Muhammad The Greatest: A comparative study

[England my lionheart]

Response: If that's how you feel then you're entitled to your opinion but rules of a nation do not depend solely on the feelings of England my lionheart.

They are not just rules of a nation,they are rules of a religion,we are lucky because we live in secular countries but its a horror for those in Islamic states.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

they are not just rules of a nation,they are rules of a religion,we are lucky because we live in secular countries but its a horror for those in islamic states.

آمين

........

 

[England my lionheart]

........

Tried to copy and paste it into a translator,what does it mean?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Tried to copy and paste it into a translator,what does it mean?

Amen.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

To Kai: I don't claim that islamic conquest of india was not bloody. I do claim that the spread of Islam in India was through Sufi's message of love. That's why there are so many Muslims in India. Conquest didn't convert people, Sufis did. (in fact until a king called Akbar came along, the ruling elite in India was extremely disconnected from the common people, and that's the main reason why muslim rulers up to that point had never acquired stability in their rules).....
In fact according to wikipedia (see tariqah) a sizeable population in central Asia, Southern Russia and Indonesia becam Muslim solely due to the missionary work of Sufi tarqas.

The Sufi’s are a religion of love. They are a minority of muslims in India and many Sufi’s in central Asia are converting to orthodox schools of Islam. Fundamentalism is becoming more prevalent through out all religious traditions today. I do believe that in some ways the mix of Islam and Hinduism has an up side, there are many sages in India that are looked up to by both Hindu and Muslim Sufi. Kabir and The original Sai Baba are just two examples of open hearts of Sufi’s and Hindu’s.

I do not doubt there were many converts to Islam because of it’s practical beauty, but there were many forced conversions all through out the muslim Rule of India. Akbar was a great King who even bowed to Hindu sages but his grand son Aurangzeb was a tyrant. Who ordered the destruction of maybe 1000s of Hindu temples the exact number has be lost in the sands of time. Aurangzeb's ultimate aim was conversion of all non-Muslims to Islam. Indian history is full of accounts where the Emperor Aurangzeb used torture or death to force conversion on Hindu’s.

This kind of a thing never happened in Spain, and the result is clear.

The reason this type of thing never happened in Spain or the rest of the western reaches of Islam. Christian’s and Jew’s were seen as monotheists so they were treated fair. They are called people of the book. Hindus are seen by many Muslims as polytheists who need to be converted. Remember that all the Buddhist and Hindu Universities were burnt to the ground. Today there are almost no Buddhists in south asia because they were all killed or converted.

 

[Gharib]

I ask you this,if the decadent West is so bad why are so many people ,including many Muslims queing to come here and like you stay.
I wonder how many people emigrate from Western Democracies to Iran,Saudi,Pakistan etc,i would hazard a guess of 0

very easy to answer this;

in many hadiths the prophet says that the muslims will be spread all over the world untill their leader will be born to unite them.

 

[Gharib]

The proof is in my open mind. I am able to see good and bad everywhere - I do not believe the West is perfect - And I do not believe that Islam is without merits.

so for the first time we actualy agree on something.

Not Correct. My conclusions come from reading the Koran and Hadith. There is good with the bad - that is the problem. As with the OT - the message is not clear. That is why a good number of your Brothers and Sisters choose a life of terror.

a lot of the hadith have been tempered with, and the reason for that is to keep people such as your self away from islam, those hadiths do not affect me in any way, but they affect the good people who seek the truth and knowledge.

You are judging me now - no pointers are needed.

oh, so thats how it works. ok thanks

The best way to truly know how the Earth looks from Outer space is to view photos of actual pictures of it. Words can never do it justice.

thats not what i meant. you said to have a free mind of thought and do not take in what others tell you (ie me saying what Muhammed (saws) would have said or what the scholars are saying). that also means that you should not take in what scientists say, and if you did this then just how would you know what earth looks like from outer space? forget about the pictures, they are from the scientists.

I had one as a child. A loving pet. What is your point ? Do you hate dogs?

no i don't hate dogs, never said that. i love dogs. whats there to hate.

