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Mother Teresa wars

Did the world benefit from Mother Teresa?


  • Total voters
    20

Spiderman

Veteran Member
images

So it seems there is a battle I repeatedly see over Mother Teresa. Hitchens I don't trust cuz I saw him in a debate with a pastor where he made multiple bitter hateful remarks, glorified atheism, and the only thing he had to say about Mother Teresa was " the Albanian Troll" and the "old *****"

To call a woman that who loves those who were unloved and taught others to do so and dedicated her life to easing other peoples suffering destroys his credibility IMO.

Mother Teresa belonged to a religion that doesn't see suffering and death as always a bad thing, so at times she spoke highly of suffering (and suffered tremendously herself.)

So, some would say that is dark and inconsiderate of her to glorify suffering. However, she dedicated her life to feeding the hungry, giving to the needy, Sheltering the homeless, taking the dying off the streets , and giving them shelter , a mattress , and die with dignity and love, and taught others to relieve the world's suffering and misery.

So, to a certain certain extent she did not love suffering or she would not have dedicated her life to easing other's pain and encouraging the rest of the world to do so.

Christianity, Muslims, and Hindus make up more than 4 billion people in our world and they speak highly of suffering. Hindus and Buddhists go on starvation diets and many pagans do as well.

So, far more than half of the world adheres to religions that to some extent glorify suffering.

So, most of the world probably does not object to Mother Teresa's positive comments about suffering.

Mother Teresa allegedly said that AIDS and sexually transmitted diseases were a punishment from God for sexual immorality. Although such views are unkind and offensive , those are very common views in any monotheistic religion, and if everybody was to not engage in behavior that Mother Teresa would consider sexually immoral, many of these STDs would not be able to survive or hardly ever spread.

She allegedly denied certain missions painkillers. I don't know the credibility of this claim , but at the same time I have seen multiple deaths from drug overdoses in my life and every one of them was from opioids. An enourmous amount of talented people and celebrities were robbed from the World by opiate overdose.

Many who have not died from painkiller overdose have still ruined their life from addiction to painkillers , and harmed other people as well. I love morphine and Fentanyl, but when I look at the damage that opiates have done, it seems they have not done our world more good than harm.

Some say that's Mother Teresa just wanted to convert people to Catholicism ,but I never heard her say that other religions are going to hell or that Hindus or Muslims in her missions had to convert.( I doubt many of them did)... neither did I ever hear her say that non Catholics or non Christians would go to hell.

Others say she used the poor to get rich and famous. I don't think so because she went into one of the worst ghettos in the world without any bodyguards or means to supports herself financially, and there was nothing in it for her but the risk of death, disease, starvation, suffering, and no guarantee that she would get famous at all.

When there was war in Lebanon and Christians were getting killed just for being Christian, people in the church were telling her not to go into Lebanon during the conflict, and that her life was at risk. She went there anyways and there was nothing in it for her but a lot of Sorrow, a lot of Orphan children, a lot of injured people, and the risk of her own life.

So, it is clear to me that Mother Teresa did enormous amount of good for our world, and if everybody followed her example , there would be no violence. The sick, the hungry, the poor, the lonely, the dying , and the homeless would be cared for.

What do you think?
 
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Sapiens

Polymathematician
So it seems there is a battle I repeatedly see over Mother Teresa. Hitchens I don't trust cuz I saw him in a debate with a pastor where he made multiple bitter hateful remarks, glorified atheism, and the only thing he had to say about Mother Teresa was " the Albanian Troll" and the "old *****"

To call a woman that who loves those who were unloved and taught others to do so and dedicated her life to easing other peoples suffering destroys his credibility IMO.

Mother Teresa belonged to a religion that doesn't see suffering and death as always a bad thing, so at times she spoke highly of suffering (and suffered tremendously herself.)

So, some would say that is dark and inconsiderate of her to glorify suffering. However, she dedicated her life to feeding the hungry, giving to the needy, Sheltering the homeless, taking the dying off the streets , and giving them shelter , a mattress , and die with dignity and love, and taught others to relieve the world's suffering and misery.

