Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Not a good thing to accuse someone of when you yourself don't use the correct word.
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Most recent cases and deaths of Covid-19 are unvaccinated.
- Thread starter shunyadragon
- Start date
Correct word for what ? What is this nonsense -speak .. I accused someone of claiming I said 100% efficiency .. which I didn't say. now what is this word I used incorrectly ?
Correct word for what ? What is this nonsense -speak .. I accused someone of claiming I said 100% efficiency .. which I didn't say. now what is this word I used incorrectly ?
It's "efficacy".
Dang it, you broke the thing!
matters not .. efficacy or efficiency .. I didn't claim 100% of efficacy .... and only someone having no understanding of the subject matter would think that preventing Transmission means 100% ...
What doesn't mean much is Strawman fallacy and coupled with typo-nazism. All this deflection doesn't change the fact that the Vax did not prevent transmission ... nor slow it down in any significant way .. Did you notice that the viral loading was the same .. vaxed or unvaxed .. now that was interesting .. 4 out of 5 of those in hospital vaxed --- .. slightly higher than the vaxed to unvaxed ratio of 75% .. so much for less symptoms from the Jab .. keeping folks out of the Hospital. guess there were not to many members of the Severe immune compromized .. Morbidly Obese and over 80- with 3 comorbidities at the show .. who were averse to vax .. as many are .. could have bumped up the unvaxed stats .. but that is not representative of the community now is it. Hospital stats don't apply to the 99.99% .. just that small group of folks .. most in old folks homes .. cant get out of bed never mind make it to the Massachussets event.
Do you understand now ? The vax did not do anything to reduce hospitalizations ..in this most excellent of Studies .. .. CDC: 74% Of People Infected in Massachusetts COVID-19 Outbreak Were Vaccinated
That's not a typo.
It's choosing the wrong word because of similarity.
But that's a minor quibble not worth pursuing.
I've addressed your posts directly, Berford.
And that claim remains misleading factual irrelevance.
We're covering well trodden ground.
I've nothing new to add.
you did not refute that the immune compromized benefit most ? --- If I missed it do give me the post number.
How is posting an excellent study a red herring ? A study that showed no transmission and no symptom reduction .. a study that showed no hospitalization p;revention ?
So to your question/assertion - "Vax safer than the infection - saved many lives .. the answer to which depends on the person.. The infection posed a very low risk of harm to healthy people .. and in fact in the initial stages of Covid you needed to be "All of the Above" above 80 - severe immune compromized - Morbidly Obese with multiple comorbidities to even get sick ... Chances of a healthy person dying from "Covid" are extremely low .. in the millions for healthy children .. so where are you getting lives saved .. given there is no life to be saved to begin with ..
Obviously the vax helps the weak .. as the Unvaxed weak are showing up at the hospital at a rate far higher than the vaxed .. the lie is when you try and extend this data to the general population ... a population who never showed up at the hospital .. never mind died (sans the 1 in 500,000 who dies from a bee sting - and who knows why that was .. and no guarantee the vax would have helped them anyway)
You asked for falsifying evidence and was given it .. 4 our of 5 people that found the hospital in the Study were vaxed .. out of a group that was 74 % vaxed .. Didn't prevent transmission .. didn't prevent hospitalization ..
"Mainstream Medicine" = I understand your angst.. that mainsteram medicine has gone along with the lie is extremly disturbing and the reasons complicated but "losing one's Job" is a big part of it -- the State Coercion and liberty violation you could not care a less about .. but that is another story ..
The Phase 3 clinical Trial Data from pfizer/moderna - given in the study below shows 1 in 800 SAE - Severe Adverse Effect.