Is not the Quran the words of Allah?

yes it is, but i have not surrendered my self to the 'words' of Allah, but to Allah himself.

I already knew - I wanted others to know that may not have.

ok now they know.

You are happy that you do not think for yourself

- this is terrifying on many levels.

well no offence to anyone but free thinking gets you in trouble. look at Fritzl from Austria, he was a free thinker, he though for himself and all of you are free thinkers too. if there is no one to tell you this is wrong that is right, things happen.

actually none of you think more than me. you all live in a society where you have to abide to, so all of you are actually conforming to society by following those laws, meaning none of you can think for your selves any more than me. the world goes round and round

so in my case there is nothing to be terrified about. and on how many levels is this terrifying, now that you mentioned it please tell me.

And you are happy that you do not have to pick up after a dog because of this.

pick up after a dog? please listen to your self. do you know how uncivilised that is in the 21'st century. dogs are dogs, always were always will be.

you keep bringing up dogs.....

yes. i do that quite a lot.

I understand that Islam considers them unclean...

second most filthies animal after a pig.

and that Mohammed even said that black dogs should be killed (dumb)

many scholars beleive that when the devil takes a earthly form (ie of an animal) he only turns into a black colour and no other colour. so yes in the islamic world a creature that is ALL BLACK with no other colour is a devil and scholars say that it needs to be killed, linking back to the prophets hadith.

- are you saying that Islam 'Hates' all dogs.

none of my statements even come close to what you are saying. no we do not hate dogs. we just do not let them sleep in our bedrooms. dogs are for protecion thats why god gave them such a loud mouth. a dog isn't a cat. get it?

Talking about the West - In the West we Love Dogs

yes pretty soon men will abondon their wifes to be with their *****es (female dog). no offence to anyone

- They are our companions and friends and we do not take kindly to our friends being murdered.

wouldn't you rather have a human friend and companion to who you can actually talk to and not worry about picking up after them? why turn to a dog, thats what i don't get.

as for the killing part, have you spoken to any chineese lately, they make a great stue.

As a point of reference - if Muslims move to Western societies they will have to bend to our rules of logic - not the other way around.

funny you mentioned this last bit, isn't that already happening. i mean the other way around.

isn't your country the land of the free? so what happened to the freedom? oh i forgot muslims have no freedom because we do not kiss dogs.
oh well back to the plane everybody.
and what "rules of logic" might they actually be, i'll just list some;

pick up after a dog,
take a cat for a walk,
tell a bird not to fly over other peoples properties,
become a slave to animals,

the list goes on, and do these actually seem logic to YOU, please tell me.

 

[England my lionheart]

very easy to answer this;

in many hadiths the prophet says that the muslims will be spread all over the world untill their leader will be born to unite them.

I think its something else entirely,i think its because Islamic states are totalitarian dictatorships and they can't wait to get away from them,not only Islamic states but even countries where the main religion is Islam,Egypt is a good example.

 

[England my lionheart]

In my country we have rights of free speech which i am exercising,i can for example criticise the Pope for his stupid comments on Condoms or Gordon Brown for the useless Labour party,thats my right.
Would Islam "be as big" as you put it if it was horrible,well because somethings horrible it does'nt mean it cannot have a big following but i would refer you back to inherited religion and immigration.
I do not have a problem with peoples beliefs as long as it does'nt harm others and although many Muslims will tell me that stoning is a cultral practice and nothing to do with Islam,well i have some straight forward questions for you.
Did Muhammed have people stoned?
Are there references which can be seen in the Hadith where he has somebody stoned?
Do Muslims try to emulate Muhammed through the Sunna and Hadith?

I am posting this again as i have'nt had an answer

 

[Gharib]

I am posting this again as i have'nt had an answer

you already did get one. from me.

