Mother mary without sin?

[Eliana]

False as some parts may be true and some false.



How could one know with any degree of certainty whether it is or is not divine?



Again, that's simply not true as some parts may be true and some other parts false.



Correct, but it's unfortunate that freedom of opinion is absent. In my former synagogue it was much more open, including in Torah study that I was involved with for over a decade.

Personally, I don't think the synagogue should be a place for brainwashing, but to each their own.

You're a slow learner. I don't care if you don't believe in the Torah, or what you believe at all. At no point did you see me ask you your opinion on Judaism or the divinity of the Torah, nor did I attempt to tell you what to believe. Repeating your opinion as if it's indisputable fact doesn't make it so, it just means your full of yourself and not nearly as smart as you think you are.

You also do yourself no favours calling people "brainwashed". You are not inside other people's heads and are in no position to postulate why they believe as they do. You aren't one iota smarter or more insightful then anyone else.

 

[RabbiO]

Mother mary without sin?


Moses was never a Jew and he never followed any Judaism, please, right?
Moses never attended any "Synagogue", right, please?
If yes, then kindly quote from Moses in first person in a straightforward, unequivocal and unambiguous manner, please, right?

Regards

Even a face palm emoji gives too much attention to your post. However, to totally ignore the post would be to confer a level of legitimacy to its content that is unthinkable.

 

[metis]

You're a slow learner. I don't care if you don't believe in the Torah, or what you believe at all. At no point did you see me ask you your opinion on Judaism or the divinity of the Torah, nor did I attempt to tell you what to believe. Repeating your opinion as if it's indisputable fact doesn't make it so, it just means your full of yourself and not nearly as smart as you think you are.

You also do yourself no favours calling people "brainwashed". You are not inside other people's heads and are in no position to postulate why they believe as they do. You aren't one iota smarter or more insightful then anyone else.

Seems that throwing insults at those who may disagree with you is your m.o. On top of that, what you had me supposedly saying above is simply wrong-headed.

Anyhow, tikkun olam is not enhanced with such misplaced sarcasm, so maybe reconsider your approach.

Over & Out.

 

[Eliana]

Seems that throwing insults at those who may disagree with you is your m.o. On top of that, what you had me supposedly saying above is simply wrong-headed.

Anyhow, tikkun olam is not enhanced with such misplaced sarcasm, so maybe reconsider your approach.

Over & Out.

I didn't insult you, I said you were a slow learner which was based on you repeating yourself and continuing to make statements I've already expressed my indifference to. You being offended does not equate an insult. I will remind you that you implied religious Jews are brainwashed which is in fact insulting.

Moreover for a guy who claims to have taught in a synagogue for twenty years one would think you'd know halakha better. "Tikkun olam" means to make the world better, such as charity or repairing societal wrongs. The term you want is probably "nivul peh" or "lashon hara" which means vulgar speech and negative speech respectively, but I didn't do those either. I wasn't being vulgar and I didn't damage you financially or socially.

You keep saying I'm misquoting you but never bother to correct me. I have a very high caliber bullpucky detector and can root out a smart donkey or a liar very, very quickly. Your own M.O. seems to be repeating your opinion as if it's absolute fact, then accusing someone of misquoting and insulting you when they don't put up with said bullpucky.

 

[Muffled]

Well, that's fine for a sola scriptura Protestant like you. But the majority of Chrsitains in the world (Catholic, Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox) are not "bible only." Their authority is the Church, which of course includes the Bible, but also considers things like the decisions of ecumenical councils to be inspired and authoritative for doctrine.

I believe councils can be wrong.

 

[Muffled]

No one is without sin not even Jesus.

I believe Jesus is without sin because He is God in the flesh.

 

[Muffled]

Isn't sex outside marriage considered to be a sin?

I don't believe that ever occurred. There was no sex involved in the conception of Jesus.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I believe councils can be wrong.

Sure. And you aren't Catholic, Anglican, or Eastern Orthodox.

 

[blü 2]

I don't believe that ever occurred. There was no sex involved in the conception of Jesus.