Serious adverse events of special interest following mRNA COVID-19 vaccination in randomized trials in adults
In 2020, prior to COVID-19 vaccine rollout, the Brighton Collaboration created a priority list, endorsed by the World Health Organization, of potential adverse events relevant to COVID-19 vaccines. We adapted the Brighton Collaboration list to evaluate ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
So this is 125 per 100,000 - The Swine Flu vax was taken off the shelves (too dangerous) for an 1 in 100,000 SAE
An SAE of 1 in 800 is ridiculously unsafe .. yet mainstream medicine to a person will tell you it is "SAFE" "Safe and Effective"
Do you believe that 1 in 800 Severe Adverse reaction is SAFE ? and why .. Your position is that the vax is safer than facing Covid unvaxed .. but do you know what safe means ? do you have any idea what the risk of harm from the vax is .. and if you did not know this how can you maintain such a position with anything other than "I believe Gov't - mainstream medicine" appeal to authority fallacy.
I am telling you .. and showing you .. the extremely disturbing finding that Gov't and Mainstream medicine are lying.. and believe me .. I am more disturbed than you by this finding.
Same idea as the typo Nazism .. that I used the wrong word for your strawman is relevant to nothing other than fallacious rabbit hole.
You were given factual evidence for inability of the Vax to prevent transmission .. you the one who "remains misleading" claiming the vax does prevent transmission.. and also the one who has no idea what prevention of transmission means .. demonstrated by use of the term 100% efficacy in your strawman fallacy .. not realizing that Prevention of Transmission does not mean 100%.
CDC: 74% Of People Infected in Massachusetts COVID-19 Outbreak Were Vaccinated
What part of -- no prevention of transmission .. your claim to the contrary being completely misleading and in fact proven falsehood - are you not understanding ?
That's not a "strawman".
It was a minor correction (for your edification).
As this post is too.
Straw man - Wikipedia
I'm here to help.
But sometimes I'm really annoying when doing so.
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I will not be addressing your argument above. I will begin to treat your words as if they mean something when you return the courtesy. All of this was in my previous post to you, and all ignored:
"How about we identify our positions, where they differ, and discuss those differences rather than playing this game. My position is that the vaccine was safer than the infection, that it saved many lives, that it prevented many cases of sever Covid requiring hospitalization, that it protected life savings, that it prevented some children becoming orphans, that it reduced the incidence of long Covid.
Do you disagree with any of that? If so, what part specifically, and do you have falsifying argument (rebuttal) or is just a hunch that the idea is incorrect? If you agree with it all, what's your objection? What are you arguing? It seems to be nothing but irrelevancies that seem to imply that the vaccine isn't a good idea and shouldn't be taken, but don't actually make that case. Is that your position? If so, please state it explicitly and present whatever data you have in support, or admit that you really have no thesis or argument, just a vague grievance for no apparent reason unless it has something to do with your son losing his job over a vaccine mandate. Is that what this is?"
It's also off-putting that you didn't see my comments on vaccination and the immunocompromised. What did you see that I wrote to you?
You won't engage (discussed here). You have my position (in italics above), and you apparently have no interest in cooperating with me in discussion, so, we're done. There's nothing in it for me. I have no interest in addressing your comments only to have mine disrespected. Like any relationship, it's a quid pro quo kind of thing - a mistake many make even in their marriages. We should always be aware of what we give the other lest they simply walk away as I've done here.
That's not a "strawman".
It was a minor correction for your edification.
As this post is too.
Straw man - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I'm here to help.
But sometimes I'm really annoying when doing so.
What was not a strawman .. You accusing me of something I didn't say ? 100% efficacy .. of course was the old SM .. desperate and not helpful at all .. near as silly as the typo Nazism .. but while "really annoying" is a polite way of putting it .. some of that for sure
Now -- Don't be Jabbing your sons and daughters .. a game of Russian Roulette -- "Really bad outcome and possible death" being the bullet in the chamber thinking - 1 in 800 chance is pretty good odds -- "Do ya feel Lucky Punk" ? (video attached to get the hollywood effect). Its not .. these are terrible odds my friend.
Do you want a "Severe Adverse Reaction" ? -- like my friends kid who spent 3 days in the hospital on morphine the chest pains so bad .. now has scarring for life of liver .. but not sure that would qualify as "Severe" life was not threatened enough .. has to be real danger of death .. more often along the lines of drowning in your own fluids from Pnemonia and put on a ventillator.
