Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) in the Eyes of Non-Muslims

[England my lionheart]

That's easy. The authentic Hadiths are the ones which support the image of Islam that Muslims want the West to see.

It's called a Presuppostional Defense of Islam.

1. A Muslim presuppositionalist assumes that all of the sayings and actions of Muhammad must be good.
2. Thus, any unfavorable historical record about Muhammad is automatically rejected as a false report, because the initial assumptions do not allow for any negative historical evidence.

Try telling them that

 

[England my lionheart]

Anther thing i find odd is the subject of Dogs,i've had a Dogs all my life which i think are fantastic Family members,loyal brave and affectionate.
What i find strange and i noticed it in Iran,people are no longer allowed to walk their Dogs and Dogs are not allowed inside because the Angels will not enter the House,i find this very strange.
Another thing about Iran is when Khonemi came to power the crowds literally pulled some Dogs to pieces for some insane reason.

 

[Breathe]

Another thing about Iran is when Khonemi came to power the crowds literally pulled some Dogs to pieces for some insane reason.

That is disgusting. :faint:
However, this I must say, would not be permitted within Islam - since animals are supposed to be treated with respect. It's just a shame so many Muslims are ignorant of their religion.

As a fellow dog lover, I can't understand where this belief of "dogs stopping angels" comes from. Unless dogs are more powerful than God's creations, the mind just boggles at it. :areyoucra Even if I ended up a Muslim, I wouldn't keep a dog outside (not wiith this weather!). There are a few Muslims who keep dogs nowadays and are challenging the authenticity of this Hadith. A friend of mine in Egypt has a dog, and his dog doesn't stay outside, yet he is a devout Muslim.

I do think a problem for me with Islam is it seems to cross over the "way of life" so often said by Christians and becomes "THE way of life" - what you can keep in your house, how you should go to the toilet, with which hand you should eat (I eat with my left hand. The sheikh at my local mosque said that only Iblis and those in line with him do (Whee, I'm dining with Satan! ). Do you think it seems to go too far in its control?

 

[Alla Prima]

Try telling them that

There is no telling Muslims anything. They are lost to Muhammadanism. Only Muslim Apostates and non Muslims who haven't fallen to PC think and Dhimmitude understand. Only listen to the Apostates and those who are not intimidated by Islam. They won't deceive you. Muslims will always deceive you in their quest to promote Islam. For that, deception is acceptable. Now we must educate all non Muslims as to the true nature of Islam. The Apostates are helping us.

 

[Alla Prima]

As a fellow dog lover, I can't understand where this belief of "dogs stopping angels" comes from.

From the narcissistic and delusional mind of Muhammad.

Below are a number of Hadith on various aspects involving dogs. All Hadith are from the Sahih collections of Bukhari[1] and Muslim[2], or the Sunan of Abu Dawud[3]. After the Quran, Bukhari's set of Hadith are regarded to be the second most important books in Islam, followed closely by the Hadith of Muslim. I quote from these sources to prove that these Hadith are not just a few isolated or unsupported cases. I have sorted Muhammad's statements concerning dogs into 5 categories. All of these illustrate different facets of his beliefs regarding dogs.



1) KILL THE DOGS

From Bukhari Vol. 4, #540

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle ordered that the dogs should be killed.

From Abu Dawud #2839

Abd Allah B. Mughaffal reported the apostle of Allah as saying: Were dogs not a species of creature I should command that they all be killed; but kill every pure black one.

The Hadith's note for #2839 says, "The prophet did not order the killing of all the dogs, for some are to be retained for hunting and watching. He ordered to kill the jet black ones. They might be more mischievous among them.

From Muslim #3814

Ibn Mughaffal reported: Allah's messenger ordered the killing of dogs and then said, "what is the trouble with them (the people of Medina? How dogs are nuisances to them (the citizens of Medina)? He then permitted keeping of dogs for hunting and (the protection of) herds. ...[and for] for the protection of cultivated land.

From Muslim #Number 055

Ibn Mughaffal reported: The Messenger of Allah ordered killing of the dogs, and then said: What about them, i. e. about other dogs? and then granted concession (to keep) the dog for hunting and the dog for (the security) of the herd, and said: When the dog licks the utensil, wash it seven times, and rub it with earth the eighth time.

From Muslim #3813

Abu Zubair heard Jabir Abdullah saying: Allah's messenger ordered us to kill dogs and we carried out this order so much so that we also killed the dog roaming with a women from the desert. Then Allah's apostle forbade their killing. He said: "It is your duty to kill the jet-black (dog) having two spots (on the eyes) for it is a devil.

The note for #3814 says,

"The Hadith gives us an idea why the prophet commanded to kill dogs. There must have been an excess of stray dogs and thus the danger of rabies in the city of Medina and its suburbs. The prophet therefore ordered to kill them. Later on when it was found that his Companions were killing them indiscriminately, he forbade them to do so and told them that only the ferocious beasts which were a source of danger to life should be killed. The word "Devil" in the Hadith clarifies this point. Here devil stands for ferocious.

HOWEVER THE REASONING WITHIN THE NOTE ABOVE IS INCORRECT – READ BELOW.

