy to Selene? I don't, I have my philosophy and she has hers. yes her guidance influences my philosophy but only if I want it to and that piece of philosophy makes sense to me. It's not forced



well you called me a "selenist" for one

One of the ineffable qualities of man is that we change labels continuously. A dog is always a dog. It can be a trained dog or a watch dog etc. but always a dog. Man defines himself or herself in a more complicated way because we are infinitely more complex and want and need to bring order to all things. This is why we assume and give labels. We abhor chaos. Atheist believe in nothing in terms of religion, Religionist are all in a large group consisting of all who believe in some kind of religion. Most here are one or the other. Those who follow Buddha like to be separated from Christians, Christians from RC although they stem from the same parent, Moonies from Confucius etc. If I had recognized your Selene or if you would have mentioned moon Goddess then I would have called you a naturalist and have know immediately that you were seeking the way through a natural God instead of hiding this fact we would not have had needed to go through all this ********.
Now we can perhaps gain something. Why were you ashamed to say that you prayed to the moon? Did you expect scorn or laughter? I offer neither. In fact if River wolf had not told me (your label), what you should have, I was ready to say that you had a pooka and I was going to drop you like a hot potato.
If you gain anything from our talk then you should thank her.
Now I can recognize that you use the moon as a focal point for inner though. Not a bad place to begin and much better than some imaginary pooka.
Your thoughts?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

It is a matter of how you perceive things to be. If that is all you see is the bad things in the world, then I am sorry for you. Many of those things are created by humans and are the result of imbalances we create ourselves. What I call "God" is the balancing factor in nature and existence. It is not concerned with suffering or well-being. It is just constant energy and change. Not everything can be "perfect" and rosy. To every rose bush there are at least a few thorns. It is just natural. Humans create "evil". As humans, we perceive suffering and well-being. To an animal or tree or other life form, whatever happens to it, be it good or bad, is just a part of existing. But as humans, with our intelligence, we are capable of doing more to help sustain other life forms and this planet. I think it is our duty to work towards the greater good, but without interfering with the natural processes of Nature itself. It is our duty to help sustain that balance.

"
Not everything can be "perfect" and rosy. To every rose bush there are at least a few thorns."

Ask the rose if her thorn is evil and then tell me whose perception or view of evil is wrong. If you ponder this then you may get touched by the gnosis you seek.

If you retract your comment then come back. If not then we cannot go further.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Perfection is merely a human concept IMHO, I don't see how such a thing could exist as anything more THAN a human concept simply because everyone has their own idea of what "perfection" is. Why must any "god" whether it be "existence" or "Selene" be perfect? Why do imperfections automatically relegate a god to demi-god status?

Because it is a God of a failed system. The true God does not exist in a failed or imperfect system. It is to us to see it from His point of view. Only He see all.

Runewolf sees a thorn and from a limited perspective thinks it evil. God sees it as part of perfection and the rose agrees. As a naturalist this should be obvious to you.
See how handy a label can make things.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

If you like, I have questions.

“Because I don't worship her, nor am I bound by her personal beliefs.”
Can you name one of her personal beliefs. Preferably one that you have rejected.
Can you say how she came to this belief?

“I choose my OWN philosophy. Yes Selene certainly influences that philosophy but only because I accept and want that influence and feel it makes sense.”
How does she communicate this influence?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

First of all, MoonWater is a girl. ^_^ You've been putting labels on her (MoonWater), such as Selenist.




Much wisdom can be found within oneself. Looking up at the moon can allow for emotions and feelings that you didn't even know were there, and that can teach you things. (Because if you didn't know, Selene is the Moon Goddess)

Knowing this label makes a huge difference. She goes from silly to potential.

Regards
DL

 

[Breathe]

If you "seek" God, I'd have to say you probably already missed it.

I beg to differ on that one.

 

[MoonWater]

One of the ineffable qualities of man is that we change labels continuously. A dog is always a dog. It can be a trained dog or a watch dog etc. but always a dog. Man defines himself or herself in a more complicated way because we are infinitely more complex and want and need to bring order to all things. This is why we assume and give labels. We abhor chaos. Atheist believe in nothing in terms of religion, Religionist are all in a large group consisting of all who believe in some kind of religion. Most here are one or the other. Those who follow Buddha like to be separated from Christians, Christians from RC although they stem from the same parent, Moonies from Confucius etc. If I had recognized your Selene or if you would have mentioned moon Goddess then I would have called you a naturalist and have know immediately that you were seeking the way through a natural God instead of hiding this fact we would not have had needed to go through all this ********.
Now we can perhaps gain something. Why were you ashamed to say that you prayed to the moon? Did you expect scorn or laughter? I offer neither. In fact if River wolf had not told me (your label), what you should have, I was ready to say that you had a pooka and I was going to drop you like a hot potato.
If you gain anything from our talk then you should thank her.
Now I can recognize that you use the moon as a focal point for inner though. Not a bad place to begin and much better than some imaginary pooka.
Your thoughts?