We're speaking of the Jesus of Matthew and the Jesus of Luke here, not the other three (where the Jesus of Mark is a standard Jewish male until God adopts him, and the Jesus of Paul and the Jesus of John pre-existed in heaven and came to earth in an undescribed manner that according to their authors allowed them to claim descent from David).

The linking of a spermatozoon (divine or not) with a standard ovum is not sex?

I fear we disagree.

Besides, what's wrong with sex? It's why nearly all critters above microorganisms exist and multiply on the earth.

 

[Betho_br]

We're speaking of the Jesus of Matthew and the Jesus of Luke here, not the other three (where the Jesus of Mark is a standard Jewish male until God adopts him, and the Jesus of Paul and the Jesus of John pre-existed in heaven and came to earth in an undescribed manner that according to their authors allowed them to claim descent from David).

The linking of a spermatozoon (divine or not) with a standard ovum is not sex?

I fear we disagree.

Besides, what's wrong with sex? It's why nearly all critters above microorganisms exist and multiply on the earth.

According to Christian doctrine, Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and, since He did not inherit Joseph's Y chromosome, He does not biologically belong to the *Homo sapiens* species. His origin is supernatural, and while He assumed human form, His divine conception sets Him apart from natural biological reproduction.

 

[blü 2]

According to Christian doctrine, Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and, since He did not inherit Joseph's Y chromosome, He does not biologically belong to the *Homo sapiens* species. His origin is supernatural, and while He assumed human form, His divine conception sets Him apart from natural biological reproduction.

No, the NT gives three distinct versions of Jesus' origins. The closest to a credible one, Mark's, appears however to be the least publicized.

The Jesus of Paul, like the Jesus of John, pre-existed in heaven with God, and (since God was spirit of such purity that [he]'d never do it himself) created the material universe, regardless of what Genesis says, but reflecting gnostic beliefs of the time. The manner in which they came to earth is never described, nor their parents mentioned or named, but both authors claim that their Jesus is descended from David.

The Jesus of Mark is an ordinary Jewish male until his baptism by JtB, at which point the heavens open, and God adopts him as his son, as God had earlier adopted David as his son (Psalm 2:7, as expressly affirmed in Acts 13:33).

The Jesus of Matthew and the Jesus of Luke are said to be the result of the divine insemination of Mary while she was still a virgin. This is claimed, credibly in my view, to be due to the author of Matthew reading Isaiah 7:14 in translation ie in the Septuagint, where 'alma (young woman) is translated into Greek as 'parthenos' (virgin), and of the author of Luke copying him.

 

[paarsurrey]

Mother Mary without sin?

Moses was never a Jew and he never followed any Judaism, please, right?
Moses never attended any "Synagogue", right, please?
If yes, then kindly quote from Moses in first person in a straightforward, unequivocal and unambiguous manner, please, right?

Isn't it an allegation on Moses that he was a "Jew", and Moses never knew that he was one, right, please?

Regards

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Mother Mary without sin?

Isn't it an allegation on Moses that he was a "Jew", and Moses never knew that he was one, right, please?

Regards

Once again, and please listen this time.
Hebrew/Israelite/Jew are synonyms. They are interchangable. Each is associated with a period of time, not different groups.
Hebrew is used to label us from the time of Abraham to Moses.
Israelite is used for us as well, but from the time of Moses until the Babylonian captivity.
And finally, Jew is used to label us beginning in Babylon, and continuing to this day.

If you say Moses is a Hebrew, you are saying he is a Jew.
If you say Moses was an Israelite, you are saying he is a Jew.

 

[Betho_br]

No, the NT gives three distinct versions of Jesus' origins. The closest to a credible one, Mark's, appears however to be the least publicized.

The Jesus of Paul, like the Jesus of John, pre-existed in heaven with God, and (since God was spirit of such purity that [he]'d never do it himself) created the material universe, regardless of what Genesis says, but reflecting gnostic beliefs of the time. The manner in which they came to earth is never described, nor their parents mentioned or named, but both authors claim that their Jesus is descended from David.