From Muslim #5248

Maimuna reported that one morning Allah’s Messenger was silent with grief. Maimuna said: Allah’s Messenger, I find a change in your mood today. Allah’s Messenger said: Gabriel had promised me that he would meet me tonight, but he did not meet me. By Allah, he never broke his promises, and Allah’s Messenger spent the day in this sad mood. Then it occurred to him that there had been a puppy under their cot. He commanded and it was turned out. He then took some water in his hand and sprinkled it at that place. When it was evening Gabriel met him and he said to him: You promised me that you would meet me the previous night. He said: Yes, but we do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture. Then on that very morning he commanded the killing of the dogs until he announced that the dog kept for the orchards should also be killed, but he spared the dog meant for the protection of extensive fields or big gardens.



COMMENT

These Hadith tell the story of Muhammad's order to kill dogs. Muhammad said he would like to have all dogs killed. He wanted them killed, NOT because packs of dogs were tormenting the citizens of Medina, but rather, because a puppy stopped the mighty angel Gabriel. Muhammad’s solution was to kill the dogs. He first said he wanted all dogs killed but then made exceptions for dogs that are used for farming, hunting, or watching (outside). Further, he ordered that all black dogs be killed and called them "a Satan".

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/dogs.htm

 

[England my lionheart]

That is disgusting. :faint:
However, this I must say, would not be permitted within Islam - since animals are supposed to be treated with respect. It's just a shame so many Muslims are ignorant of their religion.

As a fellow dog lover, I can't understand where this belief of "dogs stopping angels" comes from. Unless dogs are more powerful than God's creations, the mind just boggles at it. :areyoucra Even if I ended up a Muslim, I wouldn't keep a dog outside (not wiith this weather!). There are a few Muslims who keep dogs nowadays and are challenging the authenticity of this Hadith. A friend of mine in Egypt has a dog, and his dog doesn't stay outside, yet he is a devout Muslim.

I do think a problem for me with Islam is it seems to cross over the "way of life" so often said by Christians and becomes "THE way of life" - what you can keep in your house, how you should go to the toilet, with which hand you should eat (I eat with my left hand. The sheikh at my local mosque said that only Iblis and those in line with him do (Whee, I'm dining with Satan! ). Do you think it seems to go too far in its control?

Yes it appears to be a way of life,it seems to me that you could debate with any Muslim but it will seem like the same one.

 

[England my lionheart]

From the narcissistic and delusional mind of Muhammad.

I have'nt seen these Hadiths,how do people believe in this,but they will say this is a false Hadith.

 

[Alla Prima]

I have'nt seen these Hadiths,how do people believe in this,but they will say this is a false Hadith.

The Sahih Bukhari and the Sahih Muslim hadith are the two most revered Hadiths. They are the most important writings other than the Koran itself.
CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts
CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

The duty of any Muslim is to promote the best side of Islam as is possible (you will never hear a Muslim criticizing Muhammad or Islam for that would be blasphemous). This means denying any negative aspects of Islam or lying by omission Kitman. It is also acceptable for Muslims to lie Taqiyya if it benefits the Islamic cause.

 

[Sunstone]

There is no telling Muslims anything. They are lost to Muhammadanism. Only Muslim Apostates and non Muslims who haven't fallen to PC think and Dhimmitude understand. Only listen to the Apostates and those who are not intimidated by Islam. They won't deceive you. Muslims will always deceive you in their quest to promote Islam. For that, deception is acceptable. Now we must educate all non Muslims as to the true nature of Islam. The Apostates are helping us.

How is it you know "Muslims will always deceive you"? It is that comment of yours not likely to be deceptive?

 

[Alla Prima]

How is it you know "Muslims will always deceive you"? It is that comment of yours not likely to be deceptive?

Because I've never heard a Muslim criticize Islam. Only defend Islam.

 

[BLang]

I have a question or two! I heard once that the Koran{sp?} only uses the word love 5 times and all for our love of obiedence to Allah and not allah's love of us. Is that true?
I also heard that Allah doesn't love us as a father does children. Does Allah look at us as children he loves and should we look at him as a father?

 

[Breathe]

Hello to you, too! Welcome to the forum.

No - Allah should not be looked at as a father in Islam. The reason why is, Allah does not have children, nor parents, and He is unique, the only God, and eternal, unchanging - Muslims will give the same answer, I guess.

Does this mean Allah doesn't love us? Well, you would have to define "love" - I am not in the position to answer it though; I am not a Muslim. Some Sufis may believe so, but I'm not sure about Sunni and Shi'a madhhabs.

 

[England my lionheart]

I have a question or two! I heard once that the Koran{sp?} only uses the word love 5 times and all for our love of obiedence to Allah and not allah's love of us. Is that true?
I also heard that Allah doesn't love us as a father does children. Does Allah look at us as children he loves and should we look at him as a father?

Welcome to the forum

 

[Alla Prima]

I have a question or two! I heard once that the Koran{sp?} only uses the word love 5 times and all for our love of obiedence to Allah and not allah's love of us. Is that true?
I also heard that Allah doesn't love us as a father does children. Does Allah look at us as children he loves and should we look at him as a father?

Certainly not if you're a unbeliever.

008.055
Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe

 

[Supergate]

"And the most depraved are those who believe wrong than those who believe nothing at all." -The Book of Origin