Regards
DL

What makes you think I'm ashamed of anything or trying to hide anything. The only reason why I didn't mention that Selene was a moon goddess was because I thought I already had. I also didn't see why that would make any difference whatsoever though. Whether I see her in the moon or as just a "presence" that I feel, doesn't change anything about her. Personaly I don't care if you think Selene a "pooka" or think me "silly" for believing in her. You said you offer neither laughter nor scorn but you offer scorn readily enough, in the way that you call people names and jump to conclusions about them, looking down on others simply because they don't follow your view or your definition of god, or what you think they should believe.

And you've still yet to answer my question of you think everyone's god must be either religious or political, but I'm begining to doubt that you ever will.

 

[MoonWater]

Because it is a God of a failed system. The true God does not exist in a failed or imperfect system. It is to us to see it from His point of view. Only He see all.

Runewolf sees a thorn and from a limited perspective thinks it evil. God sees it as part of perfection and the rose agrees. As a naturalist this should be obvious to you.
See how handy a label can make things.

Regards
DL

I don't think runewolf sees the thorn as evil but rather as just a thorn. But regardless of that I don't see the thorn or the rose as perfect, nor do I see anything else anywhere in the universe or "system" as perfect. I do not believe in perfection same as I do not believe in good and evil. Both are merely constructs of the human mind and thus each human will place different things in each category. These terms are not only very subjective but absolute and I know first hand the damage the illusion of "perfection" can cause... so no I don't find those labels "handy" at all. I can certainly see the use a label such as "dog" but "dog" is a nuetral term, good evil perfection, they are anything but.

 

[MoonWater]

If you like, I have questions.

“Because I don't worship her, nor am I bound by her personal beliefs.”
Can you name one of her personal beliefs. Preferably one that you have rejected.
Can you say how she came to this belief?

“I choose my OWN philosophy. Yes Selene certainly influences that philosophy but only because I accept and want that influence and feel it makes sense.”
How does she communicate this influence?

Regards
DL

It's difficult to explain individual beliefs as we communicate through emotion and feeling rather than words. I think, she feels that meditation is one of the best ways, for her, to deal with volatile emotions, I get this because being in her presence encourages a meditative feeling within me.(I don't know how she came across this exactly but probably just through past experience). However for me, while meditation works well temporarily for some of my emotions like saddness or deppression, I find that especially when it comes to anger and my temper, the best thing for me is to learn how to use the energy of that as a tool and redirect it(something I'm still learning how to do). This works better for me than meditation at least right now as i don't have the self-discipline to sit still when my temper is flaring. So I guess you could say that, at least at this moment, I reject the idea of using meditation to control my anger, but that's mainly because it doesn't really work for me at this point in time.

 

[MoonWater]

Knowing this label makes a huge difference. She goes from silly to potential.

Regards
DL

:spit:. Yeah, cause I was just waiting to have your approval before continuing on in my beliefs.. Why do you insist on name-calling DL, you do know that it's not nice right?

 

[Greatest I am]

I don't think runewolf sees the thorn as evil but rather as just a thorn. But regardless of that I don't see the thorn or the rose as perfect, nor do I see anything else anywhere in the universe or "system" as perfect.

“Not everything can be "perfect" and rosy. To every rose bush there are at least a few thorns.”

He is indicating imperfection. What aspect of the thorn do you think is imperfect? Would you tell the rose to lose it's thorns as a useless appendage?

I do not believe in perfection same as I do not believe in good and evil. Both are merely constructs of the human mind and thus each human will place different things in each category.

Categories are boxes. If I have a box for good and a box for evil, where would you put rape?

These terms are not only very subjective but absolute and I know first hand the damage the illusion of "perfection" can cause... so no I don't find those labels "handy" at all. I can certainly see the use a label such as "dog" but "dog" is a nuetral term,

Not to the dog. It tells him that he is not a cat. Hardly neutral. You accepting the term woman means that you are not a man. Rather a handy label.

good evil perfection, they are anything but.

It is not handy to know that love is good?
Is it not handy to know that murder is evil?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

It's difficult to explain individual beliefs as we communicate through emotion and feeling rather than words. I think, she feels that meditation is one of the best ways, for her, to deal with volatile emotions, I get this because being in her presence encourages a meditative feeling within me.(I don't know how she came across this exactly but probably just through past experience). However for me, while meditation works well temporarily for some of my emotions like saddness or deppression, I find that especially when it comes to anger and my temper, the best thing for me is to learn how to use the energy of that as a tool and redirect it(something I'm still learning how to do). This works better for me than meditation at least right now as i don't have the self-discipline to sit still when my temper is flaring. So I guess you could say that, at least at this moment, I reject the idea of using meditation to control my anger, but that's mainly because it doesn't really work for me at this point in time.