So, to a certain certain extent she did not love suffering or she would not have dedicated her life to easing other's pain and encouraging the rest of the world to do so.

Christianity, Muslims, and Hindus make up more than 4 billion people in our world and they speak highly of suffering. Hindus and Buddhists go on starvation diets and many pagans do as well.

So, far more than half of the world adheres to religions that to some extent glorify suffering.

So, most of the world probably does not object to Mother Teresa's positive comments about suffering.

Mother Teresa allegedly said that AIDS and sexually transmitted diseases were a punishment from God for sexual immorality. Although such views are unkind and offensive , those are very common views in any monotheistic religion, and if everybody was to not engage in behavior that Mother Teresa would consider sexually immoral, many of these STDs would not be able to survive or hardly ever spread.

She allegedly denied certain missions painkillers. I don't know the credibility of this claim , but at the same time I have seen multiple deaths from drug overdoses in my life and every one of them was from opioids. An enourmous amount of talented people and celebrities were robbed from the World by opiate overdose.

Many who have not died from painkiller overdose have still ruined their life from addiction to painkillers , and harmed other people as well. I love morphine and Fentanyl, but when I look at the damage that opiates have done, it seems they have not done our world more good than harm.

Some say that's Mother Teresa just wanted to convert people to Catholicism ,but I never heard her say that other religions are going to hell or that Hindus or Muslims in her missions had to convert.( I doubt many of them did)... neither did I ever hear her say that non Catholics or non Christians would go to hell.

Others say she used the poor to get rich and famous. I don't think so because she went into one of the worst ghettos in the world without any bodyguards or means to supports herself financially, and there was nothing in it for her but the risk of death, disease, starvation, suffering, and no guarantee that she would get famous at all.

When there was war in Lebanon and Christians were getting killed just for being Christian, people in the church were telling her not to go into Lebanon during the conflict, and that her life was at risk. She went there anyways and there was nothing in it for her but a lot of Sorrow, a lot of Orphan children, a lot of injured people, and the risk of her own life.

So, it is clear to me that Mother Teresa did enormous amount of good for our world, and if everybody followed her example , there would be no violence. The sick, the hungry, the poor, the lonely, the dying , and the homeless would be cared for.

What do you think?
The summary below is from an official press release by the Université de Montréal concerning a paper by Serge Larivée and Genevieve Chenard of University of Montreal's Department of Psychoeducation and Carole Sénéchal of the University of Ottawa's Faculty of Education. The paper will be published in the March issue of the journal Studies in Religion/Sciences religieuses and is an analysis of the published writings about Mother Teresa. The researchers conclude that her hallowed image does not stand up to analysis of the facts, it was constructed, and her beatification was orchestrated by an effective media relations campaign.

"While looking for documentation on the phenomenon of altruism for a seminar on ethics, one of us stumbled upon the life and work of one of Catholic Church's most celebrated woman and now part of our collective imagination - Mother Teresa - whose real name was Agnes Gonxha," says Professor Larivée, who led the research. "The description was so ecstatic that it piqued our curiosity and pushed us to research further."

As a result, the three researchers collected 502 documents on the life and work of Mother Teresa. After eliminating 195 duplicates, they consulted 287 documents to conduct their analysis, representing 96% of the literature on the founder of the Order of the Missionaries of Charity (OMC). Facts debunk the myth of Mother Teresa

In their article, Serge Larivée and his colleagues also cite a number of problems not take into account by the Vatican in Mother Teresa's beatification process, such as "her rather dubious way of caring for the sick, her questionable political contacts, her suspicious management of the enormous sums of money she received, and her overly dogmatic views regarding, in particular, abortion, contraception, and divorce."The release levels three types of accusations against mother Teresa and her supporters (quotes are direct from the press release):