The Jesus of Mark is an ordinary Jewish male until his baptism by JtB, at which point the heavens open, and God adopts him as his son, as God had earlier adopted David as his son (Psalm 2:7, as expressly affirmed in Acts 13:33).

The Jesus of Matthew and the Jesus of Luke are said to be the result of the divine insemination of Mary while she was still a virgin. This is claimed, credibly in my view, to be due to the author of Matthew reading Isaiah 7:14 in translation ie in the Septuagint, where 'alma (young woman) is translated into Greek as 'parthenos' (virgin), and of the author of Luke copying him.

Yes, Mark's gospel portrays Jesus without the virgin birth. As for the Hebrew word for young woman/virgin, in other places in the Hebrew Bible where it occurs, it corresponds to virgin, but I would have to search and I have no tool for now.

 

[blü 2]

Yes, Mark's gospel portrays Jesus without the virgin birth. As for the Hebrew word for young woman/virgin, in other places in the Hebrew Bible where it occurs, it corresponds to virgin, but I would have to search and I have no tool for now.

In the Tanakh, the word for specifying a virgin is (with various transliterations) bᵊṯûlâ.

The word in Isaiah 7:14 is ʿalmâ, young woman of marriageable age, which may include virgins but is not virgin-specific.

And as for whether Isaiah 7:14 is a prophecy of Jesus, note that this "prophecy" is fulfilled in full early in Isaiah 8, so clearly it can't be a prophecy of Jesus ─ nor do Paul or the authors of Mark and John think it is.

On the other hand, the author of Matthew is so keen to dig up parts of the Tanakh that he thinks can be used as prophecies that he even has Jesus riding into Jerusalem (Matthew 21:2-5) to "fulfill" Zechariah 9:9, astride both a foal and a donkey, so he clearly tends to get carried away with this style of storytelling.

 

[Betho_br]

In the Tanakh, the word for specifying a virgin is (with various transliterations) bᵊṯûlâ.

The word in Isaiah 7:14 is [/i]ʿalmâ[/i], young woman of marriageable age, which may include virgins but is not virgin-specific.

And as for whether Isaiah 7:14 is a prophecy of Jesus, note that this "prophecy" is fulfilled in full early in Isaiah 8, so clearly it can't be a prophecy of Jesus ─ nor do Paul or the authors of Mark and John think it is.

On the other hand, the author of Matthew is so keen to dig up parts of the Tanakh that he thinks can be used as prophecies that he even has Jesus riding into Jerusalem (Matthew 21:2-5) to "fulfill" Zechariah 9:9, astride both a foal and a donkey, so he clearly tends to get carried away with this style of storytelling.

I will analyze these arguments calmly and get back to you.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes, Mark's gospel portrays Jesus without the virgin birth. As for the Hebrew word for young woman/virgin, in other places in the Hebrew Bible where it occurs, it corresponds to virgin, but I would have to search and I have no tool for now.

I'm glad you are intending to look into this more thoroughly. Because Christians are driven by such as strong need to make "almah" to mean virgin, I would avoid those sources.

There are actually two words: "almah" means young woman, and "betulah" means virgin. Isaiah 7:14 uses almah, young woman.

 

[Betho_br]

I'm glad you are intending to look into this more thoroughly. Because Christians are driven by such as strong need to make "almah" to mean virgin, I would avoid those sources.

There are actually two words: "almah" means young woman, and "betulah" means virgin. Isaiah 7:14 uses almah, young woman.

It will take a while as I don't have my search tool.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It will take a while as I don't have my search tool.

You take all the time you need. Life is learning. There is no rush. There is only joy.

 

[metis]

I'm glad you are intending to look into this more thoroughly. Because Christians are driven by such as strong need to make "almah" to mean virgin, I would avoid those sources.

There are actually two words: "almah" means young woman, and "betulah" means virgin. Isaiah 7:14 uses almah, young woman.

And Isaiah is not really about Jesus as you well know. Even Jerome's Bible Commentary [Catholic] admits that.