The risk of getting something from Covid unvaxed (assuming the vaxed person would not get it which is completely false .. demonstrated by the Massachussets study -- but giving the benefit of the doubt) is ridiculously low for a healthy person .. odds of making it into the hospital are rediculously low for healthy person - never mind a Severe Adverse Reaction which is in the hundreds of thousands if not millions .. nowwhere near 1 in 800 ... not even in the same ballpark . ... not the same solar system .. It is a hands down Risk of harm from vax greater than from Covid unvaxed .. especially Omicron which was less lethal than average flu .. which kills 20 per 100,000 every year. Covid by comparison was double that .. 40 per 100,000 in my region of 5 million so good sample size .. a number similar to the EU figures
While 40 per 100,000 is double the annual average .. which is a problem for Hospital Capacity .. double the normal .. it is hardly a figure warrented by the term "Pandemic" .. certainly not plague numbers ... an order of magnitude x 2.5 away from 1% .. never mind 50% .. in that nasty one in the 6th century AD.
So who are these people that died ? -- 95% had one or more comorbidity ..most having 3 or more. What about the other 5% .. who are they ? Pnumonia takes 9 out of 10 .. so folks who are immune compromized .. just not severe enough to be considered a comorb.. 75% of these folks Morbidy Obese - Covid liked the Old and Obese -
Run the math leaving out the age factor .. and you are looking ab 5% x 0.1 x 0.25 = 0.125 % of folks dead "might have been" a person of normal/ reasonable health.
Now assuming 90% of the population has had Covid .. use Canada 50,000 Dead and 38 million people 34 million had covid .. say 30 million are reasonably healthy .. 63 "maybe healthy people" out of 30 million is roughy 2 per million or 1 in 500,000 .. and this is a may have been healthy .. and leaves out a bunch of other factors such as age .. .. taking the actual number much higher .. into the millions ..
and there is no good evidence to suggest that the vax would have helped this 1 in 500,000 healthy person who happened to die .. and this is including Delta and Alpha into the equation which was far more toxic than Omicron.. .. meaning you shouldn't be jabbing as the risk of harm from Omicron -- next gen varients .. is much much lower than the Risk of harm from the Jab..
"Do ya feel lucky" -- 1 in 800 Severe Adverse Reaction is the average .. for males 16-30 is 300% higher risk of myocharditis ~ 1 in 300.
But wait .. pull the trigger 3 times a year for 10 years = 30 times playing the game .. now the chance of having a "Life threatening experience where you nearly died -- have after the fact repercussions and may actually die .. are 1 in 10. and that is just over 10 years.
Over a lifetime ? "Do ya feel lucky Punk"
I've no accusations for you.
Well, now I must accuse you of proffering
dangerous mis-information.
To discourage parents from vaccinating kids
against disease is evil because it causes infirmity
& death.
Don't pay Russian Roulette with hepatitis, polio,
tetanus, Covid, diphtheria, pertussis, pneumonia,
flu, measles, mumps, papillomavirus, etc.
Now that is some narly collectivist doublespeak .. characterizing information from the CDC and the journals of medical science as "Dangerous misinformation" because it conflicts with some forced medical treatment mandate you wish to impose on people.
According to Science 1 in 800 people suffer severe adverse effects Serious adverse events of special interest following mRNA COVID-19 vaccination in randomized trials in adults but this is not for silly made up list of yours "hepatitis, polio, tetanus, diphtheria, pertussis, pneumonia, flu, measles, mumps, papillomavirus, etc" ? You must have gotten confused somewhere along way and forgot that it is the mRNA vax for Covid being discussed .. not all those other things. You need to try harder to focus on what is being discused friend .. and not made up fantasy strawmen..
I did no such thing friend ? I am not the one in favor of forced medical treatment .. .. not the one spouting fake news and wild claims saying the CDC study was misleading and factually irrelevant.