1. The woman was in love with suffering and simply didn't take care of her charges, many of whom fruitlessly sought medical care."At the time of her death, Mother Teresa had opened 517 missions welcoming the poor and sick in more than 100 countries. The missions have been described as "homes for the dying" by doctors visiting several of these establishments in Calcutta. Two-thirds of the people coming to these missions hoped to a find a doctor to treat them, while the other third lay dying without receiving appropriate care. The doctors observed a significant lack of hygiene, even unfit conditions, as well as a shortage of actual care, inadequate food, and no painkillers. The problem is not a lack of money - the Foundation created by Mother Teresa has raised hundreds of millions of dollars - but rather a particular conception of suffering and death: "There is something beautiful in seeing the poor accept their lot, to suffer it like Christ's Passion. The world gains much from their suffering," was her reply to criticism, cites the journalist Christopher Hitchens. Nevertheless, when Mother Teresa required palliative care, she received it in a modern American hospital."

2. She was tightfisted about helping others, sequestered money donated for her work, and took money from dictators."Mother Teresa was generous with her prayers but rather miserly with her foundation's millions when it came to humanity's suffering. During numerous floods in India or following the explosion of a pesticide plant in Bhopal, she offered numerous prayers and medallions of the Virgin Mary but no direct or monetary aid. On the other hand, she had no qualms about accepting the Legion of Honour and a grant from the Duvalier dictatorship in Haiti. Millions of dollars were transferred to the MCO's various bank accounts, but most of the accounts were kept secret, Larivée says. 'Given the parsimonious management of Mother Theresa's works, one may ask where the millions of dollars for the poorest of the poor have gone?'"

3. She was deliberately promoted by BBC journalist Malcolm Muggeridge (a fellow anti-abortionist), and her beatification was based on phony miracles.." . .In 1969, [Muggeridge] made a eulogistic film of the missionary, promoting her by attributing to her the "first photographic miracle," when it should have been attributed to the new film stock being marketed by Kodak. Afterwards, Mother Teresa traveled throughout the world and received numerous awards, including the Nobel Peace Prize. In her acceptance speech, on the subject of Bosnian women who were raped by Serbs and now sought abortion, she said: 'I feel the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, because it is a direct war, a direct killing - direct murder by the mother herself.'

Following her death, the Vatican decided to waive the usual five-year waiting period to open the beatification process. The miracle attributed to Mother Theresa was the healing of a woman, Monica Besra, who had been suffering from intense abdominal pain. The woman testified that she was cured after a medallion blessed by Mother Theresa was placed on her abdomen. Her doctors thought otherwise: the ovarian cyst and the tuberculosis from which she suffered were healed by the drugs they had given her. The Vatican, nevertheless, concluded that it was a miracle. Mother Teresa's popularity was such that she had become untouchable for the population, which had already declared her a saint. "What could be better than beatification followed by canonization of this model to revitalize the Church and inspire the faithful especially at a time when churches are empty and the Roman authority is in decline?" Larivée and his colleagues ask."All of these echo, substantiate, and expand the criticisms leveled by Hitchens.

Thanks to Soft.net
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
So it seems there is a battle I repeatedly see over Mother Teresa. Hitchens I don't trust cuz I saw him in a debate with a pastor where he made multiple bitter hateful remarks, glorified atheism, and the only thing he had to say about Mother Teresa was " the Albanian Troll" and the "old *****"

To call a woman that who loves those who were unloved and taught others to do so and dedicated her life to easing other peoples suffering destroys his credibility IMO.

*snipped for brevity*

What do you think?

I think you're a bit hasty in dismissing Hitchens. Especially since he challenges the notion that she helped to ease anyone's suffering. He made a video on this subject in which he makes the case against Mother Theresa quite clearly.

Take a look.

 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
She was propped up by an anti-Hindu government and pseudo-secularists in India (because the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty knew that rise of Hinduism will destroy them. That is what is happening now). The Catholic Church accepted that gleefully.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I don't know a single religious figure east or west that is not despised by many. It's a sign of the times. I haven't studied the details of every Mother Theresa issue but my general opinion is that she was a great Catholic soul and Saint (despite those that despise Catholicism, belief in souls and saints).
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
:) I agree, Teresa was none other than Brahman, but under great ignorance, illusion. Now she is one with Brahman. "Brahmaleen", as the Hindus say.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Did the world benefit from Mother Teresa? No, definitely not. She attracted thousands to her missions who might have survived if they had gone looking for actual help from trained medical professionals.