 

[Gharib]

I think its something else entirely,i think its because Islamic states are totalitarian dictatorships and they can't wait to get away from them,not only Islamic states but even countries where the main religion is Islam,Egypt is a good example.

then how come we are muslims. if someone moved to a western country simply because they cannot stand the laws of Allah then islam isn't the answer for those people. i really doubt that any muslim has left their country to live in a western one simply because of the islamic laws, i didn't move to a western country because i didn't like the laws. there were other reasons and by comming here i've actually learned way more tham i possibly could imagine doing so in my own country, although it isn't an sislamic one.

and if so then why are non muslims moving to other countries. in England, you've got australians, americans, chinese, japanese, etc... whats their reason, i don't suppose they are muslims too.

 

[England my lionheart]

you already did get one. from me.

But you only answered one of the three questions,the point i am making is a very simple one,because of the Sunna and Hadith and Muslims trying to emulate Muhammed by doing everything he did from ablutions to stoning some unfortunate Human being to death and that is a huge problem.
If Muhammed never invaded another country or had anyone stoned to death or killed for being an Apostate there would'nt be Muslims practicing these things now.
The problem is Islam is stuck 1400 years ago and has'nt progressed in thought or act since then.

 

[England my lionheart]

then how come we are muslims. if someone moved to a western country simply because they cannot stand the laws of Allah then islam isn't the answer for those people. i really doubt that any muslim has left their country to live in a western one simply because of the islamic laws, i didn't move to a western country because i didn't like the laws. there were other reasons and by comming here i've actually learned way more tham i possibly could imagine doing so in my own country, although it isn't an sislamic one.

and if so then why are non muslims moving to other countries. in England, you've got australians, americans, chinese, japanese, etc... whats their reason, i don't suppose they are muslims too.

Would you rather be a Muslim in Iran or a Muslim in the UK,in the UK you have guaranteed rights in Iran you have Totalitarialism

 

[Gharib]

Would you rather be a Muslim in Iran or a Muslim in the UK,in the UK you have guaranteed rights in Iran you have Totalitarialsm

i'd choose iran any day. i would go there right now if i could. there is no dictatorship in iran, it is the best islamic country to date i recon. compared to todays countries though.

 

[England my lionheart]

i'd choose iran any day. i would go there right now if i could. there is no dictatorship in iran, it is the best islamic country to date i recon. compared to todays countries though.

Honestly,you would rather go to a country that commits crimes against Humanity on a daily basis,in my country we use mobile cranes for the construction industry,in Iran they are used to hang people by the roadside.
In Iran they recently boasted they have hung the last Homosexuals in Iran,in Iran they have recently tortured a Kurdish cleric to death,Iran is governed by a bunch of Ayatollahs who call themselves experts,experts who have vowed to push Israel into the Sea and recently called for Jihad fighters to go to Palestine.
Iran are associated to these


are you telling me you really want to be a part of this

 

[Judgment]

eselam: a lot of the hadith have been tempered with, and the reason for that is to keep people such as your self away from islam, those hadiths do not affect me in any way, but they affect the good people who seek the truth and knowledge.

They have been tampered with to keep me away from Islam ? Well then I praise that tampering - I want nothing to do with a God that calls me a vile beast and that says he does not Love me.

eselam: thats not what i meant. you said to have a free mind of thought and do not take in what others tell you (ie me saying what Muhammed (saws) would have said or what the scholars are saying). that also means that you should not take in what scientists say, and if you did this then just how would you know what earth looks like from outer space? forget about the pictures, they are from the scientists.

I knew what you were trying to say. I never said that I do not take in what others tell me - That would be an example of a closed mind.

eselam: well no offence to anyone but free thinking gets you in trouble. look at Fritzl from Austria, he was a free thinker, he though for himself and all of you are free thinkers too. if there is no one to tell you this is wrong that is right, things happen.

actually none of you think more than me. you all live in a society where you have to abide to, so all of you are actually conforming to society by following those laws, meaning none of you can think for your selves any more than me. the world goes round and round

so in my case there is nothing to be terrified about. and on how many levels is this terrifying, now that you mentioned it please tell me.