Riverwolf will attest to my temper and patience levels so her I can relate.

I don't know what to say. I ask of philosophy and you answer of emotion.
I am not sure where that leaves us.

To your question on my political and religious Gods, I can only explain by asking you to tell me where else a God can come from because I know of no other sourse. I wait for you to educate me on this.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

:spit:. Yeah, cause I was just waiting to have your approval before continuing on in my beliefs.. Why do you insist on name-calling DL, you do know that it's not nice right?

If a label fits it is neither right or wrong. it just is.

We can either reason or argue. Which would you like?

Regards
DL

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Maybe I'll find "God" in a donut and a cup of coffee. Personally, I try to follow Daryl Zero's advice on finding things.

God's ot in the doughnut. He's in the hole.

 

[ChristineES]

GIA isn't really limiting gods, he is limiting we who worship God. Yes, I am a Christian and follow Jesus' (Y'shua's)teachings but does that mean I fit into some little box marked "Christian"? No. I am influenced by other things, too. My family, my peers, the media, and so on also influence me on things. The RF also helps to understand things I was ignorant about before. No one fits easily into these little boxes marked "Theist", "atheist", and "agnostic".

 

[MoonWater]

He is indicating imperfection. What aspect of the thorn do you think is imperfect? Would you tell the rose to lose it's thorns as a useless appendage?

No I would not. I don't believe perfection exists as any more than a concept within the human mind and as such do not seek to be perfect or find perfection nor try to make other things perfect. If a rose didn't have any thorns it would not be able to defend itself. nothing is nor can be perfect and thus I don't seek or expect anything else to be or try to be perfect.

Categories are boxes. If I have a box for good and a box for evil, where would you put rape?

Why do you insist on doing this DL? I've explained to you like 50 times already why I avoid such labels as good and evil. You may not agree with me but the least you can do is accept that and stop trying to back me into a corner and force me to look at things as being either one way or the other. I'm not going to play this game with you. What you seem to fail to grasp is that just because I don't label something as evil doesn't mean I am in favor of it or even apathetic towards it. If some guy tried to rape me he would quickly find himself mauled and castrated. But I don't deal in absolutes. And I'm really not in the mood to take the time to explain it to you again why I feel this way.

Not to the dog. It tells him that he is not a cat. Hardly neutral. You accepting the term woman means that you are not a man. Rather a handy label.

good evil perfection, they are anything but.

It is not handy to know that love is good?
Is it not handy to know that murder is evil?

Regards
DL
__________________

Love can lead to heartbreak and murder can save lives depending on the circumstances. If someone had broken into hitler's house and shot him before or early on in the holocaust many lives could have been saved.

 

[MoonWater]

Riverwolf will attest to my temper and patience levels so her I can relate.

I don't know what to say. I ask of philosophy and you answer of emotion.
I am not sure where that leaves us.

you asked of belief but meditation can be philosophical and emotive depending on the type used. Her philosophy doesn't come into play much as she is guiding me on MY OWN path and not trying to take me down her's. I already told you that we communicate through emotion and feeling so it would only be natural that her personal philosophy would be difficult to dictate to me. Perhaps I'm not being clear in terms of influence. Her presence and guidance would naturally have an influence on me spiritually and from there an influence on me philosophically. If she didn't have some influence there would be no point in seeking her guidance.

To your question on my political and religious Gods, I can only explain by asking you to tell me where else a God can come from because I know of no other sourse. I wait for you to educate me on this.

Regards
DL

Where else can a god come from? I say anywhere and everywhere.

 

[Greatest I am]

M W

That being the case. There is nothing I can offer.

Please go away.

Regards
DL

 

[MoonWater]

If a label fits it is neither right or wrong. it just is.

We can either reason or argue. Which would you like?

Regards
DL

I'd like to reason but I fail to see how that can happen when you resort to name-calling, putting words in my mouth, and trying to back me into corners by asking me to say if something is one thing or another when I have already explained to you about 50 times that I don't think ANYTHING is either of those things. It would be easier to reason with you if you didn't keep trying to shape me to fit your particular mold. I don't conform to other people's ideas or ideals nor do I fit any stereotypes. I do not and will never fit into any mold you try to cast me in. I'll merely break it apart and walk away from you to spend my time with someone who will actually accept me for who I am rather than call me silly or foolish just because I don't follow his particular world view.