Now that I think on it, Mother Teresa is the epitome of everything wrong with something you said in another thread, @PopeADope ; that it's healthy to "view suffering as positively as we can".

Mother Teresa did this and look what happened - she was cruel in her indifference; and her attitude is an example of what happens when you are taught to view suffering as positively as possible: you end up glorifying suffering.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
The Hindus were not caring for the bottom of the cast system. Were it not for mother Teresa they would have died in the gutter without dignity, people to dress their wounds or love. Without her many would have not been Fed or given shelter.

So she lessened their suffering. Mother Teresa went into the ghettos to care for people no one else cared about.

I don't believe a lot of accusations because when she first went to the ghetto she tried to bring people to the hospital and the hospital rejected them.
She cared for all and any of those dying whom the hospitals refused.


From people who have been to her hospices I've heard the testimony many times that they did not need to ask Mother Teresa why she had not set up a hospital instead, because they knew that a hospital would tie down all her Sisters to a single establishment, and then who would care for those who fell by the wayside?

The infant abandoned on a street, the sick and elderly turned out of their homes, often enough by their own families, the leprosy sufferers or AIDS patients that no one wanted to even go near who would look after them?

Perhaps the fact that mother T was caring for people REJECTED by hospitals turned her away from a hospital vocation. That wasn't her mission or the charism of her order.
 
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Spiderman

Veteran Member
Mother Teresa did not say look at them suffering, that is great. She said look at them suffering. please give them home, please give them food , please give them clothing.

Give them a smile, give them a hug , console them
 

Baladas

An Págánach
It seems to me that even if she couldn't have done more to see to those peoples' health, that the Catholic Church could have quite easily.
Could she not have appealed to the Church for aid? Should she have needed to, with the considerable funds she received from fundraising and donations? Why not open medical clinics? Would the government of India not allow it?
I somehow doubt this.

As someone who is in literal constant pain, I can understand the idea of attempting to be as positive as possible about pain or suffering.
However, I don't think that I shouldn't be allowed to manage my pain. If I took that view, I would be in bed all day, most every day.

There is a certain degree of mercy in taking people in, off of the streets. However, withholding treatments that seem to have been easily within her reach does not paint a pretty picture.

It seems to me that the world likely did benefit from her to some degree, but not nearly as much as it really could have if she had fought for the well-being of her charges.

Certainly not enough to raise her up as a paragon or a saint.
She seemed content to leave the poor to their fates.
 
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Spiderman

Veteran Member
I agree actually, I think she made many mistakes and could have done better and done a greater service to the world if she had her sisters and brothers train to be doctors and surgeons and brought in branches of more educated people and social workers and insurance companies as well.

I think if she had built hospitals and specialists in modern medicine to prevent more deaths, that would have been a good thing.

However, I don't think she didn't want people to receive medical care, because she tried to bring people to hospitals that rejected them.

If the hospitals there would have taken in all the poor people she was working with , she would have been delighted.

Here in America Mother Teresa has set up missions that care for the sick , and she would not forbid any of them from going to a hospital and getting the care they need that her sisters aren't offering, it's just that is not the particular charism of her order , it doesn't mean that she looked negatively on those who do have the charism of modern medicine, surgery, or who are called to be Hospital staff.

Mother Teresa never wanted her order to be a bunch of social workers or medical personnel , but that doesn't mean she thought social workers or medical personnel were not good and important instruments of God's grace or that people shouldn't go to them, it just wasn't the charism or the mission of the order that she founded.

St. Francis of Assisi cared for lepers and loved the poor and motivated other people to do so , but it wasn't the charism of his order to heal them or provide whatever Medical Technology was available at that time.

It doesn't mean he didn't want them to be cured or that he didn't want them to get medical attention , it just was not the charism of The Franciscan order to provide those things.