You are a slave to Allah's words (Allah) - you are unable to question one word of the Quran. That means you are unable to think for yourself.. unable to have an original thought or idea. This is the death of reasoning - the death of common sense.

eselam: pick up after a dog? please listen to your self. do you know how uncivilised that is in the 21'st century. dogs are dogs, always were always will be.

But.. you consider 100 lashes for having sex outside of marriage to be civilized ?

eselam: many scholars beleive that when the devil takes a earthly form (ie of an animal) he only turns into a black colour and no other colour. so yes in the islamic world a creature that is ALL BLACK with no other colour is a devil and scholars say that it needs to be killed, linking back to the prophets hadith.

Clear Insanity. Please go on speaking - maybe some of the PC correctness that engulfs our world today will finally begin to fade away...

eselam: yes pretty soon men will abondon their wifes to be with their *****es (female dog). no offence to anyone

Disgusting - You are vile.

eselam: funny you mentioned this last bit, isn't that already happening. i mean the other way around.

isn't your country the land of the free? so what happened to the freedom? oh i forgot muslims have no freedom because we do not kiss dogs.
oh well back to the plane everybody.
and what "rules of logic" might they actually be, i'll just list some;

pick up after a dog,
take a cat for a walk,
tell a bird not to fly over other peoples properties,
become a slave to animals,

the list goes on, and do these actually seem logic to YOU, please tell me.

I think you are truly a dangerous individual - your thoughts have been corrupted. If the majority of Muslims have your mindset - then - Islam is something that should be fought against - and should not be allowed to take hold in Western lands. I know there are some Muslims here on this site that do not have your mindset - but - they are the minority.

 

[Fatihah]

The media doesn't report positive things, generally. A man could go years working at homeless mothers and giving 20% of his income to help starving children in Africa and never make the news a single time. If after all those years, the same man goes out and kills a police officer, that man will be in the news for weeks following the murder.

Response: That's not true at all. If a killer is on the news, their background is always pointed out. Surely what got him on the news is killing but his good deeds would not have been dismissed. In the case of islam, this is not the case
at all.


This doesn't just apply to Islam. How many positive stories do you hear about the Catholic church? Most of the stories I see are about the pope saying stupid things, or priests abusing children. I grew up in a highly Catholic area, and I can tell you with great certainty that most Catholics are decent people. Would you view this is an attack on Catholicism?

Response: But the catholic church is praised highly in the world and so is the pope despite the his remarks.

When the pope does something, the pope is held accountable, not the catholics or the catholic religion. Yet if a muslim does something, all of islam and the muslims is to blame. That's the difference. The media will literally open up islamic scriptures and quote the texts that they claim support acts of violence in the news. The catholic bible is never disected in the media despite the gruesome stories it has in it's text.

In any case, the good actions of Muslims don't make up for the bad actions of Muhammed, just as the good actions of Catholics don't make up for the stupid things the pope says, or the abuse of children by priests. And even if there were some conspiracy to attack Islam, that wouldn't mean that Muhammed was innocent.

Response: True. That doesn't make Muhammad innocent. What makes him innocent is the actual fact that he's innocent.

 

[England my lionheart]

very easy to answer this;

in many hadiths the prophet says that the muslims will be spread all over the world untill their leader will be born to unite them.

This is nonesense,if it was to spread Islam then the Muslims here would integrate into our society which they certainly do not preffering to live in predominately Muslim neighbourhoods,so how they expect to spread Islam is hard to see.

 

[Imagist]

In any case, the good actions of Muslims don't make up for the bad actions of Muhammed, just as the good actions of Catholics don't make up for the stupid things the pope says, or the abuse of children by priests. And even if there were some conspiracy to attack Islam, that wouldn't mean that Muhammed was innocent.

Response: True. That doesn't make Muhammad innocent. What makes him innocent is the actual fact that he's innocent.

Please present evidence for this claim.

 

[Fatihah]

Please present evidence for this claim.

Response: "In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful". (Opening of every chapter except chapter 9)