It is not my fault the Study clearly shows that the Vax did not prevent transmission (and the CDC has stated this) -- and I am sorry that the media sources you been listening to have been talking up the falsehood ... Rachel Madow being the butt of many a Joke on this basis.
I did not given any deadly anti science advice .. what is this nonsense you are talking ? you are the one wishing to force unwanted medical treatment on others .. treatment that according to "The Science" can result in Serious Adverse Reaction and even death.
"Combined, the mRNA vaccines were associated with an excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest of 12.5 per 10,000 vaccinated"
Serious adverse events of special interest following mRNA COVID-19 vaccination in randomized trials in adults
In 2020, prior to COVID-19 vaccine rollout, the Brighton Collaboration created a priority list, endorsed by the World Health Organization, of potential adverse events relevant to COVID-19 vaccines. We adapted the Brighton Collaboration list to evaluate ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
At least now we're friends.
But don't give me health care advice.
Why are you projecting your desire to control the healthcare decisions of others on to me .. as if this is my issue ? I am not the one wanting to force medical treatment on others via Law .. violating bodily autonomy. That is the song you have been singing .. chirping along with those progressive Blue Tropes .. not understanding but looking for hope . Thats not my path friend .. big fan of the Constitutional Republic and the founding principle. Essential liberty not something to be carelessly disgaurded on the basis of fallacious utilitarianism ..
So no no no Friend ... I won't be forcing no medical treatment your direction .. as the good book says .. don't do to others what you don't want done to you .. If you don't want others messing with your right to bodily autonomy .. then don't do that to them.. and this includes the use of force or coercion in the workplace .. threatening one's job if you don't have sex with the boss ..
Not me wanting to tell women what they should do with an accidental pregnancy .. try to force them to carry pregnancy to term .. like these folks engaged in the collectivist fallacious utilitarinism .. as justification for law .. pounding the propaganda .. as justification for violation.
Nope Brother Revol - you got me mixed up with someone else .. someone with no respect for essential individual liberty.
You misunderstand so very much.
I impose medical treatments on no one.
Although there are exceptions for children
who need care, & parents refuse it.
No one should be forced to vaccinate.
But if they choose not to, others have the
right to exclude them from some venues.
Don't make false statements about vaccine
danger & lack of efficacy in a misguided
attempt to argue against forced vaccination.
That is dangerous to the weak minded.
I did not make any false statements about vaccine danger ? and who are these "Weak minded" who have nothing better than false accusation "Strawman fallacy" .. and personal invective ..
There is no right to exclude others on the basis of vax status .. any more than the right to exclude Jews - Gays or Black folk on the basis of fallacious utilitarianism .. Who is the one who .. in your words "misunderstands so very much" LOL
"No one should be forced to vaccinate" -- Excellent .. glad you finally understand that "Jab or lose job -(or other consequence)" is forced medical treatment .. that finally you have seen the light and are against such law .. and that you are now against Biden Mandates.
Last - the belief that there is no danger from the mRNA vaccines is false .. is this the "Misguided falsehood" you were referring to ? Myocharditis is one of the dangers you can go to this Gov't site and read about Myocharditis and other dangers. COVID-19 vaccine safety: Report on side effects following immunization - Canada.ca
Stranger than the typo Nazi ? I don't think so .. how one would think the typo nazism is an argument for something is as strange as it gets friend. or how about them folks running around wanting to forcefully Jab thy neighbor .. wanting mandates and so on .. haters of liberty these folks. Do you not agree that hatred of liberty and freedom is even stranger than ....
Typo...yeah, that was what happened.Stranger than the typo Nazi ? I don't think so .. how one would think the typo nazism is an argument for something is as strange as it gets friend. or how about them folks running around wanting to forcefully Jab thy neighbor .. wanting mandates and so on .. haters of liberty these folks. Do you not agree that hatred of liberty and freedom is even stranger than ....
I'll leave it at that.