If you lived in that time and you were more skilled in medicine, just don't join The Franciscan order. It isn't a good fit, neither is it your calling.

The church has many different branches of religious orders that provide different Services, because there are people who specialize in different areas, and the church sets up more hospitals than any other institution, but that wasn't the vocation of Mother Teresa.

Guaranteed if Mother Teresa had members of her order that were more inclined to be doctors or people who provide better medical care she would encourage them to go into that field.

The Church has branches of people that provide medical care and the Church builds many hospitals. Just because Mother Teresa didn't practice that Charism doesn't mean she was oppossed to it.
 

Wirey

Fartist
Again, a thief.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mother_Teresa

From the article:

She accepted money from the British publisher Robert Maxwell, who, as was later revealed, embezzled UK£450 million from his employees' pension funds. There is no suggestion that she was aware of any theft before accepting the donation in either case. Criticism does focus on Teresa's plea for leniency in the Charles Keating case, where Keating was charged with fraud following high profile business failures. Keating donated millions of dollars to Mother Teresa and lent her his private jet when she visited the United States. She refused to return the money, and praised Keating repeatedly.[7] There has been a lack of media investigation of her relationships to these individuals

The money she refused to return to the people wiped out by Keating was stolen money. Those people lost their homes, their life savings, and this horrendous twit praised Keating so she could keep the cash. A dirty, reprehensible thief who's death improved the planet.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Regarding suffering,

Many Catholics believe their suffering is an offering to Jesus and unites them to him, and in Union with his suffering and cross, it is atoning for sins and a powerful offering (like fasting) that makes their soul more strong and pure and prayers more powerful.

They believe that as it was in the Old Testament, the sins of the people were transferred to the lamb and that there are souls who are victims Souls like the lamb who suffer for sin.

The Catholic church has always viewed martyrdom as a good thing, and that everybody is assigned a cross and that God wills that we all suffer and die, but after our Lord suffered and died, it led to a glorious resurrection , and that our suffering and death will lead to a glorious resurrection and eternity of joy and Bliss.

Paul said He glories in his infirmities and takes pleasure in weakness, persecution, and trials and said count it a joy when you receive trials and persecution. The Bible says blessed are you when you have to suffer.

So, it could be that the Bible and the church are wrong in saying this and have misled people. If so, that is a shame!

It could be true and it certainly would help me a lot to know that my suffering is accomplishing something, but I do not know for certain if that is true.

If Mother Teresa was wrong about suffering, then she made a big mistake, and it was wrong for her to teach falsehood!! If God enlightens me or takes me to Heaven, I shall know if she was right or if she was wrong.


As of now, I have leanings, suspicions, insight, and Inspirations, but I do not say with certainty that they are true.a
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Regarding Keating, there may have been other qualities she admired in him , and we don't know the whole story.

Mother Teresa is not a thief if she did not know at the time that she was receiving money that was stolen.

I do not believe that she knew he was a crook when he was donating the money.

If all of what you say is true, do I believe Mother Teresa should have paid people who were victimized by this man if she had the resources to do so? Yes , I do believe so.

However, she was a very old busy lady at this time, and she died a few years after they found out about this guy.

Also, she wrote letters requesting leniency, but she also believes what our lord said about forgiving people Seventy Times seven times and loving your enemies too.

so this is a woman who radically follows the Gospels and radically follows a man who told people to love their enemies and preached radical forgiveness. A man who was being tortured and executed by people while asking the father to forgive them, so it shouldn't surprise us at all that she is requesting leniency for somebody she wants counted a close friend who had a fall from a state of grace.

Her request for leniency for this man does not mean she was not disgusted by what he did.

Once again, I don't know the whole story, but Mother Teresa certainly made mistakes. Let's not forget that Peter denied Christ three times.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
She's a saint in my book, but not perfect. A former priest and friend of mine who worked with her for three months during one summer has nothing but praise for her, especially considering the overwhelming conditions she and her charge had to work under